NESCAC

[DoubleD]

If you took the entire NJIT roster and slipped them into Bates uniforms, what’s their NESCAC record?

I'll say 3-7 with wins over Trinity, Colby, and Wesleyan

See, I feel confident that Tufts would beat them, consistently. After that I don’t feel confident. I could see them hanging in that Midd, Bowdoin, Williams, and perhaps even Amherst group. NESCAC conference games seem like so many rivalry matches across sports, where unless there’s a severe mismatch, it’s going to be a tight hard fought game, regardless of the numbers next to the names. That’s what I think has so many people seemingly delusional about the depth of strength within the conference. Bowdoin can play NESCAC team _____ close, but there is a general lack of other comparables throughout the year (I know, I know- distance, but that explains the reason, it doesn’t discredit the hypothesis).

Amherst, Union, and Middlebury can compete with anyone in D3. Bowdoin is hit or miss.

As for the NJIT team. Just looking at the rosters and where the kids grew up playing and accolades. I am going to say NJIT would fall somewhere in the middle of the NESCAC.

Compare the roster to top level D3 programs and you will find those programs are loaded with first team all state or all metro. Lower level D1 teams tend to get All league or county. Yes. Some all metro kids do go low level D1. Was just saying in general

Stevens beats NESCAC schools...Stevens. NJIT would beat Stevens by 15, it's a different level. If NESCAC is so loaded, why aren't these kids playing for an Ivy league? Same pool of kids, right? If NJIT and Tufts played 10 times, Tufts wins 3. NJIT would wear them out. So would Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Binghamton, Marist.

Do you watch lacrosse? Serious question.

1. I am not sure why you use Stevens as an example, they have been mediocre since 2018. The only NESCAC they have beaten since then was Wesleyan last year, who has been struggling.

2. Stony Brook and Hofstra are not bottom of the barrel d1's by any means. NJIT DIDN'T WIN A GAME IN 2022. They have 6 wins since 2019 and two are against Hampton and Lindenwood!! They are not good..... Neither is Monmouth, their best win in the last five years in Quinnipiac.

3. I am sure a majority of these players applied and visited / met with IVY coaches and had their reasons for either going IVY or NESCAC. Most likely if they had the grades to play at an IVY, why not go the NESCAC route which is on par academically if the ivy didn't work out. Also, I am sure there are IVY coaches who passed on the likes of Boyden, Bredahl, Jacoby, Upgren, Bruun, Stump, Hawthorne, Dan Murphy, Byrne, Mullane etc and definitely would have loved to have those players on there teams.

Ok yea very true. Idk if u can say they had there reasons for going choosing NESCAC over Ivy. I believe u guys that the conference has a lot of talent but you can't compare it to the Ivy League. Dartmouth ok would be good games but Cornell, Princeton and Harvard there is no way Union and these teams are competing with those teams. No way are kids choosing D3 over playing at an IVY. That's pushing it to much. I believe they can beat low level D1 but most Ivys are high level.

[DoubleD]

If you took the entire NJIT roster and slipped them into Bates uniforms, what’s their NESCAC record?

I'll say 3-7 with wins over Trinity, Colby, and Wesleyan

How about say a Hofstra, Drexel Stonybrook? Stonybrook has a lot of talent. Dylan Palenetti is one of the best players in all of D1. Blake Behlen transferred from LIU and starts at attack with him. Noa Armitage was drafted in the NLL 1st rd I believe. Stonybrook lost by 2 goals in a highly competitive conference championship game with Deleware which is a top 20 program and played Duke to a close battle in NCAA tournament. Again im just curious so I can get more of an idea of the talent level on the NESCAC. I'm definitely gonna catch some games this. I'm a fan of all 3 divisions.

Stonybrook and Hofstra are well-respected and talented D1 teams. They are not on the same level of NJIT, Monmouth, Wagner etc.

Ok yeah just wanted to get an idea as those programs are the next level up. I'm gonna catch more D3 games this coming season. I watched that Lynchburg documentary on YouTube and was very impressed. It followed them last season and they actually battled Salsiberry to a tough close game. They have a lot of talent I was impressed.

