Syracuse

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

After last night's OT win over the Golden Domers, I've come to the conclusion that this Orange team will not challenge for the crown at the end of May. I don’t think that’s a stretch to say after having a pretty decent sample size of their wins over Stanford, Binghamton, Stony Brook and Notre Dame. They may not even make it to the final weekend. I can’t see them putting it all together between now and then.

Let’s face it, this program has a new coach in her first head-coaching position. It takes time to build a system regardless of the talent level inherited. There are some good coaches doing good things with their programs these days, like Jill Batcheller at Villanova and Melissa Lehman at Rutgers, and John Sung at Carthage (lol—just wanted to see if you were paying attention, Doc ); but it takes time to build a contender regardless of the talent a coach has on their team. Coaching seems to matter a lot more in women’s lacrosse than it does in some other sports—like NBA basketball, for instance. A team bursting with talent like Syracuse will cover over coaching mistakes (like they did last night) on occasion. Kayla Treanor will experience being outcoached this season at some point and her team won't be able to cover it. Doesn’t mean she’s not a good coach; doesn’t mean she won’t put it all together in the future. But it won’t be this year. Too soon in the proceedings. I also don't know if Treanor will be able to "coach out" the boneheaded mistakes this team seems inherently prone to commit during big postseason games. Or the unnecessary flash alluded to toward the end of the Syracuse/Notre Dame game thread by wlaxphan if I'm remembering accurately.

I think it's way too early in the season to come to that conclusion. So much room for improvement (or decline) between now and May. Has Syracuse's defense been underwhelming and mediocre at times this young season? Absolutely. They need to ditch the two-goalie system and make Hower the full-time starter. She made some big saves in that third quarter that lead to Syracuse transition goals on the other end. I think Cuse's' zone defense has been good for stretches of some games- definitely not the full 60 minutes. They were very active in limiting Notre Dame good looks on offense for the first 20-or so minutes of the game. After that, well... not so much. But definitely believe Notre Dame was gifted a few of those free position opportunities; Coach Treanor also shared this sentiment.

Syracuse's offense hasn't reached its peak. They've shown flashes of how dominant they can be when they're all moving and passing/feeding the ball with such zip and accuracy. Hawryschuk is still working her way back to 100%, and honestly I don't think Carney has reached her 2021 form yet either. The midfield obviously hasn't produced enough as of yet either. They still have a ways to go before they're offensively firing on all cylinders.

Entirely possible. Wouldn’t be my first time making an ill fated prediction.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

This is probably the cynical perspective but maybe the best way to gameplan against the Orange (during this stage of the teams development anyway) is to stay close and wait for them to get tentative at the end of the game. It's what the Tom Brady England Patriots used to do often in big games--stare them down until the other team blinks. In other words, they do something nervous and choke. Syracuse has blinked plenty at the end of close games this year. Sometimes they survive, and like yesterday showed, sometimes they don't.

I'm still intrigued by this sequence that I think the game turned on for Syracuse. Just a simple pass which ended up resulting in a critical turnover. The questionable calls by the refs down the stretch may not have factored if this simple pass had been executed. Instead, 35 muffed it, 24 threw a hip check (blocking foul) to prevent the opponent from an unobstructed chance to scoop the loose ball, and voila, Northwestern has the turnover they needed which ultimately resulted in the game tying goal.

[seacoaster]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

Yes, that’s a valid point. But my point was, it never would’ve come to that if they could have executed that simple pass.

[seacoaster]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

Yes, that’s a valid point. But my point was, it never would’ve come to that if they could have executed that simple pass.

I don't disagree about the muffed pass. But the Gilbert foul was, I thought, the icing on a bad, bad cake of officiating.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

Yes, that’s a valid point. But my point was, it never would’ve come to that if they could have executed that simple pass.

I don't disagree about the muffed pass. But the Gilbert foul was, I thought, the icing on a bad, bad cake of officiating.

I agree. They were missing calls all game. But you’re always going to have that human element in the ranks of the zebras. If you can avoid the situation that they decide a game with a single call or a single missed call—so much the better.

[Brownlax]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

She not only crashed into the opposing player but she also hit her with the shot which should have resulted in a yellow card.

