All things CoronaVirus

[wgdsr]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

[Peter Brown]

What predictable anti-Fox nonsense, untethered to real numbers, and frankly, the very definition of misinformation.

Is ‘right wing media’ responsible for the disproportionately high percentage of black and Latino Covid deaths?

Thinking is hard.

Pete.....is this site a left or right wing media site?

It's neither. Yet we have you here, spewing right wing talking points on a daily basis.

Same thing happens everywhere on the internet, Pete. Twitter isn't left or right. Facebook isn't left or right. Reddit.

Or how about the comment section for the Denver Post?


Ever hear the term "it went viral"? That.

The disinformation starts with right wing sites......and I'm tired of people pretending like that's not where it's coming from.

But the disinformation goes in all directions, to all sites.

I find it hilarious that I have to explain how social media works to people on a social media site.

I feel a sense of sadness when I see a guy who clearly has no idea how painfully long and how brutally often he’s been lied to.

You can start with Walter Cronkite, to Dan Rather, to Peter Jennings, to the entirety of the modern mainstream media, and I assure you, the greatest source of disinformation/misinformation ever in the history of mankind had been the mainstream media you gobble up.

Our mainstream media is both the obedient mouthpiece of the state, and it’s also a DNC friendly hitching post for journos. I won’t list the hundreds of journalists and media execs who use the revolving media door for work at the DNC, nor will I list the ungodly number of ex DOJ, FBI, CIA, and NSA officials who sit every night on mainstream media beguiling listeners like yourself who are remarkably gullible to their elitist pleadings (“defend Ukraine!!!!”).

Right wing media, to the extent you can define it (which today, to most Democrats, simply means whatever Tucker and Hannity say), has been the one thing that promoted independent thought, for the common person to say what was plainly obvious, but always unspoken. RW media has been the only bulwark against outright totalitarianism, and remain so today. RW media allowed new outlets like Rumble and Substack to get going…and thankfully they aren’t going back in the genie bottle,

While Canada seizes bank accounts of regular people who gave money to the truckers in Canada, you smugly claim that it’s RW media who misinform while left wing media (can I call it that?) literally are egging on the Canadian state to seize truckers’ bank accounts. Ummm, maybe that’s not misinformation but it’s clearly not journalism. Ayfkm@?!?

I guess it’s worth reminding folks that more Democrats watch Tucker Carlson than watch any other program on television. That should tell you what you’re unwilling to admit.

[MDlaxfan76]

yup, off the hook batsh-t crazy times, personified by our gator.

[a fan]

I feel a sense of sadness when I see a guy who clearly has no idea how painfully long and how brutally often he’s been lied to.

Oh, Pete, are you and that socialist degree of yours going to lecture me about not understanding how media works? Neat.

You can start with Walter Cronkite, to Dan Rather, to Peter Jennings, to the entirety of the modern mainstream media, and I assure you, the greatest source of disinformation/misinformation ever in the history of mankind had been the mainstream media you gobble up.

I didn't watch any of those talking heads, my man. I was too young, and was too busy playing lacrosse and soccer to watch them. My Aunt got me a subscription to the Sunday NYTimes when I was still in Junior High. Best investment she ever made. Big help on my SAT's, too.

Our mainstream media is both the obedient mouthpiece of the state, and it’s also a DNC friendly hitching post for journos. I won’t list the hundreds of journalists and media execs who use the revolving media door for work at the DNC, nor will I list the ungodly number of ex DOJ, FBI, CIA, and NSA officials who sit every night on mainstream media beguiling listeners like yourself who are remarkably gullible to their elitist pleadings (“defend Ukraine!!!!”).

Right Pete. You were a media savant as a kida....and attended UFlorida? Everyone here knows doggone well that you mailed it in in HS, and that's why you wound up traveling 1000 miles to attend a State school. Who does that? Oh, right....rich kids who didn't crack a book in High School. Dime a dozen. You should have attended CU Boulder with all the trust fund kids with 2.0 GPA's. You would have fit in great.

