Preseason Top 10

[Typical Lax Dad]

Duke will start to play up to their potential.
Harvard will pass Yale in the Ivy pecking order.
OSU and Syracuse just outside the top 10.

So, Duke's potential the last 8 years has been national championships, no? There's no reason, again, why they can't do it next year, certainly not based on the recruiting rankings. But why is 2023 the year they start to play up to their potential? They've had the all-time generational recruit for the past 2 seasons, plus a multi-year all american, another national #1 recruit and numerous other superstars.

And not sure what pecking order means, but Harvard lacrosse isn't close to Yale lacrosse. Yale has a decade of proven greatness...Harvard beat one schizophrenic team last season and finished 8-5. That's a bad season by any good lacrosse program's standard's, and Yale's standard is much higher than good.

I probably wasn’t clear, but I was really looking at the 2023 season versus 2022. After all, we’re talking preseason predictions of the year to come, not a comparison of programs. So from that perspective Duke obviously underperformed in 2022. And I believe Danowski will right the ship in 2023. Same context for the “pecking order” comment; Yale has been the most successful Ivy program the last seven years or so, but I believe Harvard has a chance to be better than them in 2023, with that great young core of theirs.

Yale will be a tougher out next year versus this year.

[The Orfling]

Duke will start to play up to their potential.
Harvard will pass Yale in the Ivy pecking order.
OSU and Syracuse just outside the top 10.

So, Duke's potential the last 8 years has been national championships, no? There's no reason, again, why they can't do it next year, certainly not based on the recruiting rankings. But why is 2023 the year they start to play up to their potential? They've had the all-time generational recruit for the past 2 seasons, plus a multi-year all american, another national #1 recruit and numerous other superstars.

And not sure what pecking order means, but Harvard lacrosse isn't close to Yale lacrosse. Yale has a decade of proven greatness...Harvard beat one schizophrenic team last season and finished 8-5. That's a bad season by any good lacrosse program's standard's, and Yale's standard is much higher than good.

A decade of greatness is an exaggeration but I know what you mean. Harvard has to climb over Cornell, Penn, Brown and Princeton before overtaking Yale.

I have enormous respect for Gerry Byrne, and Yale still needs to figure itself out defensively, so I wouldn't be shocked if Harvard finished ahead of Yale next season; however, I don't think it's likely quite yet. Yale comes in with pretty solid situations in goal with Paquette and at the face-off X (led by Ramsey with Ball and Rodriguez making good contributions), and the attack unit should be loaded for bear with Matt Brandau, Chris Lyons, and Leo Johnson all returning. The offensive midfield, even with the loss of Tevlin, should be pretty good (Brad Sharp came on so strong over the season), and Thomas Bragg is a weapon like no other on the extra man offense. This is nothing earthshaking, but Yale will probably go as far as the rope unit and settled defense can take them -- tough, maybe, to make big strides in a year in which they will have lost Chris Fake to graduation but not impossible.

I don't know Harvard's roster all that well (maybe MDlaxfan76 or another Crimson watcher can help us out) but they've got five of their top point scorers returning, including Sam King who is the real deal, so the very real loss of Madronic should be something the Crimson can weather. Gerry Byrne coached a young defense to close to a top 20 defensive efficiency mark (compared to Yale's #49, ouch!), and it seems like the poles and top LSMs are all returning (including 1st team All-Ivy honoree Campisi, a big difference maker at LSM) and they've got a really good young shortie in Yager, also returning. The big question marks would seem to be in goal, with Mullin graduating and taking his talents to South (Jersey) -- old time LeBron reference! -- and at FOGO.

[Dip&Dunk]

Lots of status quo in this list. Wondering why at least one of the teams that had above average years are not included on this list? Jax? Richmond? Delaware? BU? Rutgers? Army? St. Joe? I am not a fan of any of these so I cannot talk about grads/freshman/portal/coaches etc. but each is on an upward trend.

[HopFan16]

Lots of status quo in this list. Wondering why at least one of the teams that had above average years are not included on this list? Jax? Richmond? Delaware? BU? Rutgers? Army? St. Joe? I am not a fan of any of these so I cannot talk about grads/freshman/portal/coaches etc. but each is on an upward trend.

Army sans Nichtern probably takes a step back

Delaware deserves some consideration for top 10 though I think I'd have them just outside

[Houndfan73]

1. Notre Dame
2. Notre Dame
3. Notre Dame
4. UVA
5. Duke
6. NC
7. Syracuse
8.
9.
10.

How’s that look Carc?

even if the domers finish 1-3, it won't undo the damage in future years to teams getting dropped haphazardly.

if we go back to the old 1970's era hoops nc$$ tourney look, maybe we can move past all this.

the acc can grab a patsy from another conference, which it seems will make many happy. 2 birds with one stone. they better do it quick, tho, before the acc is a dodo.

Notre Dame wuz robbed!! They beat Duke!!

twice!!!

