Has lacrosse “bubble” started to pop??

[Farfromgeneva]

The CT talk is crazy. Yeah the Asset managers are tired of the wrath transfers. GE was dying on the vine anyway so their move isn’t that big. The area around the casinos has always been ugly off the coast, New London has been eh since the shipbuilding dried up and I’ve been hearing about a Hartford recovery most of my life and I’m told it’s been going on since the 70s yet to materialize. Just spent a week in my hometown in section 4 NY and no worries there, where a cop was killed in a two of 50,000 my senior year and we had two dirty gangs (Mid Evil and Latin kings) as well as the largest refugee center for Laotians who will do some damage if they don’t like you. Where was Mike Leveille from-Watertown, ever been to Watertown, or most of these cities and burbs away from NYC.

After growing up in a hole of a declining city w lacrosse I spent 5 post college years in Dc then NYC. Anyone who thinks the game is tied to rich NE kids is either totally myopic or someone like Cabell maddux who’s life would be over if he couldn’t abuse parents and kids for money. Atlanta has crazy growth where I live now, it’s pretty much mature here and the city growth shows little sign of deceleration. Charlotte took a hit between BofA/Wachovia and NASCAR but the new combo bank will be based there and their lacrosse is getting stronger and broader by the second. There’s more activity and growth in general in Raleigh, Nashville and austin than any secondary/tertiary city along the coast from DC up.

This singular hysteria is way off based and saying new markets don’t matter just tells me it’s coming from a person who hasn’t spent much time outside the NE or in many of he parts of the NE that have been in decline since the 70s and still kicked out a good proportion of great lacrosse players. Some of those places have nowhere to go but up (in NY depending on what the parochial and self centered population of NYC wants to do with the rest of the state).

Lacrosse would die if it were as regional as claimed today. It can only survive by flattening or, becoming a bit more homogenous (unfortunately for pure old school fans who’ll be shutting in stock technology and body armor until the day they die).the idea that lacrosse dies with legacy wealthy parts of the northeast is so specious I have to applaud TLDs funny trolling.

In Saugatuck, a I heard Gucci Mane loud on porches everywhere and empty 40s of Old english all over the beach. It was a shame.

[ohmilax34]

NC St, UConn, many other D1 teams have been dropped or moved down. Issues with clubs are a serious problem but I don’t think any outcome of the lax experiment at Cleveland St. really says anything either way about the future of lax.

did i miss something?
is cleveland state dropping lacrosse?

I think pcow is implying that Cleveland State is not an attractive place to go to college and play lacrosse and that it's a sign the growth is stopping that they are one of the most recent D1 additions.

Another way to look at it might be that Cleveland State offers a low cost option for college compared with some of the other schools that offer D1 lacrosse in the midwest and this might be the beginning of a new bubble of expansion.

Attrractive?

Lets not kid ourselves. The walk over the Charles into Brighton for practice ain't the prettiest thing going, especially for those that have scene the failing infrastructure that are our bridges. (talking about Harvard ) Boston U, just a short float down the river, aint much better. A brisk drive out to the north west, and you got UMass Lowell. Lowell. Even the Lowell's , the Cabots, the Lawrences didn't live with the riff raff river hawks. Rutgers...yikes. Not making Architecture magazine. Even Yale's fans look at a delapidated building that looks like it once housed a WW one dirigible, and hasn't been repaired since.

In short, have YOU been to Cleveland state? (sohcahtoa is sohcahtoa, no matter where you go. )

How does it differ from Milwakee, or Staten Island?

Baltimore is one of the most unattractive cities in the USA.....enough on this.

You misunderstood what I meant by attractive.

[bearlaxfan]

Here in Madison the school population is down and high end home values have indeed never recovered from the downturn. That said, we are not yet spending winter nights down at the Surf Club in ratty trench coats, huddled around fires in 55 gallon drums*. The only thing I am clubbing these days are 5 irons into the fescue so I guess the 06443 is ruled out too. I suppose we will just have to suffer through in solidarity with those in the blighted wastelands of Darien and the posers in Southport.

* You had a barrel? Oh what I wouldn't give for a 55 gallon drum! (H/T Monty Python)

[Typical Lax Dad]

This entire thread has gotten out of control. Not sure if it is funny haha or funny woohoo.....