Right wing media, to the extent you can define it (which today, to most Democrats, simply means whatever Tucker and Hannity say), has been the one thing that promoted independent thought

"The other guy's media" lies to me.....but "my media" doesn't.

This explains your entire world view in one run-on sentence, Pete. Tucker will set you free, Pete.

While Canada seizes bank accounts of regular people who gave money to the truckers in Canada, you smugly claim that it’s RW media who misinform

Misinform about Covid? Yep. You bet. Why don't you rub some invermectin on your head, Pete. Tucker says that it gets rid of headaches, too. So as you say, it must be true.

I guess it’s worth reminding folks that more Democrats watch Tucker Carlson than watch any other program on television. That should tell you what you’re unwilling to admit.

Yes. It tells me that people like you are willing to pay for media to tell you what you want to hear. Things like UFlorida isn't socialism.

[a fan]

I won’t list the hundreds of journalists and media execs who use the revolving media door for work at the DNC, nor will I list the ungodly number of ex DOJ, FBI, CIA, and NSA officials who sit every night on mainstream media beguiling listeners like yourself who are remarkably gullible to their elitist pleadings (“defend Ukraine!!!!”).s that more Democrats watch Tucker Carlson than watch any other program on television. That should tell you what you’re unwilling to admit.

Yep, that's me, alright. The guy who wants to defend Ukraine. Good thing you're here to straighten me out.


Pete, you need to take a Xanax and calm down, my man. If you type any more breathless statements that are so perfectly wrong, you might pass out.

[jhu72]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

Laughing at your feigned obtuseness.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

[Typical Lax Dad]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

[a fan]

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school.

Right. So that eliminates both "they don't like .gov mandates" and "they don't trust the government" as reasons for not taking the vaccine.

Because plainly they're fine with .gov mandates and trusting the government.....or the vaxx rates would be nowhere near 90%+, regardless of demographic.

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that.

Sure. Again, this is my point: where do Americans get these numbers from? Their doctor? No. The library? No. The internet. Yup. And that's also where they come across all the disinformation.

throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

Yes. And now we're back to: explain to my why they have an opinion about the Covid vaxx..while at the same time, have ZERO opinion on any of the K-12 and University mandated vaccines.

Example? One of the meningitis vaccines was first approved in 2012. One of the complaints about the Covid vaxx, is that people think we have no way of knowing if there are "long term" problems.

Well----you have to apply the same logic with meningitis. Heck, do we REALLY know if that vaccine doesn't cause reproductive problems? Or maybe it accelerates dementia, no? It's only 10 years old, and 18yo kids are taking it..how could we REALLY know?

And yet no one is complaining about meningitis vaccines. The reason for this is obvious....it ain't covered in by media and the internet. So no one cares, and parents are sending their kids to college, without question, and having their kids get a harmless, painless vaccine so they can attend.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Yes. And these rural communities in Colorado do both. But they're rebelling against vaccines as they watch the people in their community die from it. Something changed. You think it's a mystery. I don't understand why it's so hard to understand what's new...

But yep, agree to disagree. We're good.

[wgdsr]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

[MDlaxfan76]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

Are you referring to me?

I was clear that poverty matters, in a variety of ways. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. However, the question was why blacks and hispanics have suffered disproportionate to their share of the overall population and my answer is that they also are disproportionate among the most poor, and therefore with disproportionately bad access to healthy food, health services, dense housing, and need to go to work with lots of public contact.

That made a heck of a difference during the first phase, prior to vaccines, and still does.

But what has overwhelmed this differential has been the disinformation that has been disproportionately right wing, thus impacting disproportionately those populations more likely to vote "Trump" etc. Politicians and media on the right have been actively advocating for distrust of federal public health experts. Not the same from the MSM and most Dem politicians.

