Washington & Lee 2022

[Laxwizard]

All the NESCAC LAX players have fun, even without Greek life. I think what W&L offers them, in addition to fun, is a major in Business, or a minor in Entrepreneurship. Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, etc. don't have those programs (I guess a Business Bachelor of Science degree is not 'classically academic' enough for the NESCAC). Tufts does have Finance, but lets face it, Tufts is not really in the same conversation anyway. I don't know how many of the W&L LAX players are business majors, but I'm guessing it's more than half. These are all great schools and great LAX programs - beyond what 'feels' best for these kids I think they are pretty interchangeable. W&L isn't as conservative as you might think and the NESCACs aren't as 'woke' as you may believe. They all draw from the same pool, after all.

[smoova]

Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, etc. don't have those programs (I guess a Business Bachelor of Science degree is not 'classically academic' enough for the NESCAC).

This is true - IME a majority of lacrosse players at these schools major in Econ, which many parlay into careers in IB/PE/etc. Being "woke" isn't why Williams was dubbed the "West Point of Wall Street" ...

[MDlaxfan76]

I’d lean more to Can Opener’s view. I do believe that the typical NE laxer would be more politically aligned with students at W&L than they would an Amherst. I just get the sense that the NESCAC campuses are very “woke” as compared to W&L. I’m not sure your typical NE laxer subscribes to woke theology

well, that's certainly true, especially when you use the term "woke theology" to describe what you mean. Those who think that "wokeness" is a serious problem on northern campuses undoubtedly would be more "comfortable" where they can avoid it, or better yet, make fun of it in the frat basement. ;

I get that...avoid being challenged to move beyond one's bubble. Don't send your kid to college somewhere that challenges them that way...sheesh, they might become liberals...

I thought the reference was more to the regional proclivities than the degree of "wokeness"; for instance, there's a much, much higher chance of seeing a Confederate flag in the back of a pick-up truck in a convenience store or liquor store parking lot than one in say Medford, or Brunswick, or Amherst...or more rural akin to Lexington, eg Williamstown or Middlebury. Not that it can't happen in those northern towns, it's just that's it's a regular experience in the Lexington region.

If that's what is meant about "move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country", I guess that could indeed be considered broadening, challenging. Which would be a plus in my book, in that sense. But if it's just to be "more comfortable", because "lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable..." then I would say...really, that's a positive? For college?

Seriously, W&L is a fantastic destination for a bright, motivated kid. It was the single DIII school outside of the NESCAC's that was on my son's target list, and for very good reason. His older cousin had a terrific experience there, we visited with him multiple times, she had/has great friends, and the campus is quintessential "college". McCabe was great with him as well.

But, funny story, when we went for his actual college visit there, which was terrific in pretty much every respect, my wife was bubbling on about it in the car as we drove back towards Baltimore. But our son was quiet. I knew exactly the moment when they'd lost him. I said, "the bookstore, right?" He nodded... my wife asked what we were talking about...my son explained that when he saw the two mannequins with black tie outfits and the huge display of W&L vineyard vines ties, in so many colors...yes, many, many with lacrosse sticks (isn't that a good thing?)...he'd recoiled at how "preppy" it was; the whole campus had the same look and feel...this a kid who went to a prep school, wore khakis, blazer, tie, every day, pretty typically 'conservative' in his views; but his reaction was "too preppy".....so...when he went to an Ivy up north, my wife and I, both Dartmouth alums and rarely got out of jeans, much less I never wore a tux, etc, we warned him that he might want to take the secondhand tux he'd bought cheap for proms the year before...he didn't think he'd ever need it, but we insisted he keep it in the back of his closet just in case; sure enough (we'd done our homework on the club system), when he came back for Thanksgiving we asked him what he wanted for Xmas...he said another tux shirt...we asked why, had he spilled on his? No, it was just that sometimes the final club he was joining would have an event on Friday, and a women's club would have an event on Saturday...needed a clean shirt! We got quite the chuckle out of that.

