LaxPower Back-Up Stick

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 amBoston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

Wheels wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:42 pm Minnesota
Florida State
Or one of the D2 Florida programs (Rollins, U Tampa, FL Southern

From what I've heard it definitely won't be Rollins. Supposedly, Rollins would rather be D-3 in all sports than D-2, but there aren't enough (any?) D-3 teams in Florida to make it possible. So, they're forced to participate in D-2 w/Tampa et al.

HowieT3 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:57 pm

Wheels wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:42 pm Minnesota
Florida State
Or one of the D2 Florida programs (Rollins, U Tampa, FL Southern

From what I've heard it definitely won't be Rollins. Supposedly, Rollins would rather be D-3 in all sports than D-2, but there aren't enough (any?) D-3 teams in Florida to make it possible. So, they're forced to participate in D-2 w/Tampa et al.

The problem with going from D-2 to D-1 is the steep requirements and the very lengthy transition. And the amount of money behind what it takes to make the move up is not minor. Sometimes you get lucky like LIU Post which was already part of a two campus system where the other campus was already D-1. Their transition was essentially instantaneous, but not without pain, as when there were teams at both campuses for the same sport one team was summarily eliminated, coaches and players.

Also, one of the main motivating factors in the past was the "money" games for lower level D-1 teams serving as cannon fodder for big schools in football and basketball particularly. But the P5 conferences pretty much don't do that at the same level any more, so the paydays are more limited. That makes the $ side of the equation tougher as well.

I’m sure there are a couple schools without football programs that can add lacrosse but it won’t be at the P5 level.

I’ve said this last year when this topic came up. Over the last 30 ish years more Power 5 conference schools (NC St., Mich. St. and BC) have dropped lacrosse than added lacrosse ( Michigan and Utah). This doesn’t even talk about other schools like Butler that dropped lax.

steel_hop wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:34 pm I’m sure there are a couple schools without football programs that can add lacrosse but it won’t be at the P5 level.

I’ve said this last year when this topic came up. Over the last 30 ish years more Power 5 conference schools (NC St., Mich. St. and BC) have dropped lacrosse than added lacrosse ( Michigan and Utah). This doesn’t even talk about other schools like Butler that dropped lax.

NC state dropped their D1 program in 1982, is that a current trend? You might want to say 40 years.
Michigan State 1995
BC in 2002

Losing Butler has easily been surpassed by the number similar schools adding lacrosse.

https://laxallstars.com/list-of-former- ... sse-teams/

QuakerSouth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:19 pm

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 amBoston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

Wasn't a great school.
BC was going to close it's doors in the 1980's, especially after the sports betting scandals. Flutie saved the school from going under. So I have heard from the 6 family members that went to BC.
Endowment was on par with Boston State. Which had a better lacrosse team anyway

Seem to recall that the SUnshine Conference and all it's team were N$AA tourney eligible year one. Is my CTE memory correct? If remembering correctly. Why aren't ALL Div. 1 new teams allowed the same ?

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

QuakerSouth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:19 pm

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 amBoston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

Wasn't a great school.
BC was going to close it's doors in the 1980's, especially after the sports betting scandals. Flutie saved the school from going under. So I have heard from the 6 family members that went to BC.
Endowment was on par with Boston State. Which had a better lacrosse team anyway

I don't put a ton of stock in USNW rankings but #38 ain't chopped liver.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/bo ... llege-2128

Similarly, the Forbes ranking methodology has some issues, too. Forbes has them in the same sort of range as USNW, though not as high on value for the dollar.
https://www.forbes.com/colleges/boston-college/

Two years out of Dartmouth, I applied to their Law School, which is first rate, but was #2 on the wait list due some first year at Dartmouth low GPA...and the wait list never got tapped. So, there I am in Boston in August, with my wife headed to Harvard Business School. I walked down the proverbial hall to the business school, which was more an up and coming effort there with a dynamic new Dean, and they liked my boards and GPA rebound story. Figured I'd do a JD-MBA proving myself at the B-school first. But within a month I realized that I was enjoying the business strategy work way too much to turn to law. It was an interesting experience to do B-school simultaneously, comparing teaching methodologies, etc. No question that the HBS fellow students were very high powered, faculty superb, etc. On the other hand, our curriculum was very oriented to what I'd call 'management EQ' the soft skills necessary for leadership and management of organizations, as well as significant emphasis on more hands-on team based learning. Back then such 'soft' classes were looked down upon by a lot of B school world, but it's been interesting to discuss this with my wife's B-school classmates over the decades as they've grown far more enthusiastic about the value of those courses that they did take and wished they'd done more...as that's what really matters in one's career.

My wife and I actually did an independent study, start-up competition together, for credit at each school...early experience in working directly together, which later on has been most of our careers. But as to 'night school' I was indeed able to extend a summer internship at Alex. Brown into a full time role during my 2nd year at BC, with classes taken at night. That led to ongoing full-time work at Alex Brown, then with a Boston venture firm, then helped run a couple of tech companies in our VC portfolio. Meanwhile my wife did a summer with Bain that then led to 5 years with them before we left the safety of large co's to be entrepreneurial together.

So, I'm biased in favor of BC.

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:29 am Seem to recall that the SUnshine Conference and all it's team were N$AA tourney eligible year one. Is my CTE memory correct? If remembering correctly. Why aren't ALL Div. 1 new teams allowed the same ?

If you're referring to the SoCon lax conference, which was branded for its first season as the Atlantic Sun, none of those institutions were new to D1 at the time.