So, poverty still matters, but there's been a big shift in who is most impacted.

And I quite clearly indicated that the better educated, wealthier members of the 'right' have a quite different situation than their less affluent brethren on the right. No need to call anyone "rednecks", it's just a reality that, since last April, rural, poor whites have been getting crushed, largely because they have been told to refuse to be vaccinated, refused to wear masks, and the like....and they bought into it, just like they bought into so much disinformation spewed by the hard right media and politicians.

But sure, there's distrust of government amongst black and hispanic families too. No doubt. Get screwed over enough and it's tough to have a lot of confidence. But it's nowhere near the kind of level that has been spawned on the hard right.

[get it to x]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

Are you referring to me?

I was clear that poverty matters, in a variety of ways. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. However, the question was why blacks and hispanics have suffered disproportionate to their share of the overall population and my answer is that they also are disproportionate among the most poor, and therefore with disproportionately bad access to healthy food, health services, dense housing, and need to go to work with lots of public contact.

That made a heck of a difference during the first phase, prior to vaccines, and still does.

But what has overwhelmed this differential has been the disinformation that has been disproportionately right wing, thus impacting disproportionately those populations more likely to vote "Trump" etc. Politicians and media on the right have been actively advocating for distrust of federal public health experts. Not the same from the MSM and most Dem politicians.

So, poverty still matters, but there's been a big shift in who is most impacted.

And I quite clearly indicated that the better educated, wealthier members of the 'right' have a quite different situation than their less affluent brethren on the right. No need to call anyone "rednecks", it's just a reality that, since last April, rural, poor whites have been getting crushed, largely because they have been told to refuse to be vaccinated, refused to wear masks, and the like....and they bought into it, just like they bought into so much disinformation spewed by the hard right media and politicians.

But sure, there's distrust of government amongst black and hispanic families too. No doubt. Get screwed over enough and it's tough to have a lot of confidence. But it's nowhere near the kind of level that has been spawned on the hard right.

Have the government run a secret, long term syphilis experiment on you and you might be a little shy to a government driven vaccine as well.

[MDlaxfan76]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

Are you referring to me?

I was clear that poverty matters, in a variety of ways. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. However, the question was why blacks and hispanics have suffered disproportionate to their share of the overall population and my answer is that they also are disproportionate among the most poor, and therefore with disproportionately bad access to healthy food, health services, dense housing, and need to go to work with lots of public contact.

That made a heck of a difference during the first phase, prior to vaccines, and still does.

But what has overwhelmed this differential has been the disinformation that has been disproportionately right wing, thus impacting disproportionately those populations more likely to vote "Trump" etc. Politicians and media on the right have been actively advocating for distrust of federal public health experts. Not the same from the MSM and most Dem politicians.

So, poverty still matters, but there's been a big shift in who is most impacted.

And I quite clearly indicated that the better educated, wealthier members of the 'right' have a quite different situation than their less affluent brethren on the right. No need to call anyone "rednecks", it's just a reality that, since last April, rural, poor whites have been getting crushed, largely because they have been told to refuse to be vaccinated, refused to wear masks, and the like....and they bought into it, just like they bought into so much disinformation spewed by the hard right media and politicians.

But sure, there's distrust of government amongst black and hispanic families too. No doubt. Get screwed over enough and it's tough to have a lot of confidence. But it's nowhere near the kind of level that has been spawned on the hard right.

Have the government run a secret, long term syphilis experiment on you and you might be a little shy to a government driven vaccine as well.

Yup. And a whole lot of other 'trials'...poor black folks as guinea pigs. Typically with no disclosure. Only thing worse was testing on black prisoners.

Yes, a very long time ago, but memories are long too.

[Typical Lax Dad]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

Because they only care about who is in their home, not thinking beyond themselves

2 out of 100 is the more appropriate number for COVID-19 deaths….so the kids chance would be 1 out of 333 in your scenario.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

Are you referring to me?

