LaxPower Back-Up Stick

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:31 pm haha, you guys are just trolling a fan at this point.

Yup. Here's just three strikes against Michigan, off the top of my head....

1. kids who don't want to be that far from home
2. kids who don't want to get lost in an enormous student body
3. they're a program that isn't winning

And that's just off the top of my head. There are gamers who won't look at Michigan just based on one of those three. Now obviously you can play this game with many schools...but the "UMIch recruits itself" is plain wrong. Nope. It doesn't. They have to fight for players just like everyone else. And they are losing the battle if the goal is to make the NCAA's.

It's the school, not the coach. IMHO Conry will figure it out, and luck into a couple of gamers, and get the momentum going. He needs time.

The one place they have a massive advantage? Grad schools and the transfer portal. There aren't many grad programs at UMich that aren't top 10. Name the major....UMich excels at it. That could be a big help in the long term

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:22 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

Yes. But I followed that with "Michigan doesn't sell itself", didn't I? Michigan has been recruiting very well for sometime. And kudos to Coaches Paul and Conry for that. But all excuses are either invalid or running out of validity right now.

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:28 am

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:31 pm haha, you guys are just trolling a fan at this point.

Yup. Here's just three strikes against Michigan, off the top of my head....

1. kids who don't want to be that far from home
2. kids who don't want to get lost in an enormous student body
3. they're a program that isn't winning

And that's just off the top of my head. There are gamers who won't look at Michigan just based on one of those three. Now obviously you can play this game with many schools...but the "UMIch recruits itself" is plain wrong. Nope. It doesn't. They have to fight for players just like everyone else. And they are losing the battle if the goal is to make the NCAA's.

It's the school, not the coach. IMHO Conry will figure it out, and luck into a couple of gamers, and get the momentum going. He needs time.

The one place they have a massive advantage? Grad schools and the transfer portal. There aren't many grad programs at UMich that aren't top 10. Name the major....UMich excels at it. That could be a big help in the long term

Strikes one and two apply just as much at Ohio State. And the Buckeyes, more often than not, have been okay.

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:28 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:22 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

Yes. But I followed that with "Michigan doesn't sell itself", didn't I? Michigan has been recruiting very well for sometime. And kudos to Coaches Paul and Conry for that. But all excuses are either invalid or running out of validity right now.

From YOUR perspective. The AD clearly disagrees. As do I. Your expectations are entirely arbitrary....invented whole cloth.

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:00 pm

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:28 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:22 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

Yes. But I followed that with "Michigan doesn't sell itself", didn't I? Michigan has been recruiting very well for sometime. And kudos to Coaches Paul and Conry for that. But all excuses are either invalid or running out of validity right now.

From YOUR perspective. The AD clearly disagrees. As do I. Your expectations are entirely arbitrary....invented whole cloth.

Well, that is fine. However, how much more time would you be willing to give Conry to finish in the Top Four of the Big Ten and get at least ten wins? I honestly hope not much more than 2-3 more seasons.

How are you not tired of having the same exact conversation for what feels like the 10th time in the last year alone

Michigan lax conversation has become a bore. So let's concede the great recruiting (if you say so). A great coach once said, "you are what your record says you are".

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:01 pm How are you not tired of having the same exact conversation for what feels like the 10th time in the last year alone

Yes, I will admit that it is getting a little tedious and boring. As someone who plays a big part in these conversations, I definitely hope that we will have new and better things to talk about regarding Michigan Lacrosse very, very soon. And hopefully, that will be in 2023. The Wolverines will be much more experienced.

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:38 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:00 pm

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:28 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:22 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

Yes. But I followed that with "Michigan doesn't sell itself", didn't I? Michigan has been recruiting very well for sometime. And kudos to Coaches Paul and Conry for that. But all excuses are either invalid or running out of validity right now.

From YOUR perspective. The AD clearly disagrees. As do I. Your expectations are entirely arbitrary....invented whole cloth.

Well, that is fine. However, how much more time would you be willing to give Conry to finish in the Top Four of the Big Ten and get at least ten wins? I honestly hope not much more than 2-3 more seasons.

It’s going to be tough. Michigan’s issue is coaching. If they can land an upgrade to Turri they may have a chance. They have a lot of experience on D and can return all their seniors from last season. Rogalski will provide a workable baseline on defense. They just need to be able to produce offensively—it seemed last season they got started too late offensively in every conference game.

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:18 am It’s going to be tough. Michigan’s issue is coaching.

What makes you say that? I've yet to a starting lineup at UMich that is better than Rutgers, UMd, O State, etc.

To my eyes, it's not a close call.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:01 pm How are you not tired of having the same exact conversation for what feels like the 10th time in the last year alone

Only 10th?

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:06 am

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:18 am It’s going to be tough. Michigan’s issue is coaching.

What makes you say that? I've yet to a starting lineup at UMich that is better than Rutgers, UMd, O State, etc.

To my eyes, it's not a close call.

