House v NCAA

[wgdsr]

https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234796270/
wilken sending them back to the drawing board, nonplussed on nil restriction language or implementation. as well as other filing shortcomings including future athletes.

love the nc$$ attorney saying basically "we're not sure we have a deal then, this is what we're willing to do and it all needs to be in there". they've literally lost every case for almost 10 years, is facing a judge who has presided over some of them, and face by some estimates a $20 billion liability. they still think they have hand.

The mindset folks have surrounding this stuff is SO weird. Reading the comments from Americans where they think it makes sense to cap players ability to earn......but NOT coaches, trainers, admin. Oh they can avail themselves of the free market. Wait...what?

Show of hands: who here in America wants a third party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn? None of you, right? Well, then why would anyone ever advocate doing that to a fellow American?

I don't understand how folks don't get that's what the NCAA is trying to do.....stifle earnings, and they're doing it without talking with players.

This ain't the Soviet Union, comrade NCAA.

Two things
1) Anyone that joins a union is letting a "3rd party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn." I also understand that where this is eventually going. The involvement of any union is going to be wild given the vast differences between schools, conferences, sports, etc. If I was on a pro-union athlete, I'd want nothing to do with the legacy unions out there given their level of corruption and bloat and look toward the NFLPA, MLBPA, or the like for support.

2) Is it really earnings? I'd call what is going on more like bribes. Earnings you get compensated based on your performance or work. Most of these NIL deals are inducements to attend a college (note, I don't blame any player from working this angle to get as much as he/she can). The guys driving the bus on this (football and men's basketball players) already get full "compensation" in the form of free education, room, board and other support - obviously other sports aren't all full scholarships (and those are the ones that are going to get whacked in any deal). The rest should certainly be on the table but said "rest" should be for actual work - i.e., going to signings, IG earnings, performance on the field, etc. It shouldn't just be for showing up to school X.

1) we'll disagree. the representation has the backing of more than just a couple people that can hire an attorney. the attorneys in this deal is set to make > than $500 million from the settlement dollars, fwiw.
so it's union and cba or no collusion/monopoly/cartel setting rules on comp and everybody fends for themselves. same as the job market.
2) nil is the only thing allowed thus far, only because of collusion/monopoly/cartel of the nc$$. alston could only rule on nil, as that was what the actual suit was for. but the justices weighed in anyway on the rest, and told the nc$$ that what they've been doing regarding it all was illegal, and to get going on collective bargaining.

anyone that has a bug up because the nc$$ went back after all that and did nothing with athletes other than fight more court cases, and narrowly define nil to their own standard is in get off my lawn stage. imo

[a fan]

https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234796270/
wilken sending them back to the drawing board, nonplussed on nil restriction language or implementation. as well as other filing shortcomings including future athletes.

love the nc$$ attorney saying basically "we're not sure we have a deal then, this is what we're willing to do and it all needs to be in there". they've literally lost every case for almost 10 years, is facing a judge who has presided over some of them, and face by some estimates a $20 billion liability. they still think they have hand.

The mindset folks have surrounding this stuff is SO weird. Reading the comments from Americans where they think it makes sense to cap players ability to earn......but NOT coaches, trainers, admin. Oh they can avail themselves of the free market. Wait...what?

Show of hands: who here in America wants a third party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn? None of you, right? Well, then why would anyone ever advocate doing that to a fellow American?

I don't understand how folks don't get that's what the NCAA is trying to do.....stifle earnings, and they're doing it without talking with players.

This ain't the Soviet Union, comrade NCAA.

Two things
1) Anyone that joins a union is letting a "3rd party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn." I also understand that where this is eventually going. The involvement of any union is going to be wild given the vast differences between schools, conferences, sports, etc. If I was on a pro-union athlete, I'd want nothing to do with the legacy unions out there given their level of corruption and bloat and look toward the NFLPA, MLBPA, or the like for support.

Agree completely.