I was clear that poverty matters, in a variety of ways. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. However, the question was why blacks and hispanics have suffered disproportionate to their share of the overall population and my answer is that they also are disproportionate among the most poor, and therefore with disproportionately bad access to healthy food, health services, dense housing, and need to go to work with lots of public contact.

That made a heck of a difference during the first phase, prior to vaccines, and still does.

But what has overwhelmed this differential has been the disinformation that has been disproportionately right wing, thus impacting disproportionately those populations more likely to vote "Trump" etc. Politicians and media on the right have been actively advocating for distrust of federal public health experts. Not the same from the MSM and most Dem politicians.

So, poverty still matters, but there's been a big shift in who is most impacted.

And I quite clearly indicated that the better educated, wealthier members of the 'right' have a quite different situation than their less affluent brethren on the right. No need to call anyone "rednecks", it's just a reality that, since last April, rural, poor whites have been getting crushed, largely because they have been told to refuse to be vaccinated, refused to wear masks, and the like....and they bought into it, just like they bought into so much disinformation spewed by the hard right media and politicians.

But sure, there's distrust of government amongst black and hispanic families too. No doubt. Get screwed over enough and it's tough to have a lot of confidence. But it's nowhere near the kind of level that has been spawned on the hard right.

Have the government run a secret, long term syphilis experiment on you and you might be a little shy to a government driven vaccine as well.

Yup. And a whole lot of other 'trials'...poor black folks as guinea pigs. Typically with no disclosure. Only thing worse was testing on black prisoners.

Yes, a very long time ago, but memories are long too.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ical-abuse

A very long time ago …..like August 2021.

[MDlaxfan76]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.

Are you referring to me?

I was clear that poverty matters, in a variety of ways. That goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, whatever. However, the question was why blacks and hispanics have suffered disproportionate to their share of the overall population and my answer is that they also are disproportionate among the most poor, and therefore with disproportionately bad access to healthy food, health services, dense housing, and need to go to work with lots of public contact.

That made a heck of a difference during the first phase, prior to vaccines, and still does.

But what has overwhelmed this differential has been the disinformation that has been disproportionately right wing, thus impacting disproportionately those populations more likely to vote "Trump" etc. Politicians and media on the right have been actively advocating for distrust of federal public health experts. Not the same from the MSM and most Dem politicians.

So, poverty still matters, but there's been a big shift in who is most impacted.

And I quite clearly indicated that the better educated, wealthier members of the 'right' have a quite different situation than their less affluent brethren on the right. No need to call anyone "rednecks", it's just a reality that, since last April, rural, poor whites have been getting crushed, largely because they have been told to refuse to be vaccinated, refused to wear masks, and the like....and they bought into it, just like they bought into so much disinformation spewed by the hard right media and politicians.

But sure, there's distrust of government amongst black and hispanic families too. No doubt. Get screwed over enough and it's tough to have a lot of confidence. But it's nowhere near the kind of level that has been spawned on the hard right.

Have the government run a secret, long term syphilis experiment on you and you might be a little shy to a government driven vaccine as well.

Yup. And a whole lot of other 'trials'...poor black folks as guinea pigs. Typically with no disclosure. Only thing worse was testing on black prisoners.

Yes, a very long time ago, but memories are long too.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ical-abuse

A very long time ago …..like August 2021.

Good point.

[wgdsr]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

Because they only care about who is in their home, not thinking beyond themselves

2 out of 100 is the more appropriate number for COVID-19 deaths….so the kids chance would be 1 out of 333 in your scenario.

overall case fatality is about 0.5% ish, not 2%.

probably somewhere around 60-70% of kids have gotten covid.
between ages 5 and 18 there have been 650 or so deaths. between 5 and 11 my guess about 300, probably lower.

300:17,000,000-20,000,000 = 1 out of 56,666 to 66,666.

and yeah. that's only considering one car crashes, not multiple cars.