Similar thing happened when we visited Brown, though the reverse...it was a Monday in August, school's not in session, Providence can be pretty dead that time of year, everyone at work or away...driving away, my wife was again talking about how surprisingly beautiful the buildings were, the tour was very good, their academic program very intriguing...but I knew my son had noticed the sole kid wearing a Brown shirt as we drove away, smoking a cigarette sitting on a wall...somehow that wasn't going to compete with the prior Saturday when we'd been in Cambridge, the whole city outside on the Charles, cafes full, great tour...and when we visited the athletic facilities, what was happening, but the world's U-19 women's field hockey games, the Australian girls, the Belgian girls...just couldn't compete with that up in Hanover!

Again, seriously, W&L is a really great school. And I actually suspect that you can find pretty close to same "woke" politics on campus as you'd find at most of the NESCAC's (yes, Amherst is pretty darn "woke", further out on that scale). My son looked hard at several of the NESCAC's and we certainly got the impression that there was an active, "comfortable" social scene that was plenty fun. For instance, my god daughter was a senior at Middlebury, captain of both field hockey and lacrosse, when we visited on a recruiting trip there, so we had a close up insight to that school. Certainly "granola" but there was no sense that it would be anything less than a fun place to study and play ball. Felt a lot like Hanover, just smaller. Very strong proportion of athletes to overall student body, like Dartmouth (and the Ivies generally).

I wouldn't particularly worry about a kid not getting challenged at W&L or any of these top schools to think beyond their own bubble...but if people really are going south because they want to avoid "woke theology", I guess I could be wrong.

My own feeling is that any kid lucky enough to get into any of these schools is darn fortunate to have that opportunity.

[Sidelinehorn!]

My own feeling is that any kid lucky enough to get into any of these schools is darn fortunate to have that opportunity.


Thank you for coming to my TED Talk....

[MDlaxfan76]

My own feeling is that any kid lucky enough to get into any of these schools is darn fortunate to have that opportunity.


Thank you for coming to my TED Talk....

BTW, if I'm not mistaken my great aunt, namesake to my mother, sister, and oldest niece (the W&L alum), was the belle of the ball at Fancy Dress two years running, up from New Orleans. That would have been the '20's I think.

My other niece went to UVA, where my dad had gone and played. Nephew went to Ole Miss...talk about southern!

ole miss.jpg (8.16 KiB) Viewed 3546 times

[LuvNPhillyLax]

Interesting - no battle of the ampersands (F&M) this year. potentially a casualty of the covid/travel issues? Anyone have the scoop on if this is permanent or temporary gap? Last year it was an issue with the centennial conference playing in conference only but W&L seem to be travelling to York and Gettysburg this year. Maybe it was F&M but i think they plan a southern road trip for spring break so IDK.

Will miss this if the annual battles are over.

Generals at Dips was the last game I attended in 2020. It was a complete whomping - we heard one of the Fummers exclaim at halftime "this is too easy".

Ignoring that drubbing, I selfishly want to see this series prevail. Great tradition.

[NJlxrdad]

Crazy cold day, and windy. F&M would not provide a locker room or any indoor shelter at half due to COVID, Gennies sat outside freezing their a$$e$ off.

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

Crazy cold day, and windy. F&M would not provide a locker room or any indoor shelter at half due to COVID, Gennies sat outside freezing their a$$e$ off.

W&L never got off the bus, half time conditions meant nothing it was already 8-1 at half , game set and match. F&M has owned W&L

[Can Opener]

W&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.

IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).

W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.

My niece went to W&L and had a wonderful experience and my son was recruited by McCabe; lots and lots to recommend the school.

But, seriously, you think that the political environment of Lexington is more attractive to the typical lax player, much less one from the Northeast, than any of the NESCAC's, including Amherst???

Boy, that's a new one to me.

