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Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:49 pm
by cradleandshoot
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:41 pm
njbill wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:12 pm
Haha. Lawyers make mistakes, too, as do their clerks.
The reason I think this was just sloppiness is that the original documents were already out in the public domain, or at least in the litigation. They didn’t have dates on them. So it would’ve been incredibly dumb to try to submit an alternative version of handwritten notes when everyone already had a copy of the original, undated version.
I can picture how this went down. If I am trying to organize a pile of documents and put them in chronological order, I might try to figure out when undated handwritten notes were prepared. If I think I have a pretty good guess, I might write that date on a yellow sticky and put it in a corner of the document. Then I put the document in the correct chronological order.
I can see how a document could be copied without removing the sticky. I have seen that happen many, many times.
I don't think you lawyers could exist without post it notes and yellow highlighters.
i can't remember over the last 3 years years how many documents my attorney has mailed me with those little yellow sticky notes where I needed to sign. Fortunately for me the 3rd appeals court in Albany has finally heard my case. It only took 18 months from when my attorney filed our appeal.
Justice is not only blind but it is also very slow. That is why it cracks me up knowing trump with his army of attorneys will be doing battle with this same system. What this system could not accomplish for me in 2 years they think they could adjudicate the case quicker for trump? trump will be dead and gone and pushing up daisies before these legal folks in NYS ever get a pound of his flesh.
I think that this in the intent.....drag it out so long, that eventually one side wears down and concedes to just get it over with.
+1 a brilliant observation.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:22 am
by seacoaster
Mike Flynn, crazy person and promoter of an anti-democratic coup:
https://twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/status ... 9467939841
Maybe Sullivan's hyperbole was closer to the mark.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:48 am
by Typical Lax Dad
That is this board’s military caucus’s guy.... A patriot!!
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:19 am
by RedFromMI
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:48 am
That is this board’s military caucus’s guy.... A patriot!!
Some are calling it sedition on my Twitter feed. Not sure it fully meets the legal definition, but that is where we are right now.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:03 am
by seacoaster
RedFromMI wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:19 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:48 am
That is this board’s military caucus’s guy.... A patriot!!
Some are calling it sedition on my Twitter feed. Not sure it fully meets the legal definition, but that is where we are right now.
It's pretty remarkable, and so very appropriate for the epoch we appear to be stuck in, that a retired Lt. General (who took an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution) and was recently pardoned (through a Constitutional process), should call for martial law and a suspension of the very Constitution on which his freedom is based and that he once swore to protect. And that this is just another day ending in "y" in TrumpTime.
So,. borrowing a little from General Hertling, here is where we are:
GOP election officials are being threatened.
The President is pardoning potential co-conspirators, and pardoning people prospectively.
Covid cases and deaths are proceeding at a terrible pace.
The President says won't sign the defense spending authorizations until and unless Section 230 protections are repealed.
The President and his crazy apostles are inflicting irreparable damage to our basic institutions relating to elections, and confidence in the outcomes of elections (notwithstanding the down-[the same]ballot success of the GOP).
And no GOP Senator and exceptionally few GOP Congress-people have the courage to say anything. It's really pretty alarming.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:52 am
by seacoaster
The real Deep State (from Frank Bruni of the Times):
"President Trump was right about the “deep state” — sort of. There exist, in government, people and forces rigged to foil disruption.
But the deep state isn’t, as he suggested, a reflexive defense of a corrupt status quo. It’s a righteous defense against the corruption of democracy, which he continues to attempt.
And that defense is holding. Three cheers for the deep state.
I’m thinking of Brad Raffensperger, Georgia’s secretary of state, who supervises its elections. He refused to cry foul and fraud just because others in his party couldn’t abide Joe Biden’s victory in a state that hadn’t gone to a Democrat in a presidential election for nearly three decades.
“People are just going to have to accept the results,” he told The Washington Post. “I’m a Republican. I believe in fair and secure elections.” As President Trump, the two U.S. senators from Georgia and others on the right pilloried him, he stuck to his assurance that a fair and secure election was precisely what Georgians had participated in and what had delivered the state’s electoral votes to Biden.
He was bolstered yesterday by another top-ranking Georgia official, another Republican not about to let the republic go to hell. Gabriel Sterling, Georgia’s voting system implementation manager, scolded Trump at a news conference at the state Capitol.
Raffensperger and Sterling aren’t the only Republicans who have restored some of the faith and hope in me that the past four years eroded. Lee Chatfield, the Republican speaker of Michigan’s House of Representatives, and Mike Shirkey, the Republican majority leader of Michigan’s Senate, have also done that. They took that scary trip to the White House almost two weeks ago and then took a pass on propping up Trump.
“We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and, as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors,” they said in a joint statement immediately following their meeting with the president. Follow the normal process. Such milquetoast verbiage, and such a titanic reassurance.
Also in my deep state: Judge Stephanos Bibas of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit in Philadelphia, a Trump appointee who, in a blistering ruling on Friday, rejected the president’s efforts to invalidate millions of Pennsylvania ballots. “Voters, not lawyers, choose the president,” he wrote on behalf of the three judges hearing the case, all appointed by Republicans. “Ballots, not briefs, decide elections.” Such statements of the obvious, and such sweet, sweet relief.
Was there a seed of truth in Trump’s fulminations about insiders so stuck in their ways and attached to their stations that they might balk instinctively at newcomers and new ideas? Absolutely. That’s a danger within any sprawling and enduring organization. It’s something to watch for and worry about.
But Trump’s watching was paranoid. His worry was hysterical. And his motive wasn’t the improvement of government but the inoculation of self. The deep state saw through that, and the deep state stirred.
“Deep state” isn’t the right term — its overtone is too clandestine, its undertone too nefarious — but let’s go with it, co-opt it. And let’s define it ourselves, not as a swampy society of self-preserving bureaucrats in Washington but as a steadfast, tradition-minded legion of public officials and civil servants all over the country, in every branch of government.
These officials and servants are distinguished by an understanding that the codes of conduct and rules of engagement become more important, not less, when passions run hot.
“Thank God for the deep state,” John McLaughlin, a former deputy and acting director of the C.I.A., said in October 2019 at a panel on election security that included other former leaders of the C.I.A. and F.B.I.
But my deep state is both deeper and broader than those agencies. It extends beyond the diplomats (William Taylor, Marie Yovanovitch) and security officials (Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman) who played starring roles in Trump’s impeachment.
Anthony Fauci is the steely superhero of my deep state, and he’s flanked and fortified by all the government health officials who also pushed back against the quackery of Scott Atlas, the Trump-flattering pandemic adviser who resigned on Monday.
They belong to a quiet and then not-so-quiet resistance that blunted, thwarted or tried to blunt and thwart Trump’s worst impulses when it came not just to public health but also to foreign policy, immigration, the environment. In The Times late last week, Lisa Friedman described such efforts within the Environmental Protection Agency.
She wrote that E.P.A. employees have long been engaged “in a bureaucratic battle with the agency’s political leaders. But now, with the Biden administration on the horizon, they are emboldened to stymie Trump’s goals and to do so more openly.”
That’s the deep state rearing up — and roaring. It should be music to our ears."
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:25 am
by dislaxxic
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 am
by seacoaster
I actually don’t think Pence would agree to become 46 if the price of admission was pardoning Trump. His obituary would read “he pardoned Trump during a one-day presidency.” Mother wouldn’t allow it.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:44 am
by njbill
I agree. There was a time when that seemed like a possibility, but I think that ship has sailed. Bit of a rift seems to be developing between T**** and Pence. Still possible, though.
If that gambit doesn’t play out, the question then is will T**** pardon himself? If he were to do so, I think the chances of him being indicted by Biden’s AG go up, perhaps dramatically. If T**** isn’t charged with a crime, the self pardon wouldn’t be tested. And it would be essential that it be tested in court.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:57 am
by dislaxxic
njbill wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:44 am T****
He Who Shall Not Be Named, eh?
