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Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:54 pm
by Finster
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:53 pm
Finster wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:51 pm
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:45 pm
Liam E for the Tewy
In hindsight this probably is right. But it can’t be done.
I think Shellenberger gets it over O’Neill and Kirst. But I won’t be surprised by any of those three.
Entenmann has one more season of eligibility, correct?
DocBarrister
I don’t know for sure but I believe someone here wrote something to that effect this week.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:59 pm
by 10stone5
Yes - he’s got another year should he decide to use it
which seems obvious.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:22 pm
by head73
Freshman Thomas Ricciardelli is waiting in the wings. 2022 #4 recruit and top goalie FWIW (per IL).
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 6:59 pm
by saltydogs
Liam entaman.they should give it to a goalie ......he played great
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 7:05 pm
by laxfan1313
Finster wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:42 pm
laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:37 pm
I think CJ Kirst remains in the mix for the Tewaaraton Award. Duke lost to Notre Dame & O'Neill was held to 2 points (1-1). CJ has the Turnbull Award and led Division 1 in goals/game and points/game. Cornell played 5 playoff teams. O'Neill is not a sure thing for this award.
After today I have no idea who wins. This is the closest Tewaaraton race in forever. I think Shellenberger wins because even though UVA lost to ND, he still performed and the loss was OT.
It was O’Neill’s for the taking, but 1-9 on championship game day is not a good look.
Maybe Kirst. I think Shellenberger gets it in the end.
Shellenberger & Kirst are both 1st Team AA but Kirst received the Turnbull. This is an individual award so the fact that Shellenberger played for a better team shouldn't matter. The only exception, in my opinion, would be if a candidate's team won the NC. That favors Kavanaugh but his stats aren't good enough in my opinion. It's between O'Neill & Kirst. Either one would be an acceptable choice.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 7:11 pm
by wgdsr
could be anyone, really. maybe dordevic is out?
kavanaugh with the probable advantage imo given everything.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:06 pm
by jrn19
O'Neill was the favorite going into the tournament considering he had the best season and considering he got to the final and while Kavanagh won it but was banged up the last 3 games and didn't put up big numbers, my guess is he will win it. He was the best player of that group I'd say.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
by HopFan16
O'Neill's numbers are better than Kavanagh's, and he had a better tournament than Kavanagh. I have a hard time seeing how it doesn't go to O'Neill.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 7:58 am
by lorin
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
O'Neill's numbers are better than Kavanagh's, and he had a better tournament than Kavanagh. I have a hard time seeing how it doesn't go to O'Neill.
Just FYI for ESPN announcers, O'Neil is good please don't get me wrong but so are other kids.
DAlto 46 games 206 points 4.47 PPG
Brandau 55 games 259 points 4.8 PPG
Shellenberg 50 games 239 points 4.78 PPG
Kavanagh 45 games 221 points 4.91 PPG
O'Neil 53 games 226 points 4.26 PPG
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:00 am
by drunkmonkey30
lorin wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:58 am
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
O'Neill's numbers are better than Kavanagh's, and he had a better tournament than Kavanagh. I have a hard time seeing how it doesn't go to O'Neill.
Just FYI for ESPN announcers, O'Neil is good please don't get me wrong but so are other kids.
DAlto 46 games 206 points 4.47 PPG
Brandau 55 games 259 points 4.8 PPG
Shellenberg 50 games 239 points 4.78 PPG
Kavanagh 45 games 221 points 4.91 PPG
O'Neil 53 games 226 points 4.26 PPG
I could be wrong, but I don't think the Tewaarton is a career award.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:14 am
by lorin
drunkmonkey30 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:00 am
lorin wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 7:58 am
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:43 pm
O'Neill's numbers are better than Kavanagh's, and he had a better tournament than Kavanagh. I have a hard time seeing how it doesn't go to O'Neill.
Just FYI for ESPN announcers, O'Neil is good please don't get me wrong but so are other kids.
DAlto 46 games 206 points 4.47 PPG
Brandau 55 games 259 points 4.8 PPG
Shellenberg 50 games 239 points 4.78 PPG
Kavanagh 45 games 221 points 4.91 PPG
O'Neil 53 games 226 points 4.26 PPG
I could be wrong, but I don't think the Tewaarton is a career award.
No it’s not
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:24 am
by Finster
Reading these posts makes me convinced that this years award winner will win by the tiniest of margins.
O’Neill could’ve sewn it up. He did not. In the most important game, he disappeared. Plus his team lost the title game.
Kavanaugh had no production last two games, the two most important, injury or no injury. Yet he won the title game. That might count more than usual.
Shellenberger is the best player of all of these candidates. He just is. And he produced in the last two games. But he was injured for part of the year. And of course his team lost to ND.
Kirst imo is a better player than either O’Neill or Kavanaugh. But his team crashed out in the first round. Not good.
Dordevic produced at the end, but really I don’t see him in the same category as the other 4.
Net net, it’s a total crap shoot here, guys. Probably gonna be some serious politicking the next few weeks.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:43 am
by coda
Finster wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:24 am
Reading these posts makes me convinced that this years award winner will win by the tiniest of margins.
O’Neill could’ve sewn it up. He did not. In the most important game, he disappeared. Plus his team lost the title game.
Kavanaugh had no production last two games, the two most important, injury or no injury. Yet he won the title game. That might count more than usual.
Shellenberger is the best player of all of these candidates. He just is. And he produced in the last two games. But he was injured for part of the year. And of course his team lost to ND.
Kirst imo is a better player than either O’Neill or Kavanaugh. But his team crashed out in the first round. Not good.
Dordevic produced at the end, but really I don’t see him in the same category as the other 4.
