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MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:48 am Well, this exchange being boiled down into to simplistic, absolutist statements demonstrates why peace is so difficult.

The situation is not remotely simplistic nor ever going to be solved by people who hold absolutist views.

tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:52 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:48 am Well, this exchange being boiled down into to simplistic, absolutist statements demonstrates why peace is so difficult.

The situation is not remotely simplistic nor ever going to be solved by people who hold absolutist views.

Nice try MDlax "absolutionist" like, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran's leaders, aka... the terrorists

tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:34 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:28 am

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:11 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:27 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:42 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:33 am Israel's secular elite contemplates a silent departure. This article represents the thinking of well informed members of Israel's secular elite. This has been clear to me for some time as a likely outcome of Bibi's move to the fascist right. This is not the Arabs driving these elites out. There are too many places for freedom loving well educated secular Jews to move too for this not to be the case. These are the same type of people who left Germany and Italy before WW2, that moved to the US.

...it truly takes a smart person to comprehend the thought of war and bombs potentially killing you to move away. It IS the very reason they are in this fight, b/c of terrorist regimes, mostly Iran, fugging up the opportunity of peace.

Any chance we can get an answer, have not seen one yet? viewtopic.php?p=583425#p583425

... these people are moving not because of bombs, they are moving because their government is willing to let the bombings go on, in order to preserve the government. A government which exists, its only reason for being is to fight a war that no one but the government and some religious nuts want and delusionally think they can win. Israel under the current regime is a failed state. The people leaving have come to the conclusion they are not willing to fight for the government. The current Israel and its leaders can only exist in a state of war!!! This is why the secular elites are leaving. There is no place for them or their dreams in this state. The juice isn't worth the squeeze!!


.... and things for them are very likely going to get much much worse, if they stay.


PS - you want an answer to a question that will take a whole thread to answer. There is no short answer -- besides "I want peace in the middle east other than the peace of the dead!"

Thanks for your response. I understand it is complex situation and that we all want peace, except for those inserting terrorism in the name of the Caliphate that only they seek.

What I do not understand and maybe we will never understand, is why or how does such an aggressive stance, by way or terrorism, become something that the globe tolerates? Is it because those practicing jihad are also doing it in the name their prophet, and yet we have leaders in Iran that essentially promote, fund, and encourage it...globally.

Was there peace on Oct 6, 2023? And why was there no peace on Oct 7, 2023? Rather than wanting the Jews gone, does it not make sense that the extremists need to be gone.

IMHO you are never going to get rid of the extremists until you deal with the underlying political issue with regard to Palestinian sovereignty of some kind and associated security guarantees that have to accompany it.

Indiscriminate bombing of civilians under the pretense of going after terrorists only creates more extremists.

... the Israelis could not make bigger mistakes than they already are. 10-20 million Jews in the world and they allow for a government which thinks it makes sense to stay at war forever with the Arab world of multiple billions.

The Israeli government DOES NOT WANT PEACE. You want peace - throw Netanyahu (and his cronies) out of power.

Not surprisingly jhu72 has this bass akwards... it makes sense to stay at war for as long as their existential right to exist is threatened.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:03 am

tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:52 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:48 am Well, this exchange being boiled down into to simplistic, absolutist statements demonstrates why peace is so difficult.

The situation is not remotely simplistic nor ever going to be solved by people who hold absolutist views.

Nice try MDlax "absolutionist" like, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran's leaders, aka... the terrorists

Absolutist

Your word means something quite different.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:28 am

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:11 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:27 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 8:42 am

jhu72 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:33 am Israel's secular elite contemplates a silent departure. This article represents the thinking of well informed members of Israel's secular elite. This has been clear to me for some time as a likely outcome of Bibi's move to the fascist right. This is not the Arabs driving these elites out. There are too many places for freedom loving well educated secular Jews to move too for this not to be the case. These are the same type of people who left Germany and Italy before WW2, that moved to the US.

...it truly takes a smart person to comprehend the thought of war and bombs potentially killing you to move away. It IS the very reason they are in this fight, b/c of terrorist regimes, mostly Iran, fugging up the opportunity of peace.

Any chance we can get an answer, have not seen one yet? viewtopic.php?p=583425#p583425

... these people are moving not because of bombs, they are moving because their government is willing to let the bombings go on, in order to preserve the government. A government which exists, its only reason for being is to fight a war that no one but the government and some religious nuts want and delusionally think they can win. Israel under the current regime is a failed state. The people leaving have come to the conclusion they are not willing to fight for the government. The current Israel and its leaders can only exist in a state of war!!! This is why the secular elites are leaving. There is no place for them or their dreams in this state. The juice isn't worth the squeeze!!


.... and things for them are very likely going to get much much worse, if they stay.


PS - you want an answer to a question that will take a whole thread to answer. There is no short answer -- besides "I want peace in the middle east other than the peace of the dead!"

Thanks for your response. I understand it is complex situation and that we all want peace, except for those inserting terrorism in the name of the Caliphate that only they seek.

What I do not understand and maybe we will never understand, is why or how does such an aggressive stance, by way or terrorism, become something that the globe tolerates? Is it because those practicing jihad are also doing it in the name their prophet, and yet we have leaders in Iran that essentially promote, fund, and encourage it...globally.

Was there peace on Oct 6, 2023? And why was there no peace on Oct 7, 2023? Rather than wanting the Jews gone, does it not make sense that the extremists need to be gone.

IMHO you are never going to get rid of the extremists until you deal with the underlying political issue with regard to Palestinian sovereignty of some kind and associated security guarantees that have to accompany it.

Indiscriminate bombing of civilians under the pretense of going after terrorists only creates more extremists.

... the Israelis could not make bigger mistakes than they already are. 10-20 million Jews in the world and they allow for a government which thinks it makes sense to stay at war forever with the Muslim world of multiple billions.

The Israeli government DOES NOT WANT PEACE. You want peace - throw Netanyahu (and his cronies) out of power. You want peace, put the Orthodox Jews on the front line, in the trenches, in Gaza. You want peace, stop letting real estate developers run the government. You want peace, start talking like you want peace!!! You want peace, then start making it.

Israel is playing a game THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO WIN, but that is ok with some Jews, as long as there is profit in it. The Palestinians are not going to just give up their grievances, very real grievances. But Israel thinks killing tens of thousands of Palestinians is victory, it is a good thing, it will "convince them". At some point Israeli Jews will have that same kind of death toll visited on them and it will be called terrorism by the apologists, when all it is or ever has been is war!!