Top 100 Player List From 2020

[BigTom4]

I agree with all of this. Forgot Cormier but have different reasons for Aitken and Fairman. Even though they struggled with scoring they still were able to draw slides and have a lot of hockey assist. A lot of midfielders don’t have a lot of points because of this. DeMaio should be ranked in the top 30 you’re right

Also have to remember wisnauskas is nowhere near as good without bernhardt

100% agree with this. Bernhardt was a FAR more impactful player than Wisnauskas this year. Points don't tell the whole story.

List is decent. Definite over-ranking of Cuse guys but I'm guessing that is your team Laxrat.

How do we know that Wisnauskas is nowhere as good without Bernhardt?

O'Keefe isn't better because of Ament?

Syracuse did play only one top 20 team (Army).

We will probably find out next year. But watch a Wisnauskas highlight tape and answer me this: how many goals are goals he created vs goals someone else created and he finished?

[BigTom4]

Would love to hear thoughts on Joey Epstein’s down year? He did not look great out there this year heard he was banged up would love to hear more on that

He is an AA talent, but I don't know if i'd include him on this list if it's based on 2020 performance.

Agreed, 10 points in 4 games, could not beat his man. No way he can be in your top 50.

Another massively overrated player is Dox Aitken at 25, flip him out and put Payton Cormier in the top 50-75.

Cormier: 12 goals, 7 assists on 24 shots
Aitken: 8 goals, 1 assist on 43 shots

[Farfromgeneva]

Yeah giving a free pass bc of injury or whatever other reason for a slow start sort of diminishes it for people who were lucky enough to not get hurt as there is some randomness to it.

But....on pg 3 so at leas laxrat succeeded only stirring up some conversation.

[stupefied]

5 games in , sorry but body of work should factor when assessing , watching much does help smooth out impressions .My 2020-21 team if you have has Epstein on it because he was superb in 19 when healthy and he will be superb in 21 , also has Aiken because judging him after a slow start just five games in is comical. He's still one of the best in my view. Winning also matters, follow the dots. Let me touch on Winauskaus once again having watched him play very often . Perhaps some caught him on a unimpressive day since he isn't the flashiest but no one can argue with his body of work. . Many value initiators over finishers but there are different ways to create other than dodging . Very few dodge like Sowers , Teat doesn't but he impacts by passing . Winaskaus looks gangly but is much more athletic than perceived and is a superb passer , he had 35 assists last year besides his 44 goals and would have posted the same . That is creating. Really dont care where he is ranked to another since he is one hell of a player.

[Laxrat120]

Not a Cuse fan honestly am a big Duke fan was just trying to be honest. Would love to hear who I overrated on cuse

You say you factored in matchups and competition, but Syracuse didn't play anyone to start their season. You have four Orange in your top 25 and only one player from Cornell? Cornell who is also undefeated and beat Penn State and Ohio State? Seems off. If its just about stats and being undefeated, why not have Georgetown players all over over your top 50? having watched every Syracuse game this year, and a lot of other games, I just don't see the methodology behind it.

Do you want specific arguments:

11. Trimboli: Good player, but number 11 player in the country good? Definitely not. Not a coach in the country would pick him over O'Keefe, Costabile, Moore, Bernhardt, or Wisnauskas. He's a very good shooter who got his points because he was the third best middie on a very stacked line, and got the list defensive attention. Overall it's was shaping up to be a weak year for midfielders, and I think there are more deserving attack men would be ranked higher.

16. Curry: Same exact argument, with less production than Trimboli.

23. Porter: Very good goalie, yes, but not top goalie in the country and top 25 overall player. Outside the top 10 in goals against, save %, and saves per game. I think goalie is a muddled group and no one really deserved Top 50 rankings. If I had to pick one though, I think McElroy and Schulper had better starts to the season.

29. Kennedy: Laughably over ranked. Koby Smith, Brett Makar, Gavin Adler, Mark Evanchick, and way better players. He got exposed against Colgate and never had to play a truly challenging offensive team the entire year. Much better LSM than close defender.

43. Dordevic: Had one excellant games (7pts vs Hobart). Take that out and he had 7 points in the remaining 4 games combined. Shot was off all year, looked (deservedly) rusty coming off injury. Will be a force next year, but wasn't great this year.

