Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[cradleandshoot]

ok, so you don't have a place where its obvious that it's not about public safety. Can't come up with even one,

You just think she doesn't care.

More importantly, you don't care about fascism.

We needn't discuss it further.

Since you requested... Public transportation. Trains, subways, buses, taxis, Uber and Lyft. Are they too sensitive??? If you ride these everyday the likelihood of a bad guy with a weapon is not an unreasonable threat. Answer me my question. What problem do you have with someone with a concealed carry permit bringing his/her weapon on the subway with them??? Yes we need to discuss it further because your dodging reality. No time for you to be a coward now...

Great, now you're at least attempting to explain your logic instead of just the same repetitive screed.

As I'd said before, my assumption would be that Hochul overreached, indeed just a little googling indicates that she modified the legislation based on negative feedback. For instance, https://www.timesunion.com/state/article/hochul-proposes-technical-changes-concealed-17759938.php

But as to intent, I don't think any of these suggest a lack of concern for public safety...for instance, the presumption that a weapon on a public train is illegal allows law enforcement to be much more aggressive in ensuring that none get aboard those trains in the first place, for instance with metal detectors and law enforcement at points of entry. It enables those suspected of carrying a weapon and found to be so to be immediately detained.

Unfortunately for Hochul's view, the will and funding to to do all that really would be necessary to make these locations safer is not the reality.

The issue is fraught.

You are contending that allowing weapons to be carried concealed in these locations is just fine, in a state where concealed carry permits have been very easy to obtain and once obtained difficult to remove...she thinks not allowing them would make these areas safer...it's an argument. But not remotely the same as what DeSantis is doing with his GOP legislature and what he's saying the country as a whole should be doing if Republicans win the power.

You skirted around my question and never answered it. What is your problem with people who have passed an exhaustive and thorough background check? There are many obstacles to being granted a concealed carry permit in NYS. Traffic tickets can be considered by the judge making the determination on your permit. Do you seriously have an issue with someone bringing their weapon with the proper concealed carry permit to church with them on Sunday? The bad guys count on their victims being unarmed. The concealed carry restrictions you are enamored with help to guarantee that the bad guys know and understand no good person with a gun will be there to try and stop them. Your common sense approach to concealed carry permit restrictions makes you one of the best friends any bad guy could ever want. You must be so very proud?

I earlier linked an article that directly addressed your contention above.

Pre 2022, it has been exceedingly easy to obtain a concealed carry and once obtained you kept it. Huge number given out in NYS.
Exact opposite of your contention.

You obviously didn't read it or ignored it.

HUGE NUMBER GIVEN OUT IN NYS???!?

How do you justify this lie? Define what a HUGE # is in your opinion? You have absolutely no clue how long it takes to get a ccp in NYS

[MDlaxfan76]

New Requirements for Individuals Seeking to Obtain Concealed Carry Pistol Permits Include Firearm Trainings, In-Person Interview, and Social Media Review, Among Others

New...pre August 2022, no in person interview, no social media review, no firearm training.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... reme-court

https://www.wxxinews.org/capitol-bureau ... w-gun-laws

And many rushed to get ahead of the new requirements...https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/so ... -shooting/

There are more than 200,000 concealed permit holders in New York State, almost none of which went through any of these deeper background checks, firearms training requirements, etc. I consider that a "huge number".

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyre ... rmits.html

But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about...

cradle, I provided these sorts of links to you many months ago when we discussed the topic before...I seem to recall you saying that you weren't going to bother to read them...

Now to the policies of regulating guns:
I'm ok with very rigorous standards for gun licensing. I'm a gun owner and I want the ability to safely use my guns for the purpose intended. In my case, that's hunting or skeet shooting, well regulated and/or on my private property well away from any public. I would never carry a loaded weapon in a public area. I would never have a loaded weapon in my home.

There are rare circumstances in which an individual could have a legitimate (IMO) reason to have a concealed weapon in a public place, but these should be very rare...and that's what our objective in law enforcement should be, not to 'flood the zone' with loosely regulated weapons...because the 'bad guys' may need to be stopped by a citizen vigilante.

My answer is more, not less, law enforcement and very tough penalties for any crime with a gun, any illegal possession of a gun.

[cradleandshoot]

New Requirements for Individuals Seeking to Obtain Concealed Carry Pistol Permits Include Firearm Trainings, In-Person Interview, and Social Media Review, Among Others

New...pre August 2022, no in person interview, no social media review, no firearm training.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... reme-court

https://www.wxxinews.org/capitol-bureau ... w-gun-laws

And many rushed to get ahead of the new requirements...https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/so ... -shooting/

There are more than 200,000 concealed permit holders in New York State, almost none of which went through any of these deeper background checks, firearms training requirements, etc. I consider that a "huge number".

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyre ... rmits.html

But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about...

cradle, I provided these sorts of links to you many months ago when we discussed the topic before...I seem to recall you saying that you weren't going to bother to read them...

Now to the policies of regulating guns:
I'm ok with very rigorous standards for gun licensing. I'm a gun owner and I want the ability to safely use my guns for the purpose intended. In my case, that's hunting or skeet shooting, well regulated and/or on my private property well away from any public. I would never carry a loaded weapon in a public area. I would never have a loaded weapon in my home.

