D1 Men Rankings

[Cooter]

Coaches Poll 2/18
1 Loyola (17) 378 2-0 2
2 Penn State (2) 357 3-0 4
3 Maryland 333 3-0 3
4 Cornell 284 0-0 6
5 Duke 280 3-1 8
6 Notre Dame 266 1-0 7
7 Yale 258 0-1 1
8 Denver 241 1-1 5
9 Towson 227 2-0 10
10 North Carolina 186 3-0 12
11 Ohio State 180 3-0 13
12 Virginia 168 1-1 11
13 High Point 135 3-0 16
14 Villanova 124 1-1 NR
15 Army 102 2-0 19
16 Georgetown 92 2-0 17
17 Colgate 86 2-0 20
18 Rutgers 66 2-1 9
19 Princeton 65 1-0 18
20 Syracuse 55 1-1 NR
Others receiving votes: Marquette, 21; Navy, 20; Johns Hopkins, 13; Brown, 11; Michigan, 9; Penn 9; Hofstra, 6; Albany (NY), 5; Richmond, 5; Massachusetts, 3; Saint John's (NY), 3; Saint Joseph's, 2.
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... la-coaches

[10stone5]

https://www.masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings

Massey Ratings not yet updated for this past weekend.

[DU-fan]

Division I Media Poll
Rank Team Points Prev
1 Loyola (2 - 0) 615 (26) 2
2 Penn State (3 - 0) 588 (5) 4
3 Maryland (3 - 0) 556 3
4 Cornell (0 - 0) 524 5
5 Duke (3 - 1) 437 10
6 Yale (0 - 1) 404 1
7 Towson (2 - 0) 403 7
8 Notre Dame (1 - 0) 398 9
9 Denver (1 - 1) 366 6
10 Ohio State (3 - 0) 302 12

Why would Duke move up 5 spots for beating Denver on a buzzer beater? That was a thrilling win for Duke. But, does it warrant moving 4 spots above Denver?

Why would ND move up to 8 from the 11 in the preseason for running the score up on Detroit Mercy? It is not like they they knocked off Yale.

Cornell moved and hasn't even played a game yet.

The media is crazy and all over the place

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Division I Media Poll
Rank Team Points Prev
1 Loyola (2 - 0) 615 (26) 2
2 Penn State (3 - 0) 588 (5) 4
3 Maryland (3 - 0) 556 3
4 Cornell (0 - 0) 524 5
5 Duke (3 - 1) 437 10
6 Yale (0 - 1) 404 1
7 Towson (2 - 0) 403 7
8 Notre Dame (1 - 0) 398 9
9 Denver (1 - 1) 366 6
10 Ohio State (3 - 0) 302 12

Why would Duke move up 5 spots for beating Denver on a buzzer beater? That was a thrilling win for Duke. But, does it warrant moving 4 spots above Denver?

Why would ND move up to 8 from the 11 in the preseason for running the score up on Detroit Mercy? It is not like they they knocked off Yale.

Cornell moved and hasn't even played a game yet.

The media is crazy and all over the place

Media = fake _ _ _ _!

[Cooter]

Why would Duke move up 5 spots for beating Denver on a buzzer beater? That was a thrilling win for Duke. But, does it warrant moving 4 spots above Denver?

Why would ND move up to 8 from the 11 in the preseason for running the score up on Detroit Mercy? It is not like they they knocked off Yale.

Cornell moved and hasn't even played a game yet.

The media is crazy and all over the place

I take the media rankings with a grain of salt. So I don't pay much attention to them.

So I mainly focus on the coaches poll.
I thought Denver played pretty well against Duke. In a true power rankings sense they should be about the same as Duke, but it was a loss.

I don't see moving Cornell up into the top 4 when they haven't even played, but in the end, by the same sort of logic, why should they drop?

Notre Dame was #7 in the coaches poll last week. They did win. While beating Detroit isn't anything special, Notre Dame's offense, which is their big question mark, did put up a lot of goals which seems like a positive. So I don't think ND should drop.