62. Rehfuss: Third best attackman on a mediocre attack unit at number 62? Nope.

You made my point I was trying to make about Kennedy. I just thought nobody would back me up. Thanks

[stupefied]

The pt was off. Colgate's Brown had four goals off Mellen before Kennedy was switched on and shut him down. Zero. I gave you actual facts, few close defenders covering ones gave up just 3 in 5. Enjoy his takeoff in 21 wherever he's stationed. As far as the other Anti Cuse comments, par for the course. Some always diminish Cuse as overhyped or their rank too high, they had some prime players , they will be all be back and be a top five team once again. Doesn't happen without prime players and no backhanded comments can mask that . Trimboli was superb, had been underrated for years . Four year starter and improved by leaps and bounds with his accuracy. People here were trashing Dordevic as overhyped but then they suddenly quieted. Curry separates easily and he can launch off the run with either hand Porter is one of the best goalies in game , no goalie doesn't have up and downs. I was also glad that you recognized Fernandez who just went into portal. I could add a few others on Cuse . Really good players ,really good team

[Cooter]

I agree with all of this. Forgot Cormier but have different reasons for Aitken and Fairman. Even though they struggled with scoring they still were able to draw slides and have a lot of hockey assist. A lot of midfielders don’t have a lot of points because of this. DeMaio should be ranked in the top 30 you’re right

Also have to remember wisnauskas is nowhere near as good without bernhardt

100% agree with this. Bernhardt was a FAR more impactful player than Wisnauskas this year. Points don't tell the whole story.

List is decent. Definite over-ranking of Cuse guys but I'm guessing that is your team Laxrat.

How do we know that Wisnauskas is nowhere as good without Bernhardt?

O'Keefe isn't better because of Ament?

Syracuse did play only one top 20 team (Army).

We will probably find out next year. But watch a Wisnauskas highlight tape and answer me this: how many goals are goals he created vs goals someone else created and he finished?

Logan is a good shooter and good at finding ways to get his shot off. I think Logan creates a lot of shots by moving to spots where he can receive the pass.
How many goals does O'Keefe create himself?

Wisnauskas leads the Terps in assists with 12.

[stupefied]

Thought I had posted this earlier. Winaskaus is a somehow underrated despite all his accomplishments Looks gangly but he's very athletic and has a well rounded game. .
Some value a dodger that initiates more than a perceived finisher but there are other ways to create for others than dodging. . Sowers dodges, Teat really doesn't but his vision and passing are just as impactful. Winauskaus is obviously a different player than both but does more than finish , he also creates in his own way as he sees the field well with height that is an advantage . 35 assists last year to go with his 44 goals. Dont really care where he is ranked in relation to others but should be clear to all that he is a prime player that must be planned for

[Farfromgeneva]

Not a Cuse fan honestly am a big Duke fan was just trying to be honest. Would love to hear who I overrated on cuse

You say you factored in matchups and competition, but Syracuse didn't play anyone to start their season. You have four Orange in your top 25 and only one player from Cornell? Cornell who is also undefeated and beat Penn State and Ohio State? Seems off. If its just about stats and being undefeated, why not have Georgetown players all over over your top 50? having watched every Syracuse game this year, and a lot of other games, I just don't see the methodology behind it.

Do you want specific arguments:

11. Trimboli: Good player, but number 11 player in the country good? Definitely not. Not a coach in the country would pick him over O'Keefe, Costabile, Moore, Bernhardt, or Wisnauskas. He's a very good shooter who got his points because he was the third best middie on a very stacked line, and got the list defensive attention. Overall it's was shaping up to be a weak year for midfielders, and I think there are more deserving attack men would be ranked higher.

16. Curry: Same exact argument, with less production than Trimboli.

23. Porter: Very good goalie, yes, but not top goalie in the country and top 25 overall player. Outside the top 10 in goals against, save %, and saves per game. I think goalie is a muddled group and no one really deserved Top 50 rankings. If I had to pick one though, I think McElroy and Schulper had better starts to the season.

29. Kennedy: Laughably over ranked. Koby Smith, Brett Makar, Gavin Adler, Mark Evanchick, and way better players. He got exposed against Colgate and never had to play a truly challenging offensive team the entire year. Much better LSM than close defender.

