Same Party, Different House
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Lorin exists to be a troll. Spallina actually had 68 points last year as a freshman.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:19 pmDon't love the hype he gets, but he had 55 points as a freshman and it's not a leap of faith to think he'll get better as he gets older. You can argue he's not ranked right, but he's in the top 50 players in the country.
Putting my hobart hat on for a second here…screw that dude!Powellfan22 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:40 pmLorin exists to be a troll. Spallina actually had 68 points last year as a freshman.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:19 pmDon't love the hype he gets, but he had 55 points as a freshman and it's not a leap of faith to think he'll get better as he gets older. You can argue he's not ranked right, but he's in the top 50 players in the country.
I’m not so sure anyone out-works that guy.Powellfan22 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:40 pmSpallina actually had 68 points last year as a freshman.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:19 pmDon't love the hype he gets, but he had 55 points as a freshman and it's not a leap of faith to think he'll get better as he gets older. You can argue he's not ranked right, but he's in the top 50 players in the country.
Very true lolPowellfan22 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:40 pmLorin exists to be a troll. Spallina actually had 68 points last year as a freshman.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:19 pmDon't love the hype he gets, but he had 55 points as a freshman and it's not a leap of faith to think he'll get better as he gets older. You can argue he's not ranked right, but he's in the top 50 players in the country.
I forgot about Cole.. Cole or Boehm not beign on the list is a massive oversight.
O'Neil had 55 and 42.
Melendez at #41 is a crime. Should be #26 instead of Scott... or #23 instead of Spallina.. lol
Contrarian point of view is that Ward put up a lot of his points against subpar competition. He scored 10 points against Hampton, eight against Mount Saint Mary's, seven against Marist. Against Hopkins and Duke and Michigan he combined for only seven points.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 am Anyone who has a problem with Spallina on this list probably never watched him play. There are several players on this list that are a joke in my opinion. You probably know who they are and it’s not my place to badmouth anyone.
But not to belabor a point I made earlier, how do you leave a guy off this list that had 72 points (40 goals 32 assists) his first year starting in ‘22 (while scoring the winning goal over #2 Georgetown in the first round of NCAA) and had 85 points last year (42g 43a - the ONLY 40/40 player in d1) while leading the team to a second straight tournament?
157 points in two years is hard to ignore. IL writers have probably never seen him play a game. Which is surprising since he played his High School ball in their backyard at McDonogh. Hard to miss at 6’2” 210.
That’s probably ILs take.Powellfan22 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:11 amContrarian point of view is that Ward put up a lot of his points against subpar competition. He scored 10 points against Hampton, eight against Mount Saint Mary's, seven against Marist. Against Hopkins and Duke and Michigan he combined for only seven points.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 am Anyone who has a problem with Spallina on this list probably never watched him play. There are several players on this list that are a joke in my opinion. You probably know who they are and it’s not my place to badmouth anyone.
But not to belabor a point I made earlier, how do you leave a guy off this list that had 72 points (40 goals 32 assists) his first year starting in ‘22 (while scoring the winning goal over #2 Georgetown in the first round of NCAA) and had 85 points last year (42g 43a - the ONLY 40/40 player in d1) while leading the team to a second straight tournament?
157 points in two years is hard to ignore. IL writers have probably never seen him play a game. Which is surprising since he played his High School ball in their backyard at McDonogh. Hard to miss at 6’2” 210.
Did they discount Brennan O'Neill's 7 points against Bellarmine, or his 9 points against Merrimack? He only had 3 points in two games against Notre Dame. You can cherry pick any statistic. McAdorey is ranked pretty high as a attackman who had 2 goals and 2 assists in five games against Syracuse, UNC, Virginia, Penn State and Notre Dame. See how cherry picking works?Powellfan22 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:11 amContrarian point of view is that Ward put up a lot of his points against subpar competition. He scored 10 points against Hampton, eight against Mount Saint Mary's, seven against Marist. Against Hopkins and Duke and Michigan he combined for only seven points.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 am Anyone who has a problem with Spallina on this list probably never watched him play. There are several players on this list that are a joke in my opinion. You probably know who they are and it’s not my place to badmouth anyone.
But not to belabor a point I made earlier, how do you leave a guy off this list that had 72 points (40 goals 32 assists) his first year starting in ‘22 (while scoring the winning goal over #2 Georgetown in the first round of NCAA) and had 85 points last year (42g 43a - the ONLY 40/40 player in d1) while leading the team to a second straight tournament?
157 points in two years is hard to ignore. IL writers have probably never seen him play a game. Which is surprising since he played his High School ball in their backyard at McDonogh. Hard to miss at 6’2” 210.
Do you count transfers Jake Stevens (Princeton), Sam English (Princeton), Alex Vardaro (Princeton) as Ivy League players?Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:40 am According to this list, the top talent gap between the ACC/B10 and the Ivies is massive. Ivies have 5 players in the top 50. The ACC has 18 and the B10 17. I'm not sure I buy that.
How many players on this list are grad transfers? That seems to be a major criteria for some on the list. If you believe that a 23 year old is going to be that much better than a 20-21 year old because of maturity and physical development, I guess you go there.
Cornell and Yale are preseason top 10 teams (I know how little this means), but have only 1 player each in the top 50? I have not examined who was left off the list that should be there and who is on the list that should not, but the numbers don't make sense to me unless the Ivies have a ton of players in the 51-100 ranking.
Makes the numbers look more even.No I did not. Those players are not playing for Ivy League teams in 2024. It does not even out anything. Changing uniforms did seem to make some of these players climb up IL's list though (or IL underates the talent in the Ivy League in the preseason).Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:51 amDo you count transfers Jake Stevens (Princeton), Sam English (Princeton), Alex Vardaro (Princeton) as Ivy League players?Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:40 am According to this list, the top talent gap between the ACC/B10 and the Ivies is massive. Ivies have 5 players in the top 50. The ACC has 18 and the B10 17. I'm not sure I buy that.
How many players on this list are grad transfers? That seems to be a major criteria for some on the list. If you believe that a 23 year old is going to be that much better than a 20-21 year old because of maturity and physical development, I guess you go there.
Cornell and Yale are preseason top 10 teams (I know how little this means), but have only 1 player each in the top 50? I have not examined who was left off the list that should be there and who is on the list that should not, but the numbers don't make sense to me unless the Ivies have a ton of players in the 51-100 ranking.
It's a BIG10/ACC world! We are just living in it.Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:58 amNo I did not. Those players are not playing for Ivy League teams in 2024. It does not even out anything. Changing uniforms did seem to make some of these players climb up IL's list though (or IL underates the talent in the Ivy League in the preseason).Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:51 amDo you count transfers Jake Stevens (Princeton), Sam English (Princeton), Alex Vardaro (Princeton) as Ivy League players?Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:40 am According to this list, the top talent gap between the ACC/B10 and the Ivies is massive. Ivies have 5 players in the top 50. The ACC has 18 and the B10 17. I'm not sure I buy that.
How many players on this list are grad transfers? That seems to be a major criteria for some on the list. If you believe that a 23 year old is going to be that much better than a 20-21 year old because of maturity and physical development, I guess you go there.
Cornell and Yale are preseason top 10 teams (I know how little this means), but have only 1 player each in the top 50? I have not examined who was left off the list that should be there and who is on the list that should not, but the numbers don't make sense to me unless the Ivies have a ton of players in the 51-100 ranking.
I’m a high velocity transfer world this is an interesting aspect. General relationship to institutions and frankly evaluating the level of contribution between organic and longer tenured player and “rentals”. The thing many wonder about and a few Rutgers fans get all insulted over as if it not a interesting and important question to ask.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:51 amDo you count transfers Jake Stevens (Princeton), Sam English (Princeton), Alex Vardaro (Princeton) as Ivy League players?Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:40 am According to this list, the top talent gap between the ACC/B10 and the Ivies is massive. Ivies have 5 players in the top 50. The ACC has 18 and the B10 17. I'm not sure I buy that.
How many players on this list are grad transfers? That seems to be a major criteria for some on the list. If you believe that a 23 year old is going to be that much better than a 20-21 year old because of maturity and physical development, I guess you go there.
Cornell and Yale are preseason top 10 teams (I know how little this means), but have only 1 player each in the top 50? I have not examined who was left off the list that should be there and who is on the list that should not, but the numbers don't make sense to me unless the Ivies have a ton of players in the 51-100 ranking.