So at the moment, I think the Coaches having Denver at #8 is a reasonable spot. Perhaps they deserve better.

You always get these questions with early rankings - "now that Hopkins has dropped out of the top 20, was Towson beating them that good a win?"
High Point beating Duke seems like a much better win.

[foreverlax]

Why would Duke move up 5 spots for beating Denver on a buzzer beater? That was a thrilling win for Duke. But, does it warrant moving 4 spots above Denver?

Why would ND move up to 8 from the 11 in the preseason for running the score up on Detroit Mercy? It is not like they they knocked off Yale.

Cornell moved and hasn't even played a game yet.

The media is crazy and all over the place

I take the media rankings with a grain of salt. So I don't pay much attention to them.

So I mainly focus on the coaches poll.
I thought Denver played pretty well against Duke. In a true power rankings sense they should be about the same as Duke, but it was a loss.

I don't see moving Cornell up into the top 4 when they haven't even played, but in the end, by the same sort of logic, why should they drop?

Notre Dame was #7 in the coaches poll last week. They did win. While beating Detroit isn't anything special, Notre Dame's offense, which is their big question mark, did put up a lot of goals which seems like a positive. So I don't think ND should drop.

So at the moment, I think the Coaches having Denver at #8 is a reasonable spot. Perhaps they deserve better.

You always get these questions with early rankings - "now that Hopkins has dropped out of the top 20, was Towson beating them that good a win?"
High Point beating Duke seems like a much better win.

Hard for me to imagine that Hopkins doesn't come up with some quality wins, in or out of conference.

Towson will need to help themselves - with Loy, Duke and Denver on the schedule, they will need to win one and be competitive all 3 of these games to prove they are a top 10 type team.

Wins over Gtown and Jville are required to remain in the top 20 going in to conference play.

[houndace1]

Why would Duke move up 5 spots for beating Denver on a buzzer beater? That was a thrilling win for Duke. But, does it warrant moving 4 spots above Denver?

Why would ND move up to 8 from the 11 in the preseason for running the score up on Detroit Mercy? It is not like they they knocked off Yale.

Cornell moved and hasn't even played a game yet.

The media is crazy and all over the place

I take the media rankings with a grain of salt. So I don't pay much attention to them.

So I mainly focus on the coaches poll.
I thought Denver played pretty well against Duke. In a true power rankings sense they should be about the same as Duke, but it was a loss.

I don't see moving Cornell up into the top 4 when they haven't even played, but in the end, by the same sort of logic, why should they drop?

Notre Dame was #7 in the coaches poll last week. They did win. While beating Detroit isn't anything special, Notre Dame's offense, which is their big question mark, did put up a lot of goals which seems like a positive. So I don't think ND should drop.

So at the moment, I think the Coaches having Denver at #8 is a reasonable spot. Perhaps they deserve better.

You always get these questions with early rankings - "now that Hopkins has dropped out of the top 20, was Towson beating them that good a win?"
High Point beating Duke seems like a much better win.

Hard for me to imagine that Hopkins doesn't come up with some quality wins, in or out of conference.

Towson will need to help themselves - with Loy, Duke and Denver on the schedule, they will need to win one and be competitive all 3 of these games to prove they are a top 10 type team.

Wins over Gtown and Jville are required to remain in the top 20 going in to conference play.

WIth how hopkins is playing and given their upcoming opponents say for Delaware and MSM, hopkins could very well lose those games before entering Big 10 play.

and as both a hopkins/loyola fan. i'm liking the hype surrounding the latter but until they beat rutgers this weekend, towson 4 days later and then Duke will we see if the Hounds are fully deserving of the hype

[Voyuer]

