Hobart 2023

[BigHoss]

I respect the detail of that response and I better understand your perspective.

I wonder if the Matthews decommitting will turn Raymond off of Ontario commits? Or just Canadians in general. I hope not, but Knox, Bland and Matthews all bailed. There’s a lot of talent in British Columbia, I hope Bland’s decision doesn’t blind Brundage from recruiting players from there. You mentioned the scholarships, I instantly thought about what the recruiting situation will be like moving forward.

As I watched the game today, I instantly thought about how we could improve as a program. Guys quite honestly looked afraid the second things went south. I wonder how that can be fixed. I still really believe in these guys and someone mentioned the flashes of excellence. The first half really showed that. Now, the depth topic comes into play. Did the starters get tired and worn down as the game progressed? Yes. So, if we played a few more people over the course of the game could that issue of finishing in the second half be resolved? I think yes.

[Farfromgeneva]

I respect the detail of that response and I better understand your perspective.

I wonder if the Matthews decommitting will turn Raymond off of Ontario commits? Or just Canadians in general. I hope not, but Knox, Bland and Matthews all bailed. There’s a lot of talent in British Columbia, I hope Bland’s decision doesn’t blind Brundage from recruiting players from there. You mentioned the scholarships, I instantly thought about what the recruiting situation will be like moving forward.

As I watched the game today, I instantly thought about how we could improve as a program. Guys quite honestly looked afraid the second things went south. I wonder how that can be fixed. I still really believe in these guys and someone mentioned the flashes of excellence. The first half really showed that. Now, the depth topic comes into play. Did the starters get tired and worn down as the game progressed? Yes. So, if we played a few more people over the course of the game could that issue of finishing in the second half be resolved? I think yes.

We’re in agreement in general on this I think and clearly both care about the colleges.

I heard something to the effect that Raymond was turned off to Blue Ridge because of Bland promising to come then declaring to the draft up north but I hope not as O suspect Dom will get some players through there. We did just get a 2024 committed from a school (Neil McNeil-name cracks me up) in Ontario, that Sheldon Broughton I linked recently who looks like a heck of a two way dog and athlete. Figure we’re going to lose switches and decommits always to some degree as it happens but that’s where you hope the athletic aid can help on a key man here or there. We lose non Canadians too, don’t forget Colin Rovere who we will play against in conference the next four years at HPU.

BTW we had two awesome transfers who gave us multiple years in the 2000s-Mark Williamson and Jamie Kirk. But they came because they wanted to go to school at Hobart as much as play lacrosse there.

If we’re tired in game two and carry a roster of 61 something is very incongruous about that. The nervousness has me concerned they grip their sticks too tight which happened a lot earlier in Raymond’s tenure but thought we were over that more recently. Gotta let the kids have their freak flags fly a little in the field, not just with their hairstyles and mustaches for team pics. And I love Trujillos mustache as well as some of those mullets. My son wants to let his hair grow out so it can hang below his helmet in 4/5 now. His jerk coach named dad isn’t letting that groom just yet though.

[oldbartman]

The season is 2 games in. Lehigh has a pretty decent attack unit. But 19 goals worth? Canisius put 14 in on us. Yes most of those came against reserves in Q4. This is the same Canisius that was held to 4 goals yday v Bellarmine. Coach Fisher is early in his career at Hobart. From what I've watched the past 2 games, the D needs to go back basics. Maybe a re-reading of Bob Scott's "Lacrosse"? There's a chapter on goalie play to boot.

[BigHoss]

The season is 2 games in. Lehigh has a pretty decent attack unit. But 19 goals worth? Canisius put 14 in on us. Yes most of those came against reserves in Q4. This is the same Canisius that was held to 4 goals yday v Bellarmine. Coach Fisher is early in his career at Hobart. From what I've watched the past 2 games, the D needs to go back basics. Maybe a re-reading of Bob Scott's "Lacrosse"? There's a chapter on goalie play to boot.

It’s interesting because looking at the roster just before the season started, I expected the defense to be the strength of this team. I have a growing suspicion we’ll see Holtby in goal next Saturday.

