Johns Hopkins 2020

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

COVID update, how to know of any JHU Athletics changes:

“Athletic events are on as scheduled as of now with no limit on fan attendance (as of now). Any updates to that will be posted to our athletic website (HopkinsSports.com) and distributed via our normal channels (social media, etc.).”

We haven’t had a FAN ATTENDANCE LIMIT problem all season and as a matter of fact it, seems we haven’t had that problem for most of the last decade

The good news is, if they ask fans to spread out and not be within 5 yards of each other, it’s doable.

[viper]

Hop got a little help from the gods, but for the immaculate deflection goal this game doesn't go into OT.

Or the hockey assist to Cole from the Mount goalie.

That errant pass to Cole was the crescendo of the 4th qtr breakown by Mount. I get what Mount was trying to do....they knew JHU would score goals, they were just trying to limit JHU chances my milking clock. By intentionally throwing the ball away, multiple times, on shot clock expiration ....IMO is a cardinal sin...especially in a sport where valuing the ball matters. At a minimum, if you just shoot it into crease your odds of regaining possession are greater than throwing it away.

Fun game to watch.

Or take it to the goal and try to draw a flag.

[viper]

I was curious to see how you JHU boys felt this morning. The Mount had you dead to rights.

The MSM goalie had a touch of the whip in his mesh, trying to get a very simple pass over Williams' head. Brutal. That pass connects, game over, and this board erupts like never before.

Angels dancing on the head of a pin right about now regards your coaching issue. Certainly doesn't feel much like a 'win'.

+1

[oldjayfan]

Thought QK was off base in criticizing the Mount's strategy. They were smart to work the shot clock and not take a foolish shot that could/would lead to a save and quick outlet/break. If the Mount midfielder wouldn't have essentially run out of bounds after the ball was cleared(far sideline) and the goalie giveaway, our boys are sitting at 1-5 heading into Navy game.
Navy/Hop will be a dogfight as both teams tend to have anemic offenses. And, goalkeep advantage is decidedly in Navy's favor..

[HopFan16]

Thought QK was off base in criticizing the Mount's strategy. They were smart to work the shot clock and not take a foolish shot that could/would lead to a save and quick outlet/break.

Disagree. How many non-faceoff fastbreak goals do the Jays have this year? Two? The chances were much better that any of the Mount's shots would have either A) gone in, B) went out of bounds but got backed up or C) saved, but recovered by the offense to get another 80 seconds. The clean save to quick outlet scenario was far down the list of possibilities, IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I think it's hard to call anything the Mount did in the fourth quarter last night "smart" given how things turned out. They did pretty much exactly what Hopkins needed them to do to have any chance at all. I mean, they were up 4 with 5 minutes to go. If their endgame strategy was smart then I'd love to know what a not-smart strategy in that situation would be.

I am hoping that the short turnaround to Navy helps the Jays, but who knows. Less time to prepare. Less time worrying about film. The entire rest of the week should be spent on clearing and shooting.

[wgdsr]

i continue to be amazed at what game people were watching in the 4th quarter re: the mount.

if they were taking shots 15 sec into the shot clock and lost, i guess the hindsight guys would be saying what an idiotic strategy that was and allowed the comeback.
they took some time off the front half of the shot clock. they attacked the cage in a measured way, and that ended up getting them great looks. it's not a high powered offense.
they took an average of 7 shots per quarter over the last 3, and in the 4th took... 7.
hopkins took 8.
all while losing almost all the faceoffs.
they had at least 4 shots that very easily could've been goals, and 2 or 3 that "should've" been goals in the 4th, including in the waning seconds.

[nrthcrosslax]

This just in.
Mabbett will be required to attend games remotely

[HopFan16]

i continue to be amazed at what game people were watching in the 4th quarter re: the mount.

if they were taking shots 15 sec into the shot clock and lost, i guess the hindsight guys would be saying what an idiotic strategy that was and allowed the comeback.
they took some time off the front half of the shot clock. they attacked the cage in a measured way, and that ended up getting them great looks. it's not a high powered offense.
they took an average of 7 shots per quarter over the last 3, and in the 4th took... 7.
hopkins took 8.
all while losing almost all the faceoffs.
they had at least 4 shots that very easily could've been goals, and 2 or 3 that "should've" been goals in the 4th, including in the waning seconds.