2) Is it really earnings? I'd call what is going on more like bribes. Earnings you get compensated based on your performance or work. -

Right. But you're asking to impose your opinion as to what is "compensation" on a free market. The free market decides what these kids are worth, and for what. Doesn't matter if they're getting paid to come to a school.....and how is this different from the current system of offering a kid a full ride? That's offering (bribing, to use your words) a player several hundred K in many cases to induce a kid to enroll.

.....obviously other sports aren't all full scholarships (and those are the ones that are going to get whacked in any deal). The rest should certainly be on the table but said "rest" should be for actual work - i.e., going to signings, IG earnings, performance on the field, etc. It shouldn't just be for showing up to school X.

So your answer to my question: do you think a third party should be able to decide where and for what wage Steel Hop gets a job.....you're telling me the answer is "yes"? Do I understand you correctly?

[ggait]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

[a fan]

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in.

Comical.

Before the decision, NCAA's genius lawyer: "“We’re very positive she’s going to overrule these objections,” Berman told Yahoo Sports in a recent interview. “The judge is not going to accept the idea that almost $3 billion in past damages and $22 billion going forward is not a huge recovery. That objection is not going to fly.”


An American lawyer who doesn't know what a free market is, or how they work...or more likely, is pretending that he doesn't.



https://sports.yahoo.com/national-colle ... 59024.html

[Asgot]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

Why not simply allow HS Football and basketball players to enter their respective pro leagues? it is done in Soccer, Hockey and Baseball. It is the professional league that are inhibiting these player earnings,

[a fan]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

Why not simply allow HS Football and basketball players to enter their respective pro leagues? it is done in Soccer, Hockey and Baseball. It is the professional league that are inhibiting these player earnings,

No, it's the NCAA that's doing trying to inhibit earning, and for transparently selfish reasons. The free market wants to pay these kids for their work. Why are we trying to intervene?

Why isn't anyone, instead, talking about capping coaches salaries? How about if the coaches want to make more than a tenured professor.....why don't they, as you say, "enter their respective pro leagues"?

Does anyone here have a salary cap on what they can earn? Haven't had anyone say yes yet. Why?


Here is the full list of the top 25 college football head coach salaries. The list was compiled with data from USA Today, Yahoo Sports, and The Athletic. Obscene...any notion that this is anything resemembling amateurism is laughable.

Rank Coach College Total Compensation
1 Kirby Smart Georgia $13 million
2 Dabo Swinney Clemson $11.5 million
3 Lincoln Riley USC $11 million
4 Steve Sarkisian Texas $10.3 million
5 Kalen DeBoer Alabama $10 million
6 Mike Norvell Florida State $9.8 million
T-7 Brian Kelly LSU $9.5 million
T-7 Ryan Day Ohio State $9.5 million
T-9 Lane Kiffin Ole Miss $9 million
T-9 Josh Heupel Tennessee $9 million
T-9 Mark Stoops Kentucky $9 million
12 James Franklin Penn State $8.5 million
13 Brent Venables Oklahoma $8.2 million
14 Mario Cristobal Miami $8 million
15 Mike Gundy Oklahoma State $7.75 million
16 Luke Fickell Wisconsin $7.6 million
17 Billy Napier Florida $7.3 million
T-18 Kirk Ferentz Iowa $7 million
T-18 Dan Lanning Oregon $7 million
20 Matt Rhule Nebraska $6.78 million
21 Hugh Freeze Auburn $6.73 million
22 Kyle Whittingham Utah $6.5 million
23 Sam Pittman Arkansas $6.46 million
24 Shane Beamer South Carolina $6.4 million
25 Bret Bielema Illinois $6.2 million

[wgdsr]

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in.

Comical.

Before the decision, NCAA's genius lawyer: "“We’re very positive she’s going to overrule these objections,” Berman told Yahoo Sports in a recent interview. “The judge is not going to accept the idea that almost $3 billion in past damages and $22 billion going forward is not a huge recovery. That objection is not going to fly.”


