LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:28 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:59 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:29 pm Damned blue cities are screwing up our stats: https://www.instagram.com/p/CtNhKibR3Xd/

Don't you just love really stupid use of "statistics" to supposedly make a partisan point...but it most definitely does not, making it all the more stupid...

Come on, man...
Callen's an idiot, apparently/allegedly also a sexual abuser, but hey, that's a feature not a bug these days on the right.

Higher per capita gun violence in rural versus urban

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... -rcna81462

And most of the urban cities with highest per capita gun homicides are in red states...not all, but most.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder ... -s-cities/

But hey, let's cherry pick some of the larger blue cities in the US and pretend that if they weren't included we wouldn't also have the highest gun violence per capita in the world...per capita.

ugh so dumb.

But pretty on point fact checking in the comments section, so there's that...

It’s really just simple addition and subtraction. I didn’t do the math….did you? If you subtract total gun deaths from the major cities in the US, does it then rank us much further down as they suggest? It’s a yes or no. That is all.

Or was your goal to just name call someone, once again? You like calling other people names…..not sure where that comes from.

Let’s assume he’s correct, which he likely is close. Furthering the conversation, those places also have significant gun laws, which are clearly ignored. Then, if 2A is never going to budge…..we have to figure out how to lower those numbers in the places and people that are in the higher percentile to make a significant difference.

So let’s talk about it…..why are the numbers so high in these cities, then how do you curtail those numbers……while at the same time screaming to reduce police forces and defunding them.

Maybe if we name call more people, they’ll be less shootings?

youth, you are smarter than that.

Sure, if you subtract a big percentage of our population, the US would not rank as high. duh.

But subtract the counties with the highest per capita gun violence, which are rural, to add up to the same population subtraction and we'd rank way lower...uhh ohh, those are red counties.

Or, if you want to stay urban, subtract the worst urban centers in red states to add up to the same population as the worst in blue states, and also lower...uhh ohh, there's goes that argument.

Yes, it's a really stupid use of "math" or "statistics" to suggest as a valid conclusion that blue state gun laws are the problem in America. The opposite conclusion is a much more valid argument. Clearly. Math.

But here's the thing, is this guy really that stupid?
Or does he just want to be incendiary and gain right wing followers?
I say he's a grifter; 4 women say he's a sexual abuser.

Now if you want to talk about "defund the police", I quite agree, that ain't the answer (police reform being important, we need more good cops in the areas, not less). Our current President agrees with me. The mass of elected Dem officials agree with me. Heck, our Dem mayor in Baltimore agrees with me. You may recall that I'm a Republican? sure old school, but nonetheless...

But as long as you want to talk about that different subject, how do you feel about these MAGA Republicans in Congress, "screaming to defund" law enforcement, the FBI and DOJ? Who cares about drug and human traffickers, illegal gun traffickers, terrorists, etc? Seriously, does anyone really believe that the FBI is a left wing organization? Do you?

Back to gun laws. Yup, we have a horrible gun culture in America, we're awash in guns, and way too many idiots have no respect for life, not their own, not the lives of children and other innocent bystanders. Everything needs to be solved by guns and more guns..wait, really?

The issue for the states which have tough gun laws is that their neighbors do not, so it's immensely profitable and darn easy to simply smuggle them across state lines to those happy to buy them.

I'm a gun owner, and like most gun owners, I want much more restriction on who can acquire weapons and for what purpose, as well as the type of weapons...I've detailed my views and policy prescriptions previously, pretty darn thoroughly. But it needs to be national policy, with ample funding to enforce.

Bottomline, we need to change the culture to one in which we All understand that owning a weapon is a privilege and a responsibility. They are immensely dangerous and need to be handled with great respect and care. And no one unwilling to do so should have one, period.

So you agree with him, the math shakes out and we go from 3 to189ish...the first point is closed, we can move on.

To your first point in bold...
Question 1, what separates you and I from the 'idiots'?

2nd point in Bold...
This gets to the point he is making, there IS a 'Culture' issue. And yes, he mentions blue, but that was NOT the reason he mentioned the gun issue so...
Question 2, IS the issue really that owning a gun is a privilege and a responsibility..as you and I both agree OR are we back to number 1 again?

Where is the breakdown in morality, virtue, character, faith, etc happening and why?, so that would turn idiots, into responsible people?

Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

What's your hypothesis?

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:51 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

What's your hypothesis?

Don't have one.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:47 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:51 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

What's your hypothesis?

Don't have one.

