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Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:31 am
by Hawkeye
Loyola has now officially clinched their berth into the 2019 Patriot League tournament.
Army is about as close to clinching as they possibly can be.
So 3 spots remain, essentially, between 5 teams. Lafayette is not mathematically eliminated yet... but they are close to being.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:21 am
by houndace1
according to the PL website, Army hasn't clinched a spot yet in the PL tournament as they lost to BU yesterday. The only two schools that clinched a spot so far are Loyola and Lehigh
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:36 pm
by Hawkeye
houndace1 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:21 am
according to the PL website, Army hasn't clinched a spot yet in the PL tournament as they lost to BU yesterday. The only two schools that clinched a spot so far are Loyola and Lehigh
You are correct. I missed a scenario.
I was thinking that the worst thing that could happen to Army was a 3-way tie for 5th-7th or a 4-way tie for 4th-7th, in either case, Army came out on the right side of the tiebreaker.
However. It is still possible for Army/BU/CHC/Navy, and either Bucknell or Colgate to end up in a 5-way tie for 3rd-7th at 4-4. If this happens, Army would not be guaranteed to make the tournament if they finish last in the tiebreaker.
I have updated my above post... Thanks!
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:33 pm
by houndace1
Given the remaining PL games of the regular season, what are some possible predictions that people have for the teams?
I personally think Loyola could take 1 loss out of the three remaining teams. Most likely it will be between BU and Army. One loss won't affect the resume that much ( i think...?) but if they lose 1 game out of 3, they still host the PLT. Win that, and then they can still host a first round game as a possible Top 4 seed
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 am
by Hawkeye
Army has now officially clinched their berth into the 2019 Patriot League tournament. Both Colgate and Lafayette were officially eliminated last weekend.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
by houndace1
Big PL weekend as Loyola Lehigh and Army all look to secure a 1-2 spot in the PLT. Lafayette and Colgate have officially been bounced.
Lehigh vs Bucknell
BU vs. HC
Loyola v. Army
Who you got
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:52 am
by Sllaxdad
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:05 pm
by Voyuer
Actually very few surprises in the PL this year going into the last week. If anything BU a tad better, and Navy a tad worse then expected. The rest pretty much as expected. Who wins the tie breaker if Navy, HC and Bucknell all win their home games Friday??
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:12 pm
by Voyuer
Never mind... I found the amazing every possible PL scenario on the PL home web site.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:20 pm
by Hawkeye
Voyuer wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:05 pm
Actually very few surprises in the PL this year going into the last week. If anything BU a tad better, and Navy a tad worse then expected. The rest pretty much as expected. Who wins the tie breaker if Navy, HC and Bucknell all win their home games Friday??
Preseason IL rankings
1. Loyola (4)
2. Lehigh (13)
3. Boston Univ. (27)
4. Navy (30)
5. Bucknell (32)
6. Army (35)
7. Colgate (39)
8. Holy Cross (62)
9. Lafayette (68)
For the last two spots, there are 5 possible outcomes.
A: CHC, Bucknell win (BU/Navy is irrelevant in this outcome)
5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell
B: CHC, Colgate win (BU/Navy is irrelevant in this outcome)
5. Holy Cross
6. Navy
C: Lehigh, Navy win (Colgate/Bucknell is irrelevant in this outcome)
5. Navy
6. Bucknell
D: Lehigh, BU, Bucknell win
5. Bucknell
6. Holy Cross
E: Lehigh, BU, Colgate win
5. Navy
6. Holy Cross
If anyone spots a mistake here, please let me know.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:01 pm
by laxxygilmore
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:20 pm
Voyuer wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:05 pm
Actually very few surprises in the PL this year going into the last week. If anything BU a tad better, and Navy a tad worse then expected. The rest pretty much as expected. Who wins the tie breaker if Navy, HC and Bucknell all win their home games Friday??
Preseason IL rankings
1. Loyola (4)
2. Lehigh (13)
3. Boston Univ. (27)
4. Navy (30)
5. Bucknell (32)
6. Army (35)
7. Colgate (39)
8. Holy Cross (62)
9. Lafayette (68)
For the last two spots, there are 6 possible outcomes.
A: CHC, Navy, Bucknell win
5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell
B: CHC, Colgate win (BU/Navy is irrelevant in this outcome)
5. Holy Cross
6. Navy
C: CHC, BU, Bucknell win
5. Bucknell
6. Holy Cross
D: Lehigh, Navy win (Colgate/Bucknell is irrelevant in this outcome)
5. Navy
6. Bucknell
E: Lehigh, BU, Bucknell win
5. Bucknell
6. Holy Cross
F: Lehigh, BU, Colgate win
5. Navy
6. Holy Cross
If anyone spots a mistake here, please let me know.
Thanks for the clarity. So, to further clarify regarding options C & E, regardless of the CHC vs. Lehigh outcome, if BU defeats Navy and Bucknell defeats Colgate, Navy doesn't make the PLT.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:43 pm
by Hawkeye
laxxygilmore wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:01 pm
Thanks for the clarity. So, to further clarify regarding options C & E, regardless of the CHC vs. Lehigh outcome, if BU defeats Navy and Bucknell defeats Colgate, Navy doesn't make the PLT.
Thanks, I overlooked that. I'll edit it.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:49 pm
by GreyingHound
Even though Loyola is going to win tonight and render this irrelevant
I was looking at the tie-breaking rules and possible seeding scenarios, and the last one below makes no sense to me. If Loyola loses to Lafayette and Lehigh and BU both win, so all three teams are tied at 6-2, how in the world does Loyola, with the worst PL loss of the bunch, end up winning the tiebreaker for the top seed?
