NCAA reorg imminent

[AOD]

Rutgers . . . one of the luckiest schools in history.

(edited for continuity)

That's one way to look at it. But then while all the other BIG10 schools are investing the proceeds of the media rights harvest in athletic facilities, Rutgers is simply filling a hole (losing nearly $80 million last year alone) and falling further behind. And, RU's full share doesn't kick in for another 4 years, so they're trailing already. RU is dead last in alumni giving among all schools in the Power 5 conferences. So, those nifty NIL deals funded by alums (see Jaden Rashada's deal at Miami) won't be visited upon Rutgers' recruits. Finally, as streaming becomes the dominant mode for event transmission, Rutgers' regional desirability will fade. This isn't the last reshuffling of alliances and RU won't be part of the next wave. Lucky for a short while, perhaps, but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

[JPAtlantic]

Rutgers . . . one of the luckiest schools in history.

(edited for continuity)

That's one way to look at it. But then while all the other BIG10 schools are investing the proceeds of the media rights harvest in athletic facilities, Rutgers is simply filling a hole (losing nearly $80 million last year alone) and falling further behind. And, RU's full share doesn't kick in for another 4 years, so they're trailing already. RU is dead last in alumni giving among all schools in the Power 5 conferences. So, those nifty NIL deals funded by alums (see Jaden Rashada's deal at Miami) won't be visited upon Rutgers' recruits. Finally, as streaming becomes the dominant mode for event transmission, Rutgers' regional desirability will fade. This isn't the last reshuffling of alliances and RU won't be part of the next wave. Lucky for a short while, perhaps, but I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

B1G wanted the NYC market. The lucky schools are the ones that don't produce and are in small markets, yet still get the full conference share. (Purdue, Illinois, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Vanderbilt)

[DocBarrister]

I certainly doubt Clemson and Florida State will wait 10 years.

Eye roll.

I'll let the SEC commissioner spell it out for you: SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey on expansion to the Network: Some schools have grant-of-rights "and we're not going to get in the middle of those."

Note that USC, UCLA, TX and OK all bailed just a few years in advance of when their GORs would have expired.

So sure Clemson and FSU can leave the ACC with 14 years left on their GORs. But they'll need to pay $$$$ to Wake, BC, Syr, etc. And they'd need to suck up lots of time and uncertainty to find out what the exit will cost them. Elon Musk probably isn't going to be forced to buy Twitter, but he is going to have to pay through the nose for walking away from a legally binding contract.

Recall that the current ACC GOR was implemented after UMD left for the B10. Realizing that UMD's existing GOR ($35M negotiated settlement) was too small, the ACC agreed to the current version. Up until recently, it was hailed as the master stroke that saved the ACC from falling apart. The whole point of the GOR was to make it close to impossible for a school to leave early. Making the ACC a sea of stability in the choppy waters of college football re-alignment.

Clemson and FSU gave away all of their exit leverage years ago. If they didn't like the current version of the GOR (FSU voted against it fyi), they could have left the ACC in 2016. Since they didn't, they'll have to bring a very very big wallet to the divorce negotiations.

The current version of the ACC may not last all the way through 2036, but it isn't going anywhere now.

You don’t keep your conference viable by treating departing teams like a jerk.

For example, if you are Commissioner Phillips and you treat a departing Clemson and Florida State badly and with litigation, who the heck would want to join the ACC?

Contract terms are important and cannot be ignored. But circumstances and party interests can change. I am confident that what Commissioner Phillips means by saying that “everything is on the table” is that the ACC is open for business; everything, including the GOR is negotiable (or renegotiable); and that he will do everything he can to keep ACC members happy (more $$$) and will negotiate a mutually satisfactory departure for any member that wishes to leave the conference.

Phillips is not drawing lines in the sand … he’s keeping his office door open for negotiations.

Fairly prudent and wise approach if you ask me.

DocBarrister

[ggait]

Clemson and FSU AGREED to pledge their media rights to the acc for the next 14 years. Just like all the other schools did.