There are rare circumstances in which an individual could have a legitimate (IMO) reason to have a concealed weapon in a public place, but these should be very rare...and that's what our objective in law enforcement should be, not to 'flood the zone' with loosely regulated weapons...because the 'bad guys' may need to be stopped by a citizen vigilante.

My answer is more, not less, law enforcement and very tough penalties for any crime with a gun, any illegal possession of a gun.

There is no " rush" ahead of anything in Monroe County where I live. If you want a concealed carry permit in this county you fill out the stack of paperwork precisely to the letter. Your paperwork is notarized your fingerprints are taken at the sheriff's office downtown and your request goes up the chain of command and eventually many months later you get a thumbs up or a thumbs down. How people suddenly circumvent this process by the thousands is complete bullchit. I will agree with you that when it comes to getting a handgun permit in NYS that you don't know what your talking about. The last sentence in your post above actually makes sense. You must have had a brief moment of clarity. Possessing an illegal firearm should put you smack dab in a world of deep chit. That sadly is not the case in NYS. The most you will receive is a slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket in court. No wonder you can get out of jail at 9am and have an illegal weapon in your hands a few hours later. Who needs that silly background check nonsense anyway?? That chit is only for law abiding citizens and even then Gov Hochul won't let you concealed carry anywhere anyway....

[MDlaxfan76]

ok, so you didn't read any of it again.

[Farfromgeneva]

New Requirements for Individuals Seeking to Obtain Concealed Carry Pistol Permits Include Firearm Trainings, In-Person Interview, and Social Media Review, Among Others

New...pre August 2022, no in person interview, no social media review, no firearm training.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... reme-court

https://www.wxxinews.org/capitol-bureau ... w-gun-laws

And many rushed to get ahead of the new requirements...https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/so ... -shooting/

There are more than 200,000 concealed permit holders in New York State, almost none of which went through any of these deeper background checks, firearms training requirements, etc. I consider that a "huge number".

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyre ... rmits.html

But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about...

cradle, I provided these sorts of links to you many months ago when we discussed the topic before...I seem to recall you saying that you weren't going to bother to read them...

Now to the policies of regulating guns:
I'm ok with very rigorous standards for gun licensing. I'm a gun owner and I want the ability to safely use my guns for the purpose intended. In my case, that's hunting or skeet shooting, well regulated and/or on my private property well away from any public. I would never carry a loaded weapon in a public area. I would never have a loaded weapon in my home.

There are rare circumstances in which an individual could have a legitimate (IMO) reason to have a concealed weapon in a public place, but these should be very rare...and that's what our objective in law enforcement should be, not to 'flood the zone' with loosely regulated weapons...because the 'bad guys' may need to be stopped by a citizen vigilante.

My answer is more, not less, law enforcement and very tough penalties for any crime with a gun, any illegal possession of a gun.

Not to mention based on my experience and Cradles words NYC area the rest of the state are different worlds. Nyc may as well be Singapore to him.

[cradleandshoot]

New Requirements for Individuals Seeking to Obtain Concealed Carry Pistol Permits Include Firearm Trainings, In-Person Interview, and Social Media Review, Among Others

New...pre August 2022, no in person interview, no social media review, no firearm training.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... reme-court

https://www.wxxinews.org/capitol-bureau ... w-gun-laws

And many rushed to get ahead of the new requirements...https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/so ... -shooting/

There are more than 200,000 concealed permit holders in New York State, almost none of which went through any of these deeper background checks, firearms training requirements, etc. I consider that a "huge number".

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyre ... rmits.html

But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about...

cradle, I provided these sorts of links to you many months ago when we discussed the topic before...I seem to recall you saying that you weren't going to bother to read them...

Now to the policies of regulating guns:
I'm ok with very rigorous standards for gun licensing. I'm a gun owner and I want the ability to safely use my guns for the purpose intended. In my case, that's hunting or skeet shooting, well regulated and/or on my private property well away from any public. I would never carry a loaded weapon in a public area. I would never have a loaded weapon in my home.

There are rare circumstances in which an individual could have a legitimate (IMO) reason to have a concealed weapon in a public place, but these should be very rare...and that's what our objective in law enforcement should be, not to 'flood the zone' with loosely regulated weapons...because the 'bad guys' may need to be stopped by a citizen vigilante.

My answer is more, not less, law enforcement and very tough penalties for any crime with a gun, any illegal possession of a gun.

Not to mention based on my experience and Cradles words NYC area the rest of the state are different worlds. Nyc may as well be Singapore to him.

NYC and upstate NY are 2 totally different worlds. What is your point buttercup? What does your experience tell you that I should know? NYC is an awesome place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there. When was the last time you drove your car and found a parking spot in Manhattan?? Trick question, no sane person would drive their personal vehicle in Manhattan. Brooklyn isn't much better. There is a good chance you'll find your ride resting on cinder blocks minus all 4 wheels.

[Farfromgeneva]

New Requirements for Individuals Seeking to Obtain Concealed Carry Pistol Permits Include Firearm Trainings, In-Person Interview, and Social Media Review, Among Others

New...pre August 2022, no in person interview, no social media review, no firearm training.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... reme-court

https://www.wxxinews.org/capitol-bureau ... w-gun-laws

And many rushed to get ahead of the new requirements...https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/so ... -shooting/

There are more than 200,000 concealed permit holders in New York State, almost none of which went through any of these deeper background checks, firearms training requirements, etc. I consider that a "huge number".