An American lawyer who doesn't know what a free market is, or how they work...or more likely, is pretending that he doesn't.

https://sports.yahoo.com/national-colle ... 59024.html

i love these guys. it's comedy gold.

what i wonder is if they're the same guys that have been telling their client for years, "yeah, we're good here." or is it new guys, saying the same thing as they haven't gotten their a** whipped and the meter is running, anyway?
ironically, i'd strawman bet after alston they could've found the way to sit down and bang this out, and do it @ 20-25%. some medical thrown in, some deferred comp. get player movement curtailed back as a concession, maintain 5 to play 4. write all kinds of rules that wouldn't get challenged at every turn. but no. they're tackling lawsuits and going kicking and screaming. and lawyers everywhere are happy.

[pcowlax]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

Why not simply allow HS Football and basketball players to enter their respective pro leagues? it is done in Soccer, Hockey and Baseball. It is the professional league that are inhibiting these player earnings,

No, it's the NCAA that's doing trying to inhibit earning, and for transparently selfish reasons. The free market wants to pay these kids for their work. Why are we trying to intervene?

Why isn't anyone, instead, talking about capping coaches salaries? How about if the coaches want to make more than a tenured professor.....why don't they, as you say, "enter their respective pro leagues"?

Does anyone here have a salary cap on what they can earn? Haven't had anyone say yes yet. Why?


Here is the full list of the top 25 college football head coach salaries. The list was compiled with data from USA Today, Yahoo Sports, and The Athletic. Obscene...any notion that this is anything resemembling amateurism is laughable.

Rank Coach College Total Compensation
1 Kirby Smart Georgia $13 million
2 Dabo Swinney Clemson $11.5 million
3 Lincoln Riley USC $11 million
4 Steve Sarkisian Texas $10.3 million
5 Kalen DeBoer Alabama $10 million
6 Mike Norvell Florida State $9.8 million
T-7 Brian Kelly LSU $9.5 million
T-7 Ryan Day Ohio State $9.5 million
T-9 Lane Kiffin Ole Miss $9 million
T-9 Josh Heupel Tennessee $9 million
T-9 Mark Stoops Kentucky $9 million
12 James Franklin Penn State $8.5 million
13 Brent Venables Oklahoma $8.2 million
14 Mario Cristobal Miami $8 million
15 Mike Gundy Oklahoma State $7.75 million
16 Luke Fickell Wisconsin $7.6 million
17 Billy Napier Florida $7.3 million
T-18 Kirk Ferentz Iowa $7 million
T-18 Dan Lanning Oregon $7 million
20 Matt Rhule Nebraska $6.78 million
21 Hugh Freeze Auburn $6.73 million
22 Kyle Whittingham Utah $6.5 million
23 Sam Pittman Arkansas $6.46 million
24 Shane Beamer South Carolina $6.4 million
25 Bret Bielema Illinois $6.2 million

Not commenting on the coaches salaries but in terms of not letting kids go from HS to pro in hoops and football, that is not NCAA. Those are and always have been rules imposed by the pro leagues.

[Asgot]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

Why not simply allow HS Football and basketball players to enter their respective pro leagues? it is done in Soccer, Hockey and Baseball. It is the professional league that are inhibiting these player earnings,

No, it's the NCAA that's doing trying to inhibit earning, and for transparently selfish reasons. The free market wants to pay these kids for their work. Why are we trying to intervene?

Why isn't anyone, instead, talking about capping coaches salaries? How about if the coaches want to make more than a tenured professor.....why don't they, as you say, "enter their respective pro leagues"?

Does anyone here have a salary cap on what they can earn? Haven't had anyone say yes yet. Why?


Here is the full list of the top 25 college football head coach salaries. The list was compiled with data from USA Today, Yahoo Sports, and The Athletic. Obscene...any notion that this is anything resemembling amateurism is laughable.

