Page 177 of 236

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:16 am
by Farfromgeneva
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:05 am ok, if it’s not a threat to . Gov, why so much fear on displacing some value?

That is exactly what the stock market is. Lots of meaningless and volatile value.
Currency is not the same thing as stock market. Not even close. Conflating the two is a problem in thinking.

Currency requires some element of stability, which is Afans point, just articulated differently. Standardization and stability. (The latter more or less required the former)

The answer is reduction of volatility. Otherwise one cannot plan beyond today. Akin to why government provides a national defense. To create stability so that the citizens can plan beyond that day.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:33 am
by kramerica.inc
Makes sense.

Then why so much fear from Omarova, etc on displacing some value?

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:45 am
by Farfromgeneva
Because banking isn’t currency. Banking volatility is created more from FDIC insurance and regulatory oversight as it’s reduced by those functions. It’s one thing to address regulatory capture, it’s entirely another to say the answer is to blow it up and take it in house. Shes arguing for another paradigm but it doesn’t work if it’s siloed to just banking and that’s what she doesn’t understand. If it could ever work it would require wholesale changes in our social organizations. Can’t do one piece on its own. That’s what academics often miss in living in very narrow subcategories of the whole. Trees from forest.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:54 am
by Typical Lax Dad
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:45 am Because banking isn’t currency. Banking volatility is created more from FDIC insurance and regulatory oversight as it’s reduced by those functions. It’s one thing to address regulatory capture, it’s entirely another to say the answer is to blow it up and take it in house. Shes arguing for another paradigm but it doesn’t work if it’s siloed to just banking and that’s what she doesn’t understand. If it could ever work it would require wholesale changes in our social organizations. Can’t do one piece on its own. That’s what academics often miss in living in very narrow subcategories of the whole. Trees from forest.
Yep. A lot of “given this” or “if - then” analysis in academia. Kramer has a malleable Q type mind. It’s evident in his posts.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:08 am
by youthathletics
Seems like cash is the 'current' safe way to go, at least until the dust settles, no?

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:24 am
by Farfromgeneva
youthathletics wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:08 am Seems like cash is the 'current' safe way to go, at least until the dust settles, no?
That’s what Talib argues and backs with his empiraca HF. 90-95% cash, 5-10% deep out of the money “yo” or options. Will drag a** for extended periods of time, sort of like anyone who witnessed Michael Buddy paying insurance premiums on mortgage backed securities for 18-30mo before it paid off (ca ching!). Harder when cash pays negative yield with inflation outpacing front end govt rates (cash = Fed funds or even T-notes inside 1yr effecticely) and when liquidity risk is vastly underpriced, but eventually when everyone takes a major step back you’ll vault ahead and, more importantly, be liquid and capable of buying stuff that’s on sale like it was during the riots in LA in 1992.

BTW, Youth, you owe me a cookie. Working out and gots another good podcast that you particularly should appreciate given your plethora of comments on simplifying life.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0529329934

Journalist and author Michael Easter talks about his book The Comfort Crisis with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Easter thinks modern life is too easy, too comfortable. To be healthy, he says, we need to move out of our comfort zones and every once in a while try to do something, especially something physically demanding, that we didn't think was possible. Easter discusses rising levels of anxiety and depression in the West and why taking on challenges can be part of the solution.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:09 am
by youthathletics
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:24 am
youthathletics wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:08 am Seems like cash is the 'current' safe way to go, at least until the dust settles, no?
BTW, Youth, you owe me a cookie. Working out and gots another good podcast that you particularly should appreciate given your plethora of comments on simplifying life.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0529329934

Journalist and author Michael Easter talks about his book The Comfort Crisis with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Easter thinks modern life is too easy, too comfortable. To be healthy, he says, we need to move out of our comfort zones and every once in a while try to do something, especially something physically demanding, that we didn't think was possible. Easter discusses rising levels of anxiety and depression in the West and why taking on challenges can be part of the solution.
I will check it out this week. If I ever get to Atlanta....will certainly catch up.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am
by seacoaster
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/busi ... ology.html

"The first time the Harvard law professor Lawrence Lessig told computer scientists they were the unwitting regulators of the digital age — about 20 years ago — he made a coder cry. “I am not a politician. I’m a programmer,” Mr. Lessig recalls her protesting, horrified by the idea.

