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Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:57 pm
by Peter Brown
Thank you. If I’m reading that correctly, the vaccine has been out for at least a decade?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:11 pm
by wgdsr
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:08 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:43 pm
1st, there were discussions that came about, both thru the available media and anecdotally. we didn't just come out of the dark ages.
Yes. And as I said, if this is the basis, you have to explain that 90%+ vaccine rate for K-12. Obviously this old media didn't have the same effect on vaccination rates.
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:27 am
notwithstanding that... you also want it to be the right wing non-truthers who are driving what you don't accept as the "right choice". regardless of who is actually making these choices. i can't keep up, i thought it was only red people and counties/states who were rubes?
Now I know why you're pushing back....I'm saying "internet", and you're ignoring that, and pulling from posts I made months ago that the right is driving the anti-vaxx bus. You're welcome to do that....but that's where we aren't connecting with one another here.
So focusing on my past posts.......what I HAVE told you is that CovidVaxx rates are FAR lower in rural, Republican run Counties all across our country. And unless you want to play dumb, BY FAR the folks throwing around Covid disinformation is coming from the right. It's not even a close call.
That said? OF COURSE folks all over the political spectrum are on the internet, passing this disinformation around. To quote Michael Jordan, "Republicans buy sneakers, too". In other words, everyone has a hand on the nonsense on the internet.
And the Dems have had their hand in the disinformation-------Biden and Kamala's INEXCUSABLE nonsense about not trusting a vaccine that Trump approved.
But yes, come on.....the right is driving the bus on the disinformation. Surely we can agree on that, just as easily as I can agree that yes, the left and center have had their hand.
In fact, I pointed out that pre-2020, Vaccine-stupidity was fully the domain of left-wing nutjobs in places like Boulder.
And yep, I know a TON of right wingers who are fully vaccinated, and boosted. Hopefully this clears up the misunderstanding.
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:43 pm
as far as the pediatrician comments... you'll have to excuse me for being an ethical skeptic here in not knowing what is said in those conversations.
That's the reduction to absurdity I was alluding to in a previous post. Yep, you're right, I'm not in the exam room with every conversation that takes place. Guilty.
Now on the less reductionist front....here's the position from the American Association of Pediatricians:
The American Academy of Pediatrics supports today’s recommendation by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to recommend the use of a COVID-19 vaccine in children ages 5-11. The AAP urges families to check with their pediatrician and community health care providers about how to get their eligible children vaccinated, pending a final recommendation from the CDC.
Vaccinating children will protect children’s health and allow them to fully engage in all of the activities that are so important to their health and development. Parents can enjoy greater peace of mind gathering with family members this winter and sending their children to school, sports and other events that were paused during the height of the pandemic.
Does that sound to you like pediatricians are on the fence?
https://www.aap.org/en/news-room/news-r ... ages-5-11/
months ago? i told you why i jumped in. maybe review posts from the last 24 hours or so?
i saw something that doesn't correlate to that narrative. you insist it does, and that susie in darien or boulder jumps on red twitter or facebook just for this advice.
and... again... you seem to be confirming your stance on that above yet again. my convo here was -- even if and when this info is sourced more frequently from one side -- how is it susie is lapping that side's case up? that makes no sense to me. is she now vulnerable to be picked off in november? after all, this is her kids' health, that's just a vote.
my novice read on aap (which isn't to be trusted as to how each physician deals with their patients)? looks boilerplate.
i don't think it's absurd for me to be bewildered how anyone let alone us knows how docs are advising individual patients. my achilles, fwiw, is when peeps throw out things like 100%, we know, etc.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
by wgdsr
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:25 pm
by a fan
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:11 pm
my convo here was -- even if and when this info is sourced more frequently from one side -- how is it susie is lapping that side's case up?
That's sort of the entire ball game: how do you tell on the internet who or what authored a post/article/essay....and what their political bent is?
You can't. So sometimes Susie will read content coming from Russian bots. And from right, left, center commenters. It's impossible to tell who writes what.
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:11 pm
is she now vulnerable to be picked off in november?
You bet. IMHO, Dems are going to pay dearly for Covid restrictions....because who the F like restrictions? Citizens, by and large, aren't going to be grateful for live saved, imo.
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:11 pm
my novice read on aap (which isn't to be trusted as to how each physician deals with their patients)? looks boilerplate.
That's because it is. And you can't write something boilerplate for your members if there's a ton of dissenting opinions. There'd be public backlash.
But again, you're right. I'm not in the room with patients and doctors.
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:11 pm
i don't think it's absurd for me to be bewildered how anyone let alone us knows how docs are advising individual patients. my achilles, fwiw, is when peeps throw out things like 100%, we know, etc.
