Page 182 of 236
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:46 am
by MDlaxfan76
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 am
They’re bad now because we’re paying for underfunded long term obligations made ages ago. However we got here (not enough taxes, too much spending on opex/waste) the deficits are fueled by Medicare/Medicaid and SSI. Arguing about marginal deficit spending is ridiculous when we have this hanging over our head and it’s only going to get worse as a greater proportion of the population is retirement age vs working age and overall population potentially shrinking due to HH replacement rate deficiency + our tightening of immigration (even the legal kind has been getting squeezed for 20yrs before some maniac starts talking about “border control”).
I find it pointless to talk about it on the margin or incrementally with this overhang and therefor default to it being a problem. In abstraction and starting at a zero point in the timeline then yes deficit spending is fine. Even in earlier years of say the first century. But now with where we are at to ignore that existing gap and call deficit spending “investment” when it’s at best deferred maintenance is objectionable on many levels to me. If we need a reset then let’s call it that and jam who we need to jam to do so. It’s tough medicine but that’s the more honesty and transparent way to fix the problems we’ve created IMO.
Just to be clear, even deferred maintenance should get done, right?
Not deferred even more?
But if there's a new, better, more efficient replacement, then scrap the old?
Yes, we should greatly expand legal immigration.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 am
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:01 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:17 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:10 pm
Care to expand/explain?
Sure- just reporting more Biden news and happenings.
He’s handling things.
This week he’s gonna uncluster Trump’s Russia stance, and give Putin a stern talking to, via Zoom.
What do you think he should be doing with Putin? Or is this more of your vacuous "Biden Bad," without even bothering with a critique?
The critique is simple. It's the approach. We all know Putin's ego. It's just like business. If he's truly serious with Biden and cares about improving things with Russia especially over Ukraine, he should have done a face to face. That's when real deals get done and real compromise happens with people like Vlad. If you're closing on any important business deal, you show your real face. Covid or not. Busy schedule or not. The level of respect shown and earnestness shown in a f2f is real and something you don't get with video meetings. That tells me there won't be much change unless these meetings are just the start of a bigger plan and just part of something much more frequent.
The AP story laid it out well. Putin wants NATO gone. And the diplomatic sanctions including the ones outlined above, won't prevent anything and will just be reactionary. Biden needs to be the good cop re: NATO, build a relationship, and cross his fingers diplomacy works.
As an aside, let's hope Biden's evacuation plan for US citizens in Ukraine is better than the last ordeal.
I think a face to face would have been a mistake.
There should be zero reward for Putin's aggressive actions and demands.
Zero. Zippo.
And that's the point.
Putin has been clearly told (hopefully) that the US and the allies Biden engaged before and after the call, agree to drive consequences of further threatening/invading Ukraine will be much more than 2014.
This is not a moment for "compromise" or "deal" with Putin.
Note, it's extremely unlikely we're going to go to war for Ukraine, they're not part of NATO, and Putin knows that, so he's probing to see how far he can go in expanding Russia's hegemony before we will actually do anything. If mere saber rattling is rewarded, there's gonna be much more to come.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 am
by get it to x
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:46 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 am
They’re bad now because we’re paying for underfunded long term obligations made ages ago. However we got here (not enough taxes, too much spending on opex/waste) the deficits are fueled by Medicare/Medicaid and SSI. Arguing about marginal deficit spending is ridiculous when we have this hanging over our head and it’s only going to get worse as a greater proportion of the population is retirement age vs working age and overall population potentially shrinking due to HH replacement rate deficiency + our tightening of immigration (even the legal kind has been getting squeezed for 20yrs before some maniac starts talking about “border control”).
I find it pointless to talk about it on the margin or incrementally with this overhang and therefor default to it being a problem. In abstraction and starting at a zero point in the timeline then yes deficit spending is fine. Even in earlier years of say the first century. But now with where we are at to ignore that existing gap and call deficit spending “investment” when it’s at best deferred maintenance is objectionable on many levels to me. If we need a reset then let’s call it that and jam who we need to jam to do so. It’s tough medicine but that’s the more honesty and transparent way to fix the problems we’ve created IMO.