[pcowlax]

Certainly agree with that. Tufts has beaten Dartmouth recently in scrimmages (I know, I know) and played Harvard even in at least one scrimmage but all of the top Ivys would cream any D3 team. When someone says kids chose NESCAC for academics in this discussion, it is referencing why they are going there to play D3 instead of at one of the lower tier D1s, which, to generalize, are not a bunch of great schools. Whether or not a kid would ever choose Middlebury over Yale has nothing to do as to whether they would chose Middlebury over Wagner. Completely agree that virtually no one is choosing to play D3 when they get serious interest from top IVYs, UVA, Duke, etc. I say virtually because there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

[laxdad1434]

… This idea has nothing at all to do specifically to NESCAC teams, has nothing to do with how midlevel D3 teams would do vs D1 and nothing at all with how top D3 teams or their players would do against or at top D1 schools. That probably won't stop those strawmen from being ambushed though.

You bristling at the very notion of a simple comparison is very much NESCAC specific. The beginning (I think 10+ pages ago) was “how many Duke players Bates needed to win the NESCAC.” The fanboy knee jerk reaction that was something to the effect of “virtually the entire Duke starting lineup” generated this. We could have this conversation with other top D3 teams and conferences, but right now we’re not. Right now we’re on a NESCAC thread talking about comparing the NESCAC to NJIT.

Actually the specific discussion that split off of the duke question was about top D3 vs low D1 and laxdad had the extremely uninformed take that not only would those D1 teams win those games but gave as his reasoning that that is how those games would go in college football and basketball and how was lacrosse any different? . Many have repeatedly discussed why D3 wins those games and his responses perseverate on NESCAC. RIT would thrash NJIT just as well as Tufts would. Don't recall anyone saying Bates would need the whole starting lineup of Duke to win the NESCAC but many people did say that they would indeed need more than 2 or 3 people, regardless of who they were.

I never said the starting lineup...I believe I said, 2 mids, 2 poles, 2 attack and any goalie. Thinking about it, they would need an additional 2 d-mids. They don't need #34 to win the NESCAC. I've been thru the recruiting process for both sports, for all 3 divisions, have you? It's pretty much the same for both sports. of course D1,2 offer $ depending on the kid. As for basketball, it's the same process, but tougher due the limited roster size. All recruiting is based on skills, strength, size, speed, and grades, that's why they ask for measurables on every recruiting form.

[RE6ULATOR]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

[DoubleD]

Certainly agree with that. Tufts has beaten Dartmouth recently in scrimmages (I know, I know) and played Harvard even in at least one scrimmage but all of the top Ivys would cream any D3 team. When someone says kids chose NESCAC for academics in this discussion, it is referencing why they are going there to play D3 instead of at one of the lower tier D1s, which, to generalize, are not a bunch of great schools. Whether or not a kid would ever choose Middlebury over Yale has nothing to do as to whether they would chose Middlebury over Wagner. Completely agree that virtually no one is choosing to play D3 when they get serious interest from top IVYs, UVA, Duke, etc. I say virtually because there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

Very true. Scrimmages are tough to go by as teams play different mixes of players I mean Syracuse beat Michigan in a preseason scrimmage yet look how well Michigan did last yr. If the game counted it would have been a lot different. The good thing is Lacrosse is growing and there is tons of talent on all 3 levels of college lacrosse. I'm glad to see D 3 players getting a chance to play at the pro level and I think after what Cross Ferrara did this past summer it's gonna open up more doors. Jack Boyden will definitely be playing on a PLL team. There is talent all over now with so many more kids playing. Hopefully Paul Rabil keeps building the PLL so it really grows and becomes a much higher paying sport that kids can use there talent to make money playing the game they love. Lacrosse in the Olympics is a big step. Thanks for all the info you guys gave me. I'm excited for the season to start we're getting close.

[DoubleD]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

Sure their is kids who were studs in HS that don't want the commitment that playing at the college level takes so they play in the MCLA. I watched a few games and saw some talented kids who no doubt could play high level college. I get it especially that there isn't an opportunity to make good money after college in lacrosse. So go have fun at college and still get to play lax but not like it's a job. Hopefully like I said In the future the opportunity to make good money in Lacrosse will change that and kids will be willing to put in the work as the reward will be worth it if they make it pro.

[shorelax12]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

[laxdad1434]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

[MVPiccoli]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

I'd throw burnout onto that short list of reasons. So many kids in this hyper-focused, specialized age of youth sports hit a wall man. See it all the time. The lack of athletic diversity starting at age 6-7 that I've seen in my own backyard just breeds it. So many for profit organizations out there that have zero interest in slowing the train down. Deserves it's own thread, but man, it's bananas.