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/nyre ... rmits.html

But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about...

cradle, I provided these sorts of links to you many months ago when we discussed the topic before...I seem to recall you saying that you weren't going to bother to read them...

Now to the policies of regulating guns:
I'm ok with very rigorous standards for gun licensing. I'm a gun owner and I want the ability to safely use my guns for the purpose intended. In my case, that's hunting or skeet shooting, well regulated and/or on my private property well away from any public. I would never carry a loaded weapon in a public area. I would never have a loaded weapon in my home.

There are rare circumstances in which an individual could have a legitimate (IMO) reason to have a concealed weapon in a public place, but these should be very rare...and that's what our objective in law enforcement should be, not to 'flood the zone' with loosely regulated weapons...because the 'bad guys' may need to be stopped by a citizen vigilante.

My answer is more, not less, law enforcement and very tough penalties for any crime with a gun, any illegal possession of a gun.

Not to mention based on my experience and Cradles words NYC area the rest of the state are different worlds. Nyc may as well be Singapore to him.

NYC and upstate NY are 2 totally different worlds. What is your point buttercup? What does your experience tell you that I should know? NYC is an awesome place to visit. I wouldn't want to live there. When was the last time you drove your car and found a parking spot in Manhattan?? Trick question, no sane person would drive their personal vehicle in Manhattan. Brooklyn isn't much better. There is a good chance you'll find your ride resting on cinder blocks minus all 4 wheels.

So silly and afraid of shadows...go to brooklyn heights, park slope or williamsburg. Nicer than where you live and safer.

Point is you keep referencing monroe county and then discussing statewide legislation as if they are synonymous. Takes understanding both to know what you are talking about, not just tell others who are out of state you know better becuase you know the greater rochester area. That's goofy.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Book banning, because the Florida GOP knows better than you what you should be reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... i-picoult/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants you to know he’d never dream of engaging in mass censorship. He held a recent event challenging criticism of his classroom book restrictions as a “hoax,” releasing a video suggesting only “porn” and “hate” are targeted for removal.

There’s a big problem with DeSantis’s claims: The people deciding which books to remove from classrooms and school libraries didn’t get the memo. In many cases, the notion that banned books meet the highly objectionable criteria he detailed is an enormous stretch.

This week, Florida’s Martin County released a list of dozens of books targeted for removal from school libraries, as officials struggle to interpret a bill DeSantis signed in the name of “transparency” in school materials. The episode suggests his decrees are increasingly encouraging local officials to adopt censoring decisions with disturbingly vague rationales and absurdly sweeping scope.

Numerous titles by well-known authors such as Jodi Picoult, Toni Morrison and James Patterson have been pulled from library shelves. The removal list includes Picoult’s novel “The Storyteller” about the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who meets an elderly former SS officer. It contains some violent scenes told in flashbacks from World War II and an assisted suicide.

“Banning ‘The Storyteller’ is shocking, as it is about the Holocaust and has never been banned before,” Picoult told us in an email.

“Martin County is the first to ban twenty of my books at once,” Picoult said, slamming such bans as “a shocking breach of freedom of speech and freedom of information.” A coastal county in the southeastern part of the state, Martin County is heavily Republican.

Picoult said she’s puzzled by the ban, because she does not “write adult romance,” as objections filed against her books claimed.

“Most of the books pulled do not even have a single kiss in them,” Picoult told us. “They do, however, include gay characters, and issues like racism, disability, abortion rights, gun control, and other topics that might make a kid think differently from their parents.”

“We have actual proof that marginalized kids who read books about marginalized characters wind up feeling less alone,” Picoult continued. “Books bridge divides between people. Book bans create them.”

In the case of “The Storyteller” and virtually all the other books by Picoult and others that are getting removed, the county’s removal directive cites guidance from Florida’s Department of Education. It directs educators to “err on the side of caution,” urging them to nix material that they wouldn’t be “comfortable reading aloud.”

The state’s absurdly vague directive seems almost designed to invite abuse, not only by school officials making the decisions, but also by parents who call for removals. Underscoring the point, documents obtained from the county by the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which were shared with us, cite one person as the primary objector to virtually all of these books.

That objector? Julie Marshall, who in addition to being a concerned parent also heads the local chapter of Moms For Liberty, a group that pressures school boards and officials to remove all kinds of materials that violate conservative ideology on race and sexuality.

We emailed Marshall to ask if she was aware of other parents who filed objections to all these books. She didn’t reply. A spokesperson for the Martin County school district pointed out that there’s a process in place governing how these decisions are made.

Other titles getting removed include “Mighty Jack and the Goblin King,” a graphic novel featuring kids traveling through a magic portal and fighting monsters. One citizen (not Marshall this time) filed an objection noting that at one point the sister yells at her brother, “Jack, you ass! Stop it!”

Then there’s “Drama,” a graphic novel about a school play in which a boy who wears a dress as part of the production has an onstage kiss with another boy actor. Just wait until these parents hear about “Twelfth Night.”

Those last two books are apparently being removed only from elementary schools. “But if the rationale to remove the books is as thin as it seems, that alone is egregious,” Jonathan Friedman, who oversees PEN America’s tracking of book bans, told us. “You can’t just remove books from schools because one person objects. That’s absurd. Unfortunately, that’s what seems to have happened here.”

