LaxPower Back-Up Stick

palaxoff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:52 am Saw a friend's post on FB about giving Seniors another year of Eligibility. He is kind of swaying me against it.

His reasoning is if you give seniors and extra year, you should give it to Freshmen, Sophomores and Juniors otherwise you are potentially making it harder for them to get a chance to shine ( his words) ...

Money. That's the key consideration. Scholarships for laxers, footballers, gymnasts, etc. Many schools have several hundred athletes on scholarship and those with lower endowments are going to be handicapped while the bigger schools would have no trouble meeting these goals. With so many colleges going out of business in recent years, this could well contribute to the closing of more schools.

While it is an honorable idea, I'm not sure schools want to fork out all the money needed to finance these scholarships.

If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money. I know three is no ideal situation, but the idea that kids (including my own) may lose out completely irritates me to no end.

Yes, it sucks for the kids in college, but at least they have had the chance to get INTO the college.

laxfan22 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:04 pm If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money. I know three is no ideal situation, but the idea that kids (including my own) may lose out completely irritates me to no end.

Yes, it sucks for the kids in college, but at least they have had the chance to get INTO the college.

It's not that easy for these kids looking for a 5th year to simply play one. Only the cream of the crop will have an opportunity because a coach will have to want to give them a roster spot over an underclassman. And even then they'll have to get into grad school if they are currently a senior which wont be a walk in the park at most places. Also, most of these kids probably have jobs lined up. The kids that come after them (this year's juniors, sophomores and freshmen) will most likely have forgotten this partially lost year when they are seniors. Not every kid wants to play a 5th year as much as their dads want them to.

laxfan22 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:04 pm If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money. I know three is no ideal situation, but the idea that kids (including my own) may lose out completely irritates me to no end.

Yes, it sucks for the kids in college, but at least they have had the chance to get INTO the college.

I can see that scholarships may be limited for the 22s, but after reflection I don't understand why a coach would voluntarily take a smaller '22 recruiting class, particularly if the vast majority of those kids were not receiving money. Am I missing something?

I agree with the last post. I think the NCAA may have rushed to find a fix for this and didn’t think the ramifications through. This will end up hurting younger players as the last post mentioned. Not sure why they did not look into finishing the season in a condensed fashion once this gets under control.

bauer4429 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:20 pm I agree with the last post. I think the NCAA may have rushed to find a fix for this and didn’t think the ramifications through. This will end up hurting younger players as the last post mentioned. Not sure why they did not look into finishing the season in a condensed fashion once this gets under control.

I disagree. The NCAA did the right thing. All classes are equally impacted. The chances of finishing the season are extremely low. You would need every school and conference to start again and risk safety in many areas.

Most students will not go 5 years. Many seniors do not start or get significant playing time. It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes. But, the impact will not be as large as people are speculating.

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:36 pm All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:36 pm

bauer4429 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:20 pm I agree with the last post. I think the NCAA may have rushed to find a fix for this and didn’t think the ramifications through. This will end up hurting younger players as the last post mentioned. Not sure why they did not look into finishing the season in a condensed fashion once this gets under control.

Most students will not go 5 years. Many seniors do not start or get significant playing time. It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes. But, the impact will not be as large as people are speculating.

I agree with this.

There is no solution where everyone will be happy, but I think doing right by the current student-athletes should be the #1 concern, and an extra year satisfies that.

smoova wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:39 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:36 pm All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

Not just the seniors were impacted by the season cancellations. Freshman, Sophomores, and Juniors all lost 2/3's of the season.

The players that have the highest chance of staying a 5th year are the starters in their 4th year. That is probably 4-5, but it needs to make sense from a school standpoint too (masters, graduate work, etc.). This will slow younger players from getting on the field a little. And slow down recruiting to a degree, but not a significant amount.

I say heck no....pure and simple. The ripple effect has numerous ramifications. Plus the seniors have already played in enough games to make them ineligible under non "National Emergency" circumstances. Move on.....life ain't fair. If you give it to seniors then the entire current roster must also get it.....which also means cuts must take place for teams that have max roster sizes with incoming recruits.

Coach Tierney @ the 4:22 mark.....realizes it is complicated and impacts more than just seniors.

fatherof2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:15 pm I know this is a very general statement (but also a compliment!)
I would think that the Majority of Ivy and Patriot seniors would already have jobs lined up.

I"m pretty sure that the Military Academy cadets and Naval Academy Midshipmen are all going to be gainfully employed.

Booker, Burlace, and Beardsley discussion on 5th year at 10min 30sec.

The NCAA hasn’t even said this is a done deal. Their Council Coordination Committee (whatever that is) has simply said that they think it would be “appropriate” to provide “eligibility relief” and that they were going to examine it further and get back with details. I highly doubt the NCAA is going to grant a full spring season and a fall preseason to an athlete that competed in 5-7 games this season. Wouldn’t be fair to anyone and the NCAA doesn’t throw around eligibility lightly. Who’s going to stick around to play in maybe 7-8 games next year? I think this is going to end up being far less attractive than the way people are talking assuming the NCAA even agrees to offer anything to lacrosse. Kids should be careful making decisions now assuming something that will probably not be the case (another full season).