[Jumbo]

If you took the entire NJIT roster and slipped them into Bates uniforms, what’s their NESCAC record?

I'll say 3-7 with wins over Trinity, Colby, and Wesleyan

See, I feel confident that Tufts would beat them, consistently. After that I don’t feel confident. I could see them hanging in that Midd, Bowdoin, Williams, and perhaps even Amherst group. NESCAC conference games seem like so many rivalry matches across sports, where unless there’s a severe mismatch, it’s going to be a tight hard fought game, regardless of the numbers next to the names. That’s what I think has so many people seemingly delusional about the depth of strength within the conference. Bowdoin can play NESCAC team _____ close, but there is a general lack of other comparables throughout the year (I know, I know- distance, but that explains the reason, it doesn’t discredit the hypothesis).

Amherst, Union, and Middlebury can compete with anyone in D3. Bowdoin is hit or miss.

As for the NJIT team. Just looking at the rosters and where the kids grew up playing and accolades. I am going to say NJIT would fall somewhere in the middle of the NESCAC.

Compare the roster to top level D3 programs and you will find those programs are loaded with first team all state or all metro. Lower level D1 teams tend to get All league or county. Yes. Some all metro kids do go low level D1. Was just saying in general

Stevens beats NESCAC schools...Stevens. NJIT would beat Stevens by 15, it's a different level. If NESCAC is so loaded, why aren't these kids playing for an Ivy league? Same pool of kids, right? If NJIT and Tufts played 10 times, Tufts wins 3. NJIT would wear them out. So would Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Binghamton, Marist.

He does make a good point if kids choose NESCAC due to academics then why not play at an Ivy League school? You can't say a kid rather play at Union then at Cornell or Princeton. I'm curious to see how Jake Titus does at Syracuse thsi yr. He was the top SSDM in D3. Will he be a top shorty in the ACC? That's a big jump up on competition. My nephew played SSDM at Cuse. He could be covering Jack Boyden at UVA now instead of a teams weakest middie. All I read about him is he's very talented. That will say a lot about the level of NESCAC is he struggles. Playing offense can translate much easier to a higher level then defense. Guys in the ACC are bigger faster and more athletic. I'm rooting for him tho especially in an SU fan. Lol

Ivy canceled multiple seasons
Ivy doesn’t give scholarships
Maybe closer to home
Maybe a better feel for the school/campus/coach

There could be numerous reasons why someone picks a high level D3 or a mid level D1 or IVY school.

[laxdad1434]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

I'd throw burnout onto that short list of reasons. So many kids in this hyper-focused, specialized age of youth sports hit a wall man. See it all the time. The lack of athletic diversity starting at age 6-7 that I've seen in my own backyard just breeds it. So many for profit organizations out there that have zero interest in slowing the train down. Deserves it's own thread, but man, it's bananas.

I live in an area where the 3 sport HS athlete is making a comeback. Most of the club coaches preach multi-sport, as do the HS coaches. The sport itself is growing at a breakneck pace, over 220 HS programs in our state, double of what we had 20 yrs ago. I don't see kids quitting, if anything I see more participation from the kids that were marginal players via D2, D3, and the MCLA club leagues. I know kids playing Tenn, FSU, SC, GT, Col, the D2 Fla circuit is pretty good as well. The NESCAC or bust thing is a non-factor in my opinion. If kids want to play, and they're good enough, they'll find a school.

[Lahdeelax]

Dowd is no longer at Colby. (Is this old news?)

I heard a rumor that he got a great position, but I can only confirm the departure.

[choochooCharlie]

Dowd is no longer at Colby. (Is this old news?)

I heard a rumor that he got a great position, but I can only confirm the departure.

Is he at NJIT?

[laxdad1434]

Dowd is no longer at Colby. (Is this old news?)

I heard a rumor that he got a great position, but I can only confirm the departure.

Is he at NJIT?

[Flag Down]

Dowd to Princeton on his LinkedIn.

[Laxforeveryone]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

I'd throw burnout onto that short list of reasons. So many kids in this hyper-focused, specialized age of youth sports hit a wall man. See it all the time. The lack of athletic diversity starting at age 6-7 that I've seen in my own backyard just breeds it. So many for profit organizations out there that have zero interest in slowing the train down. Deserves it's own thread, but man, it's bananas.

