Trump's Russian Collusion

[a fan]

a fan it could be both, so don't get all full of yourself with your gotcha game.

No. No it can't. Either you trust these people, or you don't. You don't get to play this game of yours where you believe them if it sticks it to Hillary, and don't believe them if they're mean to Trump. That's not how logic works.

Page's testimony shows that the FBI was doing their job investigating Hillary and her use of a private server,

Again, these are the same people you insist are corrupt, and need an IP to arrest them, and throw them in jail. You don't get to turn around and trust them when it suits you. Everything they say and do is suspect. As I said before: pick one. It doesn't matter to me which you choose.

but the DOJ gave orders to protect her.

The DoJ is responsible for prosecution. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they didn't think they had enough for a slam dunk conviction? Naaaah. You should strap on the tinfoil with the rest of those who KNOW that Trump colluded with Russia, and instead choose to ignore simpler reasons for what happened during the elections.

You never bought the "collusion" nonsense, why wouldn't you want to find out why/how that lie began?

All us rational Americans have known for years now.

1. US Intel told us Russia was trying to muck with our elections
2. Trump has financial entanglements with Russia
3. Manafort, his campaign chief, has even more messed up financial entanglements in the region
4. Trumps idiots met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on their opponent
5. Flynn discussed removing sanctions before the election with Russian officials.
6. All of the above lied anytime anyone said anything about anything surrounding Russia
7. And most importantly, Trump fired Comey, the man investigating him

Now what you and old salt are selling is, given the above, you think that US Intel should have stood down, and done nothing to protect our country. I'm sorry, but you're both full of it. I don't believe that either of you think that. Our Intel services did their jobs, and you know it.

Further, you both want to pretend that this all wouldn't have blown over after Comey found nothing if Trump didn't stupidly fire Comey. It would have been over months ago. Instead, Trump fans the flames at every turn.

Gee, it's almost as if Trump has benefitted from this non-stop investigating, and is manipulating his base. Naaah. Trump would never abuse your trust like that, tech37 !.

On an unrelated note, what's Trump polling with Republicans these days?

Oh, right. He's at 90% per Gallup for March 2019 among Republicans. Poor guy can't catch a break.

[old salt]

afan wrote :
Now what you and old salt are selling is, given the above, you think that US Intel should have stood down, and done nothing to protect our country. I'm sorry, but you're both full of it. I don't believe that either of you think that. Our Intel services did their jobs, and you know it.

Stop trying to speak for me.

What our IC should have done is keep their investigation to themselves & not leak it to the press. Just like they do for other counter intel investigations. The FBI looked into it & they were not buying what Steele was selling. If this had not been used to damage Trump politically, then we'd never have known about it & it could have been quietly closed, like other counter intel investigations which produce nothing actionable.

There was nothing precluding the DoJ from reopening their previous investigation of Manafort & Gates for financial crimes, based on new evidence provided by the Ukrainians. The indictments of the Russians were grandstanding which will never go to trial & only served to confirm sources & methods which the Russians did not know about. The IC public report to Obama told us what the Russians had done, without divulging unnecessary details.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-doss ... rospective

I don't care who paid Steele. In my world, the truth doesn't depend on who paid for it.... like honor, the truth is a state of being. It's not conditional.

[old salt]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-doss ... rospective

I don't care who paid Steele. In my world, the truth doesn't depend on who paid for it.... like honor, the truth is a state of being. It's not conditional.

Steele got some open source material correct. Big Deal. That's just fodder for innuendo & conspiracy theories.

Are you still waiting for Cohen's Prague hotel mini bar bill ?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/ ... -old-news/

Steele did not discover anything. He simply echoed the narrative that the Clinton campaign was already spouting, folding it into a document that he stamped “intelligence report.” The subsequent investigation by U.S. intelligence agencies, which concluded that Russia was behind the hacking, does not corroborate Steele. He was just repeating what lots of people were saying.

This is the Steele pattern. Where he made original allegations, those claims either cannot be verified or have been convincingly denied: e.g., the pee tape, Page’s meetings in Russia with Putin operatives, the purported Michael Cohen trip to Prague. But where Steele made assertions that are apparently true, they do not involve original discoveries unearthed by his network of sources. Rather, they are either (a) occurrences that were unhidden and easily knowable by anyone (e.g., Page’s very public July 2016 trip to Russia — as to which he was instructed by the Trump campaign that he was on his own, not representing the campaign) or (b) claims that many other people were already making (e.g., that Russia hacked the DNC emails and passed them to WikiLeaks for dissemination).