Time to finally stop ranking the uniforms and start ranking this years teams. Please actually watch the games and not just the O but the D's and SSDM, Poles, ect., then take into consideration teams that play 4-5-6 consecutive home games in FEB- March. How would these teams (ACC & BIG) do on the road??? HPU has two ACC wins, but when they lose 2 games in conference, they will drop out of the top 20. Army was 2-0 vs ACC two years ago and did not Make the NCAA tourney because they lost to "weaker" PL teams. Everyone needs to stop assuming that because big State U recruited the kids you know the names of by 8'th grade, that those college teams made up of those kids, are better teams. A lot of kids all over the country, and on teams all over the lacrosse landscape can play. And now A TON of guys can really coach.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Time to finally stop ranking the uniforms and start ranking this years teams. Please actually watch the games and not just the O but the D's and SSDM, Poles, ect., then take into consideration teams that play 4-5-6 consecutive home games in FEB- March. How would these teams (ACC & BIG) do on the road??? HPU has two ACC wins, but when they lose 2 games in conference, they will drop out of the top 20. Army was 2-0 vs ACC two years ago and did not Make the NCAA tourney because they lost to "weaker" PL teams. Everyone needs to stop assuming that because big State U recruited the kids you know the names of by 8'th grade, that those college teams made up of those kids, are better teams. A lot of kids all over the country, and on teams all over the lacrosse landscape can play. And now A TON of guys can really coach.

+1000

[Dunker]

Totally agree with Voyeur's post but hate his name. So I second TLD +1000.

One bad loss and your out. Pretty unfair. Ask RU and Army. Not everyone can schedule games against top 20 teams almost every week unless you're in the B1G or ACC and your name isn't Rutgers. HP can easily run into a conference foe who knows their style and how to play them.
Comparable to college hoops. Creighton/Davidson/Wichita State are or were mid-majors. Davidson for example this year is losing numerous conference games because of familiarity. In the NCAA Tournament, they are dangerous. That was Loyola of Chicago last year. Murray State every year. For you gamblers out there, expect UCI to play tough in this year's NCAA Tournament.
More props for DU's Tierney. Nobody wants to come to Denver, so he gets 1 top ten per year at home (this year none) 5-6 top 20's on the road, and the rest just average or below average teams. DU's run to the NCAA's begins opening day for they have little room for error. In 9 plus years with Tierney, DU has never suffered what would be classified as a "bad loss". That's a pretty amazing stat.

[DU-fan]

Totally agree with Voyeur's post but hate his name. So I second TLD +1000.

Too funny

I agree that Tierney is a master scheduler from an RPI and NCAA qualifier perspective. He also works in "growing the game" by supporting Cleveland St. and now Utah every year.

[wgdsr]

Time to finally stop ranking the uniforms and start ranking this years teams. Please actually watch the games and not just the O but the D's and SSDM, Poles, ect., then take into consideration teams that play 4-5-6 consecutive home games in FEB- March. How would these teams (ACC & BIG) do on the road??? HPU has two ACC wins, but when they lose 2 games in conference, they will drop out of the top 20. Army was 2-0 vs ACC two years ago and did not Make the NCAA tourney because they lost to "weaker" PL teams. Everyone needs to stop assuming that because big State U recruited the kids you know the names of by 8'th grade, that those college teams made up of those kids, are better teams. A lot of kids all over the country, and on teams all over the lacrosse landscape can play. And now A TON of guys can really coach.

poll rankings don't matter for anything, as far as i can tell.
after week one of the season (really, just a handful of games... and "upsets")... i believed that this year could finally be one of a whole lot of parity, not just glacial.
the above are popular hot takes, but solutions are what matter, if you believe as many on all sides of the issue do, that the system is at least partially broken.
imbedded in that for tourney selection is rpi. what's your better solution? i said many times on lp that the major issue is that:
a) it's not all done empirically, but randomly with an opaque and ever-changing weighting system and a bunch of subjective analysis.
sometimes by ex-softball coaches, now asst ADs. personally, i think you have to take that all out, though i'm probably pi**ing into the wind on that.
b) the numbers themselves are poorly drawn up. even if you liked rpi for lack of a better measuring tool, the way they supposedly break it up is asinine. 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, anything over 20 doesn't matter (for wins, but is a deep cut for losses). so beating the #22 team gets you nothing and losing to them dings you...and to the same degree as a contest vs the #68 team. while the same results vs #20 make you a hero. THAT's the main problem, imo. give every result a grade off of rpi or its facsimile. points for for wins, points against for losses. figure a system that weights it properly. vs #1 to #71.

everybody knows where everyone stands at year end (and before the year --- what the rules are), the committee gets together for a couple hours on seeding, buses, planes and matchups, then grabs for the tray of little sandwiches.

going back to the original thought --- if you think past years were a problem, wait until this year if there's a whole lot of teams with similar resumes duking it out.