As we’ve detailed, the multiple new laws DeSantis has signed combine deliberately vague directives with the threat of frightening penalties to create a climate of uncertainty and fear. This appears deliberately designed to get school officials to err on the side of censorship, and to get teachers to muzzle themselves to avoid accidentally crossing fuzzy lines into violations of orthodoxy. It invites lone activists to designate themselves veritable commissars of local book purging.

In Martin County, this strategy is unfolding exactly as intended."

But don't worry about it; it is Florida's problem, and not relevant to the Couch Riders of the North.

[MDlaxfan76]

Book banning, because the Florida GOP knows better than you what you should be reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... i-picoult/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants you to know he’d never dream of engaging in mass censorship. He held a recent event challenging criticism of his classroom book restrictions as a “hoax,” releasing a video suggesting only “porn” and “hate” are targeted for removal.

There’s a big problem with DeSantis’s claims: The people deciding which books to remove from classrooms and school libraries didn’t get the memo. In many cases, the notion that banned books meet the highly objectionable criteria he detailed is an enormous stretch.

This week, Florida’s Martin County released a list of dozens of books targeted for removal from school libraries, as officials struggle to interpret a bill DeSantis signed in the name of “transparency” in school materials. The episode suggests his decrees are increasingly encouraging local officials to adopt censoring decisions with disturbingly vague rationales and absurdly sweeping scope.

Numerous titles by well-known authors such as Jodi Picoult, Toni Morrison and James Patterson have been pulled from library shelves. The removal list includes Picoult’s novel “The Storyteller” about the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who meets an elderly former SS officer. It contains some violent scenes told in flashbacks from World War II and an assisted suicide.

“Banning ‘The Storyteller’ is shocking, as it is about the Holocaust and has never been banned before,” Picoult told us in an email.

“Martin County is the first to ban twenty of my books at once,” Picoult said, slamming such bans as “a shocking breach of freedom of speech and freedom of information.” A coastal county in the southeastern part of the state, Martin County is heavily Republican.

Picoult said she’s puzzled by the ban, because she does not “write adult romance,” as objections filed against her books claimed.

“Most of the books pulled do not even have a single kiss in them,” Picoult told us. “They do, however, include gay characters, and issues like racism, disability, abortion rights, gun control, and other topics that might make a kid think differently from their parents.”

“We have actual proof that marginalized kids who read books about marginalized characters wind up feeling less alone,” Picoult continued. “Books bridge divides between people. Book bans create them.”

In the case of “The Storyteller” and virtually all the other books by Picoult and others that are getting removed, the county’s removal directive cites guidance from Florida’s Department of Education. It directs educators to “err on the side of caution,” urging them to nix material that they wouldn’t be “comfortable reading aloud.”

The state’s absurdly vague directive seems almost designed to invite abuse, not only by school officials making the decisions, but also by parents who call for removals. Underscoring the point, documents obtained from the county by the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which were shared with us, cite one person as the primary objector to virtually all of these books.

That objector? Julie Marshall, who in addition to being a concerned parent also heads the local chapter of Moms For Liberty, a group that pressures school boards and officials to remove all kinds of materials that violate conservative ideology on race and sexuality.

We emailed Marshall to ask if she was aware of other parents who filed objections to all these books. She didn’t reply. A spokesperson for the Martin County school district pointed out that there’s a process in place governing how these decisions are made.

Other titles getting removed include “Mighty Jack and the Goblin King,” a graphic novel featuring kids traveling through a magic portal and fighting monsters. One citizen (not Marshall this time) filed an objection noting that at one point the sister yells at her brother, “Jack, you ass! Stop it!”

Then there’s “Drama,” a graphic novel about a school play in which a boy who wears a dress as part of the production has an onstage kiss with another boy actor. Just wait until these parents hear about “Twelfth Night.”

Those last two books are apparently being removed only from elementary schools. “But if the rationale to remove the books is as thin as it seems, that alone is egregious,” Jonathan Friedman, who oversees PEN America’s tracking of book bans, told us. “You can’t just remove books from schools because one person objects. That’s absurd. Unfortunately, that’s what seems to have happened here.”

As we’ve detailed, the multiple new laws DeSantis has signed combine deliberately vague directives with the threat of frightening penalties to create a climate of uncertainty and fear. This appears deliberately designed to get school officials to err on the side of censorship, and to get teachers to muzzle themselves to avoid accidentally crossing fuzzy lines into violations of orthodoxy. It invites lone activists to designate themselves veritable commissars of local book purging.

In Martin County, this strategy is unfolding exactly as intended."

But don't worry about it; it is Florida's problem, and not relevant to the Couch Riders of the North.

We've lived in Martin County these past 3 winters.
This isn't like ag country mid-Florida, the Villages, or the panhandle, but it does lean to the right.

DeSantis and the GOP legislature intended these book "bans" or "book purging" to eliminate ALL content the right might find objectionable or concerning under the cover of "parents should control". But clearly this is just extremist right parents that count.

Fear of books. Fascist.

[runrussellrun]

heck.....heck turd heck........these words are banned on this social media webthing. They are, in fact, appropriatly....changed automatically.

We feel sorry for those that don't understand that "mighty Jack..." was removed because of profanity.

The very same profanity that is not allowed on THIS webthingy.

[MDlaxfan76]

"ass" is not a word that is altered on here.