I understand and respect this. But if you put caveats and disclaimers on every post.....the content here would be unreadable real quick, imo. I'll work toward finding a better happy medium.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:27 pm
by NattyBohChamps04
Here's an interesting Spotify podcast going over the Joe Rogan / Malone misinformation interview and the misinformation coming out in general.
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/49hngng
Full transcript here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2P ... tKzTUV/pub
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:31 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Do you believe this guy made no difference at all? I believe he made a difference. I believe what Biden says makes a difference. You believe what Biden says makes no difference at all?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:39 pm
by wgdsr
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Do you believe this guy made no difference at all? I believe he made a difference. I believe what Biden says makes a difference. You believe what he says makes no difference at all?
i feel like a pinball. i say that bc messages matter was what i was told mattered in 2020, i'm a moron for thinking that now.
then i say i'd like to see some actions that make sense, and i'm told that we shouldn't rely on ole joe or the gov'ts actions. can't stop stupid. but words matter. it's like crazytown here.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:42 pm
by old salt
Bart wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:29 am
Makes me wonder what would the vaccine uptake be for COVID if the virus targeted children and not predominantly the old and those with comorbidities. My guess.......and it is only a guess.......vaccine uptake would be much higher.
That's my point. People & parents do their own risk assessment, factoring in their vulnerability.
Early on, it made sense to vax everyone to stop the spread. Now that the vax is available to everyone & proven to work, & it's virtually impossible to stop the spread of Omicron (which confers some immunity), it's a whole new risk assessment, especially for parents who have to decide for their kids.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:57 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Do you believe this guy made no difference at all? I believe he made a difference. I believe what Biden says makes a difference. You believe what he says makes no difference at all?
i feel like a pinball. i say that bc messages
matter was what i was told mattered in 2020, i'm a moron for thinking that now.
then i say
i'd like to see some actions that make sense, and i'm told that we shouldn't
rely on ole joe or the gov'ts actions. can't stop stupid. but words matter. it's like crazytown here.
Those two words 'matter' and 'rely' don't mean the same thing. It is a logic fail. "Like to see actions that make sense" applies to both ole Joe and The Donald. That is logical and perfectly reasonable. The arc of the virus under the two administrations was also different so not quite apples to apples. Again, do
YOU believe Trump and Biden's words don't matter at all? It's a simple question. We can get to caveats later.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:09 pm
by wgdsr
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:57 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Do you believe this guy made no difference at all? I believe he made a difference. I believe what Biden says makes a difference. You believe what he says makes no difference at all?
i feel like a pinball. i say that bc messages
matter was what i was told mattered in 2020, i'm a moron for thinking that now.
then i say
i'd like to see some actions that make sense, and i'm told that we shouldn't
rely on ole joe or the gov'ts actions. can't stop stupid. but words matter. it's like crazytown here.
Those two words 'matter' and 'rely' don't mean the same thing. It is a logic fail. "Like to see actions that make sense" applies to both ole Joe and The Donald. That is logical and perfectly reasonable. The arc of the virus under the two administrations was also different so not quite apples to apples. Again, do
YOU believe Trump and Biden's words don't matter at all? It's a simple question. We can get to caveats later.
i believe they matter. evidently though, i'm not allowed to say that with a video dated in the last year.
if you're asking whether trump's words from 2 years ago shape the actual number we're seeing now being discussed? it's non-zero but it's not 76% (imo!!!).
ftr, you were the one that inferred i relied on joe to protect me when positing what i considered failed policy. this was literally in the last couple days. should i quote it? and now you want the government to protect you with mandates.
#amidoingthisrite
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:54 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:57 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:13 pm
crazy that the mums and dads of westchester and fairfield are still listening to this guy.
Do you believe this guy made no difference at all? I believe he made a difference. I believe what Biden says makes a difference. You believe what he says makes no difference at all?
i feel like a pinball. i say that bc messages
matter was what i was told mattered in 2020, i'm a moron for thinking that now.
then i say
i'd like to see some actions that make sense, and i'm told that we shouldn't
rely on ole joe or the gov'ts actions. can't stop stupid. but words matter. it's like crazytown here.
Those two words 'matter' and 'rely' don't mean the same thing. It is a logic fail. "Like to see actions that make sense" applies to both ole Joe and The Donald. That is logical and perfectly reasonable. The arc of the virus under the two administrations was also different so not quite apples to apples. Again, do
YOU believe Trump and Biden's words don't matter at all? It's a simple question. We can get to caveats later.
i believe they matter. evidently though, i'm not allowed to say that with a video dated in the last year.
if you're asking whether trump's words from 2 years ago shape the actual number we're seeing now being discussed? it's non-zero but it's not 76% (imo!!!).
ftr, you were the one that inferred i relied on joe to protect me when positing what i considered failed policy. this was literally in the last couple days. should i quote it? and now you want the government to protect you with mandates.