Net net, it’s a total crap shoot here, guys. Probably gonna be some serious politicking the next few weeks.
Write in Ballot for TJ Malone?
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 10:59 am
by Finster
coda wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:43 am
Finster wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:24 am
Reading these posts makes me convinced that this years award winner will win by the tiniest of margins.
O’Neill could’ve sewn it up. He did not. In the most important game, he disappeared. Plus his team lost the title game.
Kavanaugh had no production last two games, the two most important, injury or no injury. Yet he won the title game. That might count more than usual.
Shellenberger is the best player of all of these candidates. He just is. And he produced in the last two games. But he was injured for part of the year. And of course his team lost to ND.
Kirst imo is a better player than either O’Neill or Kavanaugh. But his team crashed out in the first round. Not good.
Dordevic produced at the end, but really I don’t see him in the same category as the other 4.
Net net, it’s a total crap shoot here, guys. Probably gonna be some serious politicking the next few weeks.
Write in Ballot for TJ Malone?
Or Entenmann. Malone certainly has the talent to be the winner.
Most years like last few are easy to predict. This year is going to be difficult for the committee. I figure they need to take into account other factors that have been easier to overlook in prior years (such as, Spencer imo was an easy choice in 2019, but of course they were knocked out of the ‘19 tournament by PSU; this year might go to Kavanaugh simply because ND won the tournament, even though he didn’t have numbers nor frankly is he as good imo as Shellenberger whom I believe is the most talented of the five).
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am
by ohmilax34
When I've watched Brennan O'Neill this season, he has done very little work to help his team's offense when he doesn't have the ball. He will sweep across the top without the ball to try to get a pass and get a shot, but I think those are always plays drawn up for him. Otherwise, if he doesn't have the ball, he's standing in the high lefty wing. He isn't setting picks, working to get open inside or anything else. Just standing.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:23 am
by Finster
ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am
When I've watched Brennan O'Neill this season, he has done very little work to help his team's offense when he doesn't have the ball. He will sweep across the top without the ball to try to get a pass and get a shot, but I think those are always plays drawn up for him. Otherwise, if he doesn't have the ball, he's standing in the high lefty wing. He isn't setting picks, working to get open inside or anything else. Just standing.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your analysis (which I’d echo) but he did have an almost equal number of goals and assists this year. Maybe we just don’t see Duke enough.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:36 am
by ohmilax34
Finster wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:23 am
ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am
When I've watched Brennan O'Neill this season, he has done very little work to help his team's offense when he doesn't have the ball. He will sweep across the top without the ball to try to get a pass and get a shot, but I think those are always plays drawn up for him. Otherwise, if he doesn't have the ball, he's standing in the high lefty wing. He isn't setting picks, working to get open inside or anything else. Just standing.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your analysis (which I’d echo) but he did have an almost equal number of goals and assists this year. Maybe we just don’t see Duke enough.
O'Neill is obviously wildly talented, and he has great players around him. Assists shouldn't be too hard to get with that team. I watched O'Neill a lot. There were some long stretches that I couldn't even see him on the TV screen when Duke played offense, because he was so far away from the play. It seems like he does nothing until he gets the ball at the edge of the box, or further out.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:39 am
by 44WeWantMore
ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am
When I've watched Brennan O'Neill this season, he has done very little work to help his team's offense when he doesn't have the ball. He will sweep across the top without the ball to try to get a pass and get a shot, but I think those are always plays drawn up for him. Otherwise, if he doesn't have the ball, he's standing in the high lefty wing. He isn't setting picks, working to get open inside or anything else. Just standing.
He did set a great pick yesterday.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:58 am
by ohmilax34
44WeWantMore wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:39 am
ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 am
When I've watched Brennan O'Neill this season, he has done very little work to help his team's offense when he doesn't have the ball. He will sweep across the top without the ball to try to get a pass and get a shot, but I think those are always plays drawn up for him. Otherwise, if he doesn't have the ball, he's standing in the high lefty wing. He isn't setting picks, working to get open inside or anything else. Just standing.
He did set a great pick yesterday.
Yeah, I think I remember that. I get that coaches don't use their best players as pickers, because defenders will use that opportunity to make a big hit. The subtleties of picking, and not getting clobbered while setting a pick, are learned over time so I'm not surprised O'Neill isn't picking a ton.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 12:29 pm
by laxfan1313
Finster wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:24 am
Reading these posts makes me convinced that this years award winner will win by the tiniest of margins.
O’Neill could’ve sewn it up. He did not. In the most important game, he disappeared. Plus his team lost the title game.
Kavanaugh had no production last two games, the two most important, injury or no injury. Yet he won the title game. That might count more than usual.
Shellenberger is the best player of all of these candidates. He just is. And he produced in the last two games. But he was injured for part of the year. And of course his team lost to ND.
Kirst imo is a better player than either O’Neill or Kavanaugh. But his team crashed out in the first round. Not good.
Dordevic produced at the end, but really I don’t see him in the same category as the other 4.
Net net, it’s a total crap shoot here, guys. Probably gonna be some serious politicking the next few weeks.
The award is presented in two days, not a few weeks from now. Kirst has the best numbers in goals/game and points/game and the Turnbull. It's an individual award not a team award. And it's just for this season, not for a career. It's either Kirst or O'Neill, and the latter didn't help himself yesterday. One final point: Eamon McEneaney remains the king of them all in the history of the NCAA tourney: 25 points in 3 games in 1977, still the record, 8.33 points/game and an undefeated NC, Most Outstanding Player and Enners Award. He also received the posthumous Tewaaraton Legends Award in 2012, the second one presented (Jim Brown received the first one). RIP Eamon!