Steele’s project was not intelligence-gathering. It was the crafting of a campaign narrative about a traitorous Trump–Russia espionage conspiracy, into which new developments were melded as they occurred. That’s why Steele and Simpson peddled the information to the media at the same time Steele was feeding it to the FBI and the Justice Department. Even Steele does not claim his reports were factual; in the British libel proceedings against him, he describes them as “unverified” “raw intelligence” that “warranted further investigation.”

The Clinton campaign’s Steele dossier was the sheer spinning of rank rumor.

[tech37]

a fan it could be both, so don't get all full of yourself with your gotcha game.

No. No it can't. Either you trust these people, or you don't. Trust? What does that have to do with it? I want to find out what happened and why. IMO, you should too. You don't get to play this game of yours where you believe them if it sticks it to Hillary, and don't believe them if they're mean to Trump. That's not how logic works. This is complicated. A lot of stuff going on at same time. You can't just force it all into your two little compartments and then claim you have things figured out. Well, there's logic and then there's a fan logic

Page's testimony shows that the FBI was doing their job investigating Hillary and her use of a private server,

Again, these are the same people you insist are corrupt, and need an IP to arrest them, and throw them in jail. Sorry, all I've insisted on is that we find out how/why things happened...I don't know yet if anyone has broken laws...that's why there needs to be an investigation.You don't get to turn around and trust them when it suits you. Everything they say and do is suspect. As I said before: pick one. It doesn't matter to me which you choose.

but the DOJ gave orders to protect her.

The DoJ is responsible for prosecution. Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they didn't think they had enough for a slam dunk conviction? Of course, that's a possibility but also a very convenient one don't you think? Let's find out. Naaaah. You should strap on the tinfoil with the rest of those who KNOW that Trump colluded with Russia, and instead choose to ignore simpler reasons for what happened during the elections.

You never bought the "collusion" nonsense, why wouldn't you want to find out why/how that lie began?

All us rational Americans have known for years now. Not sure what you're saying here...sarcasm?

[a fan]

afan wrote :
Now what you and old salt are selling is, given the above, you think that US Intel should have stood down, and done nothing to protect our country. I'm sorry, but you're both full of it. I don't believe that either of you think that. Our Intel services did their jobs, and you know it.

Stop trying to speak for me.

What our IC should have done is keep their investigation to themselves & not leak it to the press.

Fine. Play that out. So the FBI and DoJ are secretly investigating the President of the United States and his closest aides for his first two years in office? Then the indictments start falling.

Oh yeah. That sounds MUCH better. Can't foresee any problems there. What's that you say? The President is in charge of the Executive Branch of government?

Problem? What problem?


Can't admit that Trump put our intel services between a rock and hard place. I get it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-doss ... rospective

I don't care who paid Steele. In my world, the truth doesn't depend on who paid for it.... like honor, the truth is a state of being. It's not conditional.

Steele got some open source material correct. Big Deal. That's just fodder for innuendo & conspiracy theories.

Are you still waiting for Cohen's Prague hotel mini bar bill ?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/ ... -old-news/

Steele did not discover anything. He simply echoed the narrative that the Clinton campaign was already spouting, folding it into a document that he stamped “intelligence report.” The subsequent investigation by U.S. intelligence agencies, which concluded that Russia was behind the hacking, does not corroborate Steele. He was just repeating what lots of people were saying.

This is the Steele pattern. Where he made original allegations, those claims either cannot be verified or have been convincingly denied: e.g., the pee tape, Page’s meetings in Russia with Putin operatives, the purported Michael Cohen trip to Prague. But where Steele made assertions that are apparently true, they do not involve original discoveries unearthed by his network of sources. Rather, they are either (a) occurrences that were unhidden and easily knowable by anyone (e.g., Page’s very public July 2016 trip to Russia — as to which he was instructed by the Trump campaign that he was on his own, not representing the campaign) or (b) claims that many other people were already making (e.g., that Russia hacked the DNC emails and passed them to WikiLeaks for dissemination).

Steele’s project was not intelligence-gathering. It was the crafting of a campaign narrative about a traitorous Trump–Russia espionage conspiracy, into which new developments were melded as they occurred. That’s why Steele and Simpson peddled the information to the media at the same time Steele was feeding it to the FBI and the Justice Department. Even Steele does not claim his reports were factual; in the British libel proceedings against him, he describes them as “unverified” “raw intelligence” that “warranted further investigation.”