Here in Madison the school population is down and high end home values have indeed never recovered from the downturn. That said, we are not yet spending winter nights down at the Surf Club in ratty trench coats, huddled around fires in 55 gallon drums. The only thing I am clubbing these days are 5 irons into the fescue so I guess the 06443 is ruled out too. I suppose we will just have to suffer through in solidarity with those in the blighted wastelands of Darien and the posers in Southport.

Just hop over the river to the 06437 if it turns, all good in that hood. Can always go "clubbing" at the Lakes, although a 5 iron would be a bit much....

The homies still flippin’ pigeons when 5-0 roll into Guilford?

[pcowlax]

Here in Madison the school population is down and high end home values have indeed never recovered from the downturn. That said, we are not yet spending winter nights down at the Surf Club in ratty trench coats, huddled around fires in 55 gallon drums*. The only thing I am clubbing these days are 5 irons into the fescue so I guess the 06443 is ruled out too. I suppose we will just have to suffer through in solidarity with those in the blighted wastelands of Darien and the posers in Southport.

* You had a barrel? Oh what I wouldn't give for a 55 gallon drum! (H/T Monty Python)

Well played bearlax, it just builds and builds! Apologies to all out of staters for hijacking this thread and for the foolishness of primetime but I am really enjoying some CT banter. For you bearlax.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5 ... fullscreen

[Typical Lax Dad]

Here in Madison the school population is down and high end home values have indeed never recovered from the downturn. That said, we are not yet spending winter nights down at the Surf Club in ratty trench coats, huddled around fires in 55 gallon drums*. The only thing I am clubbing these days are 5 irons into the fescue so I guess the 06443 is ruled out too. I suppose we will just have to suffer through in solidarity with those in the blighted wastelands of Darien and the posers in Southport.

* You had a barrel? Oh what I wouldn't give for a 55 gallon drum! (H/T Monty Python)

Well played bearlax, it just builds and builds! Apologies to all out of staters for hijacking this thread and for the foolishness of primetime but I am really enjoying some CT banter. For you bearlax.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5 ... fullscreen

Thanks for posting that!

[HooDat]

palaxoff hits some of the high points, I have my own rant to add to the mix:

From the trenches in what has been one of the fastest growing "new" hotbeds, the high water mark on participation seems to be behind us. Participation rates at the youth level have plateaued or dropped in most areas, and new programs have slowed, particularly on the rec side - which is the future of the sport.

As palaxoff alludes (I think) - the Club System is to blame. The money grab has killed youth participation. Kids think they are done and not any good at the age of 11, when their rec team buddies get on the "Select" travel team and they don't. The early separation of friends, the money grab, and the requirement to pay-to-play year round or get left out is turning people off.

Maybe the trickle down of the new(ish) recruiting rules will help, but I think the genie is out of the bottle. I see rec leagues and training based off-season teams getting decimated by the club teams that will "get kids recruited" and allow them to play with the "best". What ever happened to playing with your friends and a handful of guys from your school and a few of the rival schools - THAT is what built the camaraderie of the sport.

[Typical Lax Dad]

palaxoff hits some of the high points, I have my own rant to add to the mix:

From the trenches in what has been one of the fastest growing "new" hotbeds, the high water mark on participation seems to be behind us. Participation rates at the youth level have plateaued or dropped in most areas, and new programs have slowed, particularly on the rec side - which is the future of the sport.

As palaxoff alludes (I think) - the Club System is to blame. The money grab has killed youth participation. Kids think they are done and not any good at the age of 11, when their rec team buddies get on the "Select" travel team and they don't. The early separation of friends, the money grab, and the requirement to pay-to-play year round or get left out is turning people off.

Maybe the trickle down of the new(ish) recruiting rules will help, but I think the genie is out of the bottle. I see rec leagues and training based off-season teams getting decimated by the club teams that will "get kids recruited" and allow them to play with the "best". What ever happened to playing with your friends and a handful of guys from your school and a few of the rival schools - THAT is what built the camaraderie of the sport.

Club Soccer, Club Lacrosse and AAU basketball have all been bad for participation. Just look at the NBA draft, today’s NBA draftee is not the same kid being drafted 15 years ago. You have to have some means, generally speaking. We missed the club lacrosse feeding frenzy by a year or two. Paid about $900 for the summer and that was expensive compared to soccer which was $1,900 for 10 months. Both have since exploded. I wish kids had more opportunities to play pickup with local instruction.