Now, the notion that “code is law”— from Mr. Lessig’s 1999 book “Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace” — does not shock young engineers or lawyers, the professor says. To digital natives it is “obvious” that technology dictates behavior with rules that are not value neutral.

Big tech companies have reluctantly admitted the same, with Meta, the social media company formerly known as Facebook, going as far as establishing a courtlike board of experts to evaluate decisions dictated in part by programming. And one relatively young sector of tech — the cryptocurrency industry — has embraced the concept of “code as law” wholeheartedly, with some companies explicitly arguing that code can be a better arbitrator than traditional regulators.

Many crypto fans are betting on a future where we bank, create, play, work and trade on platforms with code running the show, and in the booming decentralized finance (DeFi) sector, automated “smart contracts” that are programmed in advance to respond to specific sets of conditions already handle billions of dollars in transactions daily, with no need for human intervention, at least theoretically.

Users put their full faith in programming. No one shares personal information. Code does it all and is supposed to be the whole of the law. “There’s no human judgment. There’s no human error. There’s no processes. Everything works instantly and autonomously,” said Robert Leshner, who founded the DeFi money market protocol Compound, in an interview in August.

But while the idea of a perfectly neutral, self-patrolling system is appealing, high-profile mishaps have cast doubt on the idea that code is a sufficient form of regulation on its own — or that it is immune to human mistakes and manipulation.

A smart contract executes automatically when certain conditions are met. So if there is a bug in the system, a user might be able to trigger an unearned transfer all while technically following the “law” of code. This is what allowed a $600 million theft this summer from the Poly Network, which lets users transfer cryptocurrencies across blockchain networks. The thieves are believed to have taken advantage of a flaw in the code to override smart contract instructions and trigger massive transfers, essentially tricking the automation into operating as if the proper conditions for a transfer were met.

“If you can tell a smart contract to ‘give me all your money’ and it does, is it even theft?” the computer scientist Nicholas Weaver of the University of California, Berkeley wrote about the theft. Unlike old-school agreements, Weaver wrote, ambiguities with smart contracts cannot be resolved in the courts and automated deals are irreversible — so developers must resort to begging when things go awry.

After the $600 million theft, the Poly Network tweeted a request that began, “Dear Hacker,” asking them to return the funds and calling the act “a major economic crime.” Ultimately, most of the money was returned, talk about law enforcement stopped and the hackers said they wanted to show the code was flawed to protect the network.

Similarly, a software upgrade in Compound in September resulted in $90 million being erroneously issued to users. Mr. Leshner said recipients who didn’t return the crypto would be reported to tax authorities, prompting outcry from his community for undermining claims that these programs cannot technically comply with traditional regulatory requirements to identify users. The request also undermined claims that DeFi has no need for oversight from traditional regulators — when a problem arose, Mr. Leshner cited government authority.

For now, DeFi platforms operate in a regulatory gray space, subject to the law of private coders who claim no control over the organization’s governing programs. Platforms and apps built for blockchain networks are often formed under a new kind of business structure known as a Decentralized Autonomous Organization, or DAO, ostensibly democratically governed by a community of users who vote with crypto tokens.

But there are always people behind the code, as disasters have shown.

“That it’s all code and no humans is simply not true. In cases of urgency, this is when you see where power lies,” said Thibault Schrepel, who teaches law at Amsterdam University and created the “computational antitrust” project at the Stanford University CodeX Center for Legal Informatics.

The reason no one wants to claim control of decentralized programs is because it limits liability — with no one in control, there is no one to punish for problems and nowhere to implement the law, Mr. Schrepel explained. “But the idea that code — alone — is sufficient, is wrong,” he said. And if the blockchain community uses code to evade regulation, Mr. Schrepel argues, this will only hamper innovation.

He is part of a generation of techno-lawyers who want to bridge the gaps between code and law. Ideally, he said, code and law could work together. Smart contracts on the blockchain could be used by businesses to collude or to enhance competition, so regulators could analyze code and software programming, cooperating with core developers of decentralized systems. Similarly, policymakers could start translating traditional notions of risk mitigation into code for decentralized finance programs, thinking about the equivalent of reserve requirements that banks have into parameters for programs.

