Conservatives and Liberals

[holmes435]

The projection is amazing. Identity politics are in reality Republicans saying immigrants are coming to take white people's identity - taking their jobs, raping their women, murdering people and muddying the bloodline with miscegenation. He's arguing D's support "group on group" competition when Republicans are literally fomenting group on group competition with white Christians against Jews and Muslims of varying color degrees - i.e. our "American Identity" is in peril.

He's complaining about Pure Democracy, where 51% can rule over the 49% and preserving the EC, and yet the electoral college allows a minority of voters to rule over a higher percentage of voters. 46.1% of voters ruling over 48.2% in the last election.

He says that D's are promising Utopia when the literal R slogan is "Make America Great Again". The City on the Hill...

This dude is bonkers. But unfortunately very effective. The D's are imperfect, including bad campaigning - this is one of their weaknesses, trying to compete with willful (or ignorant) deception vs their good intentions. They are bad at projecting powerful, decisive leadership. Much easier to do when you're claiming to be attacked.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, there goes my respect for that man.

I have ZERO doubt that this is how you and your fellow Republicans think you are. Well, minus the cape and the ability to leap over tall buildings in a single bound.

Never did have a lot of respect for him. Just one more tough guy who thinks bullets and bombs solve all problems.

Social media star. What a waste of time.

[holmes435]

Well, there goes my respect for that man.

I have ZERO doubt that this is how you and your fellow Republicans think you are. Well, minus the cape and the ability to leap over tall buildings in a single bound.

Never did have a lot of respect for him. Just one more tough guy who thinks bullets and bombs solve all problems.

Social media star. What a waste of time.

Just wait, we'll elect a Hollywood actor or god forbid a reality TV star as president sometime. Just imagine the conniptions the right will have when that happens.

[youthathletics]

Sounds like he is correct, based on the responses.

[jhu72]

I had wondered about this. Not surprised even a little bit that Great Britain has its own deplorables.

[holmes435]

I had wondered about this. Not surprised even a little bit that Great Britain has its own deplorables.

Here's an interesting look at how various media outlets covered Kate vs. Meghan on similar topics. Pretty stark contrasts.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/el ... FquKbWwUmA

[Kismet]

Say whatever you want about bleeding heart liberal twerps and Justin Trudeau has been a poster child for this stereotype and, at times, with cause.
BUT, this is what an EMPATHETIC LEADER looks like and does in the face of a terrible tragedy for its country's citizens (and some of these victims are not citizens but were permanent residents)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/worl ... ctims.html

"Canada Offers Compensation to Families of Victims of Plane Downed in Iran

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that the payments to Canadian families of victims do not absolve Iran from providing compensation.

offer payments to relatives of the dozens of Canadian citizens and permanent residents killed when a Ukrainian airliner was downed by missiles launched by Iranian forces.

At a news conference on Friday, Mr. Trudeau said the payments are an interim measure and that Canada will not abandon its efforts to make Iran provide substantial compensation to the families of the victims.

He said that Iran bears full responsibility for the incident.

“I want to be clear: we expect Iran to compensate these families,” Mr. Trudeau said. “But I have met them, they can’t wait weeks. They need support now.”

Canada will provide each of the families with 25,000 Canadian dollars, about $19,000, to cover the cost of funerals and travel. The prime minister said that 57 of the victims were Canadian citizens and another 29 were permanent residents of the country.

Canada does not have diplomatic relations with Iran and relies on Italy as its representative there. Members of Canada’s Transportation Safety Board are participating in the investigation that Iran is leading into the downing.

For three days, Iran claimed that the airplane, Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752, had crashed due to mechanical problems, despite the findings of various intelligence services that the plane was shot down. Iran then reversed its denial, admitting that a member of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps — a powerful, hard-line military force — mistook the plane for a cruise missile.

Videos verified by The New York Times indicate that two missiles struck the airliner before it crashed.

In the week since the disaster, Mr. Trudeau and several senior members of his cabinet have been crisscrossing the country to meet with relatives of the victims and attend public vigils.

The prime minister has stayed out of a growing debate within the country over whether President Trump shares some of the responsibility for the deaths by creating a volatile situation in Iran that some argue led to the downing.