It is hardly being a jerk to expect all those schools to honor their contract. Or to pay exit fees for breaking the agreement.

FYI, no school other than umd has even attempted to leave their conference in violation of their gor agreement.

So the only possible jerks would be those seeking to slither out of a binding agreement they voluntarily agreed to.

Speaking as a lawyer, you should stick to medicine.

[OCanada]

Contract law - Circumstances change; sometimes radically. Why was a long term contract on the table and agreed to in the first place? Contracts are renegotiated, broken, negated etc all the time. The judicial system is equipped to deal with it, contracts can be renegotiated, parties can agree go firgo it etc.

[wgdsr]

Clemson and FSU AGREED to pledge their media rights to the acc for the next 14 years. Just like all the other schools did.

It is hardly being a jerk to expect all those schools to honor their contract. Or to pay exit fees for breaking the agreement.

FYI, no school other than umd has even attempted to leave their conference in violation of their gor agreement.

So the only possible jerks would be those seeking to slither out of a binding agreement they voluntarily agreed to.

Speaking as a lawyer, you should stick to medicine.

no one knows what he's talking about re: leaving members. which btw might bring about evisceration for the league, like they're obligated to treat them with kid's gloves.

this is what phillips actually said about gor:

On the possibility of (or ability to) some schools challenging the Grant of Rights … “ I can just go by what history has told us with the grant of rights, including in current times. People talked about Oklahoma and Texas leaving immediately. I think that’s pretty well-stated now that that’s not the case. They’re going to wait until their grants of rights is over. Listening to UCLA and USC at the end of June, June 30, and subsequent days after they clearly are going to stay in the PAC-12 until their grant of rights is over. So you can follow the logic there. I would think that the significance of what that would mean, the television rights that the conference owns as well as a nine-figure financial penalty, I think it holds...."

[DocBarrister]

Clemson and FSU AGREED to pledge their media rights to the acc for the next 14 years. Just like all the other schools did.

It is hardly being a jerk to expect all those schools to honor their contract. Or to pay exit fees for breaking the agreement.

FYI, no school other than umd has even attempted to leave their conference in violation of their gor agreement.

So the only possible jerks would be those seeking to slither out of a binding agreement they voluntarily agreed to.

Speaking as a lawyer, you should stick to medicine.

None of what you say makes sense from a business and legal perspective.

It’s pretty obvious that the ACC members themselves are not happy with the status quo. If the members wanted to maintain the status quo, there wouldn’t be multiple reports of various schools seeking a departure to other conferences. There are even reports that ESPN wants to void or renegotiate their contract with the ACC. Without ESPN, the GOR becomes meaningless.

It’s absurd to think the ACC will maintain the status quo deep into the 2030s. The idea is ludicrous.

Football the business is a bit like football the game … you might have a game plan going in, but if you’re losing badly then you can’t just stick with the plan. You make adjustments and try something different to get back in the game.

The ACC is losing … badly. The ACC knows it cannot stand still as a conference.

Commissioner Phillips said everything is on the table.

Not surprising at all … being open to change and adjustments is precisely what you need to be if you’re losing in business, law, medicine, or sports.

The rigidity you advocate would only ensure defeat.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Contract law - Circumstances change; sometimes radically. Why was a long term contract on the table and agreed to in the first place? Contracts are renegotiated, broken, negated etc all the time. The judicial system is equipped to deal with it, contracts can be renegotiated, parties can agree go firgo it etc.

Precisely. Contracts are not written in stone. The best way to view contracts is as living, breathing, practical instruments.

When circumstances and relationships change, contracts often do as well.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Clemson and FSU AGREED to pledge their media rights to the acc for the next 14 years. Just like all the other schools did.

It is hardly being a jerk to expect all those schools to honor their contract. Or to pay exit fees for breaking the agreement.

FYI, no school other than umd has even attempted to leave their conference in violation of their gor agreement.

So the only possible jerks would be those seeking to slither out of a binding agreement they voluntarily agreed to.