[runrussellrun]

4 of 5 ACC teams got an invite last year.......only one team was left after the first round of playoffs. Half of the at larges going to independents.

and, what is the non AQ ACC doing this year, setting up a trophy for everyone format? Why bother playing the regular season, at all ? (team 4 & 5 play on THursday for the final ACC double RPI dip meaningless ACC championship trophy ......such a waste of time )

What is wrong with starting with winning percentage? to simple

Also, you gotta account for the lack of inter league play, especially for the bigger leagues like the Patriot. Don't think Syracuse has evah played a SUnshine conference team. Nor an America East team, besides Albany. Any Big East teams make its way into the DOME, ever? Gotta be some kind of formula ding to the magic rpi

[wgdsr]

4 of 5 ACC teams got an invite last year.......only one team was left after the first round of playoffs. Half of the at larges going to independents.
and when the acc was putting 2 and 3 teams into the ff every year, you of course were all behind them.
and, what is the non AQ ACC doing this year, setting up a trophy for everyone format? Why bother playing the regular season, at all ? (team 4 & 5 play on THursday for the final ACC double RPI dip meaningless ACC championship trophy ......such a waste of time )
it's not a waste of time as long as every team is getting a double dip for their tournament as well. the solution is to eliminate tournament games from rpi readings, wins/etc., not to bemoan the acc playing when they don't get a freebie like every other league. your logic is in left field. tournaments don't have to be played by other leagues, either.
What is wrong with starting with winning percentage? to simple
because your unintended consequence will be that teams will eschew tough ooc games, maybe entirely, and line up pigeons. (see: nc$$ football) beyond that, it treats every game win/loss the same... which is even worse than the system they have now.
Also, you gotta account for the lack of inter league play, especially for the bigger leagues like the Patriot. Don't think Syracuse has evah played a SUnshine conference team. Nor an America East team, besides Albany. Any Big East teams make its way into the DOME, ever? Gotta be some kind of formula ding to the magic rpi
there is a ton of interleague play in lacrosse, relative to other sports' standards. (maybe not baseball, hockey). but at least football, which is almost all conference play, and basketball which is typically well over half, and also has creampuffs for the rest. your recommendations will not get dangerous teams like high point games, you will eliminate them. st bonnies' phone will be ringing off the hook. patriot is i believe the only "big" league. does anyone else play more than 5 or 6 conference games? you're allowed 16 contests, i think. even patriot teams can go out and get a bunch of them if they want. most choose to strategize for saturday instead.

no thanks. draw up a system where every win is measured, every loss is measured. somebody that does it smartly can reward teams that win a large percentage and at least pull off a decent # of decent wins, and punish teams for losing too much or not going competitive enough with their schedule.

[Sllaxdad]

PL is a strong conference this year with 4 of top 25 teams. Let's avoid the discussion on budgets, academics and TV biased. would love to see Cuse travel to Colgate and play outdoors in mid-Feb. Or NC, Hopkins or Duke travel north to play Army, PC or BU (again outdoors) in Mid-Feb. I am sure they would have to rent the winter coats for the occasion. The smaller Northeast schools with budget constraints play regional teams to cut down on travel expenses, suffer from lower RPI rankings. the B10 and ACC should just break off and have their own tournament and let the other kids have a real chance to compete for a true national title.

[Typical Lax Dad]

4 of 5 ACC teams got an invite last year.......only one team was left after the first round of playoffs. Half of the at larges going to independents.
and when the acc was putting 2 and 3 teams into the ff every year, you of course were all behind them.
and, what is the non AQ ACC doing this year, setting up a trophy for everyone format? Why bother playing the regular season, at all ? (team 4 & 5 play on THursday for the final ACC double RPI dip meaningless ACC championship trophy ......such a waste of time )
it's not a waste of time as long as every team is getting a double dip for their tournament as well. the solution is to eliminate tournament games from rpi readings, wins/etc., not to bemoan the acc playing when they don't get a freebie like every other league. your logic is in left field. tournaments don't have to be played by other leagues, either.
What is wrong with starting with winning percentage? to simple
because your unintended consequence will be that teams will eschew tough ooc games, maybe entirely, and line up pigeons. (see: nc$$ football) beyond that, it treats every game win/loss the same... which is even worse than the system they have now.
Also, you gotta account for the lack of inter league play, especially for the bigger leagues like the Patriot. Don't think Syracuse has evah played a SUnshine conference team. Nor an America East team, besides Albany. Any Big East teams make its way into the DOME, ever? Gotta be some kind of formula ding to the magic rpi
there is a ton of interleague play in lacrosse, relative to other sports' standards. (maybe not baseball, hockey). but at least football, which is almost all conference play, and basketball which is typically well over half, and also has creampuffs for the rest. your recommendations will not get dangerous teams like high point games, you will eliminate them. st bonnies' phone will be ringing off the hook. patriot is i believe the only "big" league. does anyone else play more than 5 or 6 conference games? you're allowed 16 contests, i think. even patriot teams can go out and get a bunch of them if they want. most choose to strategize for saturday instead.

no thanks. draw up a system where every win is measured, every loss is measured. somebody that does it smartly can reward teams that win a large percentage and at least pull off a decent # of decent wins, and punish teams for losing too much or not going competitive enough with their schedule.

Off Topic, what do you think of the b-ball player Campbell? I think of you every time I watch him play.

[wgdsr]

4 of 5 ACC teams got an invite last year.......only one team was left after the first round of playoffs. Half of the at larges going to independents.
and when the acc was putting 2 and 3 teams into the ff every year, you of course were all behind them.
and, what is the non AQ ACC doing this year, setting up a trophy for everyone format? Why bother playing the regular season, at all ? (team 4 & 5 play on THursday for the final ACC double RPI dip meaningless ACC championship trophy ......such a waste of time )
it's not a waste of time as long as every team is getting a double dip for their tournament as well. the solution is to eliminate tournament games from rpi readings, wins/etc., not to bemoan the acc playing when they don't get a freebie like every other league. your logic is in left field. tournaments don't have to be played by other leagues, either.
What is wrong with starting with winning percentage? to simple
because your unintended consequence will be that teams will eschew tough ooc games, maybe entirely, and line up pigeons. (see: nc$$ football) beyond that, it treats every game win/loss the same... which is even worse than the system they have now.
Also, you gotta account for the lack of inter league play, especially for the bigger leagues like the Patriot. Don't think Syracuse has evah played a SUnshine conference team. Nor an America East team, besides Albany. Any Big East teams make its way into the DOME, ever? Gotta be some kind of formula ding to the magic rpi
there is a ton of interleague play in lacrosse, relative to other sports' standards. (maybe not baseball, hockey). but at least football, which is almost all conference play, and basketball which is typically well over half, and also has creampuffs for the rest. your recommendations will not get dangerous teams like high point games, you will eliminate them. st bonnies' phone will be ringing off the hook. patriot is i believe the only "big" league. does anyone else play more than 5 or 6 conference games? you're allowed 16 contests, i think. even patriot teams can go out and get a bunch of them if they want. most choose to strategize for saturday instead.

no thanks. draw up a system where every win is measured, every loss is measured. somebody that does it smartly can reward teams that win a large percentage and at least pull off a decent # of decent wins, and punish teams for losing too much or not going competitive enough with their schedule.