[Seacoaster(1)]

"ass" is not a word that is altered on here.

Well done. And "jerk" will, after all, sometimes suffice.

[runrussellrun]

"ass" is not a word that is altered on here.

Well done. And "jerk" will, after all, sometimes suffice.

ASS.......


.......still considered a profane word.

Go call your child an "ass". Or a lacrosse official.....see what happens.

carry on.......

love the quote from the POST article......."differs from parents view", as if the author and quotee is self indignant and full of righteousnees.

[MDlaxfan76]

"ass" is not a word that is altered on here.

Well done. And "jerk" will, after all, sometimes suffice.

[cradleandshoot]

Book banning, because the Florida GOP knows better than you what you should be reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... i-picoult/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants you to know he’d never dream of engaging in mass censorship. He held a recent event challenging criticism of his classroom book restrictions as a “hoax,” releasing a video suggesting only “porn” and “hate” are targeted for removal.

There’s a big problem with DeSantis’s claims: The people deciding which books to remove from classrooms and school libraries didn’t get the memo. In many cases, the notion that banned books meet the highly objectionable criteria he detailed is an enormous stretch.

This week, Florida’s Martin County released a list of dozens of books targeted for removal from school libraries, as officials struggle to interpret a bill DeSantis signed in the name of “transparency” in school materials. The episode suggests his decrees are increasingly encouraging local officials to adopt censoring decisions with disturbingly vague rationales and absurdly sweeping scope.

Numerous titles by well-known authors such as Jodi Picoult, Toni Morrison and James Patterson have been pulled from library shelves. The removal list includes Picoult’s novel “The Storyteller” about the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who meets an elderly former SS officer. It contains some violent scenes told in flashbacks from World War II and an assisted suicide.

“Banning ‘The Storyteller’ is shocking, as it is about the Holocaust and has never been banned before,” Picoult told us in an email.

“Martin County is the first to ban twenty of my books at once,” Picoult said, slamming such bans as “a shocking breach of freedom of speech and freedom of information.” A coastal county in the southeastern part of the state, Martin County is heavily Republican.

Picoult said she’s puzzled by the ban, because she does not “write adult romance,” as objections filed against her books claimed.

“Most of the books pulled do not even have a single kiss in them,” Picoult told us. “They do, however, include gay characters, and issues like racism, disability, abortion rights, gun control, and other topics that might make a kid think differently from their parents.”

“We have actual proof that marginalized kids who read books about marginalized characters wind up feeling less alone,” Picoult continued. “Books bridge divides between people. Book bans create them.”

In the case of “The Storyteller” and virtually all the other books by Picoult and others that are getting removed, the county’s removal directive cites guidance from Florida’s Department of Education. It directs educators to “err on the side of caution,” urging them to nix material that they wouldn’t be “comfortable reading aloud.”

The state’s absurdly vague directive seems almost designed to invite abuse, not only by school officials making the decisions, but also by parents who call for removals. Underscoring the point, documents obtained from the county by the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which were shared with us, cite one person as the primary objector to virtually all of these books.

That objector? Julie Marshall, who in addition to being a concerned parent also heads the local chapter of Moms For Liberty, a group that pressures school boards and officials to remove all kinds of materials that violate conservative ideology on race and sexuality.

We emailed Marshall to ask if she was aware of other parents who filed objections to all these books. She didn’t reply. A spokesperson for the Martin County school district pointed out that there’s a process in place governing how these decisions are made.

Other titles getting removed include “Mighty Jack and the Goblin King,” a graphic novel featuring kids traveling through a magic portal and fighting monsters. One citizen (not Marshall this time) filed an objection noting that at one point the sister yells at her brother, “Jack, you ass! Stop it!”

Then there’s “Drama,” a graphic novel about a school play in which a boy who wears a dress as part of the production has an onstage kiss with another boy actor. Just wait until these parents hear about “Twelfth Night.”

Those last two books are apparently being removed only from elementary schools. “But if the rationale to remove the books is as thin as it seems, that alone is egregious,” Jonathan Friedman, who oversees PEN America’s tracking of book bans, told us. “You can’t just remove books from schools because one person objects. That’s absurd. Unfortunately, that’s what seems to have happened here.”

As we’ve detailed, the multiple new laws DeSantis has signed combine deliberately vague directives with the threat of frightening penalties to create a climate of uncertainty and fear. This appears deliberately designed to get school officials to err on the side of censorship, and to get teachers to muzzle themselves to avoid accidentally crossing fuzzy lines into violations of orthodoxy. It invites lone activists to designate themselves veritable commissars of local book purging.

In Martin County, this strategy is unfolding exactly as intended."

But don't worry about it; it is Florida's problem, and not relevant to the Couch Riders of the North.

We've lived in Martin County these past 3 winters.
This isn't like ag country mid-Florida, the Villages, or the panhandle, but it does lean to the right.

DeSantis and the GOP legislature intended these book "bans" or "book purging" to eliminate ALL content the right might find objectionable or concerning under the cover of "parents should control". But clearly this is just extremist right parents that count.

Fear of books. Fascist.

Did they include Mark Twain and Dr Seuss on their FLP hit list?? When was the last public book burning held in Florida?? I read The Catcher in The Rye when I was in HS. The dullest book I read in many years.