43. Dordevic: Had one excellant games (7pts vs Hobart). Take that out and he had 7 points in the remaining 4 games combined. Shot was off all year, looked (deservedly) rusty coming off injury. Will be a force next year, but wasn't great this year.

62. Rehfuss: Third best attackman on a mediocre attack unit at number 62? Nope.

You made my point I was trying to make about Kennedy. I just thought nobody would back me up. Thanks

I'm going to have to take offense to the continued dismissiveness of Syracuse's schedule. Hobart would easily have had a top 15 offense, maybe top 5, this year. Had returned six (6) guys with between 25 - 67pts this year plus a couple of clearly capable FR (one was 14,1 through 5), two guys well north of 100 career pts and another jr at 98 (ryan archer, son of Jamie, an IL top 60 HS Sr/incoming Fr who was CNY POY as a Sr) and that's not including Jack Bionda's grandson Jason Knox. I'm sure some big school cats like Cooter will come on and argue fervently but the Hobart offense was as legit as anything Cornell faced except PSU, but at least on par if not better than OSU.

Everyone was ready to anoint Army after smashing UMass and somebody else decent with UMass turning around and beating OSU before Cornell did by 2.

I understand the argument Cornell folks are making but even if they'd have watched last years Hobart-Cornell game which was a 19-16 track meet and this years Hobart team was better it seems incredibly dismissive and I keep seeing "Syracuse played a bunch of trash to date" arguments, which really only came about once Cornell got that PSU win. Of course Towson, Rutgers and Villanova had been #1 in the country midseason to only fall off a cliff. I think there isn't a huge difference between Army/Hobart and OSU/PSU, the PSU win is better, the other three are all the same so the argument is really "Cornell should be higher on the strength of the PSU win" more than anything else.

But as this keeps getting repeated it's starting to get obnoxious. Hobart was in a place where they could've been ranked end of year higher than OSU or Army.

[Farfromgeneva]

5 games in , sorry but body of work should factor when assessing , watching much does help smooth out impressions .My 2020-21 team if you have has Epstein on it because he was superb in 19 when healthy and he will be superb in 21 , also has Aiken because judging him after a slow start just five games in is comical. He's still one of the best in my view. Winning also matters, follow the dots. Let me touch on Winauskaus once again having watched him play very often . Perhaps some caught him on a unimpressive day since he isn't the flashiest but no one can argue with his body of work. . Many value initiators over finishers but there are different ways to create other than dodging . Very few dodge like Sowers , Teat doesn't but he impacts by passing . Winaskaus looks gangly but is much more athletic than perceived and is a superb passer , he had 35 assists last year besides his 44 goals and would have posted the same . That is creating. Really dont care where he is ranked to another since he is one hell of a player.

This assumes linear progress and complete and full recovery from injuries, which one cannot assume reasonably. What if Epstein comes back at 70% of himself next year from the damage of playing on a bad leg and not enough practice/play over a 18mo period, for example. Or sometimes guys come back a little, it happens every year to some top players.

[stupefied]

True . Hobart was indeed a very good team as was Army. We saw from week to week that no one was unbeatable .Cuse finished as # 1 but Orange players while confident were first to say that there was lot of season to play and who knows how season would have played out. They were a very good team as were others and appeared to be getting better. Cornell ? They were also very good .Less than a year ago , Cuse beat Big Red rather comfortably for all that is worth. Would love to have seen Cuse vs Big Red and UNC, Hobart vs Cornell. What we all have in common is that we all miss lax. Stay safe all

[stupefied]

5 games in , sorry but body of work should factor when assessing , watching much does help smooth out impressions .My 2020-21 team if you have has Epstein on it because he was superb in 19 when healthy and he will be superb in 21 , also has Aiken because judging him after a slow start just five games in is comical. He's still one of the best in my view. Winning also matters, follow the dots. Let me touch on Winauskaus once again having watched him play very often . Perhaps some caught him on a unimpressive day since he isn't the flashiest but no one can argue with his body of work. . Many value initiators over finishers but there are different ways to create other than dodging . Very few dodge like Sowers , Teat doesn't but he impacts by passing . Winaskaus looks gangly but is much more athletic than perceived and is a superb passer , he had 35 assists last year besides his 44 goals and would have posted the same . That is creating. Really dont care where he is ranked to another since he is one hell of a player.

