LaxPower Back-Up Stick

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:50 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:48 pm That's why I said comparing this to my criticism of failed Iraq & Iran decisions was an apples to hand grenades analogy.

I'm comparing how you and I react to two separate policies we disagree with strongly. It has NOTHING to do with what the policies are. It's about rational criticism of policies. I picked the Iraq withdrawal for two reasons.

1. You had page after page on how that decision was wrong, and how it was affected the ME.

2. Your reasoning and our lengthy discussion changed my mind on the matter.

I was under the impression that these kinds of discussions were two way streets, and you could be persuaded to opposing views if the reasoning was solid. It's become apparent that that is perhaps not the case. THAT is what I'm reacting to here. I'm not trying to say trade is the same as war. That said, the two are interlinked....a lesson we may learn the hard way with China.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:48 pm Plus, your equating them to a trade dispute trivializes the loss of life, limb & destruction wrought by those flawed decisions.
Personally, I find the comparison disgusting.

How many times have I told you that suicides among farmers are up? This is not a game, and has real consequences.

That said, obviously I understand that war and trade are different.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:48 pm We still don't know how the trade dispute with China will play out & what the impact will be (deleted short term) long term.

Corrected it for you. We 100% know what the impact will be short term. It's happening in real time. That's the part I'm trying, in vain, to relay to you. For whatever reason, you don't want to hear it, and don't want to hear that with a little effort, Trump can mitigate the short term economic damage, thereby strengthening our negotiating position.

Have you been reading what China has been doing over the past few weeks to mitigate economic damage? If you haven't, you ought to. They are turtling up. We'd be wise to get off our *sses and help Americans before more pointless damage is done.

It's not just our trade dispute with China.
There are other factors contributing to the current plight of our farmers.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/08/20/fa ... trade-war/

Yes. Of course. Just as there are other factors contributing to the the situation in the Middle East other than US involvement.

That doesn't mean that Trump and Obama don't need to be thoughtful about how they execute their policies.....

Saw this clip of ex DEA/laxer. It also ties in with our conversations on the drug flow of our southern border. I know MDlaxfan has often argued that China is where much of our fentanyl comes from via mail. I also had discussion with afan on drug flow on our southern border AND in this thread about our current trade battle with China.

What if? and this is pure speculation and an attempt on my part to tie these two issues together as a 'safety' issue our country is working on. Maybe the dirty little secret that 'is not' in the discussion on news, is that the details of the china trade deal are much more about them AND mexico working together in the drug and money laundering beusiness....against the US?

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:25 am Saw this clip of ex DEA/laxer. It also ties in with our conversations on the drug flow of our southern border. I know MDlaxfan has often argued that China is where much of our fentanyl comes from via mail. I also had discussion with afan on drug flow on our southern border AND in this thread about our current trade battle with China.

What if? and this is pure speculation and an attempt on my part to tie these two issues together as a 'safety' issue our country is working on. Maybe the dirty little secret that 'is not' in the discussion on news, is that the details of the china trade deal are much more about them AND mexico working together in the drug and money laundering beusiness....against the US?

Interesting conflation.

Certainly we have a tragedy with drugs. It's certainly a 'safety' issue.
As I have a family member who died of a heroin/fentanyl overdoes this past spring, I'm a bit sensitive to its reality.

The analysis has been that illegal fentanyl (there is some legit use of fentanyl) mostly comes in via mail. It's simply the easiest, safest, least expensive way to do it. But sure, if that was somehow interdicted, the bad actors would find another way, whether by southern border or in cargo shipping. The latter is far more likely as fentanyl is so dense and could be easily hidden.

I don't buy in the slightest that either Mexico or China has an adversarial interest in shipping drugs to the US. But there are indeed economic interests, various forms of corruption, etc that plague their gov't's just as it does ours. Big money.

So, sure, getting China and Mexico to do more to combat the drug dealers should always be an objective. But we sure as heck don't appear to be treating them as allies in such efforts. And this isn't a situation where the 'stick' will actually work in influencing resource allocation.

I'm a firm believer that the only way to actually 'win' the drug war is through decriminalization (not the same as 'legalization'). Take the big money out of the traffic, prosecute the black market, but the emphasis would be on destroying their profit incentive to develop and exploit 'markets'. Re-allocate resources to usage prevention and addiction support and away from policing and jails. Violence would plummet.

From CNBC's Josh Brown today on the Trade War: "Trump thinks that Xi can't wait him out for 17 months? It's hilarious. Of course they can."


Markets are catching on to the over the top obviousness of this statement. Guard your 401, old salt.

Don't say I didn't tell you folks.

some hopeful news out of Hong Kong

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:41 pm From CNBC's Josh Brown today on the Trade War: "Trump thinks that Xi can't wait him out for 17 months? It's hilarious. Of course they can."


Markets are catching on to the over the top obviousness of this statement. Guard your 401, old salt.

Don't say I didn't tell you folks.

Somedays I wonder if the WH aides just call a Chinese Restaurant down the street and tell him that he is talking to Xi. In the end, he thinks it's working because he ends up with fried rice and egg rolls.

The thing I keep laughing about is that I'm just some stupid punk distiller. Now why can I figure all this out with no trouble whatsoever, yet millions of Republican voters and policy wonks can't?

At what point do full grown American adults realize that their over the top biases are costing them billions of dollars?

We are about to add coal miner's to the Welfare Roll, just like the Whining Farmers.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/75724555 ... oming-town

o d will buy their votes with billions of taxpapers money.

deleted. Double post

Case in point for Old Salt, and his belief the Trump is Buchanan reborn:

CNBC HOST: People forget that, Sam, that if Trump said, all right, everybody over there remove your tariffs, we'll remove all of ours, we would do it.