Rank Coach College Total Compensation
1 Kirby Smart Georgia $13 million
2 Dabo Swinney Clemson $11.5 million
3 Lincoln Riley USC $11 million
4 Steve Sarkisian Texas $10.3 million
5 Kalen DeBoer Alabama $10 million
6 Mike Norvell Florida State $9.8 million
T-7 Brian Kelly LSU $9.5 million
T-7 Ryan Day Ohio State $9.5 million
T-9 Lane Kiffin Ole Miss $9 million
T-9 Josh Heupel Tennessee $9 million
T-9 Mark Stoops Kentucky $9 million
12 James Franklin Penn State $8.5 million
13 Brent Venables Oklahoma $8.2 million
14 Mario Cristobal Miami $8 million
15 Mike Gundy Oklahoma State $7.75 million
16 Luke Fickell Wisconsin $7.6 million
17 Billy Napier Florida $7.3 million
T-18 Kirk Ferentz Iowa $7 million
T-18 Dan Lanning Oregon $7 million
20 Matt Rhule Nebraska $6.78 million
21 Hugh Freeze Auburn $6.73 million
22 Kyle Whittingham Utah $6.5 million
23 Sam Pittman Arkansas $6.46 million
24 Shane Beamer South Carolina $6.4 million
25 Bret Bielema Illinois $6.2 million

Not commenting on the coaches salaries but in terms of not letting kids go from HS to pro in hoops and football, that is not NCAA. Those are and always have been rules imposed by the pro leagues.

I understand who is holding those kids back and I know it’s not the colleges there was a person who stated that the NCAA may have some issues if the limit the amount a player can earn, but they are not the limiting factor the Pro Leagues are

[wgdsr]

rip van winkle?

[ggait]

Not commenting on the coaches salaries but in terms of not letting kids go from HS to pro in hoops and football, that is not NCAA. Those are and always have been rules imposed by the pro leagues.

Those are restraints on trade/commerce imposed by the nba and nfl for sure. However those otherwise questionable restraints become sanitized and legal because they are part of a collective bargaining agreement. Unions and cbas are broadly exempt from antitrust.

The restrictive rules of every sports league are one big antitrust violation. No way Google and Amazon could agree among themselves to a draft, free agency restrictions and salary cap for coders.

So the only way any of it is legal is via cba and player union. There is no other model that works legally. Amazing that the ncaa dodged the obvious illegality for so long. The pretext of student-athlete and non-commerce was doomed to fail. But you needed some plaintiffs lawyers to be incented to bring and invest in the big case.

Once the revenue got big enough in recent years, that investment finally made sense. Kind of like what happened with the tobacco companies. The case was an obvious winner hiding in plain view. But you need some lawyers to bring the case to collapse the house of cards.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2 ... 234796270/
wilken sending them back to the drawing board, nonplussed on nil restriction language or implementation. as well as other filing shortcomings including future athletes.

love the nc$$ attorney saying basically "we're not sure we have a deal then, this is what we're willing to do and it all needs to be in there". they've literally lost every case for almost 10 years, is facing a judge who has presided over some of them, and face by some estimates a $20 billion liability. they still think they have hand.

The mindset folks have surrounding this stuff is SO weird. Reading the comments from Americans where they think it makes sense to cap players ability to earn......but NOT coaches, trainers, admin. Oh they can avail themselves of the free market. Wait...what?

Show of hands: who here in America wants a third party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn? None of you, right? Well, then why would anyone ever advocate doing that to a fellow American?

I don't understand how folks don't get that's what the NCAA is trying to do.....stifle earnings, and they're doing it without talking with players.

This ain't the Soviet Union, comrade NCAA.

