Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[dislaxxic]

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

WAY smaller footprint. WAY more guns in one place.

Kinda Wweak sauce...was there a point there somewhere?

..

[youthathletics]

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

WAY smaller footprint. WAY more guns in one place.

Kinda Wweak sauce...was there a point there somewhere?

..

Weak sauce?...Nope, just shear logic and experience in this facilities.

Sure, you can cut it with a sawzall blade and it'll make a ton of noise and take you quite some time. Sure in Oxy/Acetylene or plasma torch will work but that requires a ton of gas, a rig and a ton of time with the thickness of the steel. And guess what happens while all tis is going on....yep, our border patrol cameras and security systems alert of these goings on. Exactly like it is does around the WH and USNO and damned near every Embassy on Mass avenue.

Of course, because walls work when they are additionally

[cradleandshoