Page 184 of 187
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
by a fan
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel, what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
by PizzaSnake
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:46 pm
by Kismet
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
Because their enemies are also our enemies. They are the most stable and aligned country in the region.
We are not ever go to walk away from Israel although suspect there will eventually be some distance with Bibi's administration.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
by a fan
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:49 pm
by PizzaSnake
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
I do not ascribe to Kissingerian realpolitik.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:05 pm
by a fan
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:49 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
I do not ascribe to Kissingerian realpolitik.
I have no idea what that means in this context.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:47 pm
by PizzaSnake
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:05 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:49 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
I do not ascribe to Kissingerian realpolitik.
I have no idea what that means in this context.
Your response indicates to me you are following a fatalistic, pragmatic course rather than one primarily guided by moral or ideological constraints. Realpolitik was what Henry Kissinger was known to practice.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:56 pm
by a fan
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:47 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:05 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:49 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
I do not ascribe to Kissingerian realpolitik.
I have no idea what that means in this context.
Your response indicates to me you are following a fatalistic, pragmatic course rather than one primarily guided by moral or ideological constraints. Realpolitik was what Henry Kissinger was known to practice.
You have it backwards. Morally speaking, I have zero interest in making feel Israel feel that they have no friends in the world, and have to fend for themselves. Because I know that they would make this current war look like a walk in the park.
How do you not see that? You're advising that we back Israel into a corner, with no friend. As I said: how do you not understand how they'd react? They'd make the post-October operations look like a day at the beach.
I want this mess fixed....you're advocating that Israel listen to no one in the global community.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:46 pm
by PizzaSnake
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:56 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:47 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 3:05 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 2:49 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:48 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:43 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 12:32 pm
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 10:20 am
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
So many reasons. Guilt from the turning sway of Jewish immigrants. The number of jewish voters and relsted political donations. Israel once was more or less a democracy and we supported them as one. Thst has changed since Bibi came to power. The lexicon of political discussions has changed there. Once upon a time violence was centered on the settlers. It has since been institutionalized.
A few thoughts
My answer to this is the same: if the US turns its back on Israel,
what do you think Israel will do?
Do you think they'll give up? Or do you think they'll act with zero concern for what anyone thinks?
I know my answer.
Don't care. I want no part of this behavior. Complicity is a bad look.
We stagger from one kind of complicit guilt to another like a drunk without any moral compass.
We're complicit with both. We've been giving money to both sides. Do you want to cut off aid to Hamas?
I do not ascribe to Kissingerian realpolitik.
I have no idea what that means in this context.
Your response indicates to me you are following a fatalistic, pragmatic course rather than one primarily guided by moral or ideological constraints. Realpolitik was what Henry Kissinger was known to practice.
You have it backwards. Morally speaking, I have zero interest in making feel Israel feel that they have no friends in the world, and have to fend for themselves. Because I know that they would make this current war look like a walk in the park.
How do you not see that? You're advising that we back Israel into a corner, with no friend. As I said: how do you not understand how they'd react? They'd make the post-October operations look like a day at the beach.
I want this mess fixed....you're advocating that
Israel listen to no one in the global community.
Already the case.
I want no part of their actions. You are an exemplar of realpolitik, I am not.
Because we don't agree doesn't make either of correct/incorrect -- just different.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:54 pm
by a fan
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 4:46 pm
Already the case.
I want no part of their actions. You are an exemplar of realpolitik, I am not.
Because we don't agree doesn't make either of correct/incorrect -- just different.
Nice to hear the bolded part on the forum....tip of the hat
To clarify: I want no part of ARMING anyone we don't have a treaty with (which includes Israel)....on that point, we agree.
Turning our backs on Israel entirely is something I'm not behind. I think it would make matters far worse.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:10 pm
by jhu72
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 1:46 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:39 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 9:33 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:04 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:08 pm
An Israeli official has floated the possibility of offering Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar safe passage out of Gaza, once all remaining hostages held in the Palestinian territory are released. Israel’s Coordinator for Hostages and the Missing Gal Hirsch made the statement to CNN this past Sunday.
“I’m ready to provide safe passage to Sinwar, his family, whoever wants to join him,” he told Bloomberg. “We want the hostages back. We want demilitarization, de-radicalization of course — a new system that will manage Gaza.”
He told Bloomberg that the offer of safe passage was put on the table a day and a half ago, but did not say what the response was. Israel would be open to releasing prisoners it holds as part of any deal, he told Bloomberg.
That would be a good start. A rebuilt and demilitarized Gaza would be a win the the Palestinian people and Israel.
Except that it will likely never happen as Bibi and his RW allies will never go for it.
The US has no dog in this fight. The support for Israel, particularly in the last few years as Bibi cut his swathe, is costing it goodwill worldwide. What national interests are served or advanced? That area of the world is a cesspool of historical grievances unlikely to resolve soon, if ever. Get out and stay out.
Once again, can someone explain why we support Israel in the face of this and past behavior?
Because their enemies are also our enemies. They are the most stable and aligned country in the region.
We are not ever go to walk away from Israel although suspect there will eventually be some distance with Bibi's administration.
... I wouldn't bet on the US not walking away from Israel at some point in the future. The young really are opposed to continuing to support Israel under the current conditions. The longer Bibi and his fascists stay in power, the greater the probability. Then you have the real antisemites on the right that are ready to cut it free now, along with the Arabs on both the left and the right. Israel is doing great harm to itself by indiscriminate killing of Palestinians.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:59 pm
by jhu72
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 6:18 pm
by jhu72
Netanyahu is a mad man! -- according to the Times of Israel. He does not care about anything but maintaining his position.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 8:28 pm
by PizzaSnake
Hmm. Somebody's political doppelganger?
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 10:56 pm
by jhu72
... yup, no surprise these two fit like hand and glove.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2024 11:13 pm
by jhu72
Bibi and his fascist real estate developers CAN"T CHANGE THIS!!! With this type of resistance in the US, it is a pipe dream to believe the US will never abandon a fascist Israeli state!!! Jews aren't going to disappear, they have a home in the US since 1948, as long as it remains a liberal democracy. Israel will either get along with it's neighbors or it will never live up to the dream of it being a Jewish homeland. Dumbass American Jews buying second homes in the Golan is counter productive.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:08 am
by Kismet
This is a new one -
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/17 ... s-war-news
"Wireless Devices Explode Across Lebanon After Israel Warns Hezbollah
A Lebanese official said pagers belonging to Hezbollah militants had exploded, causing a large number of injuries. The Israeli military declined to comment.
Large numbers of “wireless devices” simultaneously exploded across Lebanon on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Lebanese Health Ministry, a day after Israeli leaders warned that they were considering stepping up their military campaign against Hezbollah.
A Lebanese intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said that the blasts occurred after pagers belonging to Hezbollah members exploded across Lebanon, resulting in a large number of injuries.
Lebanon’s Health Ministry said in a statement that many people had arrived at Lebanese hospitals after being wounded when their “wireless devices” exploded. The ministry warned citizens to stay away from similar devices until it was clear what had caused the blasts.
The Lebanese Red Cross said in a statement that 80 ambulances were responding to “multiple bombings” in southern and eastern Lebanon, as well as in Beirut, the capital.
In other news - Netanyahu Is Said to Consider Firing Israel’s Defense Minister
Dismissing the minister, Yoav Gallant, would remove a frequent critic of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a time of mounting tensions with Hezbollah."
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:29 am
by jhu72
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:08 am
This is a new one -
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/17 ... s-war-news
"Wireless Devices Explode Across Lebanon After Israel Warns Hezbollah
A Lebanese official said pagers belonging to Hezbollah militants had exploded, causing a large number of injuries. The Israeli military declined to comment.
Large numbers of “wireless devices” simultaneously exploded across Lebanon on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Lebanese Health Ministry, a day after Israeli leaders warned that they were considering stepping up their military campaign against Hezbollah.
A Lebanese intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said that the blasts occurred after pagers belonging to Hezbollah members exploded across Lebanon, resulting in a large number of injuries.
Lebanon’s Health Ministry said in a statement that many people had arrived at Lebanese hospitals after being wounded when their “wireless devices” exploded. The ministry warned citizens to stay away from similar devices until it was clear what had caused the blasts.
The Lebanese Red Cross said in a statement that 80 ambulances were responding to “multiple bombings” in southern and eastern Lebanon, as well as in Beirut, the capital.
In other news - Netanyahu Is Said to Consider Firing Israel’s Defense Minister
Dismissing the minister, Yoav Gallant, would remove a frequent critic of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a time of mounting tensions with Hezbollah." Yup -- Netanyahu is a mad man! Gallant has far more popular support than Benny.
... strange that Hezbollah is using pager explosions. Seems to me targeting is a real problem. Can be done but takes a lot of effort.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:31 am
by Kismet
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:29 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:08 am
This is a new one -
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/17 ... s-war-news
"Wireless Devices Explode Across Lebanon After Israel Warns Hezbollah
A Lebanese official said pagers belonging to Hezbollah militants had exploded, causing a large number of injuries. The Israeli military declined to comment.
Large numbers of “wireless devices” simultaneously exploded across Lebanon on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Lebanese Health Ministry, a day after Israeli leaders warned that they were considering stepping up their military campaign against Hezbollah.
A Lebanese intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said that the blasts occurred after pagers belonging to Hezbollah members exploded across Lebanon, resulting in a large number of injuries.
Lebanon’s Health Ministry said in a statement that many people had arrived at Lebanese hospitals after being wounded when their “wireless devices” exploded. The ministry warned citizens to stay away from similar devices until it was clear what had caused the blasts.
The Lebanese Red Cross said in a statement that 80 ambulances were responding to “multiple bombings” in southern and eastern Lebanon, as well as in Beirut, the capital.
In other news - Netanyahu Is Said to Consider Firing Israel’s Defense Minister
Dismissing the minister, Yoav Gallant, would remove a frequent critic of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a time of mounting tensions with Hezbollah." Yup -- Netanyahu is a mad man! Gallant has far more popular support than Benny.
... strange that Hezbollah is using pager explosions. Seems to me targeting is a real problem. Can be done but takes a lot of effort.
They apparently switched to pagers because they thought the Israelis were targeting and tracking their celll phones.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew ... -exploded/
"I asked an ex-IDF intel agent about this. They don't think it was a remote hack.
It's more likely that devices were intercepted, explosive capability put on the pager, and then software tampered with to make sure the devices exploded when a specific message came in."
"If Israel’s intelligence services are indeed behind the Hezbollah pager explosions all over Lebanon — and they likely are — it is an extraordinary decision.
It means they are likely burning whatever route they used to get these pagers into Hezbollah’s hands, the sources they used likely can’t be used anymore, and now Hezbollah and the Islamic Republic of Iran will conduct a top-to-bottom check of every electronic device, which means they may discover other devices or other ways Israel has penetrated their electronics.
So, clearly, Israel has deemed the immediate gain more valuable than the long-term potential use of these compromised devices.
And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the devices were recently received by Hezbollah so perhaps Israel also felt like it had a short window to take advantage of this option."
Turns out the Israelis set up the Hungarian company distributor of the pagers and walkie-talkies. They wither took delivery of or manufactured the devices under license and inserted the explosive, switch and software and the sold the devices to Hezbollah.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 2:37 am
by jhu72
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:31 am
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:29 am
Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:08 am
This is a new one -
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/17 ... s-war-news
"Wireless Devices Explode Across Lebanon After Israel Warns Hezbollah
A Lebanese official said pagers belonging to Hezbollah militants had exploded, causing a large number of injuries. The Israeli military declined to comment.
Large numbers of “wireless devices” simultaneously exploded across Lebanon on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Lebanese Health Ministry, a day after Israeli leaders warned that they were considering stepping up their military campaign against Hezbollah.
A Lebanese intelligence official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter, said that the blasts occurred after pagers belonging to Hezbollah members exploded across Lebanon, resulting in a large number of injuries.
Lebanon’s Health Ministry said in a statement that many people had arrived at Lebanese hospitals after being wounded when their “wireless devices” exploded. The ministry warned citizens to stay away from similar devices until it was clear what had caused the blasts.
The Lebanese Red Cross said in a statement that 80 ambulances were responding to “multiple bombings” in southern and eastern Lebanon, as well as in Beirut, the capital.
In other news - Netanyahu Is Said to Consider Firing Israel’s Defense Minister
Dismissing the minister, Yoav Gallant, would remove a frequent critic of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a time of mounting tensions with Hezbollah." Yup -- Netanyahu is a mad man! Gallant has far more popular support than Benny.
... strange that Hezbollah is using pager explosions. Seems to me targeting is a real problem. Can be done but takes a lot of effort.
They apparently switched to pagers because they thought the Israelis were targeting and tracking their celll phones.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew ... -exploded/
"I asked an ex-IDF intel agent about this. They don't think it was a remote hack.
It's more likely that devices were intercepted, explosive capability put on the pager, and then software tampered with to make sure the devices exploded when a specific message came in."
"If Israel’s intelligence services are indeed behind the Hezbollah pager explosions all over Lebanon — and they likely are — it is an extraordinary decision.
It means they are likely burning whatever route they used to get these pagers into Hezbollah’s hands, the sources they used likely can’t be used anymore, and now Hezbollah and the Islamic Republic of Iran will conduct a top-to-bottom check of every electronic device, which means they may discover other devices or other ways Israel has penetrated their electronics.
So, clearly, Israel has deemed the immediate gain more valuable than the long-term potential use of these compromised devices.
And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the devices were recently received by Hezbollah so perhaps Israel also felt like it had a short window to take advantage of this option."
... when I first saw a report of the pager explosions early this AM -- it was attributed to Hezbollah, the mainstream press was claiming Hezbollah had taken responsibility, which made no sense. Turns out, this was Israeli terrorism, which makes a lot more sense, given who the victims are. The US press seems to have fallen for this Israeli propaganda, initially.
Just continues to make me suspicious of US reporting of Israeli favorable stories -- Israel gets all kinds of free passes -- by the US press that no one else does. This to me seems a pretty egregious case. Now it t urns out Israel was responsible and did not notify the US (not surprising) before going down this path.