I appreciate your comment and your longer reflection today, MD. You raise an interesting point about the balance between a school that's a good fit because you will find a lot of like-minded folks there and a school that will challenge you because there will be many viewpoints different from your own. I suppose in an ideal world we would all want to challenge ourselves often by getting outside our comfort zones. On the other hand, most humans choose to join a community or sub-group that shares its own ideals. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in my sampling of lacrosse players and parents over several decades, they are typically more comfortable in environments that celebrate athletic achievement, rah rah spirit, and practical vs. esoteric academic pursuits. I could argue that these families would benefit most from a more "woke" environment, but most will choose to hang out with a jury of their peers. As an old friend of mine likes to say, "Everyone driving faster than me on the highway is a lunatic and everyone driving slower is a loser."

I guess my main point is that if you did a poll of most New England prep school parents (the NESCAC feeders) and asked them where W&L ranks academically, most would place it at the bottom of the NESCAC list. (I realize that viewpoint is probably much different in the mid-Atlantic.) Once you correct that misperception and tell people the school has better weather, Greek life, remarkable lacrosse tradition, business majors, alumni business network, and (sorry) a slightly more conservative outlook, W&L should be at the top of the list for many/most NESCAC lacrosse recruits.

[NJlxrdad]

Crazy cold day, and windy. F&M would not provide a locker room or any indoor shelter at half due to COVID, Gennies sat outside freezing their a$$e$ off.

W&L never got off the bus, half time conditions meant nothing it was already 8-1 at half , game set and match. F&M has owned W&L

Agree, didn't mean to imply halftime changed the game. The Dips took it to the Gennies that day regardless

[InsiderRoll]

W&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.

IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).

W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.

My niece went to W&L and had a wonderful experience and my son was recruited by McCabe; lots and lots to recommend the school.

But, seriously, you think that the political environment of Lexington is more attractive to the typical lax player, much less one from the Northeast, than any of the NESCAC's, including Amherst???

Boy, that's a new one to me.

I appreciate your comment and your longer reflection today, MD. You raise an interesting point about the balance between a school that's a good fit because you will find a lot of like-minded folks there and a school that will challenge you because there will be many viewpoints different from your own. I suppose in an ideal world we would all want to challenge ourselves often by getting outside our comfort zones. On the other hand, most humans choose to join a community or sub-group that shares its own ideals. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in my sampling of lacrosse players and parents over several decades, they are typically more comfortable in environments that celebrate athletic achievement, rah rah spirit, and practical vs. esoteric academic pursuits. I could argue that these families would benefit most from a more "woke" environment, but most will choose to hang out with a jury of their peers. As an old friend of mine likes to say, "Everyone driving faster than me on the highway is a lunatic and everyone driving slower is a loser."

I guess my main point is that if you did a poll of most New England prep school parents (the NESCAC feeders) and asked them where W&L ranks academically, most would place it at the bottom of the NESCAC list. (I realize that viewpoint is probably much different in the mid-Atlantic.) Once you correct that misperception and tell people the school has better weather, Greek life, remarkable lacrosse tradition, business majors, alumni business network, and (sorry) a slightly more conservative outlook, W&L should be at the top of the list for many/most NESCAC lacrosse recruits.

I think it’s great to be challenged in a fair and thought provoking academic environment. However a small handful of NESCACs (1 in particular) has gotten beyond self righteous. It’s no longer being challenged when faculty say think this way or I’ll fail you. Some of those schools preach open mindedness and differences, until they disagree with you. Then your an evil white racist capitalist pig. It can be relentless at some of these places

[MDlaxfan76]

W&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.

IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).

W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.

My niece went to W&L and had a wonderful experience and my son was recruited by McCabe; lots and lots to recommend the school.

But, seriously, you think that the political environment of Lexington is more attractive to the typical lax player, much less one from the Northeast, than any of the NESCAC's, including Amherst???

Boy, that's a new one to me.