[Laxgunea]

FFG, I'm with you on most lax analysis, and with some HWS analysis, but not about all things HWS. I don't pin the D3 thing on Hanna. He took the fall to save other's skins. Also, the faculty didn't run out Vincent. The faculty don't have that kind of power and haven't since about 1982. One anonymous person CLAIMING to be a faculty member sent a letter to Inside Higher Ed and the Chronicle, but Vincent had the support of many faculty -- I live in Geneva and many friends are faculty members, and there were plenty who supported him. The story that the faculty ran him out is a story by people who were not around. In the end he was done in by, of all things, the Herald, which did a solid investigative piece on his dissertation and published it. He'd have survived it if not for the mismanagement. There were stories of shouting matches in the Coxe Hall, secretaries refusing to work with him, BOT arguments with him behind closed doors. BTW, some of the mismanagement was his, but some was the BOTs. NO ONE with any solid management sense would have chosen a full time president after 18 Gearan years. The only sensible thing was a transition president (a formal role with experts who specialize in it). But the BOT went with Greg and he (at their urging) fired the provost in his first week. So he kneecapped himself right away. Plus, in town, he was aloof, which didn't sit well after the love fest for Mark and Mary the previous years. My only point is that it is complicated, and the BOT is who is most on the hook for all of what you describe, and especially with the presidential and provostial revolving door. And don't forget Bob Murphy, who mortgaged the reputation to bring in higher numbers. That must've been supported by the BOT, but look what its done to our selectivity over the last 10 years.
One addition: you describe the lax program very well, but TW deserves a mention. He turned the ship after Kerwick. The problem after Kimber was that there was seen to be (and probably was) a poor lacrosse culture that ultimately would not serve the program or school. TW turned that around, but it was a ship that was hard to turn. Those TW years could have been far worse in terms of wins and losses. Raymond came in with things just starting to move in the right direction in terms of team character and spirit, but still early in the game. His choices to have 4 year players have to be seen in the light of that background. And, we can't judge them in the light of the crazy portal game that has happened because of COVID. That was just unpredictable, what with visa restrictions, eligibility extensions, etc.... If we had kept Holden, if we had kept Scott, if Aslanian could have done an MA year ... just too many what ifs.
Also, I think Abby Johnson is worth 25 to 30 billion! I think she inherited a cool 15 billion when her dad died. She could float the place, but her philanthropy generally goes elsewhere.

[Farfromgeneva]

FFG, I'm with you on most lax analysis, and with some HWS analysis, but not about all things HWS. I don't pin the D3 thing on Hanna. He took the fall to save other's skins. Also, the faculty didn't run out Vincent. The faculty don't have that kind of power and haven't since about 1982. One anonymous person CLAIMING to be a faculty member sent a letter to Inside Higher Ed and the Chronicle, but Vincent had the support of many faculty -- I live in Geneva and many friends are faculty members, and there were plenty who supported him. The story that the faculty ran him out is a story by people who were not around. In the end he was done in by, of all things, the Herald, which did a solid investigative piece on his dissertation and published it. He'd have survived it if not for the mismanagement. There were stories of shouting matches in the Coxe Hall, secretaries refusing to work with him, BOT arguments with him behind closed doors. BTW, some of the mismanagement was his, but some was the BOTs. NO ONE with any solid management sense would have chosen a full time president after 18 Gearan years. The only sensible thing was a transition president (a formal role with experts who specialize in it). But the BOT went with Greg and he (at their urging) fired the provost in his first week. So he kneecapped himself right away. Plus, in town, he was aloof, which didn't sit well after the love fest for Mark and Mary the previous years. My only point is that it is complicated, and the BOT is who is most on the hook for all of what you describe, and especially with the presidential and provostial revolving door. And don't forget Bob Murphy, who mortgaged the reputation to bring in higher numbers. That must've been supported by the BOT, but look what its done to our selectivity over the last 10 years.
One addition: you describe the lax program very well, but TW deserves a mention. He turned the ship after Kerwick. The problem after Kimber was that there was seen to be (and probably was) a poor lacrosse culture that ultimately would not serve the program or school. TW turned that around, but it was a ship that was hard to turn. Those TW years could have been far worse in terms of wins and losses. Raymond came in with things just starting to move in the right direction in terms of team character and spirit, but still early in the game. His choices to have 4 year players have to be seen in the light of that background. And, we can't judge them in the light of the crazy portal game that has happened because of COVID. That was just unpredictable, what with visa restrictions, eligibility extensions, etc.... If we had kept Holden, if we had kept Scott, if Aslanian could have done an MA year ... just too many what ifs.
Also, I think Abby Johnson is worth 25 to 30 billion! I think she inherited a cool 15 billion when her dad died. She could float the place, but her philanthropy generally goes elsewhere.