Canada expects the first remains of victims to arrive soon, Mr. Trudeau said. He also urged Iran to send the damaged cockpit voice and flight data recorders from the airliner to France for downloading and analysis."

[Peter Brown]

I broke my rule of never discussing Trump at a dinner party. And boy am I glad I did. Last night, a friend schooled me on why Trump causes liberals to think all Republicans are racists/sexists/immoral etc, and why Trump causes conservatives to think Democrats are pollyannish hysterics who overreact to every Trump belch.

His take (and I concur): Democrats see politicians as their North Star, a guiding light helping them to feel safe in an unsafe world. Republicans look at politicians as scum, undeserved of praise let alone idolatry; they look at politicians as wannabe fascists (ironic).

Trump comes along and Republicans think he’s hilarious. They laugh at his rallies, they agree when he says Schiff etc are corrupt; they mock the media (because it’s 99% Democrats); the media whines (look at Acosta!). Therefore All D’s are weaklings!

Democrats recoil in horror, seeing a vulgar person like Trump (a crook!) making fun of their life hero’s. He says the quiet part loud; Maxine is a crook; Hillary is a crook; Mitt was useless. The R’s are going to put us in internment camps! Therefore all R’s are bad people.

So when I read comments like DocB or a fan who claim all Republicans are Trump lovers, or alternately when I laugh at the Democrats’ hysteria of whatever the days news is, it sort of makes more sense now.

[seacoaster]

PB, tell us about Schiff’s “corruption.” Try using facts that have some corroboration.

[Peter Brown]

PB, tell us about Schiff’s “corruption.” Try using facts that have some corroboration.

I didn’t say Schiff is corrupt. I said when Trump says it, R’s nod their heads. R’s assume politicians are corrupt. D’s idolize politicians.

[a fan]

I have NO doubt you believe this.

When asked by Gallup in 2019, guess who was Republican voters most admired living man?

[ToastDunk]

I broke my rule of never discussing Trump at a dinner party. And boy am I glad I did. Last night, a friend schooled me on why Trump causes liberals to think all Republicans are racists/sexists/immoral etc, and why Trump causes conservatives to think Democrats are pollyannish hysterics who overreact to every Trump belch.

His take (and I concur): Democrats see politicians as their North Star, a guiding light helping them to feel safe in an unsafe world. Republicans look at politicians as scum, undeserved of praise let alone idolatry; they look at politicians as wannabe fascists (ironic).

Trump comes along and Republicans think he’s hilarious. They laugh at his rallies, they agree when he says Schiff etc are corrupt; they mock the media (because it’s 99% Democrats); the media whines (look at Acosta!). Therefore All D’s are weaklings!

Democrats recoil in horror, seeing a vulgar person like Trump (a crook!) making fun of their life hero’s. He says the quiet part loud; Maxine is a crook; Hillary is a crook; Mitt was useless. The R’s are going to put us in internment camps! Therefore all R’s are bad people.

So when I read comments like DocB or a fan who claim all Republicans are Trump lovers, or alternately when I laugh at the Democrats’ hysteria of whatever the days news is, it sort of makes more sense now.

And what if your friends take on Democrats and Republicans is just plain wrong?

[seacoaster]

PB, tell us about Schiff’s “corruption.” Try using facts that have some corroboration.

I didn’t say Schiff is corrupt. I said when Trump says it, R’s nod their heads. R’s assume politicians are corrupt. D’s idolize politicians.

Respectfully, these are the sorts of generalizations -- all Rs believe X, and all D's believe Y -- that only suggest to me that you are one of the least critical thinkers and observers on this board. "D's [sic] idolize politicians." Sorry, stupid. People and politics are nuanced and difficult, and it simply doesn't help to cut across that complexity with generalizations that are false. But that appears to be your manner of working out complicated things -- make limited, un-nuanced categories in order to shoehorn people and political beliefs into a construct that fits your predisposed thinking.

I work with dozens of Republicans who don't fit any of the characteristics with which you and this friend of yours regale each other. No Democrats I know idolize politicians; most if not all know only too well how frail and disappointing most politicians are. Your world is too facile.