“I’m not going to say it’s easy to advance our thinking,” said Chris Giancarlo of the law firm Willkie Farr & Gallagher, a former chair of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and author of “CryptoDad: The Fight for the Future of Money.” Still, he asks, “Shouldn’t we try to rethink our approach to regulation to achieve the same policy goals, but in a different way?”

Mr. Lessig agrees. “We need a more sophisticated approach, with technologists and lawyers sitting next to behavioral psychologists and economists,” all defining parameters to code social values into programs so that private interests don’t replace them with their own. “We’re facing an existential threat to our democracy and we don’t have 20 years to wait.”

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:41 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Law is code when we’re talking about something constructed by a granulation (society, government, pro sports league, etc). Not sure why people think it’s different except for the whole we suck donkey balls at stem and look at it like voodoo aspect.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:49 pm
by a fan
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am Similarly, a software upgrade in Compound in September resulted in $90 million being erroneously issued to users. Mr. Leshner said recipients who didn’t return the crypto would be reported to tax authorities, prompting outcry from his community for undermining claims that these programs cannot technically comply with traditional regulatory requirements to identify users. The request also undermined claims that DeFi has no need for oversight from traditional regulators — when a problem arose, Mr. Leshner cited government authority.
:lol: :lol:

If a mistake happens on a global level----so instead of $90 Million, it's $90 Trillion----now what? How do you resolve this dispute?

It's mind boggling that anyone that's smart enough to understand the logic of coding, isn't smart enough to understand the logic as to why Crypto"currency" isn't currency. And why it's simply Ponzi, writ large.

Heck, you don't even have to have an actual programming problem. You just need the APPEARANCE of a programming problem to collapse a crypto.

It's sooooo stupid. And the ONLY reason anyone is REALLY interested in it is TLD's daughter's story----"wow, I doubled my money in one week".

The problem, obviously, is that the person who bought the crypto from TLD's daughter is now holding the bag.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:51 pm
by a fan
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:33 am Makes sense.

Then why so much fear from Omarova, etc on displacing some value?
They're not afraid of "displacing value". That's the tinfoil hat crypotcurrency guy talking nonsense. All ACTUAL currencies have flaws, which is something these techno-middlemen don't want you to hear---they just want their commission, and they want to enjoy being first in, first out.

The fear is: collapse of global economy because users don't understand this isn't currency. THAT is the worry. I'm terrified that any 1st world
country would be corrupt enough to make a cryptocurrency legal tender in their home country.

Is the programming flawless for any of these stupid things? Are you SURE?

And what are the protections if there's a "run" on cryptocurrency? (There aren't any.)

And what happens if there's a dispute? Where do you go? (nowhere, sorry, you're out of luck)

The ONLY reason anyone is interested in these stupid things is the initial returns are huge, because it's a stupid pyramid scheme.

What happens when/if Bitcoin stabilizes, and no longer goes up or down in value more than a percentage point or two per year? Then what?

People aren't thinking this through. And that doesn't even get into things like the stupidity of "bitcoin mining".

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:03 pm
by Farfromgeneva
a fan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:51 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:33 am Makes sense.

Then why so much fear from Omarova, etc on displacing some value?
They're not afraid of "displacing value". That's the tinfoil hat crypotcurrency guy talking nonsense. All ACTUAL currencies have flaws, which is something these techno-middlemen don't want you to hear---they just want their commission, and they want to enjoy being first in, first out.

The fear is: collapse of global economy because users don't understand this isn't currency. THAT is the worry. I'm terrified that any 1st world
country would be corrupt enough to make a cryptocurrency legal tender in their home country.

Is the programming flawless for any of these stupid things? Are you SURE?

And what are the protections if there's a "run" on cryptocurrency? (There aren't any.)

And what happens if there's a dispute? Where do you go? (nowhere, sorry, you're out of luck)

The ONLY reason anyone is interested in these stupid things is the initial returns are huge, because it's a stupid pyramid scheme.