Off Topic, what do you think of the b-ball player Campbell? I think of you every time I watch him play.

do you mean clemons from campbell?? seen parts of 2 games and hi-lites. moody with an even higher motor and better shot selection (so entertaining in a different way!). ridiculous range. perfect arc, pure shooter, when he hits it its swish. goes against lower competition, but he's as quick and athletic as anyone and gives his team a real chance at the dance. plays the whole game, working the entire time, knows how to get open off a screen or backcut. would love to see them playing a high seed in 4 weeks, he gets hot it'll be a game.
has a real chance to start out in the league for a cup of coffee @ least and see how it goes, which i didn't think moody had.

[Typical Lax Dad]

4 of 5 ACC teams got an invite last year.......only one team was left after the first round of playoffs. Half of the at larges going to independents.
and when the acc was putting 2 and 3 teams into the ff every year, you of course were all behind them.
and, what is the non AQ ACC doing this year, setting up a trophy for everyone format? Why bother playing the regular season, at all ? (team 4 & 5 play on THursday for the final ACC double RPI dip meaningless ACC championship trophy ......such a waste of time )
it's not a waste of time as long as every team is getting a double dip for their tournament as well. the solution is to eliminate tournament games from rpi readings, wins/etc., not to bemoan the acc playing when they don't get a freebie like every other league. your logic is in left field. tournaments don't have to be played by other leagues, either.
What is wrong with starting with winning percentage? to simple
because your unintended consequence will be that teams will eschew tough ooc games, maybe entirely, and line up pigeons. (see: nc$$ football) beyond that, it treats every game win/loss the same... which is even worse than the system they have now.
Also, you gotta account for the lack of inter league play, especially for the bigger leagues like the Patriot. Don't think Syracuse has evah played a SUnshine conference team. Nor an America East team, besides Albany. Any Big East teams make its way into the DOME, ever? Gotta be some kind of formula ding to the magic rpi
there is a ton of interleague play in lacrosse, relative to other sports' standards. (maybe not baseball, hockey). but at least football, which is almost all conference play, and basketball which is typically well over half, and also has creampuffs for the rest. your recommendations will not get dangerous teams like high point games, you will eliminate them. st bonnies' phone will be ringing off the hook. patriot is i believe the only "big" league. does anyone else play more than 5 or 6 conference games? you're allowed 16 contests, i think. even patriot teams can go out and get a bunch of them if they want. most choose to strategize for saturday instead.

no thanks. draw up a system where every win is measured, every loss is measured. somebody that does it smartly can reward teams that win a large percentage and at least pull off a decent # of decent wins, and punish teams for losing too much or not going competitive enough with their schedule.

Off Topic, what do you think of the b-ball player Campbell? I think of you every time I watch him play.

do you mean clemons from campbell?? seen parts of 2 games and hi-lites. moody with an even higher motor and better shot selection (so entertaining in a different way!). ridiculous range. perfect arc, pure shooter, when he hits it its swish. goes against lower competition, but he's as quick and athletic as anyone and gives his team a real chance at the dance. plays the whole game, working the entire time, knows how to get open off a screen or backcut. would love to see them playing a high seed in 4 weeks, he gets hot it'll be a game.
has a real chance to start out in the league for a cup of coffee @ least and see how it goes, which i didn't think moody had.

Yep. He has a pure pure stroke. Effortless. Duke recruited him late. Went to see Ingram and saw him!

[WATCHER PC]

Totally agree with Voyeur's post but hate his name. So I second TLD +1000.

i could go with this, but would be accused of caving to the Mob. Also Voyuer just got some good street cred with last year's tourney Piks!!

[DU-fan]

Based on Yale beating PSU and ND losing to Richmond, I would make the top 10:

1 Loyola (3 - 0)
2 Maryland (5 - 0)
3 Yale (1 - 1)
4 Penn State (3 - 1)
5 Cornell (1 - 0)
6 Towson (3 - 0)
7 Duke (3 - 1)
8 Denver (1 - 1)
9 Ohio State (4 - 0)
10 Army (3 - 0)