Trump's actions, conduct and policy choices cause people to question the Republican party for good and obvious reasons, which a fan and MDLaxfan and others have canvassed convincingly and often. Trump's obvious and oft-displayed character flaws and narrow-mindedness -- combined with the devoted flock he has at his campaign events -- are things that baffle most of us. Mocking disabled people. Offering the opinion that white nationalist organizations and members "very fine people." Calling career military men, trying earnestly to educate you to the complex world you inherited, "dopes and babies." Using the powers of the office for personal gain and employing adventurers and thugs to do the work. There is nothing D or R or Conservative or Liberal about this.

[ToastDunk]

PB, tell us about Schiff’s “corruption.” Try using facts that have some corroboration.

I didn’t say Schiff is corrupt. I said when Trump says it, R’s nod their heads. R’s assume politicians are corrupt. D’s idolize politicians.

Respectfully, these are the sorts of generalizations -- all Rs believe X, and all D's believe Y -- that only suggest to me that you are one of the least critical thinkers and observers on this board. "D's [sic] idolize politicians." Sorry, stupid. People and politics are nuanced and difficult, and it simply doesn't help to cut across that complexity with generalizations that are false. But that appears to be your manner of working out complicated things -- make limited, un-nuanced categories in order to shoehorn people and political beliefs into a construct that fits your predisposed thinking.

I work with dozens of Republicans who don't fit any of the characteristics with which you and this friend of yours regale each other. No Democrats I know idolize politicians; most if not all know only too well how frail and disappointing most politicians are. Your world is too facile.

Trump's actions, conduct and policy choices cause people to question the Republican party for good and obvious reasons, which a fan and MDLaxfan and others have canvassed convincingly and often. Trump's obvious and oft-displayed character flaws and narrow-mindedness -- combined with the devoted flock he has at his campaign events -- are things that baffle most of us. Mocking disabled people. Offering the opinion that white nationalist organizations and members "very fine people." Calling career military men, trying earnestly to educate you to the complex world you inherited, "dopes and babies." Using the powers of the office for personal gain and employing adventurers and thugs to do the work. There is nothing D or R or Conservative or Liberal about this.

Well put.

PB's admiration for Trump falls into one of two explanations IMHO.

A) He makes/has a lot of money and benefited greatly from the Trump tax cuts. Selfish yes, but he wouldn't be the first to take this position.

Or B) He, like Trump, sees the answers to some of the world's greatest challenges as simple. If only the people who came before him weren't so stupid none of these problems would exist.

[a fan]

PB's admiration for Trump falls into one of two explanations IMHO.

A) He makes/has a lot of money and benefited greatly from the Trump tax cuts. Selfish yes, but he wouldn't be the first to take this position.

He works for a company that charters planes. Gee, ya think business is up under Trump?

Anyone notice that CNBC is running ads lately for a yacht rental company, starting at $150K per week?

These guys are all the same. Pretend they are anti-government, while graduating from a State University every. single. time. And when you dig deeper into their wholly government subsidized lifestyle, out come the excuses as to why it's ok for him to get that, but bad for others. "Other people" are supposed to deal with the free market, while they get assistance----government schools, government airstrips, and on and on.

Or when Pete is confronted with all the government regulations that protect him? Out come the bizarre "reasons" as to why those regulations are ok "well, they knew those regulations are there"....but other regulations that protect "someone else's" interests are bad.

What it comes down to is self-centered selfishness, and we're dealing with millions of these guys. They have zero-----zero---- interest in cutting their own bennies and cash they get from the government. Yet they complain nonstop about the size of government. Trump blows another $2.7 Trillion on handouts and socialism.....are they livid? Hell no! Whatever keeps their own pockets lined, my man. Keep that party going at all costs, and F the consequence of paying almost a half a trillion dollars on mother F-ing interest because they're too selfish to care about what they are handing to the next generation.

And how do they square all this in their minds? Simple. They pay ZERO attention to what their party does while in power, and focus every ounce of energy on what the "other guys" are doing. It's why Pete is laughably bringing up Hillary Fing Clinton. Hey Pete! Hillary left public office and control over your life in 2015. Five f-ing years ago. She has NO power over your life. And yet you bring her up constantly. Why do you do that? Simple. So you don't have to bother paying any attention whatsoever to what your Republican leaders are doing with our government in real time.

So in your mind? Hillary is an equal to Trump. Some lady who is probably at pottery class right now is the same thing as the leader of the free world. We're dealing with denial on a mass scale.