[MDlaxfan76]

Book banning, because the Florida GOP knows better than you what you should be reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... i-picoult/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants you to know he’d never dream of engaging in mass censorship. He held a recent event challenging criticism of his classroom book restrictions as a “hoax,” releasing a video suggesting only “porn” and “hate” are targeted for removal.

There’s a big problem with DeSantis’s claims: The people deciding which books to remove from classrooms and school libraries didn’t get the memo. In many cases, the notion that banned books meet the highly objectionable criteria he detailed is an enormous stretch.

This week, Florida’s Martin County released a list of dozens of books targeted for removal from school libraries, as officials struggle to interpret a bill DeSantis signed in the name of “transparency” in school materials. The episode suggests his decrees are increasingly encouraging local officials to adopt censoring decisions with disturbingly vague rationales and absurdly sweeping scope.

Numerous titles by well-known authors such as Jodi Picoult, Toni Morrison and James Patterson have been pulled from library shelves. The removal list includes Picoult’s novel “The Storyteller” about the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who meets an elderly former SS officer. It contains some violent scenes told in flashbacks from World War II and an assisted suicide.

“Banning ‘The Storyteller’ is shocking, as it is about the Holocaust and has never been banned before,” Picoult told us in an email.

“Martin County is the first to ban twenty of my books at once,” Picoult said, slamming such bans as “a shocking breach of freedom of speech and freedom of information.” A coastal county in the southeastern part of the state, Martin County is heavily Republican.

Picoult said she’s puzzled by the ban, because she does not “write adult romance,” as objections filed against her books claimed.

“Most of the books pulled do not even have a single kiss in them,” Picoult told us. “They do, however, include gay characters, and issues like racism, disability, abortion rights, gun control, and other topics that might make a kid think differently from their parents.”

“We have actual proof that marginalized kids who read books about marginalized characters wind up feeling less alone,” Picoult continued. “Books bridge divides between people. Book bans create them.”

In the case of “The Storyteller” and virtually all the other books by Picoult and others that are getting removed, the county’s removal directive cites guidance from Florida’s Department of Education. It directs educators to “err on the side of caution,” urging them to nix material that they wouldn’t be “comfortable reading aloud.”

The state’s absurdly vague directive seems almost designed to invite abuse, not only by school officials making the decisions, but also by parents who call for removals. Underscoring the point, documents obtained from the county by the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which were shared with us, cite one person as the primary objector to virtually all of these books.

That objector? Julie Marshall, who in addition to being a concerned parent also heads the local chapter of Moms For Liberty, a group that pressures school boards and officials to remove all kinds of materials that violate conservative ideology on race and sexuality.

We emailed Marshall to ask if she was aware of other parents who filed objections to all these books. She didn’t reply. A spokesperson for the Martin County school district pointed out that there’s a process in place governing how these decisions are made.

Other titles getting removed include “Mighty Jack and the Goblin King,” a graphic novel featuring kids traveling through a magic portal and fighting monsters. One citizen (not Marshall this time) filed an objection noting that at one point the sister yells at her brother, “Jack, you ass! Stop it!”

Then there’s “Drama,” a graphic novel about a school play in which a boy who wears a dress as part of the production has an onstage kiss with another boy actor. Just wait until these parents hear about “Twelfth Night.”

Those last two books are apparently being removed only from elementary schools. “But if the rationale to remove the books is as thin as it seems, that alone is egregious,” Jonathan Friedman, who oversees PEN America’s tracking of book bans, told us. “You can’t just remove books from schools because one person objects. That’s absurd. Unfortunately, that’s what seems to have happened here.”

As we’ve detailed, the multiple new laws DeSantis has signed combine deliberately vague directives with the threat of frightening penalties to create a climate of uncertainty and fear. This appears deliberately designed to get school officials to err on the side of censorship, and to get teachers to muzzle themselves to avoid accidentally crossing fuzzy lines into violations of orthodoxy. It invites lone activists to designate themselves veritable commissars of local book purging.

In Martin County, this strategy is unfolding exactly as intended."

But don't worry about it; it is Florida's problem, and not relevant to the Couch Riders of the North.

We've lived in Martin County these past 3 winters.
This isn't like ag country mid-Florida, the Villages, or the panhandle, but it does lean to the right.

DeSantis and the GOP legislature intended these book "bans" or "book purging" to eliminate ALL content the right might find objectionable or concerning under the cover of "parents should control". But clearly this is just extremist right parents that count.

Fear of books. Fascist.

Did they include Mark Twain and Dr Seuss on their FLP hit list?? When was the last public book burning held in Florida?? I read The Catcher in The Rye when I was in HS. The dullest book I read in many years.

Huck Finn has faced book bans since it was published in 1885, though initially it was from white southerners who didn't like the "low" dialect, making southern people sound 'low class'. Later in the 50's and subsequently because of the use of the n-word 200 times.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperi ... erry-finn/

There's indeed a bit of overwrought criticism that a white man shouldn't be the source of examine racism, but I agree with this writer that such is a specious argument. That said, I certainly understand the argument that there may be better works for exploring these subjects, by black authors, who could be considered instead. But I sure as heck would not ban Huck Finn...but it probably is best read with in-class discussion or a companion piece addressing the issues.

IMO, any book under threat of a ban is very likely a worthwhile read, albeit with some care to address those aspects folks would naturally find problematic...but it's in the exploration of such that young people, heck all of us, can learn to think critically.