Just to be clear, even deferred maintenance should get done, right?
Not deferred even more?
But if there's a new, better, more efficient replacement, then scrap the old?
Yes, we should greatly expand legal immigration.
We don't need more cheap labor. We are having to import talent because we're doing a crappy job of producing it here. If we don't reform education to just educate (and not try to parent) we are screwed. The more time these children spend learning head trash instead of algebra the quicker we will decline as a country.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:15 am
by Farfromgeneva
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:46 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 am
They’re bad now because we’re paying for underfunded long term obligations made ages ago. However we got here (not enough taxes, too much spending on opex/waste) the deficits are fueled by Medicare/Medicaid and SSI. Arguing about marginal deficit spending is ridiculous when we have this hanging over our head and it’s only going to get worse as a greater proportion of the population is retirement age vs working age and overall population potentially shrinking due to HH replacement rate deficiency + our tightening of immigration (even the legal kind has been getting squeezed for 20yrs before some maniac starts talking about “border control”).
I find it pointless to talk about it on the margin or incrementally with this overhang and therefor default to it being a problem. In abstraction and starting at a zero point in the timeline then yes deficit spending is fine. Even in earlier years of say the first century. But now with where we are at to ignore that existing gap and call deficit spending “investment” when it’s at best deferred maintenance is objectionable on many levels to me. If we need a reset then let’s call it that and jam who we need to jam to do so. It’s tough medicine but that’s the more honesty and transparent way to fix the problems we’ve created IMO.
Just to be clear, even deferred maintenance should get done, right?
Not deferred even more?
But if there's a new, better, more efficient replacement, then scrap the old?
Yes, we should greatly expand legal immigration.
Basically yes but the distinction, in this analogy I’m extending of yours into business finance, is that deferred maintenance just maintains the original average life of the asset, it’s not an investment that generates incremental new returns. So every new dollar spent should be evaluated:
Does the asset have the same duration/life as originally planned?
If not does doing implementing maintenance still make sense?
Does it cannabilize more productive existing or new investments?
If it doesn’t satisfy some of those and a few other considerations then we have to take a baseball bat to that asset (or pawn it off on a foreign entity potentially for liquidation value
) and then find and make the new investment that is superior or tangential/adjacent to the goals (payoff/return) we expect.
So do we Ma it in the same road system we had the prior 50yrs or build new ones from scratch as populations move around?
Does subsidizing air or rail make sense and in what capacity.
Ethanol? Should we kill it and all related sugar trade barriers? F**k corn!
But I get the sense that many just want to throw the money back into the old stuff without taking a hard look at whether it reflect the current and future world as we project it. We have to acknowledge sunk costs if we’re going to deficit spend. This feels in no way a comprehensive and thoughtful package but a grab bag of to do lists cats have had for 5-15yrs (less for some newbies to politics). And like our monetary policy causing problems now because it had to do heavy lifting for the fiscal side for 20-30yrs I also want deficit spending to be in the context of “one hand not knowing what the other is doing”.
(I’m heading to a middle market accounting conference in an hour and a half for rest of day so getting into accountant mode even though I’m there to see some partner buddies and maybe a little business networking and will probably be on my phone or laptop through most of the presentations)
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:17 am
by Farfromgeneva
get it to x wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:46 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 am
They’re bad now because we’re paying for underfunded long term obligations made ages ago. However we got here (not enough taxes, too much spending on opex/waste) the deficits are fueled by Medicare/Medicaid and SSI. Arguing about marginal deficit spending is ridiculous when we have this hanging over our head and it’s only going to get worse as a greater proportion of the population is retirement age vs working age and overall population potentially shrinking due to HH replacement rate deficiency + our tightening of immigration (even the legal kind has been getting squeezed for 20yrs before some maniac starts talking about “border control”).
I find it pointless to talk about it on the margin or incrementally with this overhang and therefor default to it being a problem. In abstraction and starting at a zero point in the timeline then yes deficit spending is fine. Even in earlier years of say the first century. But now with where we are at to ignore that existing gap and call deficit spending “investment” when it’s at best deferred maintenance is objectionable on many levels to me. If we need a reset then let’s call it that and jam who we need to jam to do so. It’s tough medicine but that’s the more honesty and transparent way to fix the problems we’ve created IMO.
Just to be clear, even deferred maintenance should get done, right?
Not deferred even more?
But if there's a new, better, more efficient replacement, then scrap the old?
Yes, we should greatly expand legal immigration.
We don't need more cheap labor. We are having to import talent because we're doing a crappy job of producing it here. If we don't reform education to just educate (and not try to parent) we are screwed. The more time these children spend learning head trash instead of algebra the quicker we will decline as a country.
How are we going to pay for defined/long term benefit obligations? (Setting aside our original context to open arms to others who want to be here regardless)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewres ... d/%3famp=1
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:34 am
by kramerica.inc
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:01 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:17 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:10 pm
Care to expand/explain?
Sure- just reporting more Biden news and happenings.
He’s handling things.
This week he’s gonna uncluster Trump’s Russia stance, and give Putin a stern talking to, via Zoom.
What do you think he should be doing with Putin? Or is this more of your vacuous "Biden Bad," without even bothering with a critique?
The critique is simple. It's the approach. We all know Putin's ego. It's just like business. If he's truly serious with Biden and cares about improving things with Russia especially over Ukraine, he should have done a face to face. That's when real deals get done and real compromise happens with people like Vlad. If you're closing on any important business deal, you show your real face. Covid or not. Busy schedule or not. The level of respect shown and earnestness shown in a f2f is real and something you don't get with video meetings. That tells me there won't be much change unless these meetings are just the start of a bigger plan and just part of something much more frequent.
The AP story laid it out well. Putin wants NATO gone. And the diplomatic sanctions including the ones outlined above, won't prevent anything and will just be reactionary. Biden needs to be the good cop re: NATO, build a relationship, and cross his fingers diplomacy works.
As an aside, let's hope Biden's evacuation plan for US citizens in Ukraine is better than the last ordeal.
I think a face to face would have been a mistake.
There should be zero reward for Putin's aggressive actions and demands.
Zero. Zippo.
And that's the point.
Putin has been clearly told (hopefully) that the US and the allies Biden engaged before and after the call, agree to drive consequences of further threatening/invading Ukraine will be much more than 2014.
This is not a moment for "compromise" or "deal" with Putin.
Note, it's extremely unlikely we're going to go to war for Ukraine, they're not part of NATO, and Putin knows that, so he's probing to see how far he can go in expanding Russia's hegemony before we will actually do anything. If mere saber rattling is rewarded, there's gonna be much more to come.
I slightly disagree. I think you play good cop and absolutely try to negotiate with Russia.
A face to face isn't necessarily a reward. It means business. Putin isn't Kim Jong-un who needs validation. But you do need to negotiate and come to the table in good faith. That may have started 6 mos ago. But build on it with something real. Especially when you have something pressing like Ukraine and Nord2 hanging out there. Putin knows that the US's threat against Nord2 isn't real or serious. Biden showed that last time by going against both party's recommendations. Now that Biden has shown he wants to appease, go further- help expedite Nord 2 as a reward for de-escalating. Then gain favor of Germany and the EU by lessening the gas crunch.
There is plenty to discuss with Russia if you want to get down to it. How about talking Russia's buildup near Ukraine, Lithuania and others. They don't want NATO nearby? Stop the border buildups themselves. How about their strategic nuclear buildup and locations? We were supposed to talk more about that after we started 6 mos ago.
Let's talk cyber terrorism too.
Want to further growth? How about setting general ground rules and starting over on Embassies?
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:41 am
by seacoaster
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:01 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:17 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:10 pm
Care to expand/explain?
Sure- just reporting more Biden news and happenings.
He’s handling things.
This week he’s gonna uncluster Trump’s Russia stance, and give Putin a stern talking to, via Zoom.
What do you think he should be doing with Putin? Or is this more of your vacuous "Biden Bad," without even bothering with a critique?
The critique is simple. It's the approach. We all know Putin's ego. It's just like business. If he's truly serious with Biden and cares about improving things with Russia especially over Ukraine, he should have done a face to face. That's when real deals get done and real compromise happens with people like Vlad. If you're closing on any important business deal, you show your real face. Covid or not. Busy schedule or not. The level of respect shown and earnestness shown in a f2f is real and something you don't get with video meetings. That tells me there won't be much change unless these meetings are just the start of a bigger plan and just part of something much more frequent.
The AP story laid it out well. Putin wants NATO gone. And the diplomatic sanctions including the ones outlined above, won't prevent anything and will just be reactionary. Biden needs to be the good cop re: NATO, build a relationship, and cross his fingers diplomacy works.
As an aside, let's hope Biden's evacuation plan for US citizens in Ukraine is better than the last ordeal.
I think a face to face would have been a mistake.
There should be zero reward for Putin's aggressive actions and demands.
Zero. Zippo.
And that's the point.
Putin has been clearly told (hopefully) that the US and the allies Biden engaged before and after the call, agree to drive consequences of further threatening/invading Ukraine will be much more than 2014.
This is not a moment for "compromise" or "deal" with Putin.
Note, it's extremely unlikely we're going to go to war for Ukraine, they're not part of NATO, and Putin knows that, so he's probing to see how far he can go in expanding Russia's hegemony before we will actually do anything. If mere saber rattling is rewarded, there's gonna be much more to come.
Agreed. A face to face meeting was totally unnecessary and unwarranted. It was unwarranted because the only purpose of the meeting was delivery of the promise of sanctions if Russia hits the tripwire. There was no deal to be made that required face to face communication, and frankly it isn't necessary to deal-making anymore. It's nice, particularly when one wants or needs to develop a personal relationship with the other party; but Putin's Russia is a global enemy (and indeed an arch-enemy of working democracies), not a long-term co-venturer or even partner of necessity.
A face to face meeting was likewise unnecessary because its only outcome would be to give Putin the credibility of a world leader, when he needs to be isolated for what he is: the public face of a bullying kleptocracy that only builds itself up by diminishing the status and way of life of others. Trump went to Helsinki and essentially debased himself and our country on the altar of Putin's supposed strongman character. Biden and Blinken know better than to do that.
But, I guess you have to have the "both sides are bad" and "Joe's weakness is as bad as Trump's faux strength." It's all bullsh*t and Kramer knows it.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
by get it to x
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:01 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:17 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:10 pm
Care to expand/explain?
Sure- just reporting more Biden news and happenings.
He’s handling things.
This week he’s gonna uncluster Trump’s Russia stance, and give Putin a stern talking to, via Zoom.
What do you think he should be doing with Putin? Or is this more of your vacuous "Biden Bad," without even bothering with a critique?
The critique is simple. It's the approach. We all know Putin's ego. It's just like business. If he's truly serious with Biden and cares about improving things with Russia especially over Ukraine, he should have done a face to face. That's when real deals get done and real compromise happens with people like Vlad. If you're closing on any important business deal, you show your real face. Covid or not. Busy schedule or not. The level of respect shown and earnestness shown in a f2f is real and something you don't get with video meetings. That tells me there won't be much change unless these meetings are just the start of a bigger plan and just part of something much more frequent.
The AP story laid it out well. Putin wants NATO gone. And the diplomatic sanctions including the ones outlined above, won't prevent anything and will just be reactionary. Biden needs to be the good cop re: NATO, build a relationship, and cross his fingers diplomacy works.
As an aside, let's hope Biden's evacuation plan for US citizens in Ukraine is better than the last ordeal.
I think a face to face would have been a mistake.
There should be zero reward for Putin's aggressive actions and demands.
Zero. Zippo.
And that's the point.
Putin has been clearly told (hopefully) that the US and the allies Biden engaged before and after the call, agree to drive consequences of further threatening/invading Ukraine will be much more than 2014.
This is not a moment for "compromise" or "deal" with Putin.
Note, it's extremely unlikely we're going to go to war for Ukraine, they're not part of NATO, and Putin knows that, so he's probing to see how far he can go in expanding Russia's hegemony before we will actually do anything. If mere saber rattling is rewarded, there's gonna be much more to come.
Agreed. A face to face meeting was totally unnecessary and unwarranted. It was unwarranted because the only purpose of the meeting was delivery of the promise of sanctions if Russia hits the tripwire. There was no deal to be made that required face to face communication, and frankly it isn't necessary to deal-making anymore. It's nice, particularly when one wants or needs to develop a personal relationship with the other party; but Putin's Russia is a global enemy (and indeed an arch-enemy of working democracies), not a long-term co-venturer or even partner of necessity.
A face to face meeting was likewise unnecessary because its only outcome would be to give Putin the credibility of a world leader, when he needs to be isolated for what he is: the public face of a bullying kleptocracy that only builds itself up by diminishing the status and way of life of others. Trump went to Helsinki and essentially debased himself and our country on the altar of Putin's supposed strongman character. Biden and Blinken know better than to do that.
But, I guess you have to have the "both sides are bad" and "Joe's weakness is as bad as Trump's faux strength." It's all bullsh*t and Kramer knows it.
Please remind me again why we are picking a fight with Russia. What is our national interest? Please stop picking the Russia scab and pay attention to our real rival, the PRC.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:08 pm
by dislaxxic
NO ONE is "picking a fight" x...we are seeing massive military buildup on Russia's border with Ukraine. President Biden is telling Putin NOT to start a fight with Ukraine...but, is that all that hard to discern??
..
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:14 pm
by get it to x
dislaxxic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:08 pm
NO ONE is "picking a fight" x...we are seeing massive military buildup on Russia's border with Ukraine. President Biden is telling Putin NOT to start a fight with Ukraine...but, is that all that hard to discern??
..
You mean the same President "Tough Guy" that was against the Bin Laden raid? For all we know this is just a test of Biden's spine.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:21 pm
by a fan
get it to x wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
Please remind me again why we are picking a fight with Russia. What is our national interest? Please stop picking the Russia scab and pay attention to our real rival, the PRC.
I agree completely with the Russia part in terms of picking a fight. Stop importing Russian goods for the cybernonsense, and tell Putin to get bent until he stops with that stuff. Ignore him and his piddly GDP, and focus on more important subjects.
As for China.....Trump's trade war INCREASED imports from China. So that was a failure. And we have about 300,000 Chinese Students in Universities here, so that's quite a brain drain that we're educating them instead of our own citizens.
What do you propose we do.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:25 pm
by MDlaxfan76
get it to x wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:46 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:29 am
They’re bad now because we’re paying for underfunded long term obligations made ages ago. However we got here (not enough taxes, too much spending on opex/waste) the deficits are fueled by Medicare/Medicaid and SSI. Arguing about marginal deficit spending is ridiculous when we have this hanging over our head and it’s only going to get worse as a greater proportion of the population is retirement age vs working age and overall population potentially shrinking due to HH replacement rate deficiency + our tightening of immigration (even the legal kind has been getting squeezed for 20yrs before some maniac starts talking about “border control”).
I find it pointless to talk about it on the margin or incrementally with this overhang and therefor default to it being a problem. In abstraction and starting at a zero point in the timeline then yes deficit spending is fine. Even in earlier years of say the first century. But now with where we are at to ignore that existing gap and call deficit spending “investment” when it’s at best deferred maintenance is objectionable on many levels to me. If we need a reset then let’s call it that and jam who we need to jam to do so. It’s tough medicine but that’s the more honesty and transparent way to fix the problems we’ve created IMO.
Just to be clear, even deferred maintenance should get done, right?
Not deferred even more?
But if there's a new, better, more efficient replacement, then scrap the old?
Yes, we should greatly expand legal immigration.
We don't need more cheap labor. We are having to import talent because we're doing a crappy job of producing it here. If we don't reform education to just educate (and not try to parent) we are screwed. The more time these children spend learning head trash instead of algebra the quicker we will decline as a country.
Ohhh, I'm certainly in favor of investing in the human capital born here in the US. I'd spend far more on education, in all aspects.
I'd also invest heavily in all the other social determinants that impede human capital development, from lead pipe removal to urban and rural digital access, health access, etc...and much more...long list.
I don't buy the "head trash" comment at all, at least as I suspect you mean it, but I'm sure I'd find some teaching methods and curricula I'd change significantly. Primarily to focus far more on personalized education rather than bulk batch training.
But that's a different conversation, specific to education, far more involved than this discussion.
But geneva is right that we also don't have enough younger workers and household replacement to address an otherwise aging population's retirement.
Who says that immigrants are "cheap labor"? Sure, some will be on the first rungs of the economic scale, but immigrants and their progeny also drive a disproportionate share of technology innovation as well as new business formation.
I'm not saying we need more workers to exploit with low wages (we should have a living wage as minimum wage)...but we sure as heck need more workers and that's only going to be exacerbated with the retirement of the baby boom and our longer life expectancy. We aren't going to see more children born earlier in younger families as long as we're unwilling to provide expansive family leave, so that means we should expect a continued trend of fewer children and born later.
That's the challenge...as well as developing every bit of human capital capacity as we can in families already here.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:27 pm
by dislaxxic
get it to x wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:14 pm
dislaxxic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:08 pm
NO ONE is "picking a fight" x...we are seeing massive military buildup on Russia's border with Ukraine. President Biden is telling Putin NOT to start a fight with Ukraine...but, is that all that hard to discern??
..
You mean the same President "Tough Guy" that was against the Bin Laden raid? For all we know this is just a test of Biden's spine.
yeah, didn't think you'd get it...he's trying to STOP a fight...and you can call all the names you want. he is
leading on the issue, and is being largely effective at it...
..
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:35 pm
by MDlaxfan76
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:21 pm
get it to x wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
Please remind me again why we are picking a fight with Russia. What is our national interest? Please stop picking the Russia scab and pay attention to our real rival, the PRC.
I agree completely with the Russia part in terms of picking a fight. Stop importing Russian goods for the cybernonsense, and tell Putin to get bent until he stops with that stuff. Ignore him and his piddly GDP, and focus on more important subjects.
As for China.....Trump's trade war INCREASED imports from China. So that was a failure. And we have about 300,000 Chinese Students in Universities here, so that's quite a brain drain that we're educating them instead of our own citizens.
What do you propose we do.
Not so sure I'd call it a brain drain when American universities educate at full pay Chinese college students.
Pretty sure the universities don't think so...
https://fortune.com/2021/08/16/us-unive ... ina-covid/
Some of those students stay in the US, many do business or science in collaboration with Americans.
I also disagree that dealing with Putin is as simple as ignoring him and refusing to buy from Russia (certainly the Europeans won't fully go along with the latter). And it sure seems like Putin is the one "picking a fight" with the west, not the other way around.
This seems like a walk and chew gum exercise. Dealing with Russia needn't mean we're not prioritizing China. Indeed, it doesn't hurt our posture with China's leadership to be clear that there are significant costs to aggression to countries and people self-determining their futures, even if it doesn't mean outright warfare.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:40 pm
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:34 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:57 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:01 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:42 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:17 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:10 pm
Care to expand/explain?