Notre Dame wuz robbed!! They were better than one competitive school on its schedule!

u may have missed the part where that gets you better than a six seed now.

r
what's humorous in all the anti Notre Dame posts( and I despise the Domers) is are there any Notre Dame Lax fans even on this thread?? The Big 10 crowd are generally supportive of each other, but there is only one Goliath in that conference. then everyone else. The ACC schools are somewhat similar and recruit mostly against each other, but there is no love lost amongst those rival fans. I will admit that I like Breschi because I think he does less with more and hope UNC keeps him forever.

“ there is only one Goliath in that conference. then everyone else. ”

I’m cool with that statement as long as it’s understood that the “Goliath” would have been a “Goliath” in the ACC as well. The next two BigTen teams were as good or better than all of the ACC teams last year.

[blue angels]

1. Notre Dame
2. Notre Dame
3. Notre Dame
4. UVA
5. Duke
6. NC
7. Syracuse
8.
9.
10.

How’s that look Carc?

even if the domers finish 1-3, it won't undo the damage in future years to teams getting dropped haphazardly.

if we go back to the old 1970's era hoops nc$$ tourney look, maybe we can move past all this.

the acc can grab a patsy from another conference, which it seems will make many happy. 2 birds with one stone. they better do it quick, tho, before the acc is a dodo.

Notre Dame wuz robbed!! They beat Duke!!

twice!!!

Notre Dame wuz robbed!! They were better than one competitive school on its schedule!

u may have missed the part where that gets you better than a six seed now.

r
what's humorous in all the anti Notre Dame posts( and I despise the Domers) is are there any Notre Dame Lax fans even on this thread?? The Big 10 crowd are generally supportive of each other, but there is only one Goliath in that conference. then everyone else. The ACC schools are somewhat similar and recruit mostly against each other, but there is no love lost amongst those rival fans. I will admit that I like Breschi because I think he does less with more and hope UNC keeps him forever.

“ there is only one Goliath in that conference. then everyone else. ”

I’m cool with that statement as long as it’s understood that the “Goliath” would have been a “Goliath” in the ACC as well. The next two BigTen teams were as good or better than all of the ACC teams last year.

Agree that last year Maryland was in a class all their own. They proved it. The rest of your statement sounds like a lot of wishing and hoping. They didn’t all play so who knows. It’s myopic nonsense to claim otherwise……you appear to have some chip about the ACC. Hope you can get over it for your own health………

[MoralTerpitude]

I'm admittedly anti-ACC. But objectively, Ohio State did beat both Notre Dame and UNC. Understanding that Maryland is not part of the discussion, they did still go 4-0 against the ACC, and beat the ACC champs by an average of 10 goals a game at neutral sites. They only beat OSU by 7 goals at home, in one of their most competitive games of the year. And Rutgers of course made the Final Four, and was definitively better than OSU.

So to say that OSU and Rutgers were as good or better than all of the ACC teams is in my opinion a reasonable, if unprovable, statement.

[Farfromgeneva]

I'm admittedly anti-ACC. But objectively, Ohio State did beat both Notre Dame and UNC. Understanding that Maryland is not part of the discussion, they did still go 4-0 against the ACC, and beat the ACC champs by an average of 10 goals a game at neutral sites. They only beat OSU by 7 goals at home, in one of their most competitive games of the year. And Rutgers of course made the Final Four, and was definitively better than OSU.

So to say that OSU and Rutgers were as good or better than all of the ACC teams is in my opinion a reasonable, if unprovable, statement.

Forget Cuse in 22 but what about OSU v Duke/UVA? Heck even Rutgers given matchups dictate outcomes almost as often as overall talent level.

And the statement sort of implies longer term vs a 1yr potential anomaly. Thing is the bottom 2-3 in the Big Ten for most of their existence was not nearly on or with the bottom 2-3 in the ACC. This reeks like the year Md beat OSU in the finals and Bug Ten people immediately and without any seasoning were declaring how the Bug Ten changed college lacrosse and the rest wouldn’t be able to keep up. Hate defending the elite in general but I don’t see nearly as much ACC chest thumping and statement bombing either in general or especially in short run immediate analysis that’s totally slave to yesterday. It still feels like chip on shoulder stuff but it hilarious to the rest of us who aren’t with either conference (if conference even matter, it hugging conference since like, 2007-2010 or so, is dumb and always was when considering it’s people trying to bathe in the success of their supposed rivals) because it’s so heavily skewed towards whining about the ACC then crowing when relative success swings.

[Henpecked]

Lots of status quo in this list. Wondering why at least one of the teams that had above average years are not included on this list? Jax? Richmond? Delaware? BU? Rutgers? Army? St. Joe? I am not a fan of any of these so I cannot talk about grads/freshman/portal/coaches etc. but each is on an upward trend.

Army sans Nichtern probably takes a step back

Delaware deserves some consideration for top 10 though I think I'd have them just outside

I don’t like picking top 10 teams this early. But I do know something about Delaware. They’re coming off a 13-6 season losing by 2 goals in the quarterfinals to Cornell 10-8. They are returning all but one player (mark Beida) and that includes 2nd team All American Owen Grant at defense and the entire starting attack including Mike Robinson 53goals 15 assists, Tye Kurtz 52 goals 15 assists and JP Ward 40 goals and 32 assists. Not sure there is another starting attack in the country returning 207 total points. I couldn’t find one.