Speaking as a lawyer, you should stick to medicine.

no one knows what he's talking about re: leaving members. which btw might bring about evisceration for the league, like they're obligated to treat them with kid's gloves.

this is what phillips actually said about gor:

On the possibility of (or ability to) some schools challenging the Grant of Rights … “ I can just go by what history has told us with the grant of rights, including in current times. People talked about Oklahoma and Texas leaving immediately. I think that’s pretty well-stated now that that’s not the case. They’re going to wait until their grants of rights is over. Listening to UCLA and USC at the end of June, June 30, and subsequent days after they clearly are going to stay in the PAC-12 until their grant of rights is over. So you can follow the logic there. I would think that the significance of what that would mean, the television rights that the conference owns as well as a nine-figure financial penalty, I think it holds...."

And yet he said, “Everything is on the table.”

Phillips is willing to negotiate.

Why are some of you so adamantly opposed to that?

Do you find change and uncertainty stressful? I think Phillips, to his credit, sees it as an opportunity.

DocBarrister

[ggait]

Phillips is willing to negotiate to strengthen the position of his members. Like maybe adding new acc schools. Or teaming up somehow with the pac 12 or the b12.

But the absolute last thing he’s going to do is surrender valid legal rights to allow a couple of members to defect to the detriment of the majority. Unless until a super majority of his member schools vote to dissolve the league, he’s going to enforce the gor. Because that is what the majority of his members desire.

Unilateral disarmament to facilitate self destruction is not what “everything is on the table” means. That is literally the last thing it means. Which Phillips takes pains to point out in the quote above.

[Farfromgeneva]

I think the issue here is that a negotiation, even one where one side feels they might have a gun to their head (if they do) still requires that side to extract something of value and Docs argument hasn’t demonstrated there’s any value to be had for the ACC commissioner to negotiate a release for any singular or multiple schools. It’s only being viewed from one side.

Now if two bounced and said “sue us” and ran out the string on the conference, that could happen. There could be no plaintiff left in 5yrs if Clemson and FSU bounced and said “come get it”. But that’s different than believing the contract would be modified by the conference without extracting value they feel is worth doing so for. And the network has no reason to allow it.

[wgdsr]

and it begins...
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

[a fan]

and it begins...
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

Can't believe it took this long. This will be fascinating to watch. Welcome to the American free market.

Edit to add....I couldn't find this story anywhere else. Is this an accurate report?

[OCanada]

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cf ... -ten-talks

[wgdsr]

and it begins...
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

Can't believe it took this long. This will be fascinating to watch. Welcome to the American free market.

Edit to add....I couldn't find this story anywhere else. Is this an accurate report?

either no or not exactly depending on what your take is.

couple things within the tweet feed... the follow up partial correction if you saw it:
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

and clifford had his own correction:
https://twitter.com/seancliff14/status/ ... vpmDw&s=01

so... to this point it's maybe just clifford and psu players w/psu and the b1g supposedly talking. untethered.

and then there was this re: the cfbpa itself a year ago (in the former tweet thread above), depending on how far you want to get into the weeds on one man's opinion:
https://twitter.com/dskamper/status/142 ... RqLAQ&s=01

[a fan]

and it begins...
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

Can't believe it took this long. This will be fascinating to watch. Welcome to the American free market.

Edit to add....I couldn't find this story anywhere else. Is this an accurate report?

either no or not exactly depending on what your take is.

couple things within the tweet feed... the follow up partial correction if you saw it:
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

and clifford had his own correction:
https://twitter.com/seancliff14/status/ ... vpmDw&s=01

so... to this point it's maybe just clifford and psu players w/psu and the b1g supposedly talking. untethered.

and then there was this re: the cfbpa itself a year ago (in the former tweet thread above), depending on how far you want to get into the weeds on one man's opinion:
https://twitter.com/dskamper/status/142 ... RqLAQ&s=01

Thank you for taking the time to give more details....appreciated.

[wgdsr]

and it begins...
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

Can't believe it took this long. This will be fascinating to watch. Welcome to the American free market.