There were at least a few times when they realized they only had 10-15 seconds left on the shot clock and then just held the ball and tossed it into the corner for the intentional violation rather than try for one more look on cage. If they were getting such great looks then you'd think they'd use those last few seconds to try to get another look before the shot clock ran out. Seems like if the offense was working so well and they had several shots that "very easily" could have been goals, then they should have given themselves a few more of those opportunities rather than concede the end of possessions just to save a couple seconds worth of time. Basically just giving Hopkins a few extra possessions at that point instead of at least trying to score or give yourself another 80+ seconds to kill clock. Again, IMO, taking a shot in the waning seconds of the clock is more likely to result in either a goal or a shot-clock reset for the Mount than it is a clean save, quick outlet, and transition opportunity for Hopkins. That's not the case with every team, but against the Jays, I think it is. The goalie and defense are struggling, outlet passes are slow as molasses, and the clearing is a nightmare. You don't need the intentional turnover in order to set up a ride against this team. Against a better defense/goaltender/clearing team I think it'd be the right strategy. But last night, against this Hopkins team, it was not.

[steel_hop]

i continue to be amazed at what game people were watching in the 4th quarter re: the mount.

if they were taking shots 15 sec into the shot clock and lost, i guess the hindsight guys would be saying what an idiotic strategy that was and allowed the comeback.
they took some time off the front half of the shot clock. they attacked the cage in a measured way, and that ended up getting them great looks. it's not a high powered offense.
they took an average of 7 shots per quarter over the last 3, and in the 4th took... 7.
hopkins took 8.
all while losing almost all the faceoffs.
they had at least 4 shots that very easily could've been goals, and 2 or 3 that "should've" been goals in the 4th, including in the waning seconds.

There were at least a few times when they realized they only had 10-15 seconds left on the shot clock and then just held the ball and tossed it into the corner for the intentional violation rather than try for one more look on cage. If they were getting such great looks then you'd think they'd use those last few seconds to try to get another look before the shot clock ran out. Seems like if the offense was working so well and they had several shots that "very easily" could have been goals, then they should have given themselves a few more of those opportunities rather than concede the end of possessions just to save a couple seconds worth of time. Basically just giving Hopkins a few extra possessions at that point instead of at least trying to score or give yourself another 80+ seconds to kill clock. Again, IMO, taking a shot in the waning seconds of the clock is more likely to result in either a goal or a shot-clock reset for the Mount than it is a clean save, quick outlet, and transition opportunity for Hopkins. That's not the case with every team, but against the Jays, I think it is. The goalie and defense are struggling, outlet passes are slow as molasses, and the clearing is a nightmare. You don't need the intentional turnover in order to set up a ride against this team. Against a better defense/goaltender/clearing team I think it'd be the right strategy. But last night, against this Hopkins team, it was not.

MSM played it fine. Sometimes players make good plays to change the game. Here is an exact case for it. The reason MSM lost was when the Hopkins Dman pushed the MSM middie clearing the ball out of bounds when the MSM player was on the Hopkins side of the ball after the pass from the goalie. He did that with about 1:50 left in the fourth quarter.

If the MSM player stays in bounds, MSM works the clock down to about 40 seconds left. Even if Hopkins gets the ball back on a missed shot back-up or MSM uses up the entire 80 seconds, there is about 40 seconds when Hopkins gets the ball back. Figure 15 seconds to get it into the box for a timeout and Hopkins has about 25 seconds to score.

There was an old say by a football coach that said, we can make all the game plans and workout all the details but at the end of the day being an athlete (and even doing the wrong thing) can throw all those plans in the garbage.

[Big Dog]

They almost lost to a sub 500 nec program at home today. What makes you proud of that non murphy/prouty effort?

Please point me to where I even remotely insinuated I was proud of anything. Just because I'm not on here anonymously calling kids "garbage" by name like you doesn't mean I am proud or happy or satisfied. I'm pretty sure my posts during the game saying I was miserable, that the defense was a nightmare, and that we were extremely fortunate to win communicated that point already.

If the season is cut short and players are granted another year of eligibility, what happens to all the Ivy League seniors who want to keep playing? Assuming the league does not bend their rules given the circumstances, all those kids would have to look elsewhere for their 5th years. Would be transfer chaos.

I don't think season cancelling is gonna happen. But if it does, Grad Transfers are another possibility. And that works great bcos some grad programs are funded. Assuming that most 5th year Grad transfers would be seeking a Terminal MA/MS, the top publics would have an advantage there as they offer more terminal masters than privates. OTOH, the Ivies do offer some terminal master's programs, so a 5th year could conceivably stay with their current school.