What happens when/if Bitcoin stabilizes, and no longer goes up or down in value more than a percentage point or two per year? Then what?

People aren't thinking this through. And that doesn't even get into things like the stupidity of "bitcoin mining".
Havent heard about El Salvador?

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-b ... 021-11-21/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/17/el ... law-farce/

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:59 pm
by seacoaster
a fan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:49 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am Similarly, a software upgrade in Compound in September resulted in $90 million being erroneously issued to users. Mr. Leshner said recipients who didn’t return the crypto would be reported to tax authorities, prompting outcry from his community for undermining claims that these programs cannot technically comply with traditional regulatory requirements to identify users. The request also undermined claims that DeFi has no need for oversight from traditional regulators — when a problem arose, Mr. Leshner cited government authority.
:lol: :lol:

If a mistake happens on a global level----so instead of $90 Million, it's $90 Trillion----now what? How do you resolve this dispute?

It's mind boggling that anyone that's smart enough to understand the logic of coding, isn't smart enough to understand the logic as to why Crypto"currency" isn't currency. And why it's simply Ponzi, writ large.

Heck, you don't even have to have an actual programming problem. You just need the APPEARANCE of a programming problem to collapse a crypto.

It's sooooo stupid. And the ONLY reason anyone is REALLY interested in it is TLD's daughter's story----"wow, I doubled my money in one week".

The problem, obviously, is that the person who bought the crypto from TLD's daughter is now holding the bag.
OK. So back to the original issue: Kramerica's suggestion that Biden's now withdrawn nominee was wary of cryptocurrencies, not because of all the problems associated with regulation, but because only authoritarian governments are out to get him. Can we agree that (2) this is a pretty stupid default position on this issue, and (2) that Omarova is basically correct that nation states, looking out for their economies and citizens, should be deeply wary of this stuff?

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:10 pm
by Farfromgeneva
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:59 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:49 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am Similarly, a software upgrade in Compound in September resulted in $90 million being erroneously issued to users. Mr. Leshner said recipients who didn’t return the crypto would be reported to tax authorities, prompting outcry from his community for undermining claims that these programs cannot technically comply with traditional regulatory requirements to identify users. The request also undermined claims that DeFi has no need for oversight from traditional regulators — when a problem arose, Mr. Leshner cited government authority.
:lol: :lol:

If a mistake happens on a global level----so instead of $90 Million, it's $90 Trillion----now what? How do you resolve this dispute?

It's mind boggling that anyone that's smart enough to understand the logic of coding, isn't smart enough to understand the logic as to why Crypto"currency" isn't currency. And why it's simply Ponzi, writ large.

Heck, you don't even have to have an actual programming problem. You just need the APPEARANCE of a programming problem to collapse a crypto.

It's sooooo stupid. And the ONLY reason anyone is REALLY interested in it is TLD's daughter's story----"wow, I doubled my money in one week".

The problem, obviously, is that the person who bought the crypto from TLD's daughter is now holding the bag.
OK. So back to the original issue: Kramerica's suggestion that Biden's now withdrawn nominee was wary of cryptocurrencies, not because of all the problems associated with regulation, but because only authoritarian governments are out to get him. Can we agree that (2) this is a pretty stupid default position on this issue, and (2) that Omarova is basically correct that nation states, looking out for their economies and citizens, should be deeply wary of this stuff?
That was effectively dismissed already. Nobody buys that feeble and specious argument that began “it is not a coincidence…”

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:00 am
by kramerica.inc
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:10 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:59 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:49 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:56 am Similarly, a software upgrade in Compound in September resulted in $90 million being erroneously issued to users. Mr. Leshner said recipients who didn’t return the crypto would be reported to tax authorities, prompting outcry from his community for undermining claims that these programs cannot technically comply with traditional regulatory requirements to identify users. The request also undermined claims that DeFi has no need for oversight from traditional regulators — when a problem arose, Mr. Leshner cited government authority.
:lol: :lol:

If a mistake happens on a global level----so instead of $90 Million, it's $90 Trillion----now what? How do you resolve this dispute?

