Johns Hopkins 2022

[DocBarrister]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

First, Petro verbals - undeniably early - almost always showed up on campus. Again, read carefully - that does not mean I am saying Petro got all the recruits he wanted - I am saying when IL and TX's Recruting Rundown used to give a list of Hopkisn verbals 2-3 years before they could be admittted - they still showed up. I am sure Petro's good but nobody's that good to successfully predict academic performance for 12-15 people on an annual basis and have them all turn out to be suitable to RD from his academic standpoint

Second, I doubt Milliman would sign up for 5 years after being told his recruits had to make Hopkins standard admission criteria - I wouldn't

Third, I admit if I read of a Hopkins verbal I will spend 3-5 minutes looking at the invariable Youtube highlight video where the recruit often posts some level of academic performance - most often his current GPA. I have seen recent GPAs that would cleearly not make the standard cut at Hopkins there are several that would but there are some that would not.

Know a fine young student who had straight A’s, 99th percentile on SATs, and a boatload of high school science research experience who got waitlisted at Hopkins.

Without some “help”, Hopkins would probably have maybe one or two players (if that) on the lacrosse team.

DocBarrister

[HopFan16]

The weather is supposed to be really bad this Saturday. Too bad. I was looking forward to this game.

The game is on Sunday, folks.

And of course admissions are eased for D1 lacrosse recruits. Many of them are very good students, and the staff is not going to bring in a kid whom they think won't survive academically at Hopkins, but only a small fraction of them would be able to get into the school without lacrosse. Now it may be the case that lax admissions are less eased than they were 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean they aren't eased at all.

[steel_hop]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

I was told in the past for non-lacrosse sports that you basically had to hit collective numbers for an entire class. So if you wanted a kid that was below par on some level, you'd have to take a kid with really great numbers. That isn't saying kid with completely substandard numbers could get in (they wouldn't) only that there was some leeway on it if you had another kid in the class with great numbers balance out the kid with slightly lower numbers. I have no idea if it is still the same. I doubt it.

Several of my roommates wouldn't have been at Hopkins but for playing football. One proudly admitted that just missed breaking 4 digits on his SATs. You can say that is awful and can't believe he went got into Hopkins. But he worked his butt off at Hopkins, graduated with high honors and is now a renowned MD in his field. I will fully admit applying now is a completely different envrionment.

[44WeWantMore]

Orthopedics?

Back in the day, if you were a candidate for all-everything, Chic could get pretty far down the SAT list, especially if you came from a blue-blooded Baltimore Prep school.

[nyjay]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

I was told in the past for non-lacrosse sports that you basically had to hit collective numbers for an entire class. So if you wanted a kid that was below par on some level, you'd have to take a kid with really great numbers. That isn't saying kid with completely substandard numbers could get in (they wouldn't) only that there was some leeway on it if you had another kid in the class with great numbers balance out the kid with slightly lower numbers. I have no idea if it is still the same. I doubt it.

Several of my roommates wouldn't have been at Hopkins but for playing football. One proudly admitted that just missed breaking 4 digits on his SATs. You can say that is awful and can't believe he went got into Hopkins. But he worked his butt off at Hopkins, graduated with high honors and is now a renowned MD in his field. I will fully admit applying now is a completely different envrionment.

Personally, I think the whole game in college admissions offices right now is an attempt to get away from numbers. The schools love the "test optional" model that's come with Covid. They seem to prefer the "holistic" model of admissions, rather than a GPA/SAT based grid. Given the extent of grade inflation in HS, the colleges end up with a lot of kids who have very good grades and otherwise look like fine candidates. Way more than they can admit. And so the key to getting in seems to be having an extra something else to separate themselves. Being a recruited athlete is definitely one of those things'. So I wouldn't say that Hop "lowers standards" now all that much because the "standards" these days are not as objective as they used to be. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority of the team wouldn't have gotten into Hop if they didn't play lacrosse.

[Sagittarius A*]

The weather is supposed to be really bad this Saturday. Too bad. I was looking forward to this game.

The game is on Sunday, folks.

You're right! Thanks!

[DocBarrister]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

I was told in the past for non-lacrosse sports that you basically had to hit collective numbers for an entire class. So if you wanted a kid that was below par on some level, you'd have to take a kid with really great numbers. That isn't saying kid with completely substandard numbers could get in (they wouldn't) only that there was some leeway on it if you had another kid in the class with great numbers balance out the kid with slightly lower numbers. I have no idea if it is still the same. I doubt it.