I think we’re closer to agreement in general. Just see some I like personally as having too much stroke amongst the faculty while folks like McGowan, Baer and McGuire are held out for applause and accolades but not listened to enough. (Where has our Econ Dept gone????)

Think I liked the idea of a Gregory more than him specifically after two plus decades of what seems like mismanagement (and as I understand it Gearan is interim now they just can’t call it that). To me Hanna represents the issues with a lack of professional discipline dating back to not filing paperwork for a second round home game for the FB team in 2000 because he didn’t think we’d win (this is fact) and having to play on the road as the higher seed though Widener would’ve crushed us either way with a near NFL caliber WR. I also am still pretty upset that when my dad died early last decade and they in the ADs Dept and alum outreach convinced me to make my donation in his name to name a locker then it was gone within 24mo. I could’ve dropped that money elsewhere and his name would’ve stuck around even if electronically. It felt desperate and dishonest to get me to do so and ultimately knowing we didn’t have the renovations paid for a bit of a fast one on alum who cared a ton and was doing what he could since graduating for the colleges. Still can’t let that one go.

And yeah BOT thats wayyy too large and too local for a long time is a problem IMO. Trying hard to give Craig Stine whom I can of personally a long plank to fix some things. Getting guys like Erik Schiller from my time to throw down dough is a big step I think.

I don’t know what to make of TW era anymore but going to a Bellarmine game in Louisville that we just didn’t show up for and Max is freaking at the fuse line all day because of how piss poor it was remains in my head along with that TO in OT in the 2010 Cuse game when we had possession and a fast break.

With respect to Abby, we sell ourselves to her too cheaply.

You’re in town which is great I miss going there, did so a lot when I lived in DC and NYC but since going to Atl last time I was there was with my family after my mother passed an the FB staff (Art Garvey is a great dude) let my kids run sprints on the Boz.

[FMUBart]

Good discussion FFG & Laxgunea...although I beg to differ on the Hanna angle and the--almost--return to D3. That was ALL Hanna; we even had a conversation about it and he flat out misstated(I don't want to say lied, but...) certain aspects of the planned move. Not that he didn't accomplish some good things, but he was not respected by many....since you live in town, you obviously are aware.

[Laxgunea]

That's interesting FMUBart, and I certainly may not have the full story. Also, FFG I do think we are closer than I imagined on it. There is lots I don't know, and I only know the parts I do know, so there is much for me to learn. One thing, FFG, is certain: what you describe with your donation in your Dad's name is terrible, and if it were me, I'd probably not get over it. So, I admire your continued love for the place.
I'm a bit hesitant to be too critical these days because numbers are way down. I'm told that athletics is bringing in all of the students -- something like 60% of students are varsity athletes! It's impressive to be able to do that and also maintain a good academic caliber. As everyone has said, it's sort of a niche school in that way: great academics and athletics in a small bucolic setting. It's not a hard sell to the right person, but it can be hard to find the right people.
Putting all of that to the side, what the heck can be done about the defense? And it seems to me that lots of the scoring in the second half was from simple cuts in front of the crease ... they were quick, but it was basic stuff. I lost some confidence in the D this week.