[tothedraw]

You also have the human element of players. Yeah, 35 took her eyes off the ball, was thinking about next move etc.
I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.
Gilbert should have been yellowed on the shot/play that hit Goodale and been on the bench in OT
I don't think anyone choked. Lacrosse is a game of runs and things happen fast. SU didn't give up a 10 goal lead. It's a one goal OOC game. Move on. I said in another thread, that game was a mess, not surprised it ended in a mess.
The goalie situation needs to be resolved if they are to reach their potential. IMO. KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

[DMac]

Show us the replay of Lauren Gilbert crashing into Katie Goodale in the last two minutes...and the no call, sending Goodale, a starting defender, off the field.

She not only crashed into the opposing player but she also hit her with the shot which should have resulted in a yellow card.

Saw this....yes, yellow card, hit a player with her shot. Nope, no yc.
Yes, there's the human element, this however was an incompetent crew.

tothedraw wrote
KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

Agree. A rookie coach who will learn with experience. Do not like the way she is handling coming down
the stretch of games so far. SB game never should have gone to OT, played the clock and too conservatively
with nearly four minutes left in the game. Had a three goal lead. Couple of goal lead with a couple of minutes left in this one. As you note, relax and play your game.

[seacoaster]

You also have the human element of players. Yeah, 35 took her eyes off the ball, was thinking about next move etc.
I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.
Gilbert should have been yellowed on the shot/play that hit Goodale and been on the bench in OT
I don't think anyone choked. Lacrosse is a game of runs and things happen fast. SU didn't give up a 10 goal lead. It's a one goal OOC game. Move on. I said in another thread, that game was a mess, not surprised it ended in a mess.
The goalie situation needs to be resolved if they are to reach their potential. IMO. KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

Agree with all that, TTD.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.

So the blocking foul was called on 35. Thanks for the clarification.

[tothedraw]

I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.

So the blocking foul was called on 35. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know, may have been the deftly executed tomahawk check.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.

So the blocking foul was called on 35. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know, may have been the deftly executed tomahawk check.

Was there one on the play?

[@inthe8m]

I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.

So the blocking foul was called on 35. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know, may have been the deftly executed tomahawk check.

The backside official at the bottom of the screen made the call and she is clearly indicating blocking. The foul was against 24 for the hip check.

The on ball official seemed to let just about everything go including some obvious pushes from behind, etc.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.

So the blocking foul was called on 35. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know, may have been the deftly executed tomahawk check.

The backside official at the bottom of the screen made the call and she is clearly indicating blocking. The foul was against 24 for the hip check.

The on ball official seemed to let just about everything go including some obvious pushes from behind, etc.

Thanks 8. Was my initial read on it as well.

[wlaxphan20]

You also have the human element of players. Yeah, 35 took her eyes off the ball, was thinking about next move etc.
I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.
Gilbert should have been yellowed on the shot/play that hit Goodale and been on the bench in OT
I don't think anyone choked. Lacrosse is a game of runs and things happen fast. SU didn't give up a 10 goal lead. It's a one goal OOC game. Move on. I said in another thread, that game was a mess, not surprised it ended in a mess.
The goalie situation needs to be resolved if they are to reach their potential. IMO. KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

Watching the game I was pretty sure the call was on 24, but 35 was charged for the foul in the live stats (which we all know can be subject to accuracy) but the official made the call for blocking. I do agree with you on KT needing to calm them down. To me, it felt like both teams played the entire 60+ mins like it was the last 2 minutes of the game. While I loved the intensity, it definitely didn't feel controlled. Neither team played a complete game.

I think it was clear very early on in this game that the officials were making inconsistent and questionable calls. In all games, but especially in games with officiating like that, "controlling the controllables" is paramount or else you run a higher risk of the outcome being decided by the officials. I don't think either team did a good job of that. I agree with you again, definitely messy. And while that SU turnover may have been a turning point in the game, there were probably at least 10 other similar situations (silly turnovers or fouls) that happened earlier in the game that lead to the game being that close and ultimately decided by officials. How can you pin it on one person without looking at all the other mistakes that lead up to that point? It was a team loss. Bright points - I thought SU made some good in-game adjustments on the draw and on attack & it was really nice to see EH have a game like that.