They should be pretty good. Top 10? I don’t know enough about the other teams to say for sure.

[jrn19]

I'm admittedly anti-ACC. But objectively, Ohio State did beat both Notre Dame and UNC. Understanding that Maryland is not part of the discussion, they did still go 4-0 against the ACC, and beat the ACC champs by an average of 10 goals a game at neutral sites. They only beat OSU by 7 goals at home, in one of their most competitive games of the year. And Rutgers of course made the Final Four, and was definitively better than OSU.

So to say that OSU and Rutgers were as good or better than all of the ACC teams is in my opinion a reasonable, if unprovable, statement.

Forget Cuse in 22 but what about OSU v Duke/UVA? Heck even Rutgers given matchups dictate outcomes almost as often as overall talent level.

And the statement sort of implies longer term vs a 1yr potential anomaly. Thing is the bottom 2-3 in the Big Ten for most of their existence was not nearly on or with the bottom 2-3 in the ACC. This reeks like the year Md beat OSU in the finals and Bug Ten people immediately and without any seasoning were declaring how the Bug Ten changed college lacrosse and the rest wouldn’t be able to keep up. Hate defending the elite in general but I don’t see nearly as much ACC chest thumping and statement bombing either in general or especially in short run immediate analysis that’s totally slave to yesterday. It still feels like chip on shoulder stuff but it hilarious to the rest of us who aren’t with either conference (if conference even matter, it hugging conference since like, 2007-2010 or so, is dumb and always was when considering it’s people trying to bathe in the success of their supposed rivals) because it’s so heavily skewed towards whining about the ACC then crowing when relative success swings.

Maybe if Duke and Notre Dame had made the tournament we could have found out!

[FannOLax]

... Not sure there is another starting attack in the country returning 207 total points. I couldn’t find one.

Yale's starting attack returns 211 total points (Brandau 57 G 42 A; Johnson 35/29; Lyons 36/12).

[10stone5]

... Not sure there is another starting attack in the country returning 207 total points. I couldn’t find one. (re: Delaware)

Yale's starting attack returns 211 total points (Brandau 57 G 42 A; Johnson 35/29; Lyons 36/12).

Those are two tremendous offenses and why, in the case of Yale
you have to consider them a favorite in the Ivy League.

As far as Delaware, a lot will depend on DeLuca’s scheduling, here’s betting he pushes hard this year for a difficult schedule.

[FannOLax]

... Not sure there is another starting attack in the country returning 207 total points. I couldn’t find one. (re: Delaware)

Yale's starting attack returns 211 total points (Brandau 57 G 42 A; Johnson 35/29; Lyons 36/12).

Those are two tremendous offenses and why, in the case of Yale
you have to consider them a favorite in the Ivy League.

As far as Delaware, a lot will depend on DeLuca’s scheduling, here’s betting he pushes hard this year for a difficult schedule.

It looks like Yale's offense will be potent, with plenty of midfield talent to go with an attack line vaguely reminiscent of 2018. However, there are several questions about the defense; how well these questions are answered could determine how deep into May the Elis play.

[1766]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

[blue angels]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Shocker, Joey, you didn’t put Rutgers and OSU in your top 5…………

[lorin]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Shocker, Joey, you didn’t put Rutgers and OSU in your top 5…………

Back to 2019 for Rutgers.

[HopFan16]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Shocker, Joey, you didn’t put Rutgers and OSU in your top 5…………

but he did put them ahead of a princeton team that destroyed them last year and brings back more talent and production

[Laxfanatic2022]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Explain to me how you have Yale at 2 and Penn not even in the top 10. This is outrageous

[HGK]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Explain to me how you have Yale at 2 and Penn not even in the top 10. This is outrageous

Not any Ivy league alum but would say Yale too high, Cornell maybe a slot too low, Princeton probably 3-4 too low, Penn clearly top 10 and Harvard probably not preseason top 10 but a team I think could be very dangerous. Dartmouth also on the rise but not in this conversation. Again just opinion with no axe.

[10stone5]

1. Maryland
2. Yale
3. Georgetown
4. Cornell
5. Notre Dame
6. Virginia
7. Duke
8. Ohio St.
9. Rutgers
10. Princeton

Explain to me how you have Yale at 2 and Penn not even in the top 10. This is outrageous

Not any Ivy league alum but would say Yale too high, Cornell maybe a slot too low, Princeton probably 3-4 too low, Penn clearly top 10 and Harvard probably not preseason top 10 but a team I think could be very dangerous. Dartmouth also on the rise but not in this conversation. Again just opinion with no axe.

Way way too early, but this post has some good assumptions.

Interesting to me, how much of this conversation is about the
Ivy teams - so no significant drop off amongst the Ivies this
upcoming season, yes ?