[Farfromgeneva]

That's interesting FMUBart, and I certainly may not have the full story. Also, FFG I do think we are closer than I imagined on it. There is lots I don't know, and I only know the parts I do know, so there is much for me to learn. One thing, FFG, is certain: what you describe with your donation in your Dad's name is terrible, and if it were me, I'd probably not get over it. So, I admire your continued love for the place.
I'm a bit hesitant to be too critical these days because numbers are way down. I'm told that athletics is bringing in all of the students -- something like 60% of students are varsity athletes! It's impressive to be able to do that and also maintain a good academic caliber. As everyone has said, it's sort of a niche school in that way: great academics and athletics in a small bucolic setting. It's not a hard sell to the right person, but it can be hard to find the right people.
Putting all of that to the side, what the heck can be done about the defense? And it seems to me that lots of the scoring in the second half was from simple cuts in front of the crease ... they were quick, but it was basic stuff. I lost some confidence in the D this week.

The rebounds LK gives up are a problem. He’s out of position when the opponent gets it back. D needs help but that’s an issue as well.

[Bart]

Good discussion FFG & Laxgunea...although I beg to differ on the Hanna angle and the--almost--return to D3. That was ALL Hanna; we even had a conversation about it and he flat out misstated(I don't want to say lied, but...) certain aspects of the planned move. Not that he didn't accomplish some good things, but he was not respected by many....since you live in town, you obviously are aware.

While I agree Hanna did some good things I will agree the D3 thing was a total cluster fk.

[Farfromgeneva]

On Hanna, don’t forget NCAA sanctions for failing to file the appropriate paperwork as well as the previously mentioned lack of filing for FB playoff games. He just wasn’t good at managing a department and doing the things that job required the last 20yrs he was employed there. Nice guy, his daughter is a sweetheart. Can see why the town embraces him and them (as opposed to, say, Scott Urick realizing he moved in HS) like the Toners (Bob was better at his job IMO). He’s just a good symbol/example of the general lack of professionalism administratively over the years. To insular and didn’t open the doors to enough voices and professional expertise outside a 120-150mi radius.

We have 14 penalties through two games. Opponents have seven (7). Not all on D but that combined with some out of position goalie play probably has a lot to do with our early 16.5 GA PG.

Clear the offense, when healthy, will be ok.

I am still getting used to certain numbers but did we go deep at mid? Don’t recall seeing Greenberg, Considine (spoken about in podcast) or Delaney on the field. Probably got a run but we tightened the bench again. Thought that would be a thing of the past and makes a roster of 61 seem wildly superfluous unless we’re running a “heads for beds” program now.

[man:down]

wow - a lot of topics covered. On Saturday, once the momentum shifted to Lehigh it was a possession issue that seemed to be a combination of things:
1) Hobart offense trying for the quick-strikes rather than long possessions (to give the D some rest) and
2) Hobart offense playing a little panicked and turning the ball over in those scenarios and
3) Hobart offense stopped moving the ball and went to NBA style 1 on 1 tries with everyone else watching.
4) some questionable penalties and way too many man-down scenarios (and Lehigh goals) resulting from Hobart face-off penalties (why couldn't the coaches make adjustments there - personnel? approach?).
5) clearly Lehigh made some very good in-game adjustments too

And the D was just plain gassed. Players were running wild and the Hobart guys were just trying to catch up which seldom happens to the Hobart D. Maybe the goalie needed to be more of a field general - who knows.

Another issue is that as much as the coaches preach "next play," the players play nervous and tight. Unless you are a starter who has earned the right to make mistakes (and those guys, our starters, dropped passes, got stuck in double and triple-teams and threw a lot of balls away) you worry about screwing up and being buried on the bench. They all need to play that loose - that's why they were recruited. They all need to be mentally tough but you have 61 guys essentially working a full-time job in the hope to get some time on the field. Its got to be hard not to grip your stick too tight. Coaches should practice what they preach there - make a mistake and move on.

Other stuff - great to see Herlihy coming out of the box and he will find his shooting/scoring rhythm no doubt. Bach needs to follow Simas' lead and lean in to his defender and just go to the cage - Brad was a beast and Chad has the size to do the same thing. Need Datellas healthy in April even if it hurts not to have him over the next few games (except Cuse - he needs to play that game!). Greene is a serious athlete but I agree that he may not be the best option behind the net. Ward seemed to fit that role in the fall scrimmages. He protects/moves the ball well, has the hands and the vision (and the height) but the coaches seem to want the small quick dodging threats out there - Rosa, Delano, Detallas, Greene - even if it limits the feeding from x. Would love to see Holtby get a shot between the pipes to see if it changes the defense at all.