This assumes linear progress and complete and full recovery from injuries, which one cannot assume reasonably. What if Epstein comes back at 70% of himself next year from the damage of playing on a bad leg and not enough practice/play over a 18mo period, for example. Or sometimes guys come back a little, it happens every year to some top players.

True , Im assuming the best. He's a hard worker who will put in the time necessary during a long layoff. Hoping for the best for the kid

[Farfromgeneva]

True . Hobart was indeed a very good team as was Army. We saw from week to week that no one was unbeatable .Cuse finished as # 1 but Orange players while confident were first to say that there was lot of season to play and who knows how season would have played out. They were a very good team as were others and appeared to be getting better. Cornell ? They were also very good .Less than a year ago , Cuse beat Big Red rather comfortably for all that is worth. Would love to have seen Cuse vs Big Red and UNC, Hobart vs Cornell. What we all have in common is that we all miss lax. Stay safe all

Its not just in this thread, everyone who's taking shots at Syracuse have been saying it, but while it wasn't murderers row, clearly somebody like UMD had a much tougher schedule, but I've seen worse 5-6 game SOS out of midseason #1 teams before. The strength Syracuse had, which was true most years when they won championships that I can recall, even in various Powell years, was the depth at midfield. I think end of season they may have been looking better than many if they had stayed healthy.

Think the bigger argument is they got four straight at home before going to Hop. That's perhaps more of an indictment in general. Cornell played their first four on the road. But we will have to see how Cornell would've done, from 3/14 - 4/7 they had: Yale, Penn, Colgate, Dartmouth, Hobart, Harvard, Syracuse, Yale and Hobart at home, Penn away. And two common opponents with Syracuse.

Princeton was #3 on the UVA win, but shortly thereafter Brown beat UVA as well Also beat Colgate. Poor colgate had just a brutal schedule to start the season.

UNC at #4 also played Colgate. Is it possible Colgate wasn't bad just played all top 20(ish for Hobart) teams to start the season? 2 goal win over Bryant. Laf, Furman, etc. @ Denver was their best win. Interestingly Hop also lost to Cuse, PTon and UNC early.

Yale w wins over Nova and PSU (same as Cornell) but also took a funky loss to UMass.

PSU at 6 had logged two losses, good comp, but still they probably should've been behind UMD.

[BigTom4]

5 games in , sorry but body of work should factor when assessing , watching much does help smooth out impressions .My 2020-21 team if you have has Epstein on it because he was superb in 19 when healthy and he will be superb in 21 , also has Aiken because judging him after a slow start just five games in is comical. He's still one of the best in my view. Winning also matters, follow the dots. Let me touch on Winauskaus once again having watched him play very often . Perhaps some caught him on a unimpressive day since he isn't the flashiest but no one can argue with his body of work. . Many value initiators over finishers but there are different ways to create other than dodging . Very few dodge like Sowers , Teat doesn't but he impacts by passing . Winaskaus looks gangly but is much more athletic than perceived and is a superb passer , he had 35 assists last year besides his 44 goals and would have posted the same . That is creating. Really dont care where he is ranked to another since he is one hell of a player.

The title of the thread is "Top 100 Player List From 2020." We are not evaluating careers accomplishments or projecting future performance. We are talking about the top players from this shortened season. So putting Epstein and Aitken on this list would be, in your words, comical.

[BigTom4]

Not a Cuse fan honestly am a big Duke fan was just trying to be honest. Would love to hear who I overrated on cuse

You say you factored in matchups and competition, but Syracuse didn't play anyone to start their season. You have four Orange in your top 25 and only one player from Cornell? Cornell who is also undefeated and beat Penn State and Ohio State? Seems off. If its just about stats and being undefeated, why not have Georgetown players all over over your top 50? having watched every Syracuse game this year, and a lot of other games, I just don't see the methodology behind it.

Do you want specific arguments:

11. Trimboli: Good player, but number 11 player in the country good? Definitely not. Not a coach in the country would pick him over O'Keefe, Costabile, Moore, Bernhardt, or Wisnauskas. He's a very good shooter who got his points because he was the third best middie on a very stacked line, and got the list defensive attention. Overall it's was shaping up to be a weak year for midfielders, and I think there are more deserving attack men would be ranked higher.

