LaxPower Back-Up Stick

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:05 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:36 pm

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:13 pm

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:33 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:31 am That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

Ultimately, woulda-coulda-shoulda’s fit into the category of “losers lament”. Though the points may be valid, they’re sour grapes once the win or loss goes down in the books.

Haha I'm not lamenting or whining about the Northwestern loss at all. I just wholeheartedly disagree with any notion that Northwestern is the better team in comparison to Syracuse.

In regards to the Northwestern loss, I don’t consider a three-goal lead late in the fourth with more than three minutes to go substantial, especially against that offense. Plus, I remember watching that game. Syracuse choked that one away. They deserved to lose that game. So Northwestern earned that win. No asterisks involved.

I also beg to differ on the Loyola game. A 5 goal lead with 13 minutes to go in the 4th quarter is not substantial, at least not in my book, and not against Loyola with all their offensive weapons.

The very fact that Syracuse has lost their composure down the stretch in more than one game this season is one of the reasons I don’t put them in the same tier with Northwestern.

You wrote: “I’m saying it’s incorrect to have Northwestern in a group of their own. I would put Cuse, Northwestern, Loyola, Stony Brook, and Duke all in the same tier.”

And I’m sure you would get an argument from somebody for putting Cuse, Northwestern, Loyola and Stony Brook in the same tier as Duke. And still others would argue that another team belongs there or doesn’t. That’s why I encouraged you to make your own tier. Northwestern being in tier 2 by themselves is my opinion, pure and simple. It isn’t right, wrong or disingenuous. Polls are subjective. Tiers are subjective. And to a certain degree so is the RPI/SOS analytic because some nerd set up the parameters subjectively.

Also, I was careful to make the losers lament a general statement. I am not directing it at you. However, when anybody engages in woulda-coulda-shoulda after a controversial loss, I put it into the general bin of losers lament because that’s exactly what it is. Nobody wants to hear it, except fans of the losing team commiserating with each other.

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:42 pm So you consider the Northwestern game a colossal choke job by Syracuse, but not the Loyola one? Got it. I seem to recall you stating as that game was happening that "Loyola couldn't run with Syracuse" or something to that effect. You seemed to very much think that a 5 goal lead at that time was substantial enough.

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:05 pm
In regards to the Northwestern loss, I don’t consider a three-goal lead late in the fourth with more than three minutes to go substantial, especially against that offense. Plus, I remember watching that game. Syracuse choked that one away. They deserved to lose that game. So Northwestern earned that win. No asterisks involved.

I also beg to differ on the Loyola game. A 5 goal lead with 13 minutes to go in the 4th quarter is not substantial, at least not in my book, and not against Loyola with all their offensive weapons.

The very fact that Syracuse has lost their composure down the stretch in more than one game this season is one of the reasons I don’t put them in the same tier with Northwestern.

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:47 pm Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola, Denver, JMU

Tier 3 - Florida, Duke, Maryland, Princeton

Tier 4 - Stanford, USC, Colorado, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:57 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:47 pm Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola, Denver, JMU

Tier 3 - Florida, Duke, Maryland, Princeton

Tier 4 - Stanford, USC, Colorado, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

Okay, don't like either team in Tier 1(much respect to Taylor Moreno and Charlotte North), Tier 2 is solid with the exception of JMU (I would put them on Tier 3), Tier 3 again is good but Maryland is Tier 2 and Princeton should be Tier 4 IMO.

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:57 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:47 pm Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola, Denver, JMU

Tier 3 - Florida, Duke, Maryland, Princeton

Tier 4 - Stanford, USC, Colorado, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

Okay, don't like either team in Tier 1(much respect to Taylor Moreno and Charlotte North), Tier 2 is solid with the exception of JMU (I would put them on Tier 3), Tier 3 again is good but Maryland is Tier 2 and Princeton should be Tier 4 IMO.

Justalaxdad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:21 am Arizona St. is the only Pac10 team that should get some consideration for any top 25 ties.

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:54 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

They seemed to play pretty well even without all those injured players against the undisputed #1 team in the country. No way all those teams in your tier 2 should be considered better than Syracuse -- especially considering they beat half of them.