[oldbartman]

Are you FLIPPING kidding me?!?! "Happy"... ?


https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... .%E2%80%9D

“We want him to be a next play guy, a short memory guy,” Raymond said on expectations for Sotiropoulos this year. “He was a great bright spot for us today. He had a couple key saves in spots where he saved us defensively a few times so I’m happy with his play early and we need to continue to have him play better as well. We’re happy where he’s at two games in.”

He needs to step his game up a whole lot against Colgate. I don't know much about Gate, but they are always up for playing us. According to the Weather Channel, Saturday will have a high of 26. Last year's game was cancelled due to weather/cold, even though Hobart offered to play the game in the Dome.

[Farfromgeneva]

wow - a lot of topics covered. On Saturday, once the momentum shifted to Lehigh it was a possession issue that seemed to be a combination of things:
1) Hobart offense trying for the quick-strikes rather than long possessions (to give the D some rest) and - Not to put in all on him but there was one transition shot in Q3 by Simas when we should've held for possession, not a terrible shot but it's burned into my brain
2) Hobart offense playing a little panicked and turning the ball over in those scenarios and - yep
3) Hobart offense stopped moving the ball and went to NBA style 1 on 1 tries with everyone else watching. - see above
4) some questionable penalties and way too many man-down scenarios (and Lehigh goals) resulting from Hobart face-off penalties (why couldn't the coaches make adjustments there - personnel? approach?). - I still think the pre whistle/during set calls were not a Shea problem but obviously watching it on ESPN+ makes it hard to see, just 7 calls for a guy who's basically a 60% over a period of time who stood up Sisselberger and Cole last year is odd.
5) clearly Lehigh made some very good in-game adjustments too - This has been a problem pretty much the entire D1 era, lost a bunch of games to similar (at the time anyways) programs like bucknell, fairfield and rutgers where we'd lose 2-4 goal halftime leads, rarely did the inverse occur

And the D was just plain gassed. Players were running wild and the Hobart guys were just trying to catch up which seldom happens to the Hobart D. Maybe the goalie needed to be more of a field general - who knows.

Another issue is that as much as the coaches preach "next play," the players play nervous and tight. Unless you are a starter who has earned the right to make mistakes (and those guys, our starters, dropped passes, got stuck in double and triple-teams and threw a lot of balls away) you worry about screwing up and being buried on the bench. They all need to play that loose - that's why they were recruited. They all need to be mentally tough but you have 61 guys essentially working a full-time job in the hope to get some time on the field. Its got to be hard not to grip your stick too tight. Coaches should practice what they preach there - make a mistake and move on. - Been an issue the entire Raymond era thought he'd evolve on this by now

Other stuff - great to see Herlihy coming out of the box and he will find his shooting/scoring rhythm no doubt. Bach needs to follow Simas' lead and lean in to his defender and just go to the cage - Brad was a beast and Chad has the size to do the same thing. Need Datellas healthy in April even if it hurts not to have him over the next few games (except Cuse - he needs to play that game!). Greene is a serious athlete but I agree that he may not be the best option behind the net. Ward seemed to fit that role in the fall scrimmages. He protects/moves the ball well, has the hands and the vision (and the height) but the coaches seem to want the small quick dodging threats out there - Rosa, Delano, Detallas, Greene - even if it limits the feeding from x. Would love to see Holtby get a shot between the pipes to see if it changes the defense at all.

Why not run positionless and allow Rosa, Delano and Greene to play up top more? The first two surprised me with the quality of their outside shooting first two games, both in terms of accuracy and velocity.

Maybe I'm completely wrong on this but still see Wilson as the future if the season gets out of hand....

[Farfromgeneva]

Are you FLIPPING lidding me?!?! "Happy"... ?


https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... .%E2%80%9D

“We want him to be a next play guy, a short memory guy,” Raymond said on expectations for Sotiropoulos this year. “He was a great bright spot for us today. He had a couple key saves in spots where he saved us defensively a few times so I’m happy with his play early and we need to continue to have him play better as well. We’re happy where he’s at two games in.”