Edit to add....I couldn't find this story anywhere else. Is this an accurate report?

either no or not exactly depending on what your take is.

couple things within the tweet feed... the follow up partial correction if you saw it:
https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/statu ... vzafw&s=01

and clifford had his own correction:
https://twitter.com/seancliff14/status/ ... vpmDw&s=01

so... to this point it's maybe just clifford and psu players w/psu and the b1g supposedly talking. untethered.

and then there was this re: the cfbpa itself a year ago (in the former tweet thread above), depending on how far you want to get into the weeds on one man's opinion:
https://twitter.com/dskamper/status/142 ... RqLAQ&s=01

Thank you for taking the time to give more details....appreciated.

np, my man. i find it a bit fascinating as well, as well as surprising it's taken so long to get here. the nc$$ must've had pictures of somebody for decades and maybe they died.
throwback saturday to when you and kavanaugh were telling the nc$$ to buckle up, and stop getting your butt kicked in court:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 771281002/

[wgdsr]

Phillips is willing to negotiate to strengthen the position of his members. Like maybe adding new acc schools. Or teaming up somehow with the pac 12 or the b12.

But the absolute last thing he’s going to do is surrender valid legal rights to allow a couple of members to defect to the detriment of the majority. Unless until a super majority of his member schools vote to dissolve the league, he’s going to enforce the gor. Because that is what the majority of his members desire.

Unilateral disarmament to facilitate self destruction is not what “everything is on the table” means. That is literally the last thing it means. Which Phillips takes pains to point out in the quote above.

so how about this? either put up stakes with one, (or both) for football for these out conference games? if the cfp is going to expand, and everyone's locking in at least one spot... why not ditch games against directional michigan, louisiana, and texas or vs richmond... and play 12 real games? conference games... and then 3 ooc games against each other? with a 4th for vs. sec or b1g, etc.

that's a contract that could be negotiated on today's terms. and allow clemson to schedule hooever they want with the new paradigm in mind. think clemson could get a nice payday scheduling alabama or georgia 50/50? i don't know how the present espn contract details things for non-conference games. but if there's wiggle room there... set off on a directive of p5 football only. make it unique.

to date all i've seen is whispers about combining networks, maybe have some random games. i don't see how that moves the needle enough.

[Big Dog]

Phillips is willing to negotiate to strengthen the position of his members. Like maybe adding new acc schools. Or teaming up somehow with the pac 12 or the b12.

But the absolute last thing he’s going to do is surrender valid legal rights to allow a couple of members to defect to the detriment of the majority. Unless until a super majority of his member schools vote to dissolve the league, he’s going to enforce the gor. Because that is what the majority of his members desire.

Unilateral disarmament to facilitate self destruction is not what “everything is on the table” means. That is literally the last thing it means. Which Phillips takes pains to point out in the quote above.

Well sure, what else could he say? But he'll enforce teh GOR until he doesn't. In addition to the "majority of his members', ESPN is a huge stakeholder as they essentially are paying for the GOR. If ESPN thinks it advantageous for ESPN that Clemson & FSU join the SEC -- as espn owns the SECNetwork in addition to the ACCNet -- ESPN can make that happen.

[Farfromgeneva]

I mean there’s merit to both sides. It’s uniquely rare to strategically be plotting to violate a contract without some organic event influencing such a move. Once it “feels” necessary, then yeah contracts are broken all the time and we really don’t know who has the leverage. I don’t see this 40-50 school entity being viable for its price tag. Think you need 70-90 in order to actually fill schedules. And there’s little chance all the schools left holding the bag, cut out from the bug cheddar while needing to service its debts, are going to happily participate with these other programs. I suppose they could pay the schools to play them but what do you think Duke, Kansas, Cincinnati and SMU are going to charge for a game? Many multiples of what those smaller D1 sunbelt and Midwest schools get currently. So if it costs $10-$20mm to fill out 5-7 games on a schedule and there’s minimal TV value because they aren’t part of the closed party and as such no consequence, they may find there’s a lot more value in schools 51-80 than everyone seems to think.

BTW comparing Duke and Vandy football lacks any knowledge of college football.