..
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:04 pm
by njbill
Stealing that from Colbert. Must give credit where credit is due.
Re: "The Deep State" - aka A Trump Lizard Brain Delusion
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:08 pm
by dislaxxic
Re: "The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:13 pm
by njbill
Sullivan will get to the bottom of the altered documents. The Flynn pardon doesn’t really change that. Even if he dismisses the case against Flynn, which he will do at some point, Sullivan can and probably will continue to find out what happened with the documents.
My money is still on a sloppy mistake, but we shall see.
I agree with those who say Barr appointed Durham special counsel to give him some additional protections to make it harder for Biden’s AG to fire him.
Nonetheless, I think there are ways that can be done. For one thing, the special counsel appointment, itself, seems to have been for an improper purpose. Alternatively, a very simple solution is to cut his budget to nil.
In any event, I think Biden’s AG will take a look at what Durham is doing. If he is pursuing a legitimate investigation, and if he convinces the AG he is an honest investigator, then they might let him conclude his work. If he is simply pursuing a T**** political agenda, he gets the ax.
Re: "The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:38 am
by dislaxxic
Clinesmith Sentencing Memo Badly Discredits the Durham Investigation
...and further buries the Frothy Right's arguments about the genesis of Crossfire Hurricane.
..
The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:00 pm
by old salt
Re: The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:29 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
What’s that got to do with Flynn lying?
Re: The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:32 am
by youthathletics
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:29 pm
What’s that got to do with Flynn lying?
Then why has the court case gone on for 3 plus years, if it's so open and shut? Even a damned high court judge had to go the en banc route and still could not close it.
Maybe Flynn lied to protect his homeys, fall on the sword. Have you and Flynn spoken?
Re: The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:43 am
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:32 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:29 pm
What’s that got to do with Flynn lying?
Then why has the court case gone on for 3 plus years, if it's so open and shut? Even a damned high court judge had to go the en banc route and still could not close it.
Maybe Flynn lied to protect his homeys, fall on the sword. Have you and Flynn spoken?
So Flynn did lie?
Re: The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:59 am
by seacoaster
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:32 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:29 pm
What’s that got to do with Flynn lying?
Then why has the court case gone on for 3 plus years, if it's so open and shut? Even a damned high court judge had to go the en banc route and still could not close it.
Maybe Flynn lied to protect his homeys, fall on the sword. Have you and Flynn spoken?
The case opened with Flynn lying to federal investigators, and shut when he accepted the plea deal and pled guilty to a felony.
The case went on for three years because Flynn took a while to get to the plea agreement, changed lawyers, made the cooperation agreement with Mueller, made the plea and took and accepted the plea in Court but then changed lawyers again, hiring the Kraken, who futzed around for a year with melodrama and pretty ineffective lawyering (but apparently pretty good lionizing by the right-wing nutcake public), and then Barr stepped in at the tacit request of his boss and patron. Then when Sullivan wanted to explore the unusual nature of the withdrawal of the prosecution (notwithstanding the fact that the prosecutorial aspect of the case had ended), we went prematurely to a federal appeals court and then we were back in the federal district court for briefing on the withdrawal issue, and then there was a pardon granted by Individual No. 1.
So yeah, three years. Because he lied to federal investigators. I don't care if he "fell on his sword." Falling on your sword to protect other criminals and wrongdoers doesn't get you a pass, particularly when you caption yourself "General," and have a duty to the oath you took.
Re: The Flynn Dossier
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:00 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:43 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:32 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:29 pm
What’s that got to do with Flynn lying?
Then why has the court case gone on for 3 plus years, if it's so open and shut? Even a damned high court judge had to go the en banc route and still could not close it.
Maybe Flynn lied to protect his homeys, fall on the sword. Have you and Flynn spoken?
So Flynn did lie?
nah, he only twice plead guilty to lying. He didn't lie originally and he wasn't lying when he allocated to the lie under oath either...yikes, how could that be?