He needs to step his game up a whole lot against Colgate. I don't know much about Gate, but they are always up for playing us. According to the Weather Channel, Saturday will have a high of 26. Last year's game was cancelled due to weather/cold, even though Hobart offered to play the game in the Dome.

Realize you have to be publicly constructive but it also makes me wonder about the fragility of the psyches if it's so important to be so positive. LK looks good when he flys around and makes a cool save so seems like they are seeing the potential vs the reality for someone in their fourth year in college.

[Ketch]

Are you FLIPPING lidding me?!?! "Happy"... ?


https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... .%E2%80%9D

“We want him to be a next play guy, a short memory guy,” Raymond said on expectations for Sotiropoulos this year. “He was a great bright spot for us today. He had a couple key saves in spots where he saved us defensively a few times so I’m happy with his play early and we need to continue to have him play better as well. We’re happy where he’s at two games in.”

He needs to step his game up a whole lot against Colgate. I don't know much about Gate, but they are always up for playing us. According to the Weather Channel, Saturday will have a high of 26. Last year's game was cancelled due to weather/cold, even though Hobart offered to play the game in the Dome.

I thought that Loukas actually played pretty well except for those two rebound goals...
I hope it's not that cold on Saturday since I'm planning on going to the game. I've been in Hamilton a few times when it was absolutely brutal.
Watched the AF-Colgate game. Colgate is what they always are- big and tough. They will want to play a low scoring game. That's their style.

[henryben]

Are you FLIPPING lidding me?!?! "Happy"... ?


https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... .%E2%80%9D

“We want him to be a next play guy, a short memory guy,” Raymond said on expectations for Sotiropoulos this year. “He was a great bright spot for us today. He had a couple key saves in spots where he saved us defensively a few times so I’m happy with his play early and we need to continue to have him play better as well. We’re happy where he’s at two games in.”

He needs to step his game up a whole lot against Colgate. I don't know much about Gate, but they are always up for playing us. According to the Weather Channel, Saturday will have a high of 26. Last year's game was cancelled due to weather/cold, even though Hobart offered to play the game in the Dome.

I thought that Loukas actually played pretty well except for those two rebound goals...
I hope it's not that cold on Saturday since I'm planning on going to the game. I've been in Hamilton a few times when it was absolutely brutal.
Watched the AF-Colgate game. Colgate is what they always are- big and tough. They will want to play a low scoring game. That's their style.

High of 30 on Saturday in Hamilton!

[BigHoss]

I just watched the highlights of the new Canadian commit. He’s going to be fantastic. Very high motor and he has the ability to be a two way player. The coaching staff refers to that as a “horse” and I think Sheldon will really embody that. Might be a “D mid” to start, but he has the potential to be a standout. A part of me hopes that Elis will get some time to start this year. I think he could be a staple for the program for years to come.

[FMUBart]

Are you FLIPPING lidding me?!?! "Happy"... ?


https://www.fltimes.com/sports/mens-lac ... .%E2%80%9D

“We want him to be a next play guy, a short memory guy,” Raymond said on expectations for Sotiropoulos this year. “He was a great bright spot for us today. He had a couple key saves in spots where he saved us defensively a few times so I’m happy with his play early and we need to continue to have him play better as well. We’re happy where he’s at two games in.”

He needs to step his game up a whole lot against Colgate. I don't know much about Gate, but they are always up for playing us. According to the Weather Channel, Saturday will have a high of 26. Last year's game was cancelled due to weather/cold, even though Hobart offered to play the game in the Dome.

I thought that Loukas actually played pretty well except for those two rebound goals...
I hope it's not that cold on Saturday since I'm planning on going to the game. I've been in Hamilton a few times when it was absolutely brutal.
Watched the AF-Colgate game. Colgate is what they always are- big and tough. They will want to play a low scoring game. That's their style.

Agree Ketch, I thought the goalie was excellent early on and was left out to dry by a porous D too many times. Really don't see goalie as an issue right now, but the idea that we're not playing enough guys is worrisome--especially given the 2nd half meltdown.

[FMUBart]

HWS athletics day of giving has started....pony up, please!!