#amidoingthisrite
I will go back and get the context. As I believe you were not talking about yourself but speaking for others. That was last week. So Joe’s words matter to you but what Donald said had no bearing on how people responded and continued to respond? Liberate your state…..and I don’t believe all these people aren’t getting vaccinated just because of what Donald said..but I am sure that isn’t what you believe either…..
What could possibly be the reason why counties that Trump won has less vaccination uptake? Coincidence?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:56 pm
by youthathletics
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:42 pm
Bart wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:29 am
Makes me wonder what would the vaccine uptake be for COVID if the virus targeted children and not predominantly the old and those with comorbidities. My guess.......and it is only a guess.......vaccine uptake would be much higher.
That's my point. People & parents do their own risk assessment, factoring in their vulnerability.
Early on, it made sense to vax everyone to stop the spread. Now that the vax is available to everyone & proven to work, & it's virtually impossible to stop the spread of Omicron (which confers some immunity), it's a whole new risk assessment, especially for parents who have to decide for their kids.
kids are dropping like flies, dr's offices have lines out the door...haven't you seen it, hospitals are putting two kids in one bed,
its anarchy.
jabbing the kids at this point is primarily for one reason.....to keep teachers in the school. its also the primary reason they wont remove the masks in schools even though gov's and local counties have lifted the masks mandates. Might explain why we are slipping on edu, teachers and their unions rule the world.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:03 pm
by jhu72
COVID stat watchers around the world have started to notice that things in Denmark aren't necessarily going in the right direction.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:28 pm
by youthathletics
Makes you wonder why all these blue states are lifting restrictions....stupid mouth breathers.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:35 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
This is consistent with my idea that we (we as in humans) relax a little too early. I would rather relax a month too late versus a month too early.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:48 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:42 pm
Bart wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:29 am
Makes me wonder what would the vaccine uptake be for COVID if the virus targeted children and not predominantly the old and those with comorbidities. My guess.......and it is only a guess.......vaccine uptake would be much higher.
That's my point. People & parents do their own risk assessment, factoring in their vulnerability.
Yes.
My point is: folks didn't use to think like this, because they didn't have access to information, disinformation, and uneducated guesses like we do now.
This is new behavior, brought on by the internet.
40 years ago, being the civic-minded man that he is, Old Salt would have been handing out coffee and donuts at their local vaccination drive, and our vaxx rate would have been in the high 90%+. And a grateful nation would have marveled at the medical miracle.
We're still losing 2,600+ Americans per day, folks. An unthinkable number just two years ago. But in 2022? Our response is: Meh.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ths-covid/
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:59 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Agreed...but at what point do we recognize that we have this unfortunate reality and that forcing people is simply too problematic to overcome?
Is there a point coming soon when the vaccines are available across the age range, boosters are being developed quickly to address new variants, and various therapeutics are working too, that we simply say, "ok, it's up to you"?
If so, do we change the calculus and let people bear the financial (as well as life) costs of contracting Covid and needing serious care?
Make it free and easy and available to take actions to prevent infection and serious negative outcomes, but don't participate in doing so and you're on your own financially?
Want to have health insurance? ok, but it costs way more if you make the choices not to follow medical advice such as refusing up to date vaccination status.
If not, why not?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:37 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:48 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:42 pm
Bart wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:29 am
Makes me wonder what would the vaccine uptake be for COVID if the virus targeted children and not predominantly the old and those with comorbidities. My guess.......and it is only a guess.......vaccine uptake would be much higher.
That's my point. People & parents do their own risk assessment, factoring in their vulnerability.
Yes.
My point is: folks didn't use to think like this, because they didn't have access to information, disinformation, and uneducated guesses like we do now.
This is new behavior, brought on by the internet.
40 years ago, being the civic-minded man that he is, Old Salt would have been handing out coffee and donuts at their local vaccination drive, and our vaxx rate would have been in the high 90%+. And a grateful nation would have marveled at the medical miracle.
We're still losing 2,600+ Americans per day, folks. An unthinkable number just two years ago. But in 2022? Our response is: Meh.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... ths-covid/
200,000 potential COVID-19 deaths was called “fear porn” here.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:38 pm
by Peter Brown
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:35 pm
This is consistent with my idea that we (we as in humans) relax a little too early. I would rather relax a month too late versus a month too early.
You guys might want to try reading the article. The headline is from one of America’s foremost fear peddlers, Topol.
But the entire danish health and medical establishment take issue with the characterization. They correctly point out that just because someone is in the hospital and happens to have Covid but isn’t there because of Covid, that does not mean that hospitals are overflowing with Covid cadavers.
Unreal. Stop the fear peddling. Enough. Talk about misinformation.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:40 pm
by jhu72
... the insurance companies would be glad to oblige.