Maybe the owners have been trafficking illegal guns, or failed to pay taxes on sales of legal guns? But, for my money, we should just jump right over those possibilities and get to and push "they are taking our guns" narrative so we can build the frenzy among the gun-fetishism population.

Note that the owner says that State Officials have been surveilling him too. That Deep State is just getting bigger and bigger.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

DMac wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:17 pm

Bottomline, we need to change the culture to one in which we All understand that owning a weapon is a privilege and a responsibility. They are immensely dangerous and need to be handled with great respect and care. And no one unwilling to do so should have one, period.

Assignment for you, MDlax, must watch ten minutes of this.
How many of Dark Shark and Butter Bean's friends could not
buy some of the many guns available for purchase?
We in trouble, brotha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikReKia5eC4

Am thinking you missed this, MDlax, as the page flipped right after I posted it. Am curious as to what you (all others can participate as well) think about which one(s) of these folks would be turned down for a gun purchase. I'm thinking one, Mr. Cactus Lander (you gotta watch that) but the rest likely can. 2A and all, ya know.
Yup, we in trouble.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:28 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:59 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:29 pm Damned blue cities are screwing up our stats: https://www.instagram.com/p/CtNhKibR3Xd/

Don't you just love really stupid use of "statistics" to supposedly make a partisan point...but it most definitely does not, making it all the more stupid...

Come on, man...
Callen's an idiot, apparently/allegedly also a sexual abuser, but hey, that's a feature not a bug these days on the right.

Higher per capita gun violence in rural versus urban

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... -rcna81462

And most of the urban cities with highest per capita gun homicides are in red states...not all, but most.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder ... -s-cities/

But hey, let's cherry pick some of the larger blue cities in the US and pretend that if they weren't included we wouldn't also have the highest gun violence per capita in the world...per capita.

ugh so dumb.

But pretty on point fact checking in the comments section, so there's that...

It’s really just simple addition and subtraction. I didn’t do the math….did you? If you subtract total gun deaths from the major cities in the US, does it then rank us much further down as they suggest? It’s a yes or no. That is all.

Or was your goal to just name call someone, once again? You like calling other people names…..not sure where that comes from.

Let’s assume he’s correct, which he likely is close. Furthering the conversation, those places also have significant gun laws, which are clearly ignored. Then, if 2A is never going to budge…..we have to figure out how to lower those numbers in the places and people that are in the higher percentile to make a significant difference.

So let’s talk about it…..why are the numbers so high in these cities, then how do you curtail those numbers……while at the same time screaming to reduce police forces and defunding them.

Maybe if we name call more people, they’ll be less shootings?

youth, you are smarter than that.

Sure, if you subtract a big percentage of our population, the US would not rank as high. duh.

But subtract the counties with the highest per capita gun violence, which are rural, to add up to the same population subtraction and we'd rank way lower...uhh ohh, those are red counties.

Or, if you want to stay urban, subtract the worst urban centers in red states to add up to the same population as the worst in blue states, and also lower...uhh ohh, there's goes that argument.

Yes, it's a really stupid use of "math" or "statistics" to suggest as a valid conclusion that blue state gun laws are the problem in America. The opposite conclusion is a much more valid argument. Clearly. Math.

But here's the thing, is this guy really that stupid?
Or does he just want to be incendiary and gain right wing followers?
I say he's a grifter; 4 women say he's a sexual abuser.

Now if you want to talk about "defund the police", I quite agree, that ain't the answer (police reform being important, we need more good cops in the areas, not less). Our current President agrees with me. The mass of elected Dem officials agree with me. Heck, our Dem mayor in Baltimore agrees with me. You may recall that I'm a Republican? sure old school, but nonetheless...

But as long as you want to talk about that different subject, how do you feel about these MAGA Republicans in Congress, "screaming to defund" law enforcement, the FBI and DOJ? Who cares about drug and human traffickers, illegal gun traffickers, terrorists, etc? Seriously, does anyone really believe that the FBI is a left wing organization? Do you?

Back to gun laws. Yup, we have a horrible gun culture in America, we're awash in guns, and way too many idiots have no respect for life, not their own, not the lives of children and other innocent bystanders. Everything needs to be solved by guns and more guns..wait, really?

The issue for the states which have tough gun laws is that their neighbors do not, so it's immensely profitable and darn easy to simply smuggle them across state lines to those happy to buy them.