[HooDat]

I wish kids had more opportunities to play pickup with local instruction.

probably the best times I ever had playing were in summer league as a high schooler playing with a broad mix of guys (high school, college, post college). $20 and they handed you a colored t-shirt, provided refs and fields, and you played.....

[MDlaxfan76]

I wish kids had more opportunities to play pickup with local instruction.

probably the best times I ever had playing were in summer league as a high schooler playing with a broad mix of guys (high school, college, post college). $20 and they handed you a colored t-shirt, provided refs and fields, and you played.....

Heroes Lacrosse...Tuesday and Thursday nights

[hooligan88]

You’re all missing it.



And dont get me started on “growth markets.” In TX and FL lax is for losers. Like the magic club or marching band. We’re banking on the white neighborhoods of Baltimore, Long Island, Westchester/Fairfield County and Bethesda to carry our game. It’s looking grim.

This is a joke right? Yes football is still the king in those states but they do have top notch athletes playing lax. Most are 2 sport athletes football and lacrosse. The rise of players from those states being on D1 rosters is a testament to that. Plus the kids there can play lacrosse year round. I feel like you have no clue outside your bubble.

[MDlaxfan76]

You’re all missing it.



And dont get me started on “growth markets.” In TX and FL lax is for losers. Like the magic club or marching band. We’re banking on the white neighborhoods of Baltimore, Long Island, Westchester/Fairfield County and Bethesda to carry our game. It’s looking grim.

This is a joke right? Yes football is still the king in those states but they do have top notch athletes playing lax. Most are 2 sport athletes football and lacrosse. The rise of players from those states being on D1 rosters is a testament to that. Plus the kids there can play lacrosse year round. I feel like you have no clue outside your bubble.

I'm thinking there's been a lot of tongue in cheek on this thread...we need a sarcasm emoji to be sure

Most folks know there's continued growth in the numbers and excellence of the players and programs outside the old hot beds.

On the other hand, there does appear to be some legitimate cause for concern due to the money grab of club ball.

[hooligan88]

I get it. Anyone who cares about the sport should always be concerned. As the keepers of the game everyone needs to find ways to help with the growth. In the end its really my favorite sport of all.

[Farfromgeneva]

[quote=hooligan88 post_id=64993 time=<a href="tel:1562949865">1562949865</a> user_id=452]
[quote=PrimeTime21 post_id=64862 time=<a href="tel:1562890844">1562890844</a> user_id=1153]
You’re all missing it.



And dont get me started on “growth markets.” In TX and FL lax is for losers. Like the magic club or marching band. We’re banking on the white neighborhoods of Baltimore, Long Island, Westchester/Fairfield County and Bethesda to carry our game. It’s looking grim.

This is a joke right? Yes football is still the king in those states but they do have top notch athletes playing lax. Most are 2 sport athletes football and lacrosse. The rise of players from those states being on D1 rosters is a testament to that. Plus the kids there can play lacrosse year round. I feel like you have no clue outside your bubble.
[/quote]

I'm thinking there's been a lot of tongue in cheek on this thread...we need a sarcasm emoji to be sure

Most folks know there's continued growth in the numbers and excellence of the players and programs outside the old hot beds.

On the other hand, there does appear to be some legitimate cause for concern due to the money grab of club ball.
[/quote]

Ok, but does CSU losing their HC for a “trade down” in some eyes mean the proportionate response is to start a thread about the inflection point to the decline in the sport in the US? Anyone want to consider that wealth is flowing to the growth regions from the traditional ones? Old line sallied Bernstein moving their hq to Nashville, David Tepper/Brett hildene and a whole host of billionaires moving from the tri state to FL, NC, tx, sometimes the Virgin Islands. Maybe the next 20yrs will see the club scene in other areas replace the dough. God o hope not, but I just don’t see this woe is me, CT finally got what was coming for decades of nonsense (I financed properties for bob Matthews who was deeply and illegally hooked into Gov Rowland for those who know CT history)

[pcowlax]