Sure- just reporting more Biden news and happenings.
He’s handling things.
This week he’s gonna uncluster Trump’s Russia stance, and give Putin a stern talking to, via Zoom.
What do you think he should be doing with Putin? Or is this more of your vacuous "Biden Bad," without even bothering with a critique?
The critique is simple. It's the approach. We all know Putin's ego. It's just like business. If he's truly serious with Biden and cares about improving things with Russia especially over Ukraine, he should have done a face to face. That's when real deals get done and real compromise happens with people like Vlad. If you're closing on any important business deal, you show your real face. Covid or not. Busy schedule or not. The level of respect shown and earnestness shown in a f2f is real and something you don't get with video meetings. That tells me there won't be much change unless these meetings are just the start of a bigger plan and just part of something much more frequent.
The AP story laid it out well. Putin wants NATO gone. And the diplomatic sanctions including the ones outlined above, won't prevent anything and will just be reactionary. Biden needs to be the good cop re: NATO, build a relationship, and cross his fingers diplomacy works.
As an aside, let's hope Biden's evacuation plan for US citizens in Ukraine is better than the last ordeal.
I think a face to face would have been a mistake.
There should be zero reward for Putin's aggressive actions and demands.
Zero. Zippo.
And that's the point.
Putin has been clearly told (hopefully) that the US and the allies Biden engaged before and after the call, agree to drive consequences of further threatening/invading Ukraine will be much more than 2014.
This is not a moment for "compromise" or "deal" with Putin.
Note, it's extremely unlikely we're going to go to war for Ukraine, they're not part of NATO, and Putin knows that, so he's probing to see how far he can go in expanding Russia's hegemony before we will actually do anything. If mere saber rattling is rewarded, there's gonna be much more to come.
I slightly disagree. I think you play good cop and absolutely try to negotiate with Russia.
A face to face isn't necessarily a reward. It means business. Putin isn't Kim Jong-un who needs validation. But you do need to negotiate and come to the table in good faith. That may have started 6 mos ago. But build on it with something real. Especially when you have something pressing like Ukraine and Nord2 hanging out there. Putin knows that the US's threat against Nord2 isn't real or serious. Biden showed that last time by going against both party's recommendations. Now that Biden has shown he wants to appease, go further- help expedite Nord 2 as a reward for de-escalating. Then gain favor of Germany and the EU by lessening the gas crunch.
There is plenty to discuss with Russia if you want to get down to it. How about talking Russia's buildup near Ukraine, Lithuania and others. They don't want NATO nearby? Stop the border buildups themselves. How about their strategic nuclear buildup and locations? We were supposed to talk more about that after we started 6 mos ago.
Let's talk cyber terrorism too.
Want to further growth? How about setting general ground rules and starting over on Embassies?
Nope, all that can be discussed at the diplomatic level...there's no need for Biden to "play good cop" with Putin. The data is all in on Putin and his kleptocracy and there are no deals to be made requiring any stroking of Putin's ego, any show of "respect".
Basically, there should be no 'give' from the US until Putin backs the F off in each of the areas in which he has been an aggressor.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:51 pm
by a fan
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:35 pm
Not so sure I'd call it a brain drain when American universities educate at full pay Chinese college students.
300,000 is awful lot of spots that could be spent on Americans. I'm not saying we need to be xenophobic...but that's a huge number of spots to give away to other countries. Seems high to me.
Yeah, they're bummed that they're not there pushing up the insane tuition dollars they're charging. Cry me a river.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:35 pm
I also disagree that dealing with Putin is as simple as ignoring him and refusing to buy from Russia (certainly the Europeans won't fully go along with the latter).
Exactly. So if the EU doesn't give a flip...why should we? Get it to X is right.
How the F is Ukraine in our interest? It's not. And in case you were unaware, Ukraine has been a financial mess for years now. If Putin wants that mess to be HIS mess? By all means, tough guy. And you can "take back" Afghanistan while you're at it.....