[Big Dog]

Thought QK was off base in criticizing the Mount's strategy. They were smart to work the shot clock and not take a foolish shot that could/would lead to a save and quick outlet/break.

Disagree. How many non-faceoff fastbreak goals do the Jays have this year? Two? The chances were much better that any of the Mount's shots would have either A) gone in, B) went out of bounds but got backed up or C) saved, but recovered by the offense to get another 80 seconds. The clean save to quick outlet scenario was far down the list of possibilities, IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I think it's hard to call anything the Mount did in the fourth quarter last night "smart" given how things turned out. They did pretty much exactly what Hopkins needed them to do to have any chance at all. I mean, they were up 4 with 5 minutes to go. If their endgame strategy was smart then I'd love to know what a not-smart strategy in that situation would be.

I am hoping that the short turnaround to Navy helps the Jays, but who knows. Less time to prepare. Less time worrying about film. The entire rest of the week should be spent on clearing and shooting.

Agreed. Moreover, why not drive into the middle of the Hopkins D as the shot clock winds down (like a basketball PG who drives into a big and chucks up a shot as the clock expires). Given Hopkins' penchant for head-hunting on D, the attack man might earn a 1 minute penalty, and then game over. At worst its GB scrum until the shot clock expires.

[primitiveskills]

Thought QK was off base in criticizing the Mount's strategy. They were smart to work the shot clock and not take a foolish shot that could/would lead to a save and quick outlet/break.

Disagree. How many non-faceoff fastbreak goals do the Jays have this year? Two? The chances were much better that any of the Mount's shots would have either A) gone in, B) went out of bounds but got backed up or C) saved, but recovered by the offense to get another 80 seconds. The clean save to quick outlet scenario was far down the list of possibilities, IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course but I think it's hard to call anything the Mount did in the fourth quarter last night "smart" given how things turned out. They did pretty much exactly what Hopkins needed them to do to have any chance at all. I mean, they were up 4 with 5 minutes to go. If their endgame strategy was smart then I'd love to know what a not-smart strategy in that situation would be.

I am hoping that the short turnaround to Navy helps the Jays, but who knows. Less time to prepare. Less time worrying about film. The entire rest of the week should be spent on clearing and shooting.

Agreed. Moreover, why not drive into the middle of the Hopkins D as the shot clock winds down (like a basketball PG who drives into a big and chucks up a shot as the clock expires). Given Hopkins' penchant for head-hunting on D, the attack man might earn a 1 minute penalty, and then game over. At worst its GB scrum until the shot clock expires.

Fair enough. Though with the way Hopkins was struggling to clear, you could argue that chucking it into the corner and setting up your ride wasn't a bad strategy either.

[wgdsr]

i continue to be amazed at what game people were watching in the 4th quarter re: the mount.

if they were taking shots 15 sec into the shot clock and lost, i guess the hindsight guys would be saying what an idiotic strategy that was and allowed the comeback.
they took some time off the front half of the shot clock. they attacked the cage in a measured way, and that ended up getting them great looks. it's not a high powered offense.
they took an average of 7 shots per quarter over the last 3, and in the 4th took... 7.
hopkins took 8.
all while losing almost all the faceoffs.
they had at least 4 shots that very easily could've been goals, and 2 or 3 that "should've" been goals in the 4th, including in the waning seconds.

There were at least a few times when they realized they only had 10-15 seconds left on the shot clock and then just held the ball and tossed it into the corner for the intentional violation rather than try for one more look on cage. If they were getting such great looks then you'd think they'd use those last few seconds to try to get another look before the shot clock ran out. Seems like if the offense was working so well and they had several shots that "very easily" could have been goals, then they should have given themselves a few more of those opportunities rather than concede the end of possessions just to save a couple seconds worth of time. Basically just giving Hopkins a few extra possessions at that point instead of at least trying to score or give yourself another 80+ seconds to kill clock. Again, IMO, taking a shot in the waning seconds of the clock is more likely to result in either a goal or a shot-clock reset for the Mount than it is a clean save, quick outlet, and transition opportunity for Hopkins. That's not the case with every team, but against the Jays, I think it is. The goalie and defense are struggling, outlet passes are slow as molasses, and the clearing is a nightmare. You don't need the intentional turnover in order to set up a ride against this team. Against a better defense/goaltender/clearing team I think it'd be the right strategy. But last night, against this Hopkins team, it was not.

