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Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:22 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:00 pm
So then we'd see a 4 year long Congressional investigation if, say, our own Navy was so messed up and overtasked from the sequesters and Congressional neglect....neglecting repeated warnings of the multitude of problems...... they couldn't make it to port without colliding into other ships?
Collisions that killed, oh, let's say, 17 Americans......far more then the number that died in Benghazi? 17 sailors that were working on the behest of their government that turned their backs on repeated requests for help to fix the problems?
Is that Congressional investigation still going, and I missed the memo?
Good grief. It didn't take that long because there was no BS'ing or stonewalling.
The causes & needed corrections were obvious & swift.
As was the accountability. Every officer up through the Fleet Commander was fired.
You could not have picked a less apt analogy. ...unless it's Niger.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:42 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:22 pm
Good grief. It didn't take that long because there was no BS'ing or stonewalling.
The causes & needed corrections were obvious & swift.
As was the accountability. Every officer up through the Fleet Commander was fired.
You could not have picked a less apt analogy.
Well call me stunned. You're thrilled with that investigation, too. No one lied. No one stonewalled. Because "you say so", so nothing to see here, let's move on. How do we know no one lied? We don't. And what Congressman took responsibility for shorting the Navy budget? Or for demanding new ships at the expense of keeping old ones in working order?
It's a coincidence that it happened while Trump was President. If this had happened under Obama's last days, we'd STILL be investigating the collisions.
And you'd be demanding more answers.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:07 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:42 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:22 pm
Good grief. It didn't take that long because there was no BS'ing or stonewalling.
The causes & needed corrections were obvious & swift.
As was the accountability. Every officer up through the Fleet Commander was fired.
You could not have picked a less apt analogy.
Well call me stunned. You're thrilled with that investigation, too. No one lied. No one stonewalled. Because "you say so", so nothing to see here, let's move on. How do we know no one lied? We don't. And what Congressman took responsibility for shorting the Navy budget? Or for demanding new ships at the expense of keeping old ones in working order?
It's a coincidence that it happened while Trump was President. If this had happened under Obama's last days, we'd STILL be investigating the collisions.
And you'd be demanding more answers.
The Fleet Commander sets the op tempo & determines the training standard. Commanding Officers are responsible to let the chain of command know when they can't comply & why. Can't blame Congress for that. When Flag Officers stand up & say we can do this much, & no more, Congress pays attention. Since those accidents, tasking & op tempo have been reduced (& I pointed it out to you when it was happening). We went 7 mos without a Carrier Strike Group in the middle east -- unheard of before Trump.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
by a fan
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:43 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Because they are entirely different situations & not a reasonable analogy.
Benghazi was nothing like all our other diplomatic facilities in the ME. It was so inadequately fortified & defended that they stopped calling it a consulate after the attack. In similar situations, we withdraw our diplomats, like everybody else did in Benghazi. Instead, we sent our Amb into an unsafe situation to set up a PR visit for Clinton. Then -- we did nothing to rescue our people before we knew how long they'd be pinned down. It was only the extraordinary heroics of the CIA contractors that allowed anyone to escape. Then Obama, Clinton & their hacks lied to the public & the survivors' families about what happened for 2 weeks.
In Niger & the ship collisions, there were prompt disclosures, investigations & accountability.
They were the results of decisions made at the Theater Commander level & below.
Benghazi was the result of a Cabinet level decision to be & stay there + Obama's light footprint policy.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:50 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Because they are entirely different situations & not a reasonable analogy.
You didn't answer my question, because you know the answer.
They knew what happened in Benghazi in a matter of weeks. The military made their changes after that, making sure the rest of the ME theater was good to go.
The remaining 3 1/2 years of Republican led political nonsense was about publicly going after the Dem nominee for President, as well as Obama.
You're acting like these two separate investigations---one political, and the other to ensure future military readiness--- are the same thing.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:09 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:50 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Because they are entirely different situations & not a reasonable analogy.
You didn't answer my question, because you know the answer.
They knew what happened in Benghazi in a matter of weeks. The military made their changes after that, making sure the rest of the ME theater was good to go.
The remaining 3 1/2 years of Republican led political nonsense was about publicly going after the Dem nominee for President, as well as Obama.
You're acting like these two separate investigations---one political, and the other to ensure future military readiness--- are the same thing.
The problems were not just in the military. That was a small part of it. There were military assets in theatre, ready to respond. The problem was the failure to decide to use them in DC.
It's not that complicated. It was bad judgement & decision making, at the cabinet levei & above, before, during, & after the attack. Not that hard to fix. Use your intel & follow the advice of your people in country. Get the F out, before it's too late, rather than staying for a stupid, self-serving political reason. Don't let it get to the point where you have to send in the Marines. Duh !
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:17 pm
by a fan
Right. And I agree. You're on board with my point finally. Have a great weekend, and good luck at Holy Cross Saturday.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:23 pm
by jhu72
6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:50 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
Speaking of Hillary - could we please start another investigation of her?
LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP.
Happy to see you appear to be getting better and your sense of humor is returning.
Never lose my sense of humor. But in this case I am serious. I really believe the DOJ should investigate her again.