I appreciate your comment and your longer reflection today, MD. You raise an interesting point about the balance between a school that's a good fit because you will find a lot of like-minded folks there and a school that will challenge you because there will be many viewpoints different from your own. I suppose in an ideal world we would all want to challenge ourselves often by getting outside our comfort zones. On the other hand, most humans choose to join a community or sub-group that shares its own ideals. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in my sampling of lacrosse players and parents over several decades, they are typically more comfortable in environments that celebrate athletic achievement, rah rah spirit, and practical vs. esoteric academic pursuits. I could argue that these families would benefit most from a more "woke" environment, but most will choose to hang out with a jury of their peers. As an old friend of mine likes to say, "Everyone driving faster than me on the highway is a lunatic and everyone driving slower is a loser."

I guess my main point is that if you did a poll of most New England prep school parents (the NESCAC feeders) and asked them where W&L ranks academically, most would place it at the bottom of the NESCAC list. (I realize that viewpoint is probably much different in the mid-Atlantic.) Once you correct that misperception and tell people the school has better weather, Greek life, remarkable lacrosse tradition, business majors, alumni business network, and (sorry) a slightly more conservative outlook, W&L should be at the top of the list for many/most NESCAC lacrosse recruits.

I think it’s great to be challenged in a fair and thought provoking academic environment. However a small handful of NESCACs (1 in particular) has gotten beyond self righteous. It’s no longer being challenged when faculty say think this way or I’ll fail you. Some of those schools preach open mindedness and differences, until they disagree with you. Then your an evil white racist capitalist pig. It can be relentless at some of these places

I assume you mean Amherst; I don't have the direct insight to agree or disagree with that characterization, certainly it's possible that such has gotten that out of hand that ideological conformity is required simply to pass your courses or to have a decent interaction expectation with fellow students; of course, there's often the rogue professor who demands/rewards based upon ideological conformity or has it out for athletes in general or some such bias, or there's undoubtedly gonna be some sort of protest on the issue of the day, but you're saying it's all or most of the experience (I'd warn the same for some way out there evangelical schools and their reputations for ideological conformity)...but as I've heard some of those same charges applied to various Ivies, and I know it's a quite spurious claim about those, so let's just say I'm "from Missouri" on it...but it's clearly an issue at Amherst insofar as it has gotten attention in the lax community.

[MDlaxfan76]

W&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.

IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).

W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.

My niece went to W&L and had a wonderful experience and my son was recruited by McCabe; lots and lots to recommend the school.

But, seriously, you think that the political environment of Lexington is more attractive to the typical lax player, much less one from the Northeast, than any of the NESCAC's, including Amherst???

Boy, that's a new one to me.

I appreciate your comment and your longer reflection today, MD. You raise an interesting point about the balance between a school that's a good fit because you will find a lot of like-minded folks there and a school that will challenge you because there will be many viewpoints different from your own. I suppose in an ideal world we would all want to challenge ourselves often by getting outside our comfort zones. On the other hand, most humans choose to join a community or sub-group that shares its own ideals. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in my sampling of lacrosse players and parents over several decades, they are typically more comfortable in environments that celebrate athletic achievement, rah rah spirit, and practical vs. esoteric academic pursuits. I could argue that these families would benefit most from a more "woke" environment, but most will choose to hang out with a jury of their peers. As an old friend of mine likes to say, "Everyone driving faster than me on the highway is a lunatic and everyone driving slower is a loser."

I guess my main point is that if you did a poll of most New England prep school parents (the NESCAC feeders) and asked them where W&L ranks academically, most would place it at the bottom of the NESCAC list. (I realize that viewpoint is probably much different in the mid-Atlantic.) Once you correct that misperception and tell people the school has better weather, Greek life, remarkable lacrosse tradition, business majors, alumni business network, and (sorry) a slightly more conservative outlook, W&L should be at the top of the list for many/most NESCAC lacrosse recruits.