16. Curry: Same exact argument, with less production than Trimboli.

23. Porter: Very good goalie, yes, but not top goalie in the country and top 25 overall player. Outside the top 10 in goals against, save %, and saves per game. I think goalie is a muddled group and no one really deserved Top 50 rankings. If I had to pick one though, I think McElroy and Schulper had better starts to the season.

29. Kennedy: Laughably over ranked. Koby Smith, Brett Makar, Gavin Adler, Mark Evanchick, and way better players. He got exposed against Colgate and never had to play a truly challenging offensive team the entire year. Much better LSM than close defender.

43. Dordevic: Had one excellant games (7pts vs Hobart). Take that out and he had 7 points in the remaining 4 games combined. Shot was off all year, looked (deservedly) rusty coming off injury. Will be a force next year, but wasn't great this year.

62. Rehfuss: Third best attackman on a mediocre attack unit at number 62? Nope.

You made my point I was trying to make about Kennedy. I just thought nobody would back me up. Thanks

I think there isn't a huge difference between Army/Hobart and OSU/PSU

[Farfromgeneva]

I guess Cornell would've run the table and been the greatest team ever this year then. Everyone was on Army's tip after two weeks. Again, you forget the runs Rutgers and Nove had recently to #1 only to not make the playoffs. Not saying this would've happened to Cornell but you may as well just crown yourself champion then. There's some really cool Cornell people but also a few that carry frontrunner hubris like no other (and while they did get screwed in seeding in 07, the whining five years later was obnoxious on LP).

[BigTom4]

I guess Cornell would've run the table and been the greatest team ever this year then. Everyone was on Army's tip after two weeks. Again, you forget the runs Rutgers and Nove had recently to #1 only to not make the playoffs. Not saying this would've happened to Cornell but you may as well just crown yourself champion then. There's some really cool Cornell people but also a few that carry frontrunner hubris like no other (and while they did get screwed in seeding in 07, the whining five years later was obnoxious on LP).

I’m not a Cornell fan, just a realistic lacrosse fan. This post is about best players over a one month stretch. I’m not prognosticating how the season would have ended up. I watched every Cuse game and 3 Cornell games (OSU/PSU/Towson). Cornell was as impressive or more impressive than Cuse was to start the season. Sorry.

[Farfromgeneva]

You started out crapping in specific Syracuse players, then switched to team performance but we can’t say how good or bad a game is until we see a whole season/. I could go through every one of the last ten years and find 2-3 hot teams early and slow starters that flipped and in hindsight performances looked very different at end of year.

I was simply pointing out that saying Syracuse played a bunch of red headed step children is hard to say and within a month there would’ve been much more balance to SOs as Cornell picks up Hobart, Colgate and either Harvard or Dartmouth won’t help by year end either while Syracuse was going to have ACC. We can look at five or six games collectively and make some assertions but we can’t really pick out individual performances and say those were exceptional relative to others. Penn St was thought of as top 4-5 but was 5-2 and the Yale team they lost to turned around and lost to UMass. And I’m skeptical Mellen was a guy who was improving year to year, might’ve peaked as a FR (it happens to even FR AAs) but he would’ve been back too. This happens in every sport. Towson was clearly down this year, losses to Hop and MsM. Albany was a better win for Cornell. OSU also had two losses. It Cooter has pointed out a couple of times that LeClaire absolutely lit Cornell up.

As far as players I’d agree Piatelli was too low easily should’ve been ahead of Tierney for example. I already questioned Kennedy but that’s tricky because we know he’s more LSM but trying to value him on close D play. If Scanlan we’re still on Loyola w same numbers he would’ve been right there so not sure why he’s picked on though I didn’t see much in the Bart game from him, was really Djordevic and Rehfuss. If it’s team sure Cornell had a better profile but it’s 5 games. Individually this is just a silly exercise can’t put too much weight on performance x or y without knowing how the other team would’ve done in a full year.

[Laxrat120]

https://lacrossebucket.com/2020/04/07/2 ... -rankings/
Looks like someone recreated our ratings. Nice article and write ups