That’s on the coach. He’s running the program. There have been and are some really fine players in Ann Arbor. The recruits aren’t that different from others in the league. Frankly, they’ve had better classes than a number of their in league competition. The problem is when you have a staff that is significantly below others in the league, the decisions are … significantly below others in the league. They’ve recruited players because the degree is the best in the league (on par with Hop, but a massively bigger alumni network). But now they are essentially a HC without success and the next stop for former Lafayette assistants. So it’s clearly not a player issue (to my eyes).

I don't remotely have a dog in this hunt, but what particular sorts of "decisions" are getting made by the coach(es) that are substandard?

Recruiting is often a decision between potential players to offer, order of offer etc...you don't get all your preferred choices, but there's always an alternative.

Coaches decide who to play, who sits, and at which position.

Coaches decide when and how to run practices, what to emphasize, etc.

They decide tactics that take advantage of their team's strengths, counter their opponents' strengths, and exploit their opponents' weaknesses.

I could go on and on.

That said, you need the horsepower, both the skill sets and the leadership, to come from the players...

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:18 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:38 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:00 pm

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:28 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:22 am

gymman1031 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:51 am Michigan has a lot to offer. .

This is the part you keep forgetting: so does every School in the top 20.

Yes. But I followed that with "Michigan doesn't sell itself", didn't I? Michigan has been recruiting very well for sometime. And kudos to Coaches Paul and Conry for that. But all excuses are either invalid or running out of validity right now.

From YOUR perspective. The AD clearly disagrees. As do I. Your expectations are entirely arbitrary....invented whole cloth.

Well, that is fine. However, how much more time would you be willing to give Conry to finish in the Top Four of the Big Ten and get at least ten wins? I honestly hope not much more than 2-3 more seasons.

It’s going to be tough. Michigan’s issue is coaching. If they can land an upgrade to Turri they may have a chance. They have a lot of experience on D and can return all their seniors from last season. Rogalski will provide a workable baseline on defense. They just need to be able to produce offensively—it seemed last season they got started too late offensively in every conference game.

I think that Bieda is a great hire and, if allowed, will use all of the talents of the offensive players there.

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm That’s on the coach. He’s running the program. There have been and are some really fine players in Ann Arbor. The recruits aren’t that different from others in the league.

Fine players, sure. But you can say that about most D1 programs.

Name an elite player on UMich's roster.

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm Frankly, they’ve had better classes than a number of their in league competition. The problem is when you have a staff that is significantly below others in the league, the decisions are … significantly below others in the league.

Unless I'm misunderstanding.........you think coaching, not players, is what gets teams to Final Fours.

So who's your "can't miss" list of D1 coaches that should be coaching at Michigan?

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:25 pm

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm That’s on the coach. He’s running the program. There have been and are some really fine players in Ann Arbor. The recruits aren’t that different from others in the league.

Fine players, sure. But you can say that about most D1 programs.

Name an elite player on UMich's roster.

LongIslandLacks wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm Frankly, they’ve had better classes than a number of their in league competition. The problem is when you have a staff that is significantly below others in the league, the decisions are … significantly below others in the league.

Unless I'm misunderstanding.........you think coaching, not players, is what gets teams to Final Fours.

So who's your "can't miss" list of D1 coaches that should be coaching at Michigan?

you are purposely asking each of these guys why it's coaching. knowing the answer you'll get is "they have better talent so it's coaching".

i have to say, i'm here for it.

Looking at recruiting rankings in lacrosse and then thinking a team is getting better players can be a mistake. Rankings are at best an “ok” indicator of talent and in most cases are biased and skewed. After about the top 20 guys in a ranking, the next 150 are almost the same. I’d argue a player ranked 50 has the same success rate or chance to be an impact D1 player as a kid ranked 150. Problem is fans don’t get that or want to admit that’s the case. Rankings are flawed.

Michigan has pulled solid talent. Guess what, PSU, Hop, OSU, RU, and MD also get talent. The Big Ten is a tough conference to compete in. Maryland is a long term power, National Champion and regular championship weekend participant. But look at the other competitors….Rutgers was in the final four this year and quarters last year, PSU was in championship weekend in 2019, Ohio St was in the finals in 2017, and Hopkins has championship weekend pedigree. The conference is tough

UM didn’t win a conference game last year. They gotta pick it up fast. Somehow, someway. No sense arguing about coaching or talent. Both need to be better. They need to win more quality games…they didn’t do that in 2022. This year was actually a step backward if you’re really looking at it through clear glasses.

As a side when it comes to recruiting, UM has let some really really good players get out of state to go out east the last 3-5 years…I mean guys that went on to start or star as freshman at much better programs than Michigan. The good news is it looks like UM is starting to keep some of the best in state kids home…that’s not the only cure to their issues, but I think it can help

UM has great facilities, a great brand, it’s a very good school (although I’d argue so are all big ten schools, Ivy’s, and top ACC schools)…so they should be able to get kids…but a good school and mega brand doesn’t guarantee wins.

They just gotta find the recipe to start winning quality games

Maybe they turn a corner in 2023…but until they do it and prove it, I have them ranked last in the conference in 2023…see what happens

They need to win more quality games…they didn’t do that in 2022.

Delaware.
The Blue Hens.

Michigan’s best game of the year.

Laxfan#1969 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:42 pm …but a good school and mega brand doesn’t guarantee wins.

+1