No need to investigate her again. Just prosecute the crimes we already know about.
She has not been indicted or accused of any crime by the DOJ. Comey said so, just like Barr is saying so.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:53 pm
by youthathletics
jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:23 pm
6ftstick wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:50 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:20 pm
jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:14 pm
Speaking of Hillary - could we please start another investigation of her?
LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP.
Happy to see you appear to be getting better and your sense of humor is returning.
Never lose my sense of humor. But in this case I am serious. I really believe the DOJ should investigate her again.
No need to investigate her again. Just prosecute the crimes we already know about.
She has not been indicted or accused of any crime by the DOJ. Comey said so, just like Barr is saying so.
Awesome....we're all square'd up. Moving' on.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:02 pm
by ggait
More evidence that Barr is playing this pretty straight.
If you actually looked at the DOJ regs for SCs, you'd see that Barr and Mueller so far have been checking the boxes that the regs require them to check.
More evidence that old buds Mueller and Barr agreed on a plan on how to land this plane, and are just carrying the plan out.
Told you so.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:56 pm
by MDlaxfan76
tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:27 pm
tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:00 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:43 pmFirst of all, what are you talking about? One, two, three criminal indictments for Trump's inner circle. Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn.
Trump never even met those mooks.
context mdlax, context...you're out of the loop
I confess that I have no idea what
context you might mean.
I could well be
out of the loop, but seems to me that there was some sort of contention that no one from Trump's
inner circle was touched by the Mueller investigation.
Depends on what one considers '
inner circle', thus my "
Trump never even met those mooks."
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:01 pm
by runrussellrun
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:17 pm
Right. And I agree. You're on board with my point finally. Have a great weekend, and good luck at Holy Cross Saturday.
six years and counting......Fat Leonard rules
https://news.usni.org/2019/01/24/paying ... estigation
Notice this investigation is void of the childish R's vs D's infotainment junk. No politicians named, no blaming Obama or tRump. Even the comment section is mature. Guess Russian bots don't make it onto these kinds of websites
People can act like grownups.............
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:21 pm
by cradleandshoot
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Some times a Fan, on very rare occasions, your logic just plumb evades me. Lets just stick to Benghazi for a few moments
1) Our people stationed in Benghazi for months are pleading with Washington DC for added security to address the deteriorating situation. Washington DC turns a blind eye and a deaf ear. They were unwilling to accept the disconcerting optics of our people there serving under a heavy blanket of security... so they effing hung them out to dry.
2) so the chit hits the fan like everybody knew it would. Our people are under heavy siege and our government sits in DC with their thumbs up their ass and does nothing while our people are dying. This is the part that pisses me off the most. Those mother effing jackwagons in DC did not lift a finger to save our people They had the technology and watched the entire freaking chitshow play out in front of their eyes. As a former military guy this is where the line was crossed. Chances are our folks would not have made it in time. Given the huge security risks why a reaction force was not on standby still baffles the hell out of me. Every mother freaking asset available at that time should have been put into action. There should have been zero delay. These were our people, our people train 24/7/365 for situations such as this and they were not even given the chance they begged for. So after the dust had settled and our people arrived a day late and a dollar short... the folks in DC have to spin this...
3) So when the remains of our citizens are returned home our SoS becomes the lead dog in the dog and pony show to lie to these families that had just lost their loved ones. This was one of those rare opportunities for our leaders to say they made a tragic mistake and miscalculated the situation in Benghazi. Hell they could have said they were not sure what happened and they would get to the bottom of it. The dog and pony show was the order of the day. It was too close to the 2012 election to let THAT sort of a chitshow out of the bag. Lets blame it on some scoundrel in LA that made a film that nobody even knew about as the genesis for the outcry of anger among the Muslim people. Yeah sure... it makes perfect sense if you don't think about it for very long.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/ ... department This is one time where the Republicans were on point when they grilled this incompetent moron Charlene Lamb. You talk about having a deer in the headlight look on her face the entire time she testified.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:31 pm
by MDlaxfan76
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:21 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:28 pm
You can't have it both ways.
How long do you think it took our military to analyze what happened in Benghazi, and made changes to correct the problems they found? Or are you going to argue that all consulates and/or positions in the ME were left vulnerable for four whole years, while they figured out what happened?
Some times a Fan, on very rare occasions, your logic just plumb evades me. Lets just stick to Benghazi for a few moments
1) Our people stationed in Benghazi for months are pleading with Washington DC for added security to address the deteriorating situation. Washington DC turns a blind eye and a deaf ear. They were unwilling to accept the disconcerting optics of our people there serving under a heavy blanket of security... so they effing hung them out to dry.
2) so the chit hits the fan like everybody knew it would. Our people are under heavy siege and our government sits in DC with their thumbs up their ass and does nothing while our people are dying. This is the part that pisses me off the most. Those mother effing jackwagons in DC did not lift a finger to save our people They had the technology and watched the entire freaking chitshow play out in front of their eyes. As a former military guy this is where the line was crossed. Chances are our folks would not have made it in time. Given the huge security risks why a reaction force was not on standby still baffles the hell out of me. Every mother freaking asset available at that time should have been put into action. There should have been zero delay. These were our people, our people train 24/7/365 for situations such as this and they were not even given the chance they begged for. So after the dust had settled and our people arrived a day late and a dollar short... the folks in DC have to spin this...
