Orange Duce

[old salt]

Obama was more internationalist than isolationist.
Bush was more interventionist than isolationist.
Trump is more isolatiionist than internationalist or interventionist,
therefore, he is more isolationist than Obama or Bush were.
I think the Jesuits would understand my nuance just fine.
You hammer Trump for not undoing in 2 years, the entanglements it took his predecessors decades to create.

[OCanada]

No doubt Trump is an extreme nationalist working to breakdown the hegemony the west started to create after WW ll and led to the Pax Americana if you can use that term with all those localized wars. Pompeo and Bolton are advocates for perpetual war. Trump seems to order coercion to coalition building.

[dislaxxic]

College Freshman Snuck By Secret Service, Wandered Mar-A-Lago For 20 Minutes

..

[CU88]

r's love o d so much, they don't care that he wished the Japanese military a Happy Memorial Day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSGNIeZLYRg

Must not be any military people on this forum, as I thought that it was supposed to be a somber day of remembrance.
And I guess that they have calmed down since the anger of President Obama insulting the military with the coffee cup salute...

Next year, I expect that for Memorial Day we all should wear "Very Happy memorial Day" t-shirts, made in a 3rd world country???

MAGA!

[OCanada]

Touché, Personally I post annually on Memorial Day to thank Wayne Benes, corpsman for his sacrifice and to locate him on the wall. He saved lives before losing his and I am forever grateful to him

L

[a fan]

Obama was more internationalist than isolationist.
Bush was more interventionist than isolationist.
Trump is more isolatiionist than internationalist or interventionist,
therefore, he is more isolationist than Obama or Bush were.

A wholly incorrect syllogism---and you just yelled at me for making this claim. Let me correct you, using your own words:

Trump has a TENDENCY to be more isolationist than Obama and Bush were. You're welcome.

Do you seriously not understand you just did the very thing you yelled at me for? After giving it to me for being all or nothing in my discussions, you just pulled the word "tendency", and made a very all or nothing statement "Trump is more isolationist than Obama and Bush were".

Anywho. Maybe give a guy a break, and stop using me like I'm a yo-yo.

You hammer Trump for not undoing in 2 years, the entanglements it took his predecessors decades to create.

First of all, the only policy I have questioned is his Iran deal...and asked you how what Trump has now is better than what we had with the deal. You don't have a concrete answer, other than, the previous deal wasn't perfect. My counter: neither is what we have now. So what?

Second of all, you had zero----zero----compunction with hammering Obama for not fixing the stupid, pointless, expensive mess that Bush handed him. You were all over him day after day after day. No hesitation. Why do we need to use the soft gloves for Trump?

[OCanada]

Every president since WWll valued the hegemony that the west created to contain the risk of another world war and prevent the spread of Totalitarianism. Until now. Russia’s/ USSR primary foreign policy goals and objectives since then has been to undermine and weaken the hegemony. Trump’s policies have been very helpful in that regard

[ToastDunk]

So the Dow's about to drop below 25,000, any bets Trump takes a victory lap when it inevitably breaks 25,000 on its way up (again)?

[a fan]

It's the Fed's fault, ToastDunk.

And boy, China's going to lay down and give Trump exactly what he wants (he can't even tell you what that is) any day now, right fellas?


Any day. Wow, what a deal maker this guy is. Whew. Breathtaking work.

[a fan]

Aaaaand more on China. Odd, all the posters who thought Trump was brilliant for starting a Trade War with China are silent. Too hard to say that you were wrong, eh? I'm wrong all the time. It shouldn't be this hard.

We advise the U.S. side not to underestimate the Chinese side’s ability to safeguard its development rights and interests. Don’t say we didn’t warn you!” the People’s Daily said in a commentary titled “United States, don’t underestimate China’s ability to strike back.”



Isn't this SUPER FUN, guys? Nothing like starting a Cold War over.....nothing. Oh well. I told ya. Now the Chinese are telling ya.

Think you'll listen? Nope. All hail little D's and R's, right?

They're threatening to pull rare earth. Next up? Threaten to not buy US debt. They have dozens of arrows to use.




https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/29/dont-sa ... 0bMTh5X90o

[old salt]

Obama was more internationalist than isolationist.
Bush was more interventionist than isolationist.
Trump is more isolatiionist than internationalist or interventionist,
therefore, he is more isolationist than Obama or Bush were.

A wholly incorrect syllogism---and you just yelled at me for making this claim. Let me correct you, using your own words:

Trump has a TENDENCY to be more isolationist than Obama and Bush were. You're welcome.