[Typical Lax Dad]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

Because they only care about who is in their home, not thinking beyond themselves

2 out of 100 is the more appropriate number for COVID-19 deaths….so the kids chance would be 1 out of 333 in your scenario.

overall case fatality is about 0.5% ish, not 2%.

probably somewhere around 60-70% of kids have gotten covid.
between ages 5 and 18 there have been 650 or so deaths. between 5 and 11 my guess about 300, probably lower.

300:17,000,000-20,000,000 = 1 out of 56,666 to 66,666.

and yeah. that's only considering one car crashes, not multiple cars.

I am using resolved cases BTW…..dead people…. not people with long term health problems because of COVID….60-70% of all kids have had COVID-19? Your multiple for kids was too low actually as .4% of COVID-19 Deaths have been children….this doesn’t include long term health problems.

[wgdsr]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

Because they only care about who is in their home, not thinking beyond themselves

2 out of 100 is the more appropriate number for COVID-19 deaths….so the kids chance would be 1 out of 333 in your scenario.

overall case fatality is about 0.5% ish, not 2%.

probably somewhere around 60-70% of kids have gotten covid.
between ages 5 and 18 there have been 650 or so deaths. between 5 and 11 my guess about 300, probably lower.

300:17,000,000-20,000,000 = 1 out of 56,666 to 66,666.

and yeah. that's only considering one car crashes, not multiple cars.

I am using resolved cases.

i know. you won't stop.

even still, kids 5 and 11 have a ~333 fold less likely chance of dying than the average american. which is 1 in 200.

[Typical Lax Dad]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

ok, if you're forcing me to guess as you're guessing -- you're looking at it wrong.

we're 90% on other vaxxes in part because that's what they need to get into school. lots of parents follow their pediatrician's advice, do the schedule, yada. not all of them do.

when they find out what they have to do (or if it's told to them in year 2 or 4 that's what they'll have to have)... boom. vaccinate them. they don't wantonly go into doctor's offices saying i heard there's a mumps vaccine out there available now, where do i sign up?

is the covid vaccine mandatory for attending k-12 @ this time like those other vaccines you talk about?

next, you can call it misinformation all day long, but that won't change how the numbers for bad outcomes are exponentially higher in older people than younger people. our vaccination rates reflect that. throw in the social and educational cost that we have put on kids, and there's little doubt this isn't any old generic vaccine.... people have an opinion on the whole covid thing, vs none in the case of other vaxxes attached to a disease.

and baking cookies is different than pulling someone out of a burning building.

Old people spreading all that virus to each other? Is that your conclusion?

no, if you told someone they had a 1 in 200 chance of dying by driving to work today, they might stay home.

if someone's kid had a 1 in 66,666 chance of the same driving to school, they might tell them to go to school.

Because they only care about who is in their home, not thinking beyond themselves

2 out of 100 is the more appropriate number for COVID-19 deaths….so the kids chance would be 1 out of 333 in your scenario.

overall case fatality is about 0.5% ish, not 2%.

probably somewhere around 60-70% of kids have gotten covid.
between ages 5 and 18 there have been 650 or so deaths. between 5 and 11 my guess about 300, probably lower.

300:17,000,000-20,000,000 = 1 out of 56,666 to 66,666.

and yeah. that's only considering one car crashes, not multiple cars.

I am using resolved cases.

i know. you won't stop.

even still, kids 5 and 11 have a ~333 fold less likely chance of dying than the average american. which is 1 in 200.

Well we ain’t talking about average Americans dying from
average deaths. You open up a covid case, when it closes 2 out of 100 die. It’s simple. 0.4% of COVID-19 deaths are kids. Not many, but long term health issues are a concern until it’s not….

[wgdsr]

you're a smart guy. do you believe we have missed as many deaths as a % as we've missed covid cases or are you just trying to drive me crazy?

i used deaths as an example. i'm aware there are other possible issues. or at least now i am?