Loyola Maryland (6-1 PL): Clinched berth in the Patriot League Tournament and a quarterfinal bye
* Will be the No. 1 seed if they defeat Lafayette.
* Would be the No. 2 seed with a loss to Lafayette and BU beats Navy, Lehigh lose to Holy Cross.
* Will be No. 1 seed if Navy beats BU, regardless of the result of Loyola’s game against Lafayette.
* If Loyola Maryland loses to Lafayette, Lehigh defeats Holy Cross and Boston University defeats Navy (Loyola, Boston U and Lehigh finish 6-2), Loyola will be the 1st seed, due to Bucknell and Colgate finishing ahead of Lafayette, giving Loyola the edge.
In looking at the tie-breaking rules, it appears that losses against other seeded teams are examined, but not losses against teams that didn't even make the tournament. That makes no sense to me.
Am I missing something?
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:40 pm
by houndace1
Top 6 seeds are set after tonight:
1. Loyola
2. Lehigh
3. Boston University
4. Army
5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell.
6. Bucknell travels to 3. BU for tuesday,
5. Holy cross to 4. Army.
Lowest remaining seed goes against Loyola
Highest remaining seed plays Lehigh
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:02 am
by jmct
GreyingHound wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:49 pm
Even though Loyola is going to win tonight and render this irrelevant
I was looking at the tie-breaking rules and possible seeding scenarios, and the last one below makes no sense to me. If Loyola loses to Lafayette and Lehigh and BU both win, so all three teams are tied at 6-2, how in the world does Loyola, with the worst PL loss of the bunch, end up winning the tiebreaker for the top seed?
Loyola Maryland (6-1 PL): Clinched berth in the Patriot League Tournament and a quarterfinal bye
* Will be the No. 1 seed if they defeat Lafayette.
* Would be the No. 2 seed with a loss to Lafayette and BU beats Navy, Lehigh lose to Holy Cross.
* Will be No. 1 seed if Navy beats BU, regardless of the result of Loyola’s game against Lafayette.
* If Loyola Maryland loses to Lafayette, Lehigh defeats Holy Cross and Boston University defeats Navy (Loyola, Boston U and Lehigh finish 6-2), Loyola will be the 1st seed, due to Bucknell and Colgate finishing ahead of Lafayette, giving Loyola the edge.
In looking at the tie-breaking rules, it appears that losses against other seeded teams are examined, but not losses against teams that didn't even make the tournament. That makes no sense to me.
Am I missing something?
The PL uses the same type of tiebreaker as most leagues. If head-to-head does not break the tie, then the next thing to look at is the tied teams' record against the best team. If that doesn't break the tie, then look at their record against the next-best team, etc. etc. Thus record against Lafayette would only be examined if the records against everyone else failed to break the tie. (And by the time, it would be certain that the records against Lafayette would have to be the same as well.)
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:54 am
by Sllaxdad
PL a good league — top to bottom. Obviously Loyola is a special group with an elite player and coach. The gap is not as large as ESPN and/or Inside Lacrosse reports. Should be enjoyable to watch at Ridley, hope the weather is good so that the crowds show up.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:13 am
by crusader66
Holy Cross winners of 5 of last 6. Peaking at right time. Should be interesting game on Tuesday. Only lost by 1 during regular season. Gotta believe Burke gets coach of year in Patriot.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:41 am
by GreyingHound
jmct wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:02 am
GreyingHound wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:49 pm
Even though Loyola is going to win tonight and render this irrelevant
I was looking at the tie-breaking rules and possible seeding scenarios, and the last one below makes no sense to me. If Loyola loses to Lafayette and Lehigh and BU both win, so all three teams are tied at 6-2, how in the world does Loyola, with the worst PL loss of the bunch, end up winning the tiebreaker for the top seed?
Loyola Maryland (6-1 PL): Clinched berth in the Patriot League Tournament and a quarterfinal bye
* Will be the No. 1 seed if they defeat Lafayette.
* Would be the No. 2 seed with a loss to Lafayette and BU beats Navy, Lehigh lose to Holy Cross.
* Will be No. 1 seed if Navy beats BU, regardless of the result of Loyola’s game against Lafayette.
* If Loyola Maryland loses to Lafayette, Lehigh defeats Holy Cross and Boston University defeats Navy (Loyola, Boston U and Lehigh finish 6-2), Loyola will be the 1st seed, due to Bucknell and Colgate finishing ahead of Lafayette, giving Loyola the edge.
In looking at the tie-breaking rules, it appears that losses against other seeded teams are examined, but not losses against teams that didn't even make the tournament. That makes no sense to me.
Am I missing something?
The PL uses the same type of tiebreaker as most leagues. If head-to-head does not break the tie, then the next thing to look at is the tied teams' record against the best team. If that doesn't break the tie, then look at their record against the next-best team, etc. etc. Thus record against Lafayette would only be examined if the records against everyone else failed to break the tie. (And by the time, it would be certain that the records against Lafayette would have to be the same as well.)
Thanks for the explanation. It's interesting that the tie-breaker rules reward good wins but don't penalize bad losses.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:03 am
by youthathletics
Even the leaders at the PL had it wrong back on 4/24/2019 early afternoon.
Per my post on the Navy thread earlier that day with quoted text from the PL website, the 3-way tie was advantage Navy.
It sure left many of us confused who were going by the PL front offices original assessment. Their website subtly admits the error by putting a date stamp on headline of the article.
Re: Patriot League 2019
Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:53 pm
by Sllaxdad
Made no sense to us out of conference game(s) as a measure since not all PL teams play the same out of conference opponents. Use PL teams as part of the tie breaker matrix was proper.