If you're asking why D2 moveups are treated differently from new programs started by existing D1 members, the officially stated reason is to give the transitioning schools time to get their compliance house in order. It was apparently the case that the NCAA was spending a disproportionate amount of time dealing with violations by recent moveups that weren't used to navigating the D1 rules. But that doesn't seem to justify a 4-year probationary period. My suspicion is that the NCAA simply felt too many institutions were making ill-considered leaps to D1, and this was a typically passive-aggressive way of cutting down on the flow.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:06 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

QuakerSouth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:19 pm

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 amBoston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

Wasn't a great school.
BC was going to close it's doors in the 1980's, especially after the sports betting scandals. Flutie saved the school from going under. So I have heard from the 6 family members that went to BC.
Endowment was on par with Boston State. Which had a better lacrosse team anyway

I don't put a ton of stock in USNW rankings but #38 ain't chopped liver.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/bo ... llege-2128

Similarly, the Forbes ranking methodology has some issues, too. Forbes has them in the same sort of range as USNW, though not as high on value for the dollar.
https://www.forbes.com/colleges/boston-college/

Rankings

Homer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:09 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:29 am Seem to recall that the SUnshine Conference and all it's team were N$AA tourney eligible year one. Is my CTE memory correct? If remembering correctly. Why aren't ALL Div. 1 new teams allowed the same ?

If you're referring to the SoCon lax conference, which was branded for its first season as the Atlantic Sun, none of those institutions were new to D1 at the time.

If you're asking why D2 moveups are treated differently from new programs started by existing D1 members, the officially stated reason is to give the transitioning schools time to get their compliance house in order. It was apparently the case that the NCAA was spending a disproportionate amount of time dealing with violations by recent moveups that weren't used to navigating the D1 rules. But that doesn't seem to justify a 4-year probationary period. My suspicion is that the NCAA simply felt too many institutions were making ill-considered leaps to D1, and this was a typically passive-aggressive way of cutting down on the flow.

Are you sure Furman and RIchmond weren't brand new?

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:19 am
Are you sure Furman and RIchmond weren't brand new?

Absolutely positive. Furman has been a SoCon core member since the 1930s. Richmond won an FCS national title in 2008. Neither was in any way, shape, or form new to D1 in 2014.

Homer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:44 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:19 am
Are you sure Furman and RIchmond weren't brand new?

Absolutely positive. Furman has been a SoCon core member since the 1930s. Richmond won an FCS national title in 2008. Neither was in any way, shape, or form new to D1 in 2014.

Interesting, I thought that other schools like Utah, UMASS=Lowell, etc. that also have been Div. I for a while, have to wait years to be eligible for tourney invites?

ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:16 am Interesting, I thought that other schools like Utah, UMASS=Lowell, etc. that also have been Div. I for a while, have to wait years to be eligible for tourney invites?

UMass Lowell joined D1 as a provisional member in 2013. Their programs would've become postseason-eligible in 2017-18. Lacrosse was added in the middle of that period. If there's some confusion about UML, it may be because their hockey team was already fully D1-eligible, under the longstanding rule allowing D2 schools to play hockey in D1 due to D2's not sponsoring a championship in that sport.

I'm not aware of any rule that would restrict Utah's postseason eligibility.

Taking a stab at future d1's. Clemson and Elon

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:18 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:06 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

QuakerSouth wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:19 pm

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 amBoston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

What's that supposed to mean?

Wasn't a great school.
BC was going to close it's doors in the 1980's, especially after the sports betting scandals. Flutie saved the school from going under. So I have heard from the 6 family members that went to BC.
Endowment was on par with Boston State. Which had a better lacrosse team anyway

I don't put a ton of stock in USNW rankings but #38 ain't chopped liver.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/bo ... llege-2128

Similarly, the Forbes ranking methodology has some issues, too. Forbes has them in the same sort of range as USNW, though not as high on value for the dollar.
https://www.forbes.com/colleges/boston-college/

Rankings

Yup, as I said I don't put a ton of stock into such, but they certainly belie the not a 'great school' back of the hand you gave them. An awful lot of schools rank lower.

Rankings do provide at least some basis for comparison, though obviously you need to look at the criteria being used to measure and rank. Then consider whether those factors are actually meaningful. I offered two quite different ranking methodologies to provide for a range of how one can look at such questions.

I added a little color to my original post to provide a bit more context to my own experiences at BC.

Elon (and Davidson for that matter) are interesting in that they compete with Furman for applicants in the "SE USA High-Caliber Academics Private College League". Fears of losing out on strong applicants because they don't have a program would be a strong motivator to add men's lax. Sidenote and question for Title IX geeks - Davidson has football, but it's non-scholarship. Does that affect Title IX calculations or is it just athletes by gender?

Does Davidson even have 1,000 students these days? Adding a 35-50 person roster at a school that small would
Be interesting. For decades the did UE laundry for their students there...

Davidson has about 2,000 students. They gave up the laundry service during the Steph Curry years

Cheeseandcrackers wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:40 pm Elon (and Davidson for that matter) are interesting in that they compete with Furman for applicants in the "SE USA High-Caliber Academics Private College League". Fears of losing out on strong applicants because they don't have a program would be a strong motivator to add men's lax. Sidenote and question for Title IX geeks - Davidson has football, but it's non-scholarship. Does that affect Title IX calculations or is it just athletes by gender?

Scholarship distribution has to match gender distribution. If you have 50-50 gender balance in the student body, your scholarship distribution should be 50-50, too. It's about the grant-in-aid, as far as I know.