In CT now we dream of Rowland compared to the unfathomable idiocy of the past two. All of the posts about CT other than Primetime, obviously, were sarcastic mocking of his ridiculous description of CT as a blasted wasteland due to a few hedge funds leaving. And no, something I posted which seemed to launched much of this furor was that the CSU coach leaving, or CSU folding lax or CSU lax thriving, none of these have any bearing on the future trajectory of lax as a sport. Cleveland St. for gods sake is not the canary. Declining participation in more recent expansion regions due to the cost and time commitment of clubs certainly could be. I will say however that soccer has survived decades of escalating club costs, weekly summer tournaments and, vastly more threatening than anything in lax, full shifting of top players out of even the clubs and to year round ODP and they are still doing OK. Plenty to criticize about clubs but they need not spell the end of lacrosse.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In CT now we dream of Rowland compared to the unfathomable idiocy of the past two. All of the posts about CT other than Primetime, obviously, were sarcastic mocking of his ridiculous description of CT as a blasted wasteland due to a few hedge funds leaving. And no, something I posted which seemed to launched much of this furor was that the CSU coach leaving, or CSU folding lax or CSU lax thriving, none of these have any bearing on the future trajectory of lax as a sport. Cleveland St. for gods sake is not the canary. Declining participation in more recent expansion regions due to the cost and time commitment of clubs certainly could be. I will say however that soccer has survived decades of escalating club costs, weekly summer tournaments and, vastly more threatening than anything in lax, full shifting of top players out of even the clubs and to year round ODP and they are still doing OK. Plenty to criticize about clubs but they need not spell the end of lacrosse.

Soccer is cracking. It is not even what is was just 10-12 years ago in CT. Still plenty of clubs but the overall level has dropped. It’s remarkable.

[HooDat]

You’re all missing it.



And dont get me started on “growth markets.” In TX and FL lax is for losers. Like the magic club or marching band. We’re banking on the white neighborhoods of Baltimore, Long Island, Westchester/Fairfield County and Bethesda to carry our game. It’s looking grim.

This is a joke right? Yes football is still the king in those states but they do have top notch athletes playing lax. Most are 2 sport athletes football and lacrosse. The rise of players from those states being on D1 rosters is a testament to that. Plus the kids there can play lacrosse year round. I feel like you have no clue outside your bubble.

I'm thinking there's been a lot of tongue in cheek on this thread...we need a sarcasm emoji to be sure

Most folks know there's continued growth in the numbers and excellence of the players and programs outside the old hot beds.

On the other hand, there does appear to be some legitimate cause for concern due to the money grab of club ball.

The quality of some programs in Texas is a fact. Texas is not only producing top players/athletes but also fields some fantastic high school teams.

I speak from the front lines, and, the things i said about youth rec lax and the impacts from Club Ball are also facts in the Lone Star state. My take is we have hit peak participation in Texas.

[wgdsr]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rec ... 43e9a792f1

screens, $$, dual incomes, lack of access, the decline of middle schools hosting teams and passing it off to outsiders... lot of factors. most are intertwined. hopefully, it's a pendulum and swings back, but sometimes that is difficult to do. and in this instance, i see it as more than difficult given the tailwinds and headwinds, demographics.

getting back to those days where rec leagues produced guys bringing buddies after they discovered the sport, those kind of secondary school experiences is getting more difficult by the day. i do believe the growth outside the hotbeds provides that kind of opportunity, hopefully it won't continue to morph into a focus on club proliferation. see more and more of them from georgia/texas/ohio/midwest/florida/west. if the rec side doesn't keep pace, it'll be more of the same and doomed to repeat.

[HooDat]

hopefully it won't continue to morph into a focus on club proliferation. see more and more of them from georgia/texas/ohio/midwest/florida/west.

It already has in Texas

[ABV 8.3%]

In CT now we dream of Rowland compared to the unfathomable idiocy of the past two. All of the posts about CT other than Primetime, obviously, were sarcastic mocking of his ridiculous description of CT as a blasted wasteland due to a few hedge funds leaving. And no, something I posted which seemed to launched much of this furor was that the CSU coach leaving, or CSU folding lax or CSU lax thriving, none of these have any bearing on the future trajectory of lax as a sport. Cleveland St. for gods sake is not the canary. Declining participation in more recent expansion regions due to the cost and time commitment of clubs certainly could be. I will say however that soccer has survived decades of escalating club costs, weekly summer tournaments and, vastly more threatening than anything in lax, full shifting of top players out of even the clubs and to year round ODP and they are still doing OK. Plenty to criticize about clubs but they need not spell the end of lacrosse.

On the men's side? gotta be kidding me. Has the mens national team ever scored a goal in regulation time? Didn't even make it into the World Cup. pathetic. Guess all those club players are good