[Brownlax]

You also have the human element of players. Yeah, 35 took her eyes off the ball, was thinking about next move etc.
I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.
Gilbert should have been yellowed on the shot/play that hit Goodale and been on the bench in OT
I don't think anyone choked. Lacrosse is a game of runs and things happen fast. SU didn't give up a 10 goal lead. It's a one goal OOC game. Move on. I said in another thread, that game was a mess, not surprised it ended in a mess.
The goalie situation needs to be resolved if they are to reach their potential. IMO. KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

Watching the game I was pretty sure the call was on 24, but 35 was charged for the foul in the live stats (which we all know can be subject to accuracy) but the official made the call for blocking. I do agree with you on KT needing to calm them down. To me, it felt like both teams played the entire 60+ mins like it was the last 2 minutes of the game. While I loved the intensity, it definitely didn't feel controlled. Neither team played a complete game.

I think it was clear very early on in this game that the officials were making inconsistent and questionable calls. In all games, but especially in games with officiating like that, "controlling the controllables" is paramount or else you run a higher risk of the outcome being decided by the officials. I don't think either team did a good job of that. I agree with you again, definitely messy. And while that SU turnover may have been a turning point in the game, there were probably at least 10 other similar situations (silly turnovers or fouls) that happened earlier in the game that lead to the game being that close and ultimately decided by officials. How can you pin it on one person without looking at all the other mistakes that lead up to that point? It was a team loss. Bright points - I thought SU made some good in-game adjustments on the draw and on attack & it was really nice to see EH have a game like that.

Some of the key differences in the game that went to Northwestern - Draw Controls, Saves, Clears and Penalties.

[wlaxphan20]

You also have the human element of players. Yeah, 35 took her eyes off the ball, was thinking about next move etc.
I also think the call was on 35 - she ran NU player over- not 24. The "hip check" is being exaggerated.
Gilbert should have been yellowed on the shot/play that hit Goodale and been on the bench in OT
I don't think anyone choked. Lacrosse is a game of runs and things happen fast. SU didn't give up a 10 goal lead. It's a one goal OOC game. Move on. I said in another thread, that game was a mess, not surprised it ended in a mess.
The goalie situation needs to be resolved if they are to reach their potential. IMO. KT also needs to get them all to calm down. Several examples of poor execution in that game.

Watching the game I was pretty sure the call was on 24, but 35 was charged for the foul in the live stats (which we all know can be subject to accuracy) but the official made the call for blocking. I do agree with you on KT needing to calm them down. To me, it felt like both teams played the entire 60+ mins like it was the last 2 minutes of the game. While I loved the intensity, it definitely didn't feel controlled. Neither team played a complete game.

I think it was clear very early on in this game that the officials were making inconsistent and questionable calls. In all games, but especially in games with officiating like that, "controlling the controllables" is paramount or else you run a higher risk of the outcome being decided by the officials. I don't think either team did a good job of that. I agree with you again, definitely messy. And while that SU turnover may have been a turning point in the game, there were probably at least 10 other similar situations (silly turnovers or fouls) that happened earlier in the game that lead to the game being that close and ultimately decided by officials. How can you pin it on one person without looking at all the other mistakes that lead up to that point? It was a team loss. Bright points - I thought SU made some good in-game adjustments on the draw and on attack & it was really nice to see EH have a game like that.

Some of the key differences in the game that went to Northwestern - Draw Controls, Saves, Clears and Penalties.

Yes I agree. I felt NU definitely won the first half of that game, but seriously dropped off in the 3rd quarter. I don’t know why they kept pressing out on defense…they were just getting picked apart. They weren’t creating good looks or finishing opportunities on attack either in the 3rd.

[tothedraw]

A rookie head coach trying to rein in a team known for fast paced somewhat chaotic play makes sense. NU's frenetic pace does not.
Any input from people who pay more attention to NU ?

[Lax101]

I'm struggling with how a super talented team like Cuse squanders 3 point leaders with only minutes to play in back to back games against Top 10 opponents. Especially when they were in complete control of both games and had demonstrated for 55+ minutes that they were the much better team. I know it is a combination of factors but what does everyone think the primary issues are. To make it even harder to figure out, I personally think they are much better than both teams. If they played each team 10 times I think they win at least 8. Is it discipline, decision making, leadership, execution, coaching, goal keeping ...