The Clinton campaign’s Steele dossier was the sheer spinning of rank rumor.

I have no idea and I don't care. You do.

[a fan]

This is complicated. A lot of stuff going on at same time. You can't just force it all into your two little compartments and then claim you have things figured out. Well, there's logic and then there's a fan logic

No, I'm holding you to your own standard. That's "a fan" logic.

You want an IP investigator? Great. I'm all for it. Then you must stop citing the FBI when they say bad stuff about Hillary----according to you, the information they provide is so laughably suspect and corrupted that you are calling for an IP to investigate and arrest them for breaking dozens of laws. Can't have it both ways because it suits you. Everything out of those offices is compromised. Remember that.

I've been for more investigations in Old Salt's "Deep State" this whole time. Go right ahead.

My issue has been Old Salt and others calling for more investigations into the FBI and Hillary, while at the same time saying things like "show me the man, and I'll show you the crime".

Can't have it both ways. So stop doing that.

[Chips O'Toole]

Almost fell out of my chair today when I saw Tulsi Gabbard tweet out: "Short-sighted politicians & media pundits who've spent last 2 years accusing Trump as a Putin puppet have brought us the expensive new Cold War & arms race. How? Because Trump now does everything he can to prove he’s not Putin’s puppet—even if it brings us closer to nuclear war."

How did she get access to RandyRad's old posts on Laxpower?

[old salt]

afan wrote :
Now what you and old salt are selling is, given the above, you think that US Intel should have stood down, and done nothing to protect our country. I'm sorry, but you're both full of it. I don't believe that either of you think that. Our Intel services did their jobs, and you know it.

Stop trying to speak for me.

What our IC should have done is keep their investigation to themselves & not leak it to the press.

Fine. Play that out. So the FBI and DoJ are secretly investigating the President of the United States and his closest aides for his first two years in office? Then the indictments start falling.

Oh yeah. That sounds MUCH better. Can't foresee any problems there. What's that you say? The President is in charge of the Executive Branch of government?

Problem? What problem?
Can't admit that Trump put our intel services between a rock and hard place. I get it.

What indictments needed to fall ? The Russians didn't need to be indicted. It was a PR stunt, They''ll never stand trial.
Manafort & Gates were indicted for stuff from before they hooked up with Trump. That's SDNY &/or EDVA cases, not counter intel.
Stomy could have taken out Cohen with SDNY, leading to his taxi medallion & fraud investigation. That had nothing to do with Russia or counter intel.
Flynn & Papadop were caught up in process crimes generated by the intercept leak & the Mueller probe.
Flynn had already submitted a retroactive FARA filing for his work with Turkey.
Even if nothing comes out of the Mueller probe, the Deep State accomplished their mission by disrupting & undermining the Trump Admin since the transition.

[old salt]

afan wrote :
My issue has been Old Salt and others calling for more investigations into the FBI and Hillary, while at the same time saying things like "show me the man, and I'll show you the crime".

Wrong again. I haven't called for a SC for Clinton or even Trump. I've written off holding Clinton accountable. We know what went down with & for her. I'm content with the IG investigation.

I just want some sort of credible investigation of what went on inside the DOJ, IC & Obama Admin in investigating the Trump campaign & admin.
I don't care if it's a SC, US Atty Huber, or IG Horowitz. I just want a credible investigation that identifies the bad actors, however many or few there were. We may already know all of their names & some of them may have been acting in good faith. But we need to know what happened & why, & how they exercised their powers of office.

[old salt]

Almost fell out of my chair today when I saw Tulsi Gabbard tweet out: "Short-sighted politicians & media pundits who've spent last 2 years accusing Trump as a Putin puppet have brought us the expensive new Cold War & arms race. How? Because Trump now does everything he can to prove he’s not Putin’s puppet—even if it brings us closer to nuclear war."

How did she get access to RandyRad's old posts on Laxpower?

.. Smart Congress member & savvy war veteran. Pelosi will give her another time out.

[a fan]

What indictments needed to fall ?

The Russians, obviously. Can't have them traveling freely in the US. Can't have our politicians or citizens interacting with them.

Manafort, obviously. Because for all we know, he'd still be a felon working in the White House.

But sticking to my point, you think we could keep a year long clandestine foreign intel investigation into a sitting President under wraps? Not one person interviewed would leak? Really?