Several of my roommates wouldn't have been at Hopkins but for playing football. One proudly admitted that just missed breaking 4 digits on his SATs. You can say that is awful and can't believe he went got into Hopkins. But he worked his butt off at Hopkins, graduated with high honors and is now a renowned MD in his field. I will fully admit applying now is a completely different envrionment.

Personally, I think the whole game in college admissions offices right now is an attempt to get away from numbers. The schools love the "test optional" model that's come with Covid. They seem to prefer the "holistic" model of admissions, rather than a GPA/SAT based grid. Given the extent of grade inflation in HS, the colleges end up with a lot of kids who have very good grades and otherwise look like fine candidates. Way more than they can admit. And so the key to getting in seems to be having an extra something else to separate themselves. Being a recruited athlete is definitely one of those things'. So I wouldn't say that Hop "lowers standards" now all that much because the "standards" these days are not as objective as they used to be. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority of the team wouldn't have gotten into Hop if they didn't play lacrosse.

“Yield” is also a big issue. That’s the percentage of admitted students who choose to enroll at Hopkins. Hopkins has steadily moved towards admitting more early decision applicants, which improves the yield and ultimately lowers the admission rate (important for the all-important U.S. News & World Report rankings). Definitely a little easier to get in early decision. I’m sure all the recruited lacrosse players are admitted through the early decision process.

DocBarrister

[1766]

If JHU doesn't have extremely relaxed admissions standards, that's going to be hard to compete for recruits over the long haul. There isn't a B1G or Acc school that has those issues.

I can't imagine that's an issue at JHU either.

[MDlaxfan76]

MdLaxFan/HopFan16

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I assume you're not serious.

I've been enjoying this discussion. It seems that at least few folks think it's remotely possible that Hop doesn't have dramatically different admissions standards for the D1 sports versus general admissions.

And that's indeed ridiculous.

The D3 sports have lower overall academic # standards than the non-athlete pool. Not a heck of a lot lower, but lower. Very much akin to the differential one would find at a NESCAC or Ivy, or, on a relative basis the difference between in-state and out of state at many public universities. It's different, and everyone knows it. And yes, there's a balancing in any class of recruits and across sports, not unlike the AI at Ivies, wherein some lower #'s are made up for by academically high achieving admits. Coaches tend to use the lower spots for their most contested recruits, layering some higher performers to allow them to hit whatever target admissions demands overall. In recent years, many D3 coaches at Hop have complained that their targets are really challenging to meet. But look at the majors these kids are taking and you can see that they're not shying away from the most challenging. Contrast that with the D1 majors...

The D1 sports at Hop (and most places) are a significant notch less concerned still with academic #'s, the only real constraint is the extent to which a D1 student-athlete can be expected to survive Hopkin's academic rigors. And it would be fair to say that it's considerably harder today for an unmotivated or under prepared student to 'hide' than it was in yesteryear...fewer 'gut' courses. So, that's a consideration for a coach...don't want to lose kids to hitting the wall academically.

However the comment about admission requirements being viewed more holistically rather than just the academic numbers is also true, indeed to some extent that's always been the case. But particularly standardized testing is being deemphasized as a less important predictor of future success than a more complex analysis weighting other factors. That's a good thing, overall, IMO.

Final point, the women's lax program seems to have a bit more pressure on academic #'s than the men's. Not as much as the D3 sports, but tougher than the men's.

Bottomline, like Ivies, Hopkins can and should use its academic charms to attract kids who actually want to study hard in an environment full of really bright fellow students. Can't be afraid to compete on that playing field too. That said, Hop has plenty of room in its recruiting aperture to bring in most any kid they want...just gotta keep him in school.

My hunch is that, as many lax alums can attest, most guys manage to succeed at pretty darn good clip. It's always been a quite competitive bunch of animals, whether on or off the field.

[Ruffled_Feathers]

Every college admissions office is tasked with "building a class" not so much letting in every qualified person that applies. Part of class building is admitting folks that add to campus life in ways other than getting straight As in the classroom. That's not to say grades don't matter at all, but for the most part we aren't talking about needing to relax academics to the level of Big State U basketball/football program where you've got stories about star athletes that can barely read. "Lacrosse prodigy" doesn't buy you as much rope in high school as being a star in a proper revenue sport does.