I'm a gun owner, and like most gun owners, I want much more restriction on who can acquire weapons and for what purpose, as well as the type of weapons...I've detailed my views and policy prescriptions previously, pretty darn thoroughly. But it needs to be national policy, with ample funding to enforce.

Bottomline, we need to change the culture to one in which we All understand that owning a weapon is a privilege and a responsibility. They are immensely dangerous and need to be handled with great respect and care. And no one unwilling to do so should have one, period.

So you agree with him, the math shakes out and we go from 3 to189ish...the first point is closed, we can move on.

To your first point in bold...
Question 1, what separates you and I from the 'idiots'?

2nd point in Bold...
This gets to the point he is making, there IS a 'Culture' issue. And yes, he mentions blue, but that was NOT the reason he mentioned the gun issue so...
Question 2, IS the issue really that owning a gun is a privilege and a responsibility..as you and I both agree OR are we back to number 1 again?

Where is the breakdown in morality, virtue, character, faith, etc happening and why?, so that would turn idiots, into responsible people?

That's your takeaway, he's right? Or that I agree with him?

Maybe you're just being facetious?

No, we don't move to 189th: it's an entirely invalid point.
If you remove the population centers proportionally (remove same % of pop) from every country then ok, but guess what, you're actually likely to see us look even worse given our prevalence rate in rural areas. That may or may not be the case in other countries, so the comparison may be even worse.

The IDIOT/GRIFTER makes the "blue" law argument, not me...but the truth is that red states have higher per capita gun violence than blue states. Both are too high, but if we're going to try to use statistics to justify such an argument, then we need to do honest math. Not BS to try to force fit to a narrative.

I laid this out...are you ignoring it?

OK, what separates me, and hopefully you, from the IDIOTS...is that we can not only discern where statistics are being used honestly, we're open to such analysis even if we didn't see it out of the box that someone was trying to grift us.

I don't know whether this guy is more IDIOT than GRIFTER, but it doesn't really matter as long as you focus on the actual analysis.

Question 2 is interesting. I'm saying that the culture needs to change from one in which gun ownership and usage is not a "right", much less an "unregulated right" but rather a "privilege and responsibility".

That's the culture shift. Where MY desire to use a gun does not supercede society's interests that such usage is safe.

I'm 100% ok, as a hunter, with such, but I don't think that extends to settling whatever grievance or fear or depression I may have with a gun. It doesn't extend to me getting a "macho" thrill from creating carnage, or imagining doing so.

And sure, there's ALSO a culture issue of a lack of respect for life.
More guns definitely contributes to a cycle of violence, but I'd agree it's not solvable solely by reduction in guns.

I'd say there's two main sources of the respect for life problem: 1) those who have little or no expectation of their own lives being fruitful and 2) those who have hate in their hearts due to some bigotry.

On the first, the solutions need to address why they have so little hope. Health, education, jobs, etc.

The second needs to be addressed at confronting those bigotries, education and encouragement to 'know one another'.

You asked "where is the breakdown in morality, virtue, character, faith, etc happening and why?"

I don't think those are directly on point, but I do think it's all interrelated though not entirely as you may mean.

For instance, if rural areas and red states have higher rates per capita of gun violence, then we'd have to say that there's some relationship to such "breakdown", right?

Is it that where poverty is high, where hope is low, violence is likely to be high...and when guns are prevalent, they're the weapons of choice. And we're awash in guns.

Urban violence is most concentrated in neighborhoods where poverty is high, not affluent areas...and red states and rural areas are poorer, on average, than urban and blue...but the common factor on the prevalence of violence is the poverty.

If you're asking me whether I think "morality, virtue, character, faith" can help, sure. But hope and reality may be much more helpful. Can they go together? Sure.

But if one is making an appeal to "religion" as the solution, I'd refer to multiple scenses of The Godfather...or 9-11... or Tree of Life...or...

I see a huge overlap with certain types of "religiosity" with sharp bigotries, so the amount of church going doesn't seem to be a driver of less bigotry, right?

Not the way I experience religion, sure, and I assume you do, but when you see the pulpit grifters preaching anger and grievance and hate, as if biblically justified, whoa nelly. Religiously espoused "Intact families" with domineering and abusive husbands and "patriarchs", are not the answer, either. If we're making biblically 'justified' demands that children not learn about sexuality and gender in a way that affirms self-esteem and mutual respect, and instead need to be shamed...

I can go on and on, but hopefully you'll see my point.

DMac wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:11 pm

DMac wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:17 pm

Bottomline, we need to change the culture to one in which we All understand that owning a weapon is a privilege and a responsibility. They are immensely dangerous and need to be handled with great respect and care. And no one unwilling to do so should have one, period.