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:53 pm
by kramerica.inc
There has been talk for years that Putin isn't healthy. Whispers of cancer and Parkinson's, among a million other things.
One of the analysts I heard stated that due to Ukraine's positive history as part of Russia, reuniting Ukraine to Mother Russia is a main priority as part of Putin's legacy. It's an emotional and personal thing to him.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:59 pm
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:53 pm
There has been talk for years that Putin isn't healthy. Whispers of cancer and Parkinson's, among a million other things.
One of the analysts I heard stated that due to Ukraine's positive history as part of Russia, reuniting Ukraine to Mother Russia is a main priority as part of Putin's legacy. It's an emotional and personal thing to him.
Tough ti-ties.
The part of Ukraine not yet taken is adamantly opposed to reintegration and they're now far better armed and trained than back in 2014. Not that the Russians can't roll over them, but it'd be quite bloody.
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:10 pm
by kramerica.inc
Interesting read on the battle ahead for Biden's climate plan:
The Achilles’ Heel of Biden’s Climate Plan? Coal Miners.
Unions representing other workers affected by climate legislation have struck deals, but opposition from coal miners has persisted, complicating the path to enactment.
For years, environmentalists have sought compromises with labor unions in industries reliant on fossil fuels, aware that one of the biggest obstacles to cutting carbon emissions is opposition from the unions’ members.
States like Washington, New York and Illinois have enacted renewable-energy laws that were backed by unions representing workers who build and maintain traditional power plants. And unions for electricians and steelworkers are rallying behind President Biden’s climate and social policy legislation, now in the Senate’s hands.
But at least one group of workers appears far less enthusiastic about the deal-making: coal workers, who continue to regard clean-energy jobs as a major risk to their standard of living.
“It’s definitely going to pay less, not have our insurance,” Gary Campbell, a heavy-equipment operator at a coal mine in West Virginia, said of wind and solar jobs. “We see windmills around us everywhere. They’re up, then everybody disappears. It’s not consistent.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/busi ... imate.html
Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:11 pm
by MDlaxfan76
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:51 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:35 pm
Not so sure I'd call it a brain drain when American universities educate at full pay Chinese college students.
300,000 is awful lot of spots that could be spent on Americans. I'm not saying we need to be xenophobic...but that's a huge number of spots to give away to other countries. Seems high to me.
Maybe you could explain "give away to other countries" when these are full pay students who need to be far higher achieving than do US students to gain admission? And certainly at most of our top universities, they also need to speak and write English at a strong level as well, so are active participants with their peers in class, on research etc. Are there more such full pay students available in the US? Seems to me they subsidize the cost of educating American students.
I know you're not xenophobic, wasn't saying you are...just don't understand the "give away" aspect.
Yeah, they're bummed that they're not there pushing up the insane tuition dollars they're charging. Cry me a river.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:35 pm
I also disagree that dealing with Putin is as simple as ignoring him and refusing to buy from Russia (certainly the Europeans won't fully go along with the latter).
Exactly. So if the EU doesn't give a flip...why should we? Get it to X is right.
How the F is Ukraine in our interest? It's not. And in case you were unaware, Ukraine has been a financial mess for years now. If Putin wants that mess to be HIS mess? By all means, tough guy. And you can "take back" Afghanistan while you're at it.....
hmmm, yes, Ukraine is definitely in our national interest as a functioning democracy. That's different than 'vital interest' which would necessitate actual war to defend. And yes, Ukraine has had some poor leadership, lots of corruption, but reformation is the current status...which is exactly why Putin is being so aggressive, the Putin driven corruption is getting stifled. Gotta remember that Putin's Russia is a kleptocracy, so Ukraine's assets are what Putin wants to exploit, not some "Russian nationality" interest.
So, we're not going to bomb Russia to defend Ukraine...but we can hurt them where they actually care, their bank accounts.