And what if Trump got wind of it first, and leaked it? Or anyone else. Now what?

Our intel was put between a rock and a hard place. Our system isn't designed for the ridiculousness of Trump without some major damage.

Hell, the man STILL has all his business conflicts, and so do his kids, and so does Kushner who's laughably out there wheeling and dealing in the ME. Elections have consequences.

[old salt]

What indictments needed to fall ?

The Russians, obviously. Can't have them traveling freely in the US. Can't have our politicians or citizens interacting with them.
Didn't have to indict them to deny entry to US. Didn't need a SC. Any US Atty working with IC could have indicted them. Kept it secret, under seal, not revealing the intel sources & methods upon which they were based.

Manafort, obviously. Because for all we know, he'd still be a felon working in the White House.
SDNY &/or EDVA could prosecute him for crimes unrelated to the Trump campaign. Trump dropped Manafort like a hot rock after the convention when the Ukrainian cash ledgers surfaced. Trump didn't get along with Manafort. Just tolerated him to run the convention & keep the delegates in line. Javanka didn't like Manafort. Read Woodward's book.

But sticking to my point, you think we could keep a year long clandestine foreign intel investigation into a sitting President under wraps? Not one person interviewed would leak? Really?
It didn't need to be a year long. There was no there there. Read the Strzok-Page texts. They feared it was a nothingburger & had reservations about joining Team Mueller. Trump wouldn't have fired Comey if Yates, Comey & McCabe hadn't ambushed Flynn, after leaking his intercept to the WP. They were determined to take out Flynn. He was the appetizer.

And what if Trump got wind of it first, and leaked it? Or anyone else. Now what?
They didn't, until the FBI lovebirds texts. When's the first time you heard about Crossfire Hurricane ? Or Rosenstein wearing a wire ? Nothing was confirmed until McCabe started his book tour. Your hypotheticals are whacky.

Our intel was put between a rock and a hard place. Our system isn't designed for the ridiculousness of Trump without some major damage.
That's BS. They do counter intel investigations all the time that don't leak. We wouldn't have heard about this if Steele, Simpson, Brennan, Reid, & McCain's staffer Kramer hadn't been handing out copies of the dossier on DC street corners.

Hell, the man STILL has all his business conflicts, and so do his kids, and so does Kushner who's laughably out there wheeling and dealing in the ME. Elections have consequences. So vote him out of office or impeach him for those things, but don't politicize & corrupt our law enforcement & IC just to take him out. Or start another dangerous Cold War, like Major Tulsi warns us.

[Trinity]

Trump’s too busy Tweet fighting John McCain and Kate McKinnon to do his basic job. Where’s the new Sec Def? Ambassadors to critical nations? Report on The Khashoggi murder? He alone....This is bonkers.

[dislaxxic]

WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER.

By a country mile. No way he gets re-elected. American electorate is not THAT stupid and uninformed.

..

[frmanfan]

WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER.

By a country mile. No way he gets re-elected. American electorate is not THAT stupid and uninformed.

..

Says the man who assured us HRC was going to win in 2018.

It is very hard to predict the future, dis, but you keep on trying.

[dislaxxic]

The LP archives are there for any enterprising researcher to see...dis was not a fan of HRC becoming the nominee way back before it happened, primarily because of the baggage she carried and the virulent HRC derangement syndrome that existed (and still exists) on the rabid right. No one in the world, including The Don himself, thought this cracker would win. Well, maybe Vlad knew it. I never thought Shrub would win a second term either, and it's a major shame that he did...just shows to go ya how gullible and uninformed the American electorate is, especially in flyover country, like the Steel City suburbs.

..

[Trinity]

https://www.propublica.org/article/fede ... ring-probe

Maybe this explains the Tweetstorm coming from 1600. The Feds searched Broidy. Forget the White House—this scandal has reached Mara Lago.
And tomorrow we’ll see the Cohen search warrant and probable cause documents.

[dislaxxic]

Back in the day, certain LP mods would gather up "like" posts and put them together in a new place.

We really need separate threads for...

SDNY
New York AG Investigates The Don
The Trump Foundation
Trump Inauguration Committee
Porn Stars and Mob Family Bosses
TTD (Trump Tweet Derangement)
Mar-A-Lago Follies
The Jared and Ivanks SchhitShow
Eric and Donnie Junior Emulate Dad
The Presidential Lie Aggregator

What am i missing??

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