Do you seriously not understand you just did the very thing you yelled at me for? After giving it to me for being all or nothing in my discussions, you just pulled the word "tendency", and made a very all or nothing statement "Trump is more isolationist than Obama and Bush were".

Anywho. Maybe give a guy a break, and stop using me like I'm a yo-yo.

You hammer Trump for not undoing in 2 years, the entanglements it took his predecessors decades to create.

First of all, the only policy I have questioned is his Iran deal...and asked you how what Trump has now is better than what we had with the deal. You don't have a concrete answer, other than, the previous deal wasn't perfect. My counter: neither is what we have now. So what?

Second of all, you had zero----zero----compunction with hammering Obama for not fixing the stupid, pointless, expensive mess that Bush handed him. You were all over him day after day after day. No hesitation. Why do we need to use the soft gloves for Trump?

You said all 3 were isolationist. I pointed out the degree of isolationist tendencies of each.
Trump is the only one of the three who has shown sufficient isolationist tendencies to be called an "isolationist".

Apply your definition of "isolationist" to Trump. What would he need to do to be considered an isolationist in your opinion?
Give us specifics, regarding international organizations, multilateral agreements & treaties, military deployments & use of force.

[ToastDunk]

It's the Fed's fault, ToastDunk.

And boy, China's going to lay down and give Trump exactly what he wants (he can't even tell you what that is) any day now, right fellas?


Any day. Wow, what a deal maker this guy is. Whew. Breathtaking work.

Tired of winning? I'm f'n exhausted.

[a fan]

Apply your definition of "isolationist" to Trump. What would he need to do to be considered an isolationist in your opinion?
Give us specifics, regarding international organizations, multilateral agreements & treaties, military deployments & use of force.

Military isolationism: at a minimum, Leave Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. To really seal the deal? Close overseas bases, drop out of NATO. That's a real, tangible shift from where we've been since WWII.

Economic isolationism: enact across the board----all imports, not just the favored handful---- protectionist tariffs.


Otherwise, we're back to your "isolationist tendencies" definition, which has no meaning at all. All Presidents since WWII have had "tendencies".

[old salt]

OK. As expected, your "all or nothing" standard. No gradations.
That's why I've said isolationist "tendencies".
I could have alternatively said "actions", "inclinations", "direction"
or "instincts" (as the WP reporter did).

Do you at least agree that Trump, in his actions & rhetoric,
has demonstrated more isolationist "tendencies" than the predecessors you cite ?

[dislaxxic]

..

[a fan]

OK. As expected, your "all or nothing" standard. No gradations.

? I gave you gradations. Old Salt. Sit at a seminar with people from all over the world. Ask them what an militarily isolationist looks like.

I promise you won't find a single person who will look at 2019 America, look at the ongoing wars we're in in four separate countries (I forgot Yemen...a new one) never mind the droning, and arms we're selling all over the place......and call us isolationists. You're being completely silly, and unfair to me.

If you want to say that Trump pulled back from where Obama was? Yeah, ok.

You're using a word that in no way describes the American War Machine under Trump.

[old salt]

If you want to say that Trump pulled back from where Obama was? Yeah, ok.

You're using a word that in no way describes the American War Machine under Trump.

That's why I've said "tendencies" & move the pendulum in the other direction.

Fair to you ? You'd didn't learn to whine like that from the Jesuits.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If you want to say that Trump pulled back from where Obama was? Yeah, ok.

You're using a word that in no way describes the American War Machine under Trump.

That's why I've said "tendencies" & move the pendulum in the other direction.

Fair to you ? You'd didn't learn to whine like that from the Jesuits.

[a fan]

If you want to say that Trump pulled back from where Obama was? Yeah, ok.

You're using a word that in no way describes the American War Machine under Trump.

That's why I've said "tendencies" & move the pendulum in the other direction.

Fair to you ? You'd didn't learn to whine like that from the Jesuits.

Well, don't use the word isolationism----in any form. With any qualifiers.----to describe a country that's in at least four freaking active warzones halfway around the globe. Come on. You're better than this.

[CU88]

US Military is the Swamp, DEPLORABLE!


NEW: The White House wanted the USS John McCain “out of sight” for Trump’s visit to Japan. A tarp was hung over the ship’s name ahead of the trip, and sailors—who wear caps bearing the ship’s name—were given the day off for Trump’s visit.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-hous ... sage_share …