cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:56 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:24 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:59 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:15 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:10 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:10 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:50 pm
Climate change is a hoax to take your money.
So your position, so eloquently stated, is that the climate is not changing?
Outside of worrying yourself sick, what is your solution? Is it the holy trinity of veggie burgers, electric cars and renewable energy?
No "solution" per se, but before we can have a reasoned discussion of the probable outcomes and possible preparations to minimize the unpleasantness that awaits, we need to proceed from a position of shared acceptance of reality.
Certain parties intransigence is simultaneously irksome and delusional.
I understand your point. Your debating a problem whose possible solution is 100 years down the road. Nobody really knows for certain what the solutions should be. It is ironic that at this time some of the proposed solutions just happen to dovetail very nicely with the personal agendas of certain people. If you are vegan.. meat is the problem. If you despise the internal combustion engine.. electric cars will save the planet. If renewable energy is your thing.. solar panels and wind mills will save the planet. What a coincidence the alleged solutions just happen to fit some people's agenda for other unrelated issues.
hmmm, I'm certainly not a vegan, but I think that the alternative meats, including lab grown, have enormous promise to reduce emissions, reduce water consumption, be completely sustainable, and enable food security globally. We're well away from that, but the current trajectory of meat needs would otherwise be disastrous and incapable of being sustained.
Same for aquaculture. There's no chance of feeding the world through wild caught without destroying our oceans, with disastrous ripple effects.
I don't know anyone who "despises the internal combustion engine". I do know lots of folks who think we can eventually have a great transportation experience without it. Gotta make it affordable and ubiquitous, but certainly foreseeable. EDIT...I do "despise" the a-hole who goes by our house every night making the absolute most sound he can from his machine. Jerk.
Personally, I doubt that wind is the answer, though a piece of the puzzle for now. Tidal has some promise, similarly. Solar seems to have the most promise, if we can get it distributed ubiquitously, at low cost.
In all of this, high storage capacity and more efficient transmission when necessary are key components.
As an American capitalist and entrepreneur, I sure as heck hope that there will be lots of Americans who make a lot of dough off of these efforts.
My point is MD, and i disagree strongly with most of your opinions, is this. When did allegedly climate change become a problem? I remember vividly in HS around 1974 that we were being told global cooling was the problem. I am nowhere near as smart as many of you folks. I can do some simple math. The bugaboo issue is about PPM co2 in the atmosphere. I guess there is proper ratio there that has to be maintained to prevent CC/GW. So that co2 ppm has been a problem for 50 plus or more years. There are no solutions on the horizon that correct that ratio that could be accomplished in the next 20 years as a best case scenario. That means if we do reach some unknowable tipping point it will be 50 plus years until planet earth is back to its happy place. So in the real world it will will take 100 years to correct this. That is an attempt to fix a problem that only exists in the world of computer models. We will spend trillions, and trillions and trillions of dollars hoping to fix a problem any rational scientist will tell you we barely understand. What we will get out of it is tasty veggie burgers, electric cars and some really cool solar panels. That is what we need to do to save the planet?
Not to put too fine a point on it, we're good and f%cked. Period. The current amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has implications for the future that are now manifesting themselves a a higher rate: changes to hydrological cycle - evaporation, precipitation, ocean warming and acidification, ocean current change - heat and nutrient transfer mechanisms.
So, the things we rely upon for life - water, oxygen, and and fairly narrow temperature range, are changing rapidly. Homo sapiens and its progenitors "adapted" via selection pressures over the course of millions of years, with the last 10K representing the "golden age" of hominid expansion due to unusually stable conditions. Earth has not had many periods of said stability throughout its history as discernible via geological analysis. Recent analysis of CO2 release from carbon sinks such as peat bogs and lignin (brown coal) indicagte that the activities of humans have been modifu=ying the biome over the past 4-6K years. Humans have been having an increasing influence on the environment, but the progression has not been linear. The explosion of the population since the turn of the 20th century due to signiifcant reduxtions in infectious disease mortality due to antibiotics and the increase in food production (amusing known as the "green" revolution) have led to a non-linear increase in population. Couple that with increased utilization and "freeing" of stored carbon via use of petroleum products and you arrive at our current situation:
Too many people using too many resources within a rapidly changing system that will not support the current paradigm (energy, water, and natural resource utilization) much longer.
So, who cares what the "Chicoms" are doing? Who cares what any subset of the world population is doing? The is only one space lifeboat (we call it Earth) and we are all stuck in it together. Things are about to get really different, really fast -- see release of methane from thawing of the permafrost in Siberia and the melting of methane hydrate in the oceans (methane is a much more "potent" insulator for solar energy than CO2).
With all of these inter-related systems such as hydrology and meteorology achieving ever-increasing rates of change, it is very, very likely that they will start to interact in ways (cascading inflection points) that we and our "models" have not and cannot accurately predict. However, whatever these changes will be, they will most certainly NOT be beneficial for the continued existence of the human species, which is dependent on a very small operating environment.
If you regard this exposition to be "doom and gloom" and negative, don't read it. Continue blithely on your way to a dusty death...
"To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing." -- Wm. Shakespeare
Only in this case it will be lights out for all of humanity.
