LaxPower Back-Up Stick

44WeWantMore wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:53 am

faircornell wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:17 pm I can't commit to doing this, but I will commit to not criticize the hard working pollsters.

Not only do I share this commitment, I encourage the Moderator to brutally suppress any such criticism.
While I prefer FL's lighter moderation touch in general over the old LP model, IIRC, criticism of the pollsters killed the old LP poll.
We want to encourage pollsters, especially those who post their rationales, even if only "thud".

Agreed. Criticizing the pollsters, for sure, will be a problem. Criticizing the polls is harder to monitor. Criticizing the polls to an extreme is tricky but, especially since we're trying to nip this in the bud, we should be able to do something.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:57 amBack in if it's 15-20.

Sounds like Top 15 is splitting the difference. Or maybe the Top Tens won't be as similar as we think. And, keep in mind, Hop. We can make changes. Changes that could even include some Post-ers posting a Top 10 while others post a Top 20. We can have both and still have a cumulative FORUM POLL. We'll make it work.

NElaxtalent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:15 amThe Top 10 is typically "almost boilerplate" if you follow events. The fun/interesting/subjective nuances (that matter, for NCAA purposes) occur between 12 - 20.

Fwiw I would commit to follow the BE, Patriot & SoCon more closely than I usually do.

I'll work on this today. I think it makes sense to give people the option of Top Ten, Top Fifteen, Top Twenty, or Top Twenty-Five. If some Top Ten guy is posting a boiler plate, so be it. It's still meaningful. NE, you in?

Lax Fi and I did a breakdown of the LaxPower poll using several years data. We compared the results to other polls and looked at individual performances.

We found on balance the polls did a pretty good job. We found a few pollsters had biases in favor of certain teams but what surprised us most was the anti team biases that a few pollsters exhibited. They were stronger than the pro teams biases.

The results we got were revealing at the micro level but at the macro level the poll held up pretty well.

NE and Hop, I agree. Top Tens are frequently boiler plates but I believe this to be the case not because the Top Ten teams are so clearly the Top Ten and so clearly in the order they're placed but because people feel pressure to Group Think. In previous seasons I created (and re-created) Polls and... If you have a team in the poll that people disagree with, you hear it. The biggest attacks for #1, the smallest attacks for #70. At FanLax, it's pretty well controlled and the post-ers tend to be better lacrosse educated than other social media outlets. But at these other social media outlets... Holy crow. Mind you, not because a team being #1 is objectively ridiculous. I've always used a formula-based poll, always shared the formula, and the formula has never been ridiculous. The outrage and insults that ensued was 80% of the time due to... My poll being different than IL, LaxMag, etc. Now, keep in mind, I'm just a hack. I can cheat. So, for example, mid-season of 2019, there was a point where Loyola and High Point were highly ranked and... UVA was #1. (UVA's schedule from 2019: http://app.fanlax.com/team/16076/2019) And, holy crow, people were relentless. "Did you ever play the sport?! Have you ever watched the game?!" etc. But the most common criticism, by far, was "IL, Lax Mag, etc., NONE of them have UVA at #1. they all have X at #1. You're a moron!" (Again, not at FanLax, at other social media outlets.) I have pretty thick skin, I'm not insecure about my lacrosse knowledge, I'm just a hack with a silly formula, and... I was tempted to change the #1. Just so people would calm down with their attacks. And... I didn't. I checked, double checked,... 100 times checked my formula. But I didn't buckle. But the point is, *I was using a formula* and I considered changing my top picks. It was hard! Anyway, i don't think the Top Ten are so obvious. I think not following the pack is hard. Both consciously and subconsciously. Especially for the Top Picks.

OCanada, we'll be doing everything on spreadsheets (which we'll happily share) so you/we could play with the numbers (again).

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:41 pm

jersey shore lax wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:59 pm great idea - and I can justify my Delaware pick every week if need be

Jersey, that mean you're in?

Yes - I am in and I will put Delaware above Hopkins every week until I am run out of town

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:45 am Lax Fi and I did a breakdown of the LaxPower poll using several years data. We compared the results to other polls and looked at individual performances.

We found on balance the polls did a pretty good job. We found a few pollsters had biases in favor of certain teams but what surprised us most was the anti team biases that a few pollsters exhibited. They were stronger than the pro teams biases.

The results we got were revealing at the micro level but at the macro level the poll held up pretty well.

TBH, I'm more worried about the anti-Hop voting from the Hopkins fans...just based on their board.

admin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:33 am

NElaxtalent wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:15 amThe Top 10 is typically "almost boilerplate" if you follow events. The fun/interesting/subjective nuances (that matter, for NCAA purposes) occur between 12 - 20.