Seuss wrote and illustrated 6 books that, in retrospect, are unavoidably racist or anti-semitic in their characterization and serve no particular purpose other than in a scholarly examination of such books through history. Certainly not appropriate for children, not then, not now...we just recognize it now. More importantly, that's how the Seuss publishing organization, representing the family, sees it now. They're no longer publishing these books. Others are just fine, indeed are wonderful early reads for children.

I imagine you didn't identify with Holden Caulfield?

[runrussellrun]

"ass" is not a word that is altered on here.

Well done. And "jerk" will, after all, sometimes suffice.

Two peas........in the pod ......self evaluations are a complain.

stay classy....

[MDlaxfan76]

Here's another county's list from last summer:

Includes Toni Morrison's Beloved. No Huck Finn.

https://www.metroweekly.com/2022/08/a-f ... ctionable/

[cradleandshoot]

Book banning, because the Florida GOP knows better than you what you should be reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... i-picoult/

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants you to know he’d never dream of engaging in mass censorship. He held a recent event challenging criticism of his classroom book restrictions as a “hoax,” releasing a video suggesting only “porn” and “hate” are targeted for removal.

There’s a big problem with DeSantis’s claims: The people deciding which books to remove from classrooms and school libraries didn’t get the memo. In many cases, the notion that banned books meet the highly objectionable criteria he detailed is an enormous stretch.

This week, Florida’s Martin County released a list of dozens of books targeted for removal from school libraries, as officials struggle to interpret a bill DeSantis signed in the name of “transparency” in school materials. The episode suggests his decrees are increasingly encouraging local officials to adopt censoring decisions with disturbingly vague rationales and absurdly sweeping scope.

Numerous titles by well-known authors such as Jodi Picoult, Toni Morrison and James Patterson have been pulled from library shelves. The removal list includes Picoult’s novel “The Storyteller” about the granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor who meets an elderly former SS officer. It contains some violent scenes told in flashbacks from World War II and an assisted suicide.

“Banning ‘The Storyteller’ is shocking, as it is about the Holocaust and has never been banned before,” Picoult told us in an email.

“Martin County is the first to ban twenty of my books at once,” Picoult said, slamming such bans as “a shocking breach of freedom of speech and freedom of information.” A coastal county in the southeastern part of the state, Martin County is heavily Republican.

Picoult said she’s puzzled by the ban, because she does not “write adult romance,” as objections filed against her books claimed.

“Most of the books pulled do not even have a single kiss in them,” Picoult told us. “They do, however, include gay characters, and issues like racism, disability, abortion rights, gun control, and other topics that might make a kid think differently from their parents.”

“We have actual proof that marginalized kids who read books about marginalized characters wind up feeling less alone,” Picoult continued. “Books bridge divides between people. Book bans create them.”

In the case of “The Storyteller” and virtually all the other books by Picoult and others that are getting removed, the county’s removal directive cites guidance from Florida’s Department of Education. It directs educators to “err on the side of caution,” urging them to nix material that they wouldn’t be “comfortable reading aloud.”

The state’s absurdly vague directive seems almost designed to invite abuse, not only by school officials making the decisions, but also by parents who call for removals. Underscoring the point, documents obtained from the county by the Florida Freedom to Read Project, which were shared with us, cite one person as the primary objector to virtually all of these books.

That objector? Julie Marshall, who in addition to being a concerned parent also heads the local chapter of Moms For Liberty, a group that pressures school boards and officials to remove all kinds of materials that violate conservative ideology on race and sexuality.

We emailed Marshall to ask if she was aware of other parents who filed objections to all these books. She didn’t reply. A spokesperson for the Martin County school district pointed out that there’s a process in place governing how these decisions are made.

Other titles getting removed include “Mighty Jack and the Goblin King,” a graphic novel featuring kids traveling through a magic portal and fighting monsters. One citizen (not Marshall this time) filed an objection noting that at one point the sister yells at her brother, “Jack, you ass! Stop it!”

Then there’s “Drama,” a graphic novel about a school play in which a boy who wears a dress as part of the production has an onstage kiss with another boy actor. Just wait until these parents hear about “Twelfth Night.”

Those last two books are apparently being removed only from elementary schools. “But if the rationale to remove the books is as thin as it seems, that alone is egregious,” Jonathan Friedman, who oversees PEN America’s tracking of book bans, told us. “You can’t just remove books from schools because one person objects. That’s absurd. Unfortunately, that’s what seems to have happened here.”

As we’ve detailed, the multiple new laws DeSantis has signed combine deliberately vague directives with the threat of frightening penalties to create a climate of uncertainty and fear. This appears deliberately designed to get school officials to err on the side of censorship, and to get teachers to muzzle themselves to avoid accidentally crossing fuzzy lines into violations of orthodoxy. It invites lone activists to designate themselves veritable commissars of local book purging.

In Martin County, this strategy is unfolding exactly as intended."

But don't worry about it; it is Florida's problem, and not relevant to the Couch Riders of the North.

We've lived in Martin County these past 3 winters.
This isn't like ag country mid-Florida, the Villages, or the panhandle, but it does lean to the right.

DeSantis and the GOP legislature intended these book "bans" or "book purging" to eliminate ALL content the right might find objectionable or concerning under the cover of "parents should control". But clearly this is just extremist right parents that count.