Because in your world, if the Dems are bad, the R's must be good. I've said it dozens of times, but your dinner conversation nails it: you and your buddy thinks that when Trump "sticks it to the libs", that's the same thing as good governance. So you ignore everything and anything Trump actually does (things like not repeal and replace Obamacare, or not pass a single immigration reform bill), and focus, instead, on how mad Rachel Maddow is. Because you think it's neat when some pointless lady is mad....so who cares what Trump's actual policies are?

This is why Republicans are lost as a party. Their base's lives depend on government spending. This is why. every. single. time. Republicans get control of the purse in Congress.....spending explodes. But they get away with it because their voters are in such dazzling denial as to who butters their bread....so in their minds, all these massive spending increases either "don't count", or happen "because of the Democrats".

It's why McConnell bragged about bringing a billion dollars in socialism and handouts to his home State of Kentucky---a billion dollars to one single State, in one single spending bill. Because without that Federal money and socialism? All those rural citizens are royally F-ed economically. But they want---desperately----to pretend that they are putting food on the table because they are independent and hard working. Nope.

Remember when I asked Pete, three times now, how he thinks we can feed, educate, and provide health care to a 10 year old rural kid in Colorado without massive Federal handouts and socialism? Notice he STILL can't answer that question?

But oh yeah, the Dems are the guys bringing socialism and handouts to Americans. THEY are the problem.

[calourie]

I have NO doubt you believe this.

When asked by Gallup in 2019, guess who was Republican voters most admired living man?

Came across this article on fivethirtyeight.com, which I think fleshes out your Gallup question, fan:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/tr ... ing-shows/

Wrote up some additional comments that got erased when I took my dog out for a walk, but the essence of the comments was that I think the upcoming presidential election may very well end up being a referendum on how Independents feel about Trump and Trumpism. I say this in that almost everyone affiliated with either the D or R party has had their minds made up from the get go. I would add the caveat that If the Dems end up nominating a progressive like Lizzie, or an avowed socialist like Bernie I think the issue gets a bit more complicated for the Indies, but despite an emphatic Meh attitude toward socialism, in a world of binary choices I would opt for a toilet seat over Trump.

[a fan]

It's 2016 all over again. I'm not remotely thrilled with the Dem choices. I don't think any independent voter is.....

We're back to the spot-on campaign bumper sticker..... "Functioning Adult 2020".

[old salt]

Calling career military men, trying earnestly to educate you to the complex world you inherited, "dopes and babies."

The "military men" in that room had all been yelled at by drill instructors, upperclassmen, &/or other bombastic a-hole leaders, at various points in their careers. They can take it. Context matters, as does the substance of the critique. The senior military officer in the room completed his extended tour of duty, with distinction. His replacement was also in the room & has helped craft all of our military actions since, as was the current SecDef...apparently to the increased satisfaction of their CinC.

[Peter Brown]

PB's admiration for Trump falls into one of two explanations IMHO.

A) He makes/has a lot of money and benefited greatly from the Trump tax cuts. Selfish yes, but he wouldn't be the first to take this position.

He works for a company that charters planes. Gee, ya think business is up under Trump?

Anyone notice that CNBC is running ads lately for a yacht rental company, starting at $150K per week?

These guys are all the same. Pretend they are anti-government, while graduating from a State University every. single. time. And when you dig deeper into their wholly government subsidized lifestyle, out come the excuses as to why it's ok for him to get that, but bad for others. "Other people" are supposed to deal with the free market, while they get assistance----government schools, government airstrips, and on and on.

Or when Pete is confronted with all the government regulations that protect him? Out come the bizarre "reasons" as to why those regulations are ok "well, they knew those regulations are there"....but other regulations that protect "someone else's" interests are bad.

What it comes down to is self-centered selfishness, and we're dealing with millions of these guys. They have zero-----zero---- interest in cutting their own bennies and cash they get from the government. Yet they complain nonstop about the size of government. Trump blows another $2.7 Trillion on handouts and socialism.....are they livid? Hell no! Whatever keeps their own pockets lined, my man. Keep that party going at all costs, and F the consequence of paying almost a half a trillion dollars on mother F-ing interest because they're too selfish to care about what they are handing to the next generation.