No, what you are doing is cherry picking and you are being disingenuous with what I said.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:11 amDid they discount Brennan O'Neill's 7 points against Bellarmine, or his 9 points against Merrimack? He only had 3 points in two games against Notre Dame. You can cherry pick any statistic. McAdorey is ranked pretty high as a attackman who had 2 goals and 2 assists in five games against Syracuse, UNC, Virginia, Penn State and Notre Dame. See how cherry picking works?Powellfan22 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:11 amContrarian point of view is that Ward put up a lot of his points against subpar competition. He scored 10 points against Hampton, eight against Mount Saint Mary's, seven against Marist. Against Hopkins and Duke and Michigan he combined for only seven points.Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:58 am Anyone who has a problem with Spallina on this list probably never watched him play. There are several players on this list that are a joke in my opinion. You probably know who they are and it’s not my place to badmouth anyone.
But not to belabor a point I made earlier, how do you leave a guy off this list that had 72 points (40 goals 32 assists) his first year starting in ‘22 (while scoring the winning goal over #2 Georgetown in the first round of NCAA) and had 85 points last year (42g 43a - the ONLY 40/40 player in d1) while leading the team to a second straight tournament?
157 points in two years is hard to ignore. IL writers have probably never seen him play a game. Which is surprising since he played his High School ball in their backyard at McDonogh. Hard to miss at 6’2” 210.
JP Ward is the quarterback of a very successful team and played great throughout the last two years. Ward had 3 g 2 a against Villanova, 2 g 1 a against Michigan, 4 g 2 a in the CAA championship game against Stony Brook. In '22 he had 4 goals against Duke, had 4 g 2 a against Villanova went 4 g 4 a against Drexel in the CAA tourney and scored the winning goal against Georgetown in the NCAA tourney. He is arguably better than at least 5 guys on this list.
And BTW, saying he ONLY had 7 points in three games against Duke, Michigan and Hopkins is not really a terrible stat.
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 am I actually think Melendez at #42 or whatever is appropriate. From a pure *talent* perspective I think he's top 10-20 but because of the Hopkins offense/his role, he's not going to put massive point totals over the course of an entire season, and probably maxes out as a 3rd team AA. Angelus directs things from X and there's a crowd of shooters/finishers in Degnon, Collison, Grimes, etc., so he's not asked to carry the load. It will be interesting to see how he evolves in 2025 after Angelus leaves — he'll probably be needed to do a lot more and we could see his point totals jump from 50-60 to 70-80 or so.
IL dropped its top 10 — Boehm and Vardaro are in. Lyons, Zawada, and Cole are not. Not sure how Princeton went 8-7 with a 1st round exit with two top 10 players in Mackesy and Vardaro and then a swath of other top 50 guys in Pederson, Gianforcaro, Stevens, English, etc. Seems like that group as a whole is probably a bit overrated, otherwise they really screwed the pooch last year because that is championship caliber talent equal to or better than Duke/ND. I know English missed the end of the year, but sheesh. That's a disappointing result for having all those dudes.
Like anything associated with IL, it’s ranking inflation. Also, I believe it’s a forward look versus a backward look. As much as I like Vardaro, he’s not a top 10 player. Where were these players on the 2023 post season AA list? Chris Lyons not being on this top 50 list is just stupid but probably due to Yale slipping a little as a team because of course, if the team does well, the players are all better…..as for the Princeton exit. Lack of a productive zone offense costs them….not necessarily a lack of quality players.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 am I actually think Melendez at #42 or whatever is appropriate. From a pure *talent* perspective I think he's top 10-20 but because of the Hopkins offense/his role, he's not going to put massive point totals over the course of an entire season, and probably maxes out as a 3rd team AA. Angelus directs things from X and there's a crowd of shooters/finishers in Degnon, Collison, Grimes, etc., so he's not asked to carry the load. It will be interesting to see how he evolves in 2025 after Angelus leaves — he'll probably be needed to do a lot more and we could see his point totals jump from 50-60 to 70-80 or so.
IL dropped its top 10 — Boehm and Vardaro are in. Lyons, Zawada, and Cole are not. Not sure how Princeton went 8-7 with a 1st round exit with two top 10 players in Mackesy and Vardaro and then a swath of other top 50 guys in Pederson, Gianforcaro, Stevens, English, etc. Seems like that group as a whole is probably a bit overrated, otherwise they really screwed the pooch last year because that is championship caliber talent equal to or better than Duke/ND. I know English missed the end of the year, but sheesh. That's a disappointing result for having all those dudes.