Assignment for you, MDlax, must watch ten minutes of this.
How many of Dark Shark and Butter Bean's friends could not
buy some of the many guns available for purchase?
We in trouble, brotha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikReKia5eC4

Am thinking you missed this, MDlax, as the page flipped right after I posted it. Am curious as to what you (all others can participate as well) think about which one(s) of these folks would be turned down for a gun purchase. I'm thinking one, Mr. Cactus Lander (you gotta watch that) but the rest likely can. 2A and all, ya know.
Yup, we in trouble.

Yop, we in trubble.

Man, that guy...half teeth.

Gotta say, I don't think I had seen any of the shows or movies and probably never will...

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

sorry, perhaps I should have said "right wing slanted and inflammatory"...it's a pretty naked appeal to a particular audience.

My point is that when media coverage has a pretty clear slant, then we would benefit from clarification as to whether the poster agrees or disagrees with that slant, and why.

Else the default assumption would naturally be that the poster agrees.

Would apply to an inflammatory left wing slant as well.

IMO, many of these attacks on the credibility and integrity of federal law enforcement are founded in partisan interests or sheer grift. And I think they're dangerous. Potentially very dangerous. It only takes a handful of nutcases.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:54 pm
Yop, we in trubble.

Man, that guy...half teeth.

Gotta say, I don't think I had seen any of the shows or movies and probably never will...

Ya gotta have a little taste.
I might be wrong, when he puts his teeth in he can speak so he might well be able to buy a gun.
2A and all, ya know.
Check him out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM1oYF5SLpA

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:25 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

sorry, perhaps I should have said "right wing slanted and inflammatory"...it's a pretty naked appeal to a particular audience.

My point is that when media coverage has a pretty clear slant, then we would benefit from clarification as to whether the poster agrees or disagrees with that slant, and why.

Else the default assumption would naturally be that the poster agrees.

Would apply to an inflammatory left wing slant as well.

IMO, many of these attacks on the credibility and integrity of federal law enforcement are founded in partisan interests or sheer grift. And I think they're dangerous. Potentially very dangerous. It only takes a handful of nutcases.

My oldest son is a member of federal law enforcement. He knows the drill inside and out. The level of mistrust of federal law enforcement is not justified at officers that are field agents.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:48 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:25 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

sorry, perhaps I should have said "right wing slanted and inflammatory"...it's a pretty naked appeal to a particular audience.

My point is that when media coverage has a pretty clear slant, then we would benefit from clarification as to whether the poster agrees or disagrees with that slant, and why.

Else the default assumption would naturally be that the poster agrees.

Would apply to an inflammatory left wing slant as well.

IMO, many of these attacks on the credibility and integrity of federal law enforcement are founded in partisan interests or sheer grift. And I think they're dangerous. Potentially very dangerous. It only takes a handful of nutcases.

My oldest son is a member of federal law enforcement. He knows the drill inside and out. The level of mistrust of federal law enforcement is not justified at officers that are field agents.

Yup, but those are also the guys who go up the ranks.
At all levels, they don't deserve that mistrust.

Doesn't mean that there are no bad field agents, no bad managers, no bad prosecutors, etc.
Just very few overall and they sure as heck don't skew lefty.

Extremely few folks are political appointees and at least historically the appointments have not been highly partisan, much less corruptly so.

When you see career people resign in protest over decisions by political appointees, that does deserve scrutiny, but otherwise expect equal handed justice. It's very rare to see protest resignations...but we did see it multiple times during the Barr tenure as AG. I don't recall it happening with Sessions.

Obviously the rich and powerful have systemic advantages throughout our justice system, but that's a different factor.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:15 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:48 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:25 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

sorry, perhaps I should have said "right wing slanted and inflammatory"...it's a pretty naked appeal to a particular audience.

My point is that when media coverage has a pretty clear slant, then we would benefit from clarification as to whether the poster agrees or disagrees with that slant, and why.

Else the default assumption would naturally be that the poster agrees.

Would apply to an inflammatory left wing slant as well.

IMO, many of these attacks on the credibility and integrity of federal law enforcement are founded in partisan interests or sheer grift. And I think they're dangerous. Potentially very dangerous. It only takes a handful of nutcases.

My oldest son is a member of federal law enforcement. He knows the drill inside and out. The level of mistrust of federal law enforcement is not justified at officers that are field agents.