3) So when the remains of our citizens are returned home our SoS becomes the lead dog in the dog and pony show to lie to these families that had just lost their loved ones. This was one of those rare opportunities for our leaders to say they made a tragic mistake and miscalculated the situation in Benghazi. Hell they could have said they were not sure what happened and they would get to the bottom of it. The dog and pony show was the order of the day. It was too close to the 2012 election to let THAT sort of a chitshow out of the bag. Lets blame it on some scoundrel in LA that made a film that nobody even knew about as the genesis for the outcry of anger among the Muslim people. Yeah sure... it makes perfect sense if you don't think about it for very long.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/ ... department This is one time where the Republicans were on point when they grilled this incompetent moron Cheryl Mills. You talk about having a deer in the headlight look on her face the entire time she testified.
All fine arguments and good reason to be angry IMO.
But how many years did the GOP 'investigate', how many 'hearings' ?
I think the point being made has simply been that the process was stretched out for partisan reasons and that it had a very real effect on the body politic's perceptions and ultimately its votes.
Which in no way is to give HRC a pass. Not only were errors made, the cover-up was a big part of why it dragged on.
Expect that treatment of Trump. Not only were errors made, the cover-up will be a big part of why it drags on.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:35 pm
by a fan
As was the case with old salt's post, I'm in total agreement with you, cradle.
My point is, it took all of a month, two, tops, to figure out how badly the State Dept. screwed up...and to make sure this didn't happen again, from a military perspective.
The four years of investigating was about hammering Hillary. Period. If anyone else was SoS--- the Benghazi investigation would have lasted about as long as the investigations into the Navy collisions I mentioned before.
That's it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying Hill wasn't wrong, and for the life of me, I still don't get the whole "it was a video" thing, because that made them look MORE incompetent, not LESS incompetent.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:43 pm
by runrussellrun
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:35 pm
As was the case with old salt's post, I'm in total agreement with you, cradle.
My point is, it took all of a month, two, tops, to figure out how badly the State Dept. screwed up...and to make sure this didn't happen again, from a military perspective.
The four years of investigating was about hammering Hillary. Period. If anyone else was SoS--- the Benghazi investigation would have lasted about as long as the investigations into the Navy collisions I mentioned before.
That's it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying Hill wasn't wrong, and for the life of me, I still don't get the whole "it was a video" thing, because that made them look MORE incompetent, not LESS incompetent.
Well, someone had to "hammer" Hillary. Bill was too tired "hammering" interns and who knows what else on Epstein Island.
And , regarding the video.....do you recall the media hammering Obama and his minions for the idiotic blame on the video? Fox sniffed around the video glue for a while, but no one else. Heck, do an internet search, today, and you get very little. Does google get government contracts, white collare welfare? exactly
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:53 pm
by a fan
The video thing still baffles me.
Which is worse:
-The State Department's defense of the Ambassador was so bad, that a spontaneous attack with a few dozen terrorists killed him.
Or, - The State Department's defense of the Ambassador was overwhelmed by a coordinated, pre-planned attack that included mortar fire.
The former sounds so much worse than the latter. It makes it sound like the Ambassador had essentially zero protection...... rather than they were simply met with an coordinated, overwhelming attack.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:25 pm
by Chips O'Toole
ggait wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:02 pm
More evidence that Barr is playing this pretty straight.
If you actually looked at the DOJ regs for SCs, you'd see that Barr and Mueller so far have been checking the boxes that the regs require them to check.
More evidence that old buds Mueller and Barr agreed on a plan on how to land this plane, and are just carrying the plan out.
Told you so.
I am highly skeptical. Barr's summary appears to be a very bad start out of the gate, making a very controversial decision that wasn't his to make. His letter today didn't inspire much confidence, either, in asserting his letter he called a summary was not a summary. Not sure what to make of that.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:52 pm
by youthathletics
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:35 pm
As was the case with old salt's post, I'm in total agreement with you, cradle.
My point is, it took all of a month, two, tops, to figure out how badly the State Dept. screwed up...and to make sure this didn't happen again, from a military perspective.
The four years of investigating was about hammering Hillary. Period. If anyone else was SoS--- the Benghazi investigation would have lasted about as long as the investigations into the Navy collisions I mentioned before.
That's it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying Hill wasn't wrong, and for the life of me, I still don't get the whole "it was a video" thing, because that made them look MORE incompetent, not LESS incompetent.
Well, someone had to "hammer" Hillary. Bill was too tired "hammering" interns and who knows what else on Epstein Island.
And , regarding the video.....do you recall the media hammering Obama and his minions for the idiotic blame on the video? Fox sniffed around the video glue for a while, but no one else. Heck, do an internet search, today, and you get very little. Does google get government contracts, white collare welfare? exactly
Google and NSA are one in the same. Where else do you get so much for free?