And how do they square all this in their minds? Simple. They pay ZERO attention to what their party does while in power, and focus every ounce of energy on what the "other guys" are doing. It's why Pete is laughably bringing up Hillary Fing Clinton. Hey Pete! Hillary left public office and control over your life in 2015. Five f-ing years ago. She has NO power over your life. And yet you bring her up constantly. Why do you do that? Simple. So you don't have to bother paying any attention whatsoever to what your Republican leaders are doing with our government in real time.

So in your mind? Hillary is an equal to Trump. Some lady who is probably at pottery class right now is the same thing as the leader of the free world. We're dealing with denial on a mass scale.

Because in your world, if the Dems are bad, the R's must be good. I've said it dozens of times, but your dinner conversation nails it: you and your buddy thinks that when Trump "sticks it to the libs", that's the same thing as good governance. So you ignore everything and anything Trump actually does (things like not repeal and replace Obamacare, or not pass a single immigration reform bill), and focus, instead, on how mad Rachel Maddow is. Because you think it's neat when some pointless lady is mad....so who cares what Trump's actual policies are?

This is why Republicans are lost as a party. Their base's lives depend on government spending. This is why. every. single. time. Republicans get control of the purse in Congress.....spending explodes. But they get away with it because their voters are in such dazzling denial as to who butters their bread....so in their minds, all these massive spending increases either "don't count", or happen "because of the Democrats".

It's why McConnell bragged about bringing a billion dollars in socialism and handouts to his home State of Kentucky---a billion dollars to one single State, in one single spending bill. Because without that Federal money and socialism? All those rural citizens are royally F-ed economically. But they want---desperately----to pretend that they are putting food on the table because they are independent and hard working. Nope.

Remember when I asked Pete, three times now, how he thinks we can feed, educate, and provide health care to a 10 year old rural kid in Colorado without massive Federal handouts and socialism? Notice he STILL can't answer that question?

But oh yeah, the Dems are the guys bringing socialism and handouts to Americans. THEY are the problem.

Bewilderingly long post

Ok first I don’t work for a company that ‘charters planes’. Lol. I’m in the aviation industry; charter operators are a small piece of our client base. It’s both a big and small industry. The Clinton Fdn is well known in the charter world.

Second and really the only thing worth mentioning, collectivism is humankind’s worst cancer. Any policy promoting it should be thoroughly shot down. No aviation pun intended.

Third, I don’t think I fully understand the open question I gather you’ve posted 3x and has you upset. Is asking the government to help feed and clothe a poor rural kid in Colorado ‘socialism’? Yes by definition. Is it wrong? No it is just.

My admin shut off access to Fanlax (too much time?! ) so I’m relegated to my iPhone and it’s painful. Also I’m too embarrassed to ask him to release me.

[a fan]

Second and really the only thing worth mentioning, collectivism is humankind’s worst cancer. Any policy promoting it should be thoroughly shot down. No aviation pun intended.

Facepalm.

So you tell us that collectivism is bad in one paragraph.

Third, I don’t think I fully understand the open question I gather you’ve posted 3x and has you upset. Is asking the government to help feed and clothe a poor rural kid in Colorado ‘socialism’? Yes by definition. Is it wrong? No it is just.

And then in the next one you tell us that collective is not just good, it's just.

You're all over the place, and can't keep your beliefs straight.

Tell you what. Why don't you get this philosophy of yours straight and get back to us.



BTW, what I am asking is: using free market capitalism ONLY, figure out a way to get that 10 year old rural Colorado fed, educated, and employed by the time he reaches 18.

What I am illustrating to you is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a 1st world nation without socialism and Federal subsidies. It's why every single 1st world nation....without exception....has social programs, handouts, subsidies, and some form of socialism.

What you and your buddies at FoxNation have been telling everyone is the opposite. That free market is the only answer, and socialism is the devil.

Which is not only demonstrably a lie, it's DANGEROUS to tell Americans this, because it is making guys like you ungovernable.

If I'm your representative in Congress, and you tell me socialism is the devil? I'm going to vote to dismantle anything that is an example of socialism. So that means defunding public schools, defunding public parks, defunding public Universities, and defunding public hospitals.

And guess what? That's precisely what's happening not just Federally, but in many States as well.

So pull it together, figure out what your stance is, and get back to us....