Fwiw I would commit to follow the BE, Patriot & SoCon more closely than I usually do.

I'll work on this today. I think it makes sense to give people the option of Top Ten, Top Fifteen, Top Twenty, or Top Twenty-Five. If some Top Ten guy is posting a boiler plate, so be it. It's still meaningful. NE, you in?

Yes I'm in. To clarify my prior, I was thinking the ACC, B1G & Ivy will naturally get plenty of scrutiny so I was indicating I will focus add'l attention on the BE, Patriot & SoCon for "context" and comments. Hopefully others can do for AE, MAAC, NEC & CAA.

I created the Forum Poll Page to collect the Polls from the individual Forum Poll Post-ers. Take a look. As shown on the page, the Preseason Poll is due on February 3rd by midnight EST. Minimum of Top 10. Maximum of Top 25. All picks will contribute to the cumulative FORUM POLL with #1 picks getting the most weight, the #25 pick getting the least. Let me know if you have any thoughts, questions, etc. Otherwise, enjoy making your picks. And, of course, (Cooter) let me know who else (Cooter) wants to join the fun (Cooter).

admin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:51 pm I created the Forum Poll Page to collect the Polls from the individual Forum Poll Post-ers. Take a look. As shown on the page, the Preseason Poll is due on February 3rd by midnight EST. Minimum of Top 10. Maximum of Top 25. All picks will contribute to the cumulative FORUM POLL with #1 picks getting the most weight, the #25 pick getting the least. Let me know if you have any thoughts, questions, etc. Otherwise, enjoy making your picks. And, of course, (Cooter) let me know who else (Cooter) wants to join the fun (Cooter).

Easy enough it seems. I'll send in my preseason list before Saturday's contests to make it a true preseason exercise. Thanks for the effort Admin.

The Poll will look something like this (below). Within the thread, Poll-ers can explain their Poll Rationales (or not).

Also, in the future, I won't share the Polls prematurely (Sorry, calourie, laxpere, and jersey) but... I'm playing around and want to keep you all in the loop.

I can he1p the pe0p1e that r p0sting p011s, i kn0w 1acr0sse, i kn0w 10ng is1and,

admin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:27 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:57 amBack in if it's 15-20.

Sounds like Top 15 is splitting the difference. Or maybe the Top Tens won't be as similar as we think. And, keep in mind, Hop. We can make changes. Changes that could even include some Post-ers posting a Top 10 while others post a Top 20. We can have both and still have a cumulative FORUM POLL. We'll make it work.

I can and will do 15. Or die trying...

admin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:51 pm I created the Forum Poll Page to collect the Polls from the individual Forum Poll Post-ers. Take a look. As shown on the page, the Preseason Poll is due on February 3rd by midnight EST. Minimum of Top 10. Maximum of Top 25. All picks will contribute to the cumulative FORUM POLL with #1 picks getting the most weight, the #25 pick getting the least. Let me know if you have any thoughts, questions, etc. Otherwise, enjoy making your picks. And, of course, (Cooter) let me know who else (Cooter) wants to join the fun (Cooter).

So, is it just me, or are the picklists almost impossible to read? I'm onWindows 10, Chrome, and I'm seeing them as light grey text one a white background.

I can send/upload a screenshot of what I'm seeing if it helps.

ICGrad wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:59 pm So, is it just me, or are the picklists almost impossible to read? I'm onWindows 10, Chrome, and I'm seeing them as light grey text one a white background.

I can send/upload a screenshot of what I'm seeing if it helps.

Yes, until I started to type I couldn't even tell there WAS a pick list.

jersey shore lax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:41 am

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:41 pm

jersey shore lax wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:59 pm great idea - and I can justify my Delaware pick every week if need be

Jersey, that mean you're in?

Yes - I am in and I will put Delaware above Hopkins every week until I am run out of town

does that qualify as a rationale?

ICGrad wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:59 pmSo, is it just me, or are the picklists almost impossible to read? I'm onWindows 10, Chrome, and I'm seeing them as light grey text one a white background.

I see what you're saying. Looks different on smartphones and other browsers and... I understand what you're saying. When you highlight a team (that was formerly almost invisible), you can read it pretty clearly and the teams are alphabetical. With this said, I'm looking into ways to change the font color.

For obvious and less obvious reasons, I've added Password Protection to the Poll Submission page. If you're a Forum Poll-er, message (or e-mail) me and I'll send you the password.

I might be in. Should be a Top 25.