Yup, but those are also the guys who go up the ranks.
At all levels, they don't deserve that mistrust.

Doesn't mean that there are no bad field agents, no bad managers, no bad prosecutors, etc.
Just very few overall and they sure as heck don't skew lefty.

Extremely few folks are political appointees and at least historically the appointments have not been highly partisan, much less corruptly so.

When you see career people resign in protest over decisions by political appointees, that does deserve scrutiny, but otherwise expect equal handed justice. It's very rare to see protest resignations...but we did see it multiple times during the Barr tenure as AG. I don't recall it happening with Sessions.

Obviously the rich and powerful have systemic advantages throughout our justice system, but that's a different factor.

My son resigned from the FAM service for just that reason. New management, new rules and brand new chaos in how the service would function from now on. A ton of experienced Air Marshalls chose to go elsewhere to serve. I believe the deal breaker was agents drawing duty for international flights and how difficult it is on young agents with a family. My son is a US Postal Inspector now and loves it.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have a pretty wide circle. You would be surprised at who I actually saw and talked to today…..actually a USNA grad that you know. An older guy….and this certain someone said….. “I was just talking about you to someone last week”….

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:22 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have a pretty wide circle. You would be surprised at who I actually saw and talked to today…..actually a USNA grad that you know. An older guy….and this certain someone said….. “I was just talking about you to someone last week”….

Did you wish him Happy Birthday?

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:02 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:15 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:48 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:25 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:19 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:38 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:34 pm Wonder why? https://ksenam.com/developing-story-irs ... gun-store/

Wonder why you posted it….? Just putting it out there….

uh.....it's a forum, to discuss topics, in a thread about guns and safety, and is a current event about such. Maybe you already knew about this while talking to a friend, just last week.

I have zero issue with you posting it, indeed it's interesting that the media source is treating this as if a federal overreach instead of the very high likelihood of criminal activity...by those breaking the law. The ATF makes such raids all the time, and IMO they should be doing so when they have probable cause...and if they suspect that local law enforcement is purposely giving them cover, then you darn sure don't give them forward notice.

But I do think having some sort of view of what you post is important to clarify, especially when the media source appears to be inflammatory. It otherwise gives the pretty understandable impression that you are aligned with your source's take...

If you agree with that take, fine...just say why.

When you state that " appears to be inflammatory" is you stating your opinion. How do you define what appears to be inflammatory when any possible definition is subjective to how a person interprets it?

sorry, perhaps I should have said "right wing slanted and inflammatory"...it's a pretty naked appeal to a particular audience.

My point is that when media coverage has a pretty clear slant, then we would benefit from clarification as to whether the poster agrees or disagrees with that slant, and why.

Else the default assumption would naturally be that the poster agrees.

Would apply to an inflammatory left wing slant as well.

IMO, many of these attacks on the credibility and integrity of federal law enforcement are founded in partisan interests or sheer grift. And I think they're dangerous. Potentially very dangerous. It only takes a handful of nutcases.

My oldest son is a member of federal law enforcement. He knows the drill inside and out. The level of mistrust of federal law enforcement is not justified at officers that are field agents.

Yup, but those are also the guys who go up the ranks.
At all levels, they don't deserve that mistrust.

Doesn't mean that there are no bad field agents, no bad managers, no bad prosecutors, etc.
Just very few overall and they sure as heck don't skew lefty.

Extremely few folks are political appointees and at least historically the appointments have not been highly partisan, much less corruptly so.

When you see career people resign in protest over decisions by political appointees, that does deserve scrutiny, but otherwise expect equal handed justice. It's very rare to see protest resignations...but we did see it multiple times during the Barr tenure as AG. I don't recall it happening with Sessions.

Obviously the rich and powerful have systemic advantages throughout our justice system, but that's a different factor.

My son resigned from the FAM service for just that reason. New management, new rules and brand new chaos in how the service would function from now on. A ton of experienced Air Marshalls chose to go elsewhere to serve. I believe the deal breaker was agents drawing duty for international flights and how difficult it is on young agents with a family. My son is a US Postal Inspector now and loves it.

Did he do international a decade or so ago? Guy I knew growing up who’s got all sorts of issues* got escorted off a plane to NY then-https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/ma ... rk-flight/

* dude is/has bi polar, schizo, was involuntarily committed by govt in first week after getting into foreign service officer program, on third try, for losing it in training and bouncing off walls about 5-6yrs before this happened-no idea what he’s going to do when his parents pass bc he’s pretty dysfunctional these days.