[1766]

Every college admissions office is tasked with "building a class" not so much letting in every qualified person that applies. Part of class building is admitting folks that add to campus life in ways other than getting straight As in the classroom. That's not to say grades don't matter at all, but for the most part we aren't talking about needing to relax academics to the level of Big State U basketball/football program where you've got stories about star athletes that can barely read. "Lacrosse prodigy" doesn't buy you as much rope in high school as being a star in a proper revenue sport does.

My understanding is most schools revenue sport athletes are held to nothing more than the NCAA standards. Other sports have some number of those slots available but not all. If a coach at one of those schools wants you, and you meet the minimum standard, you are getting in.

[nyjay]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

I was told in the past for non-lacrosse sports that you basically had to hit collective numbers for an entire class. So if you wanted a kid that was below par on some level, you'd have to take a kid with really great numbers. That isn't saying kid with completely substandard numbers could get in (they wouldn't) only that there was some leeway on it if you had another kid in the class with great numbers balance out the kid with slightly lower numbers. I have no idea if it is still the same. I doubt it.

Several of my roommates wouldn't have been at Hopkins but for playing football. One proudly admitted that just missed breaking 4 digits on his SATs. You can say that is awful and can't believe he went got into Hopkins. But he worked his butt off at Hopkins, graduated with high honors and is now a renowned MD in his field. I will fully admit applying now is a completely different envrionment.

Personally, I think the whole game in college admissions offices right now is an attempt to get away from numbers. The schools love the "test optional" model that's come with Covid. They seem to prefer the "holistic" model of admissions, rather than a GPA/SAT based grid. Given the extent of grade inflation in HS, the colleges end up with a lot of kids who have very good grades and otherwise look like fine candidates. Way more than they can admit. And so the key to getting in seems to be having an extra something else to separate themselves. Being a recruited athlete is definitely one of those things'. So I wouldn't say that Hop "lowers standards" now all that much because the "standards" these days are not as objective as they used to be. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority of the team wouldn't have gotten into Hop if they didn't play lacrosse.

“Yield” is also a big issue. That’s the percentage of admitted students who choose to enroll at Hopkins. Hopkins has steadily moved towards admitting more early decision applicants, which improves the yield and ultimately lowers the admission rate (important for the all-important U.S. News & World Report rankings). Definitely a little easier to get in early decision. I’m sure all the recruited lacrosse players are admitted through the early decision process.

DocBarrister

100% correct. If you look at the "yield" for HPY + Stanford it's through the roof, which is because those schools make the true superstars (i.e. the ones who back in the day would have applied to and gotten into all of those schools) pick one through the ED process, which is a binding agreement on the student (if you get in, you agree to come and withdraw any other applications). These schools fill an enormous percentage of the classes through the ED process.

[44WeWantMore]

Does Hopkins still ease admission criteria for some lax players or are they held to the same admission criteria?

I've relayed this story before but I was told by a very respected Hopkins coach in another sport a few years ago that lacrosse was the only sport that enjoyed "eased" admission criteria.
The key words in that sentence may be "a few years ago" but there is still anecdotal evidence to support it continued

I was told in the past for non-lacrosse sports that you basically had to hit collective numbers for an entire class. So if you wanted a kid that was below par on some level, you'd have to take a kid with really great numbers. That isn't saying kid with completely substandard numbers could get in (they wouldn't) only that there was some leeway on it if you had another kid in the class with great numbers balance out the kid with slightly lower numbers. I have no idea if it is still the same. I doubt it.

Several of my roommates wouldn't have been at Hopkins but for playing football. One proudly admitted that just missed breaking 4 digits on his SATs. You can say that is awful and can't believe he went got into Hopkins. But he worked his butt off at Hopkins, graduated with high honors and is now a renowned MD in his field. I will fully admit applying now is a completely different envrionment.

Personally, I think the whole game in college admissions offices right now is an attempt to get away from numbers. The schools love the "test optional" model that's come with Covid. They seem to prefer the "holistic" model of admissions, rather than a GPA/SAT based grid. Given the extent of grade inflation in HS, the colleges end up with a lot of kids who have very good grades and otherwise look like fine candidates. Way more than they can admit. And so the key to getting in seems to be having an extra something else to separate themselves. Being a recruited athlete is definitely one of those things'. So I wouldn't say that Hop "lowers standards" now all that much because the "standards" these days are not as objective as they used to be. But yeah, I'm sure the vast majority of the team wouldn't have gotten into Hop if they didn't play lacrosse.

“Yield” is also a big issue. That’s the percentage of admitted students who choose to enroll at Hopkins. Hopkins has steadily moved towards admitting more early decision applicants, which improves the yield and ultimately lowers the admission rate (important for the all-important U.S. News & World Report rankings). Definitely a little easier to get in early decision. I’m sure all the recruited lacrosse players are admitted through the early decision process.