Two things
1) Anyone that joins a union is letting a "3rd party to arbitrarily decide how much money you can earn." I also understand that where this is eventually going. The involvement of any union is going to be wild given the vast differences between schools, conferences, sports, etc. If I was on a pro-union athlete, I'd want nothing to do with the legacy unions out there given their level of corruption and bloat and look toward the NFLPA, MLBPA, or the like for support.

2) Is it really earnings? I'd call what is going on more like bribes. Earnings you get compensated based on your performance or work. Most of these NIL deals are inducements to attend a college (note, I don't blame any player from working this angle to get as much as he/she can). The guys driving the bus on this (football and men's basketball players) already get full "compensation" in the form of free education, room, board and other support - obviously other sports aren't all full scholarships (and those are the ones that are going to get whacked in any deal). The rest should certainly be on the table but said "rest" should be for actual work - i.e., going to signings, IG earnings, performance on the field, etc. It shouldn't just be for showing up to school X.

When I left my corporate world and started a biz with a partner for a few years and now work independently. What’s the difference when I charge “time
And materials” for a deliverable and when I get zero of six figures (or rarely more) for a “best efforts” engagement (no different than Goldman Sasha bankers except I’m cooler!)? Don’t think one is earnings and the other isn’t? I’m not following the question on earnings or compensation. Sometimes I do yeoman's work and have deals where wires are being set up and they fall apart due to something blows out in invading the Ukraine or an unrelated larger bank failing. I get nothing in beta efforts but that doesn’t reflect the work I did at all (could turn storms throw me a bone in those situations but they have no contractual obligation to do so)

[Farfromgeneva]

Of course this settlement was not going to get approved.

The core issue is that the NCAA has been imposing compensation limits on players unilaterally.

And this settlement basically constructs a salary cap system that the current players had no say in. Deja vu all over again.

The only legal way to come up with a new system and new rules is to collectively bargain them. Which is what every other sports league has done.

Why not simply allow HS Football and basketball players to enter their respective pro leagues? it is done in Soccer, Hockey and Baseball. It is the professional league that are inhibiting these player earnings,

You never played football at a higher level than like 12-13yrs old did you?

[Asgot]

Yes I did but that is not my point. A person in this post said that the colleges were limiting the ability for athletes to make money but in reality it is the professional leagues that are doing that, look at the NBA when HS kids could make the jump right to the NBA how many were successful? A handful maybe. My point is that allow the kids who simply want to play ball to go to the pros like they do in Hockey and baseball and then let kids who need to or want to play college, pay them some but anytime they want to bet on themselves they can go to the league.

[44WeWantMore]

Yes I did but that is not my point. A person in this post said that the colleges were limiting the ability for athletes to make money but in reality it is the professional leagues that are doing that, look at the NBA when HS kids could make the jump right to the NBA how many were successful? A handful maybe. My point is that allow the kids who simply want to play ball to go to the pros like they do in Hockey and baseball and then let kids who need to or want to play college, pay them some but anytime they want to bet on themselves they can go to the league.

I assume they are using baseball as their examples, with a large number of farm teams at various levels, so players are not jumping straight from High School to MLB. Instead, it seems as if the NFL and NBA like having the NCAA as their farm system (and of course, so does the NCAA).

The conceptual problem is that for the vast majority of *student-athletes*, college sports (all of DII and DIII, and virtually all DI "olympic sports" athletes) support student-athletes, but the vast majority of *direct revenue* is a business built on the backs of under-compensated semi-pro athletes.

[a fan]

With suit, after suit......I fail to see how the NCAA survives. Conferences are on shaky ground.

All made worse by coming up with a half-wit "settlement", where they never once bothered asking players what they want. In what world do they think that will work out.


Four ex-Michigan players, including former quarterback Denard Robinson and wide receiver Braylon Edwards, have filed a class action lawsuit against the NCAA and Big Ten Network seeking more than $50 million for being "wrongfully and unlawfully denied" the opportunity to earn money off their name, image and likeness.


And they're more foolish still if they think that Congress is going to agree to a bill that bails them out.


https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... en-network