SAM ZELL: Sure, in a minute


This is moving into "be careful what you ask for" territory......


They're going to talk again. One last chance for Trump to get his fake victory for his fanbase.

I am not optimistic. And I have yet to hear of one single plan to help American businesses find new buyers and new supply chains. Still.

Unbelievable.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... years.html

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:39 pm Case in point for Old Salt, and his belief the Trump is Buchanan reborn:

CNBC HOST: People forget that, Sam, that if Trump said, all right, everybody over there remove your tariffs, we'll remove all of ours, we would do it.

SAM ZELL: Sure, in a minute

This is moving into "be careful what you ask for" territory......

They're going to talk again. One last chance for Trump to get his fake victory for his fanbase.

I am not optimistic. And I have yet to hear of one single plan to help American businesses find new buyers and new supply chains. Still.

Unbelievable.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... years.html

Trump's saying that "in principle" & you know it. Keep spinning the US exporters' free trade fairy tale.
What % of the US public do you think is aware of the trade barriers US exporters face compared to those we erect ?
Every nation has tariffs &/or protectionist regulations of some sort to protect & advantage their domestic producers.

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:19 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:39 pm Case in point for Old Salt, and his belief the Trump is Buchanan reborn:

CNBC HOST: People forget that, Sam, that if Trump said, all right, everybody over there remove your tariffs, we'll remove all of ours, we would do it.

SAM ZELL: Sure, in a minute

This is moving into "be careful what you ask for" territory......

They're going to talk again. One last chance for Trump to get his fake victory for his fanbase.

I am not optimistic. And I have yet to hear of one single plan to help American businesses find new buyers and new supply chains. Still.

Unbelievable.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... years.html

Trump's saying that "in principle" & you know it. Keep spinning the US exporters' free trade fairy tale.
Every nation has tariffs &/or protectionist regulations of some sort to protect & advantage their domestic producers.

"Tariff Terrorism"...Zell lost me when he said the last 50 years post WWII (actually 70+ years) has been "disastrous for the US"...This whining is really incredible.

Over the past 50 years, have you lived in Japan or the EU & tried to purchase US goods ?

If not, you haven't experienced the "tariff terrorism" they reference.

Too busy defending Trump to pay attention, for even one second, to what I'm trying to tell you, old salt.

Trump isn't even SUGGESTING that we do what you are selling in terms of the Perot or Buchanan protective Trade policy. You made that idea up to make yourself feel better about what Trump is doing. I'm trying to tell you that Trump can easily sign a deal that will make things worse for American workers, yet opens up, for example, more car sales in China.

But you don't want to hear it, and will stick to your made up whole cloth "understanding" of what Trump is trying to do with China.

BTW, notice the latest numbers? Our trade deficit with China is getting worse by the day.


Oh no! I said something bad about the effects of Trump policy! Quick! Make up some nonsense as to why that's just fine!

The ridiculous thing about this discussion is that if it were Obama in charge today? You'd be right there with me in this discussion. Instead? "La, la, la....I can't hear yooooooou!!"

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:33 pm Over the past 50 years, have you lived in Japan or the EU & tried to purchase US goods ?

If not, you haven't experienced the "tariff terrorism" they reference.

Boy it's been SO AWFUL being an American in my lifetime...boo bloody hoo, salty.

We could have a reasonable discussion about how best to address world trade dynamics, but this whining about how awful it is to be an American is just batsh-t crazy.

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:33 pm Too busy defending Trump to pay attention, for even one second, to what I'm trying to tell you, old salt.

Trump isn't even SUGGESTING that we do what you are selling in terms of the Perot or Buchanan protective Trade policy. You made that idea up to make yourself feel better about what Trump is doing. I'm trying to tell you that Trump can easily sign a deal that will make things worse for American workers, yet opens up, for example, more car sales in China.

But you don't want to hear it, and will stick to your made up whole cloth "understanding" of what Trump is trying to do with China.

BTW, notice the latest numbers? Our trade deficit with China is getting worse by the day.

Oh no! I said something bad about the effects of Trump policy! Quick! Make up some nonsense as to why that's just fine!

The ridiculous thing about this discussion is that if it were Obama in charge today? You'd be right there with me in this discussion. Instead? "La, la, la....I can't hear yooooooou!!"

Of course our trade deficit with China is getting worse. The only way to prevent that would be to freeze all trade with China.
Trump is trying to limit further damage going forward. Nobody can undo all that's been done over the past 3-4 decades.
Trump's trying to limit the pendulum swing & protect domestic sectors, just like Japan, the EU & other 1st world economies do.
Call me when we're as much of an "open market" as Japan or the EU.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:38 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:33 pm Over the past 50 years, have you lived in Japan or the EU & tried to purchase US goods ?

If not, you haven't experienced the "tariff terrorism" they reference.

Boy it's been SO AWFUL being an American in my lifetime...boo bloody hoo, salty.

We could have a reasonable discussion about how best to address world trade dynamics, but this whining about how awful it is to be an American is just batsh-t crazy.

Show me other countries which have been impacted like the US by the Walmarts & other big box mega stores, selling low quality Chinese junk.
Show me the abandoned town center or strip mall storefronts in Japan or Germany.
Their governments protected their manufacturers & small retailers. Ours did not.

We wanted those cheap goods and were willing to go in to debt as a nation.

foreverlax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:52 pm We wanted those cheap goods and were willing to go in to debt as a nation.

Did we ? Who speaks for "we" ? We buy what's readily available.