DocBarrister

100% correct. If you look at the "yield" for HPY + Stanford it's through the roof, which is because those schools make the true superstars (i.e. the ones who back in the day would have applied to and gotten into all of those schools) pick one through the ED process, which is a binding agreement on the student (if you get in, you agree to come and withdraw any other applications). These schools fill an enormous percentage of the classes through the ED process.

Experiencing this now. It is tricky, because you want your ED school to be a bit of a reach, but not an impassibility. And with the reduced emphasis on standardized tests, gauging this is not easy. And the schools are all in on this. If you submit early for regular decision, be prepared for an e-mail saying, "Are you sure you don't want to apply ED or ED2?"

That said, I heard something I like to share: "Love your safety school." Doesn't have to be your first choice, but it has to be something your child would like. Because, once there, there will be plenty of opportunities for the motivated. And almost everybody loves their college experience.

Edit to add: Some schools have "Restrictive Early Action", where you essentially promise not to ED anywhere else. So you hear early but are not committed. The admissions edge is not nearly as great as that provided by ED, but the flexibility is nice.

[jhu06]

In case you wanted to know how far this program has fallen with the student body, local media, lacrosse media and national media, the winningest coach in program history returns sunday and I've seen exactly one story (the syracuse student newspaper) and one other mention of the game (the cuse game notes). The Hopkins student newspaper which comes out thursday afternoon currently has an empty tennis court and jr high level written article about d3 sports expenses on the cover of its sports section but nothing on this game.

cuse notes petros last non jhu homewood appearance was a 17-5 win in 1994 as a dc at loyola. Couldn't find tape online. https://cuse.com/news/2022/3/10/mens-la ... pkins.aspx

[nyjay]

It’s rough out there 44 - at least that’s been my sons experience so far this admissions cycle. Hopefully, you kid is having better luck.

[OCanada]

Hopkins early commits were conditional eg if the recruit met certain conditions they would be accepted. Kids generally like Petro.

There were probably nowhere near as many “relaxed” admissions as people imagine. They were limited to players who they felt would graduate. The coaches did not want to have a fail bcs they would lose the optionality.

have been led to understand they don’t occur now but don’t know.

[OCanada]

Wdgsr. Not surprising but my anecdote was in the past, My wife and sister in law are grads

[GSP]

Lars Tiffany and the Hoos would like to interrupt this comment string to thank you guys for the 1 man, punt return clear that is Evan Zinn.
HUGE addition plus he plays VERY solid defense!

[Sagittarius A*]

Lars Tiffany and the Hoos would like to interrupt this comment string to thank you guys for the 1 man, punt return clear that is Evan Zinn.
HUGE addition plus he plays VERY solid defense!

Hey, don't forget we originally had Schellenberger as a recruit too. Ex-Jays are doing well for you guys.

[51percentcorn]

Hopkins early commits were conditional eg if the recruit met certain conditions they would be accepted. Kids generally like Petro.

There were probably nowhere near as many “relaxed” admissions as people imagine. They were limited to players who they felt would graduate. The coaches did not want to have a fail bcs they would lose the optionality.

have been led to understand they don’t occur now but don’t know.

When Petro was taking kids at the beginning of their freshmen year there is no way they could "feel" they would graduate. They hadn't even taken the PSAT yet. Same is true for the kids who were rising sophs in high school (except maybe they took the PSAT)

In case you wanted to know how far this program has fallen with the student body, local media, lacrosse media and national media, the winningest coach in program history returns sunday and I've seen exactly one story (the syracuse student newspaper) and one other mention of the game (the cuse game notes). The Hopkins student newspaper which comes out thursday afternoon currently has an empty tennis court and jr high level written article about d3 sports expenses on the cover of its sports section but nothing on this game.

cuse notes petros last non jhu homewood appearance was a 17-5 win in 1994 as a dc at loyola. Couldn't find tape online. https://cuse.com/news/2022/3/10/mens-la ... pkins.aspx

Except for this very insular little group of lacrosse fans- NOBODY CARES. Petro has been gone almost 2 years. Half the student body never saw him or gives a rat's rear end. He's also an assistant coach - it's not exactly the same if he were the head coach. Carc and QK gave it some airtime last night. BTW - I stand by my comment last year- Shellenberger is the best player in college lacrosse - OMG - every choice he makes seems to be the right one.