Fear of books. Fascist.

Did they include Mark Twain and Dr Seuss on their FLP hit list?? When was the last public book burning held in Florida?? I read The Catcher in The Rye when I was in HS. The dullest book I read in many years.

Huck Finn has faced book bans since it was published in 1885, though initially it was from white southerners who didn't like the "low" dialect, making southern people sound 'low class'. Later in the 50's and subsequently because of the use of the n-word 200 times.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperi ... erry-finn/

There's indeed a bit of overwrought criticism that a white man shouldn't be the source of examine racism, but I agree with this writer that such is a specious argument. That said, I certainly understand the argument that there may be better works for exploring these subjects, by black authors, who could be considered instead. But I sure as heck would not ban Huck Finn...but it probably is best read with in-class discussion or a companion piece addressing the issues.

IMO, any book under threat of a ban is very likely a worthwhile read, albeit with some care to address those aspects folks would naturally find problematic...but it's in the exploration of such that young people, heck all of us, can learn to think critically.

Seuss wrote and illustrated 6 books that, in retrospect, are unavoidably racist or anti-semitic in their characterization and serve no particular purpose other than in a scholarly examination of such books through history. Certainly not appropriate for children, not then, not now...we just recognize it now. More importantly, that's how the Seuss publishing organization, representing the family, sees it now. They're no longer publishing these books. Others are just fine, indeed are wonderful early reads for children.

I imagine you didn't identify with Holden Caulfield?

I was more of a John Steinbeck fan in HS. Of Mice and Men was my favorite in HS. All Quiet on the Western Front was an emotional and powerful anti war story.

[old salt]

Why the Dems fear Desantis :

https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/03/ ... ald-trump/

What If Ron DeSantis Is Less Crazy Than Donald Trump?

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, March 10, 2023

For some Republicans, he represents a bridge away from Trump and Trumpism.
There’s a question haunting the minds of political junkies. What if Ron DeSantis is less crazy than Donald Trump?
There are several versions of it, because the semantic range of “crazy” in our politics is especially large.

For people on the left, the prospect of DeSantis has been met with some terror, because they fear he has Trump’s will to power but lacks Trump’s fundamental frivolousness and distractibility. Trump spent hours a day watching television coverage of the Trump administration and tweeting about it, rather than, you know, trying to get the Congress to build his wall, or ban Muslims, or take actual effective steps toward a coup after the 2020 election.

Brynn Tannehill gave voice to this view in the New Republic:
The damage Trump was able to do was limited by his lack of discipline, ignorance of how the system worked, laziness, and lack of motivation. He is simply a narcissist who likes feeling rich, powerful, and important. DeSantis, however, is none of these things. He is not lazy. He has discipline, motivation, and an intimate knowledge of how to use the system to get what he wants.

But there are those who think Trump’s greatest political asset was his craziness. Republican partisans worry about it, and committed Never Trumpers delight in the idea that DeSantis just isn’t crazy enough to win the Republican nomination. DeSantis won’t attack a Gold Star family. He won’t have an Access Hollywood tape. He won’t threaten to put his electoral opponent in jail. He won’t compare buttons with Kim Jong-un.

For them the theory is that the GOP primary electorate is entirely committed to Trumpism as a kind of troll of the existing political class. They are voting for the entertainment of it all — largely indifferent to policy or governance. This is the idea of Trump as post-scarcity political figure. Americans are so accustomed to things working out in the end that they vote for a breaker of norms just for the kick it provides.

The fact is, no one can quite agree on what Ron DeSantis following Donald Trump means. Some who loved Trump’s iconoclastic campaign for president are even more enthusiastic about DeSantis in 2024. They see him as an extension of Trump — more energetic, more competent, and more electable. In some cases, they see him as more populist — on Covid restrictions and vaccines. Other Republicans are going to support DeSantis enthusiastically because for them, DeSantis represents a bridge away from Trump and Trumpism. In their mind he’s a figure who can unite the party. He excites some populist and nationalist Republicans while simultaneously reopening the future leadership of the party to non-populist, non-nationalist factions. At the same time, there are Republicans who still find DeSantis too Trumpy to tolerate. Or not Trumpy enough.

But what if it’s just simpler than all this? I know it’s nuts to posit this, but what if Trump’s “craziness” was an electoral drag? What if that’s what drove people to embrace Ted Cruz as a potential alternative? What if it’s what drove suburban women away from the GOP, since Trump seemed both crude and unstable? What if that explains why Trump did worse among white men in 2020?

What if voters want competence in the execution of policy and administration, and they want someone who demonstrates self-possession?

If all that were true, and we turned our eyes to Ron DeSantis, what would we expect to see?

Well, it might look like Ron DeSantis in 2022 and 2023 — uniting his entire party, holding the affluent suburbs, and even making inroads in the cities while cruising to reelection in a year when other Republicans struggled. It would mean absolutely eye-popping fundraising numbers. It might mean that the Republican Party can benefit from political realignment on one side of the political spectrum — gaining a larger share of working-class voters of all races, while holding a reunion party on the other side, reaching back into the country clubs, and winning more of the white voters it shed in 2020.

Crazy as it sounds.

Desantis flying migrants to Martha's Vineyard was trolling of Biden & the left, but it was remarkably effective trolling that yielded results.