I mentioned this conversation to my son last evening over a beer and a burger at the Valley Inn, quintessential lax watering hole a couple minutes from our home here in Baltimore and he got a chuckle at the notion that lax parents and players skew conservative...he said, it's quite the opposite in his experience, though he says he couldn't recall any of his Harvard or Gilman or club team (in HS, Gilman, Calvert Hall, other MIAA...in college, UNC, UVA, Ohio State, Hopkins, Stevenson, etc), teammates ever expressing a partisan sort of political opinion...but all were, in his view, more likely in the 'anti-racist' camp than not, though that expression wasn't being used at the time and they all were entirely relaxed on gender issues, indeed they all were pretty "liberal" in such respects, probably much more so than their parents due to generational differences. He pointed out that in general the socioeconomic status of most lax players and their parents is considerably higher (more affluent, higher educated) than other major eg sports, football, basketball, baseball, etc. and such socioeconomic status is correlated, at least these days on social issues, with a more liberal than 'conservative' lean. Tax and fiscal policy maybe another matter!

But I do quite agree with the likelihood that the parents (and players) are more likely to appreciate and celebrate athletic accomplishment than non-athlete parents...no doubt. That said, if you're a parent or a kid who is considering a NESCAC or W&L instead of say, Salisbury or Stevenson (no knock intended), you probably also appreciate and celebrate those "esoteric academic pursuits" too...excellence, including academic pursuits, is what is appreciated and celebrated by those families.

And I obviously 100% agree with the attractions of a W&L, as you recount them. Including that it's a really excellent academic school, better/tougher than some of the NESCACs, and of course the rest of the assets you mention. IMO, they're indeed positioned to compete for a good lax player with any of the NESCACs, and have some real advantages as well. Question, does league strength hurt them? Is the NESCAC league simply perceived differently?

The good news, re rah-rah etc, is that W&L and the NESCAC's, and the Ivies, have higher proportions of their student bodies who are athletes than most any other schools...expect a robust social scene in which athletes play a big role, across sports...just don't expect massive stadiums or auditoriums of fans watching big time football and basketball. Not going to see that sort of rah-rah, though the student bodies do come out of the stacks and labs when there's a great rivalry game and the team is strong...helps when the weather is good!

[FannOLax]

Weather in Lexington is good for lacrosse; with lax season pushed into February, definitely better than New England weather. W&L also has a long lacrosse tradition. However, success breeds success, and the NESCAC has earned the reputation as THE D3 lax conference. A bunch of NESCAC teams have played for D3 national titles in recent years, while it's been some time since W&L made it to a national semi-final (and I was present to watch one of W&L's D3 semis). In any case, I hope to be in Lexington this spring for a W&L game.

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

100 Days until the York contest, they are loaded this year with what I believe will be a very stingy D. The W&L D I also believe will continue to be the strength of the team with some questions to be answered in the cage. The big issue will be if they can score, lots of players will need to step up offensively. Witherell is back so Is Mize, hoping he’s at 100% this season. Can any freshman become impact players this year

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

Any lax fans notice the men’s soccer teams national semi final. Painful, they took a 1-0 lead w maybe 10 min to go Conn College tied it and won in OT. Great season for the Gennies but this one will hurt for a long time

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

It’s only a preseason list but there isn’t one General on here
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... -americans

[ctbagataway]

Any lax fans notice the men’s soccer teams national semi final. Painful, they took a 1-0 lead w maybe 10 min to go Conn College tied it and won in OT. Great season for the Gennies but this one will hurt for a long time

Really tough second yellow against W&L, forced them to play down a man at the end of regulation and the OT. Still a great season.

[ShenandoahLaxDad]

It’s only a preseason list but there isn’t one General on here
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... -americans

well, should there be?

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

Anyone aware as to why Bonnist and Overbeck are both not listed on the roster. Both players I thought may have had some potential