first of all, though we've had our disagreements i consider you to have some insight and perspective on a number of things... although:
to the bolded above, no there weren't.
there was one early on in the period where hopkins mixed it up after a mount goal and went zone. msm was discombobulated for a bit, then didn't run anything near effective enough to get a good look, one guy saw at about 4 seconds they didn't have anything, passed it adjacent and with one second left --- they threw it into the corner.
the second came after a good look, missed the far pipe by about 2 inches and the ball went to the deep corner. 7 seconds left on the shot clock. the attackmen by instruction or his own decision ran out and chucked it back. they got set up in a 3-3 squeeze the midline ride as a result.. there were under 2 min left and they were up only one goal. they weren't in a rush, but the possession was not about killing 80 seconds. if their entire game plan is considered an abject failure because of those 7 seconds, from the deep corner, on maybe a decision from an attackman... well, then as a poster said before... this was one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of college lacrosse.
c'mon man.

some teams, and lots of them in the pros -- sometimes go to this strategy for a reason. last few seconds, better to get personnel and/or ride going. it doesn't make it wrong. not my preferred philosophy, but it's got some merits. if they were simply trying to kill 80 seconds every time and hoped the game clock would run out, that's one thing. that was not the case here.

jhu had cleared the ball just fine, particularly after the 1st. your last point about hopkins being bad at clearing is counterintuitive... regardless, msm traded what amounted to a several second opportunity to try something for a full ride and sub opportunity. scratching my head for that being the takeaway that made it all happen for the blue jays by onlookers.

[oldjayfan]

Exactly wgdsr...Mount turnover, after successfully clearing the ball with 1:50 to go and the goalie giveaway were the reasons for the loss...had those two blunders--not mistakes, blunders--not occurred, Gravante is given credit for excellent game managment. As it is, his plan worked, two plays upended the plan. 12 goals should've been enough..

[HopFan16]

With the Ivy League cancelled there is a very, very real possibility that other schools follow and the entire lacrosse season is cut short. If that does occur...what happens to Petro? Obviously there are far greater concerns than one guy's job security but it would create a very strange situation. Do they give him another full year? Or do they look at this bad start and just cut their losses?

[Mr. F]

They almost lost to a sub 500 nec program at home today. What makes you proud of that non murphy/prouty effort?

Please point me to where I even remotely insinuated I was proud of anything. Just because I'm not on here anonymously calling kids "garbage" by name like you doesn't mean I am proud or happy or satisfied. I'm pretty sure my posts during the game saying I was miserable, that the defense was a nightmare, and that we were extremely fortunate to win communicated that point already.

If the season is cut short and players are granted another year of eligibility, what happens to all the Ivy League seniors who want to keep playing? Assuming the league does not bend their rules given the circumstances, all those kids would have to look elsewhere for their 5th years. Would be transfer chaos.

I don't think season cancelling is gonna happen. But if it does, Grad Transfers are another possibility. And that works great bcos some grad programs are funded. Assuming that most 5th year Grad transfers would be seeking a Terminal MA/MS, the top publics would have an advantage there as they offer more terminal masters than privates. OTOH, the Ivies do offer some terminal master's programs, so a 5th year could conceivably stay with their current school.

Well the Ivy League was just canceled. So it could happen
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... d-19/56147

[10 10 2]

With the Ivy League cancelled there is a very, very real possibility that other schools follow and the entire lacrosse season is cut short. If that does occur...what happens to Petro? Obviously there are far greater concerns than one guy's job security but it would create a very strange situation.

Do they give him another full year? Or do they look at this bad start and just cut their losses?

I would assume the latter. Does anybody think he really would have turned things around, if only those games could have been played?

[viper]

I would assume the latter. Does anybody think he really would have turned things around, if only those games could have been played?

What say you .....Doc?

[steel_hop]

With the Ivy League cancelled there is a very, very real possibility that other schools follow and the entire lacrosse season is cut short. If that does occur...what happens to Petro? Obviously there are far greater concerns than one guy's job security but it would create a very strange situation. Do they give him another full year? Or do they look at this bad start and just cut their losses?

It will save his job for at least another year. There is no question. Can you imagine what the headlines will say if they are out looking for a new coach when covid is running around much less firing him. We eat another year of mediocre lacrosse and he'll be canned next June. (Obvious there were be other concerns).

[Big Dog]

since teh Ivies just forfeited their season, does Teh Hop move up a few spots in the non-rankings?