I live in an area where the 3 sport HS athlete is making a comeback. Most of the club coaches preach multi-sport, as do the HS coaches. The sport itself is growing at a breakneck pace, over 220 HS programs in our state, double of what we had 20 yrs ago. I don't see kids quitting, if anything I see more participation from the kids that were marginal players via D2, D3, and the MCLA club leagues. I know kids playing Tenn, FSU, SC, GT, Col, the D2 Fla circuit is pretty good as well. The NESCAC or bust thing is a non-factor in my opinion. If kids want to play, and they're good enough, they'll find a school.

I am surprised no one has mentioned cost. Don’t players need to consider affordability in making their college selection? There are real differences in merit aid that schools even within the same conference provide. I would never encourage a player to accrue debt just to play at one school versus another. In addition, the majority of players on D1 rosters are not receiving lax money. Finally, with the growth of the game and clubs there are a tremendous number of high level players being produced. More than enough to populate all Divisions. In comparison, there are over 120 more women’s college teams than men’s.

[NNELax]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

I'd throw burnout onto that short list of reasons. So many kids in this hyper-focused, specialized age of youth sports hit a wall man. See it all the time. The lack of athletic diversity starting at age 6-7 that I've seen in my own backyard just breeds it. So many for profit organizations out there that have zero interest in slowing the train down. Deserves it's own thread, but man, it's bananas.

I live in an area where the 3 sport HS athlete is making a comeback. Most of the club coaches preach multi-sport, as do the HS coaches. The sport itself is growing at a breakneck pace, over 220 HS programs in our state, double of what we had 20 yrs ago. I don't see kids quitting, if anything I see more participation from the kids that were marginal players via D2, D3, and the MCLA club leagues. I know kids playing Tenn, FSU, SC, GT, Col, the D2 Fla circuit is pretty good as well. The NESCAC or bust thing is a non-factor in my opinion. If kids want to play, and they're good enough, they'll find a school.

Club coaches say they like multi-sport athletes until it hits their bottomline....

[RE6ULATOR]

Dowd is no longer at Colby. (Is this old news?)

I heard a rumor that he got a great position, but I can only confirm the departure.

Is he at NJIT?

ROTFL

[laxdad1434]

… there are some kids who would and do go the D3 route there because of the opportunity to have more of a regular college life when not having the all consuming time commitments involved at such schools.

This may historically be true, but I have to believe that with the commitment required in HS/club to be at a level to be sought by high level DI lacrosse teams nowadays, one has to be driven and committed beyond belief (throw in the individual drive to have IVY acceptance caliber grades). So much so in fact that I would bet there are more high level HS lacrosse players who chose to not play in college at all (due to not wanting the commitment / burnt out / whatever) than there are that chose D3 over a legitimate top tier DI. Just my 2 cents.

I would say, historically, if a kid is not getting looks from the likes of a top DI or an Ivy, the first word coming out every parents mouth on the sidelines is NESCAC, it is just the natural progression in the lacrosse world, so a lot of those kids are pretty driven and committed, but obviously with the same academic hurdles as the Ivy league. However, you are probably right that, outside of the NESCAC or some of the other top 20 D3 schools making offers, a lot of high level kids just chose not to play, whether due to the fact that they do not want the commitment, or perhaps because they are embarrassed that they put in all of the time and energy playing club and things did not work out.

I'd throw burnout onto that short list of reasons. So many kids in this hyper-focused, specialized age of youth sports hit a wall man. See it all the time. The lack of athletic diversity starting at age 6-7 that I've seen in my own backyard just breeds it. So many for profit organizations out there that have zero interest in slowing the train down. Deserves it's own thread, but man, it's bananas.

I live in an area where the 3 sport HS athlete is making a comeback. Most of the club coaches preach multi-sport, as do the HS coaches. The sport itself is growing at a breakneck pace, over 220 HS programs in our state, double of what we had 20 yrs ago. I don't see kids quitting, if anything I see more participation from the kids that were marginal players via D2, D3, and the MCLA club leagues. I know kids playing Tenn, FSU, SC, GT, Col, the D2 Fla circuit is pretty good as well. The NESCAC or bust thing is a non-factor in my opinion. If kids want to play, and they're good enough, they'll find a school.

Club coaches say they like multi-sport athletes until it hits their bottomline....

Then you need to find another club.