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:54 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

They seemed to play pretty well even without all those injured players against the undisputed #1 team in the country. No way all those teams in your tier 2 should be considered better than Syracuse -- especially considering they beat half of them.

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:57 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:54 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

They seemed to play pretty well even without all those injured players against the undisputed #1 team in the country. No way all those teams in your tier 2 should be considered better than Syracuse -- especially considering they beat half of them.

Also too, I included a qualifier. “I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better.” Of course, we won’t see that till the last game of the regular season, and in the following ACC tourney. I may be proved utterly wrong. Won’t be the first or last time.

In addition, I don’t think Carolina played their best game vs Syracuse. I felt they were tentative some of the time. But I also felt they were obviously the superior team and the final score didn’t reflect that.

In any event, I invite those who find issues with my tiers, (and I have no problem with that whatsoever) to post their own tiers for the sake of discussion; for dissection and analysis. Because after all, we’ve got to occupy our time between big games, right?

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:10 pm

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:57 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:54 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

They seemed to play pretty well even without all those injured players against the undisputed #1 team in the country. No way all those teams in your tier 2 should be considered better than Syracuse -- especially considering they beat half of them.

Also too, I included a qualifier. “I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better.” Of course, we won’t see that till the last game of the regular season, and in the following ACC tourney. I may be proved utterly wrong. Won’t be the first or last time.

In addition, I don’t think Carolina played their best game vs Syracuse. I felt they were tentative some of the time. But I also felt they were obviously the superior team and the final score didn’t reflect that.

In any event, I invite those who find issues with my tiers, (and I have no problem with that whatsoever) to post their own tiers for the sake of discussion; for dissection and analysis. Because after all, we’ve got to occupy our time between big games, right?

The stats between the two teams were nearly identical. The game was a one goal game for the vast majority of it. The only real run UNC had was in that third quarter that SU definitely aided and abetted UNC with, with SU very lackadaisically turning it over on 2 very important possessions (the draw control and clear) which resulted in UNC goals. So I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that UNC was the “obviously superior team” when all evidence points to the contrary.

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:22 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:10 pm

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:57 pm

laxer12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:54 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:41 am

Brownlax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:39 am

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:09 am Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern, Duke, Stony Brook, Maryland

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida

Tier 4 - Arizona St, Stanford, USC, Colorado, UMass, Virginia Tech, Yale, Ohio St, Virginia, Jacksonville

Tier 5 - The rest

I think Syracuse belongs in Tier 2.

Maybe so – post your tiers and we’ll compare notes.

I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better. There’s only so many injuries they will be able to absorb before it starts hurting them on the field.

They seemed to play pretty well even without all those injured players against the undisputed #1 team in the country. No way all those teams in your tier 2 should be considered better than Syracuse -- especially considering they beat half of them.

Also too, I included a qualifier. “I put Syracuse there because I think the rest of the year they will get worse, not better.” Of course, we won’t see that till the last game of the regular season, and in the following ACC tourney. I may be proved utterly wrong. Won’t be the first or last time.

In addition, I don’t think Carolina played their best game vs Syracuse. I felt they were tentative some of the time. But I also felt they were obviously the superior team and the final score didn’t reflect that.

In any event, I invite those who find issues with my tiers, (and I have no problem with that whatsoever) to post their own tiers for the sake of discussion; for dissection and analysis. Because after all, we’ve got to occupy our time between big games, right?

The stats between the two teams were nearly identical. The game was a one goal game for the vast majority of it. The only real run UNC had was in that third quarter that SU definitely aided and abetted UNC with, with SU very lackadaisically turning it over on 2 very important possessions (the draw control and clear) which resulted in UNC goals. So I’m not sure where you are getting the notion that UNC was the “obviously superior team” when all evidence points to the contrary.

I don’t think I have to tell you that numbers don’t always tell the full story. I felt Syracuse came out like gang busters and Carolina didn’t match their intensity for a while.

As I say, I may yet be proven wrong but that’s the way I see the rest of the year for the Orange. The injuries will take their toll and there will be a downturn. Placing them where I did is more anticipatory than current.

Post your tiers and we’ll contrast and compare.