It's mind boggling that anyone that's smart enough to understand the logic of coding, isn't smart enough to understand the logic as to why Crypto"currency" isn't currency. And why it's simply Ponzi, writ large.

Heck, you don't even have to have an actual programming problem. You just need the APPEARANCE of a programming problem to collapse a crypto.

It's sooooo stupid. And the ONLY reason anyone is REALLY interested in it is TLD's daughter's story----"wow, I doubled my money in one week".

The problem, obviously, is that the person who bought the crypto from TLD's daughter is now holding the bag.
OK. So back to the original issue: Kramerica's suggestion that Biden's now withdrawn nominee was wary of cryptocurrencies, not because of all the problems associated with regulation, but because only authoritarian governments are out to get him. Can we agree that (2) this is a pretty stupid default position on this issue, and (2) that Omarova is basically correct that nation states, looking out for their economies and citizens, should be deeply wary of this stuff?
That was effectively dismissed already. Nobody buys that feeble and specious argument that began “it is not a coincidence…”
That wasn't the argument at all.
It’s not a coincidence that many of the countries who highly regulate crypto are in danger of failing themselves, or run oppressive governments.
The suggestion was that Omarova thinks about regulation of Crypto like authoritarian and developing nations do. It's more of a threat to those authoritarian administrations and banana republics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_ ... _territory

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 am
by Farfromgeneva
kramerica.inc wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:36 am
seacoaster wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:40 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:09 am Omarova scared of crypto:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.ya ... 38462.html

The desire to suppress something that can overtake government currency is exactly why China and Russia banned crypto too.
Do you agree with her that this is or should be an area of government and regulator concern?
If you think it is the governement’s job to grow government, it should be an area of concern. If you believe in state over people or free markets, go ahead and highly regulate crypto.

It’s not a coincidence that all the countries who highly regulate crypto are in danger of failing themselves, or run oppressive governments.
Nice try but you only pulled part of it. Context actually matters.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:18 am
by Farfromgeneva
kramerica.inc wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:05 am ok, if it’s not a threat to . Gov, why so much fear on displacing some value?

That is exactly what the stock market is. Lots of meaningless and volatile value.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 am
by youthathletics
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:24 am
youthathletics wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:08 am Seems like cash is the 'current' safe way to go, at least until the dust settles, no?
BTW, Youth, you owe me a cookie. Working out and gots another good podcast that you particularly should appreciate given your plethora of comments on simplifying life.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0529329934

Journalist and author Michael Easter talks about his book The Comfort Crisis with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Easter thinks modern life is too easy, too comfortable. To be healthy, he says, we need to move out of our comfort zones and every once in a while try to do something, especially something physically demanding, that we didn't think was possible. Easter discusses rising levels of anxiety and depression in the West and why taking on challenges can be part of the solution.
Just finished listening.....loved it, thanks for sharing. Now I am on the hunt for a new personal misogi.....open to ideas.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 am
by Farfromgeneva
youthathletics wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:24 am
youthathletics wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:08 am Seems like cash is the 'current' safe way to go, at least until the dust settles, no?
BTW, Youth, you owe me a cookie. Working out and gots another good podcast that you particularly should appreciate given your plethora of comments on simplifying life.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0529329934

Journalist and author Michael Easter talks about his book The Comfort Crisis with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Easter thinks modern life is too easy, too comfortable. To be healthy, he says, we need to move out of our comfort zones and every once in a while try to do something, especially something physically demanding, that we didn't think was possible. Easter discusses rising levels of anxiety and depression in the West and why taking on challenges can be part of the solution.
Just finished listening.....loved it, thanks for sharing. Now I am on the hunt for a new personal misogi.....open to ideas.
Glad you enjoyed it. I might pick up some new hunting activities from it.

There's a whole library of topics if you ever get bored to check out. Been listening to Roberts' podcast since 08 or 09. Good stuff on road trips or long treadmill runs.

Re: ~46~ Unfit Uncle Joe Biden ~46~

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:25 pm
by kramerica.inc
Biden Administration tells some agencies they can delay firings of unvaccinated federal employees until after the holidays:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/politics ... index.html

"We, swear, we mean it this time."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/02/politics ... index.html