NoLeft wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:52 pm

fatherof2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:15 pm I know this is a very general statement (but also a compliment!)
I would think that the Majority of Ivy and Patriot seniors would already have jobs lined up.

I"m pretty sure that the Military Academy cadets and Naval Academy Midshipmen are all going to be gainfully employed.

Most likely if your a junior and not seeing playing time your likelyhood of seeing the field much more your senior year is small (I admit there are exceptions). A coach is more likely to make the investment into underclassmen who can leverage the experience over another year or two, or three. This is somewhat true for sophomores but less so. Coaches generally know their starters and their practice players (still extremely important for the team). Point being I’m not really sure I agree with the idea that the impact is similar across the 4 years. The best top seniors players are impacted the most, potentially loosing their senior year where they already established leadership and starting roles. If your playing as a junior your likely to do so again next year, if your not, same next year. Sophomores, And Freshman and even incoming classes know the challenge ahead of them and my guess is most that would have seen the field will anyway and get their day in the sun.

As others have said there is no perfect solution, the choice should be which solution has the fewest negatives and IMO the one chosen by the NCAA was right, 5th year for all current players. Now I hope the leagues with further restrictions adjust as well.

RedIvy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:12 pm the choice should be which solution has the fewest negatives and IMO the one chosen by the NCAA was right, 5th year for all current players.

This is not what the NCAA has chosen. They have just said they think it’s appropriate to grant “eligibility relief” with details on what that means to come. It won’t be a full season of eligibility for someone who has played in about a 3rd or more of their team’s scheduled regular season games this season already. Nor should it. Anyone considering sticking around needs to hear what all of this means before making any decision.

I tend to favor not giving another year of eligibility.
First off there is the scholarship problem.
Then you have the pecking order thing, with extra seniors keeping other players from advancing... and so on.
In the end, I think this will lead to a lot of transfers - extra seniors looking for scholarship money, younger players looking for playing time.
Another thing you might get is a number of players being cut In the fall, because of limited roster sizes.

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:25 pm

smoova wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:39 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:36 pm All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

Not just the seniors were impacted by the season cancellations. Freshman, Sophomores, and Juniors all lost 2/3's of the season.

The players that have the highest chance of staying a 5th year are the starters in their 4th year. That is probably 4-5, but it needs to make sense from a school standpoint too (masters, graduate work, etc.). This will slow younger players from getting on the field a little. And slow down recruiting to a degree, but not a significant amount.

Every college and HS player in the country lost a season. Giving current college players an additional year of eligibility rights the "wrong" they've suffered at the expense of the kids in HS.

smoova wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:57 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:25 pm

smoova wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:39 pm

DU-fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:36 pm All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

Not just the seniors were impacted by the season cancellations. Freshman, Sophomores, and Juniors all lost 2/3's of the season.

The players that have the highest chance of staying a 5th year are the starters in their 4th year. That is probably 4-5, but it needs to make sense from a school standpoint too (masters, graduate work, etc.). This will slow younger players from getting on the field a little. And slow down recruiting to a degree, but not a significant amount.

Every college and HS player in the country lost a season. Giving current college players an additional year of eligibility rights the "wrong" they've suffered at the expense of the kids in HS.

This is a fantastic point. The current HS athletes are the ones who by far made the greatest sacrifice in this entire situation based on how it’s evolving. NCAA should treat that group the same way as the current college students.

Lets not forget about the mental state of these guys.

They've been preparing to graduate and move into the workforce, grad school, etc. Their near-term futures for the most part, have been decided. I would think most guys have that lined up. They love playing, but mentally, they've prepared themselves for the end of their playing days, and have been looking forward to the next chapter of their lives.

I'm really not that sure how many guys want an extra year. Are they really going to want to delay the next chapter of their life for another year of play? Certainly, some will, but I have to think most won't. If you are one of the superstar players...what are we talking about here, maybe a dozen guys? You MIGHT want to stay, and the stars would have to align. You might also have an awesome job waiting for you that you worked your tail off for in the classroom to get. The next tier of senior players down, although excellent players, may have a similar job situation lined up, and they aren't quite the superstar player. They're moving on.

Right now, these guys are emotional. Having a chance to play again sounds like a gift. But when reality hits, they may want to move on.

And we haven't even talked about the money yet. You aren't just potentially paying, you are giving up earnings. Its certainly not as easy a decision as many on here think. Its very complex.

There's also coming and going with your class. Reuniting with your high school friends after college in the workplace...growing up. They are being robbed right now, I get it. But I think when the dust settles, you'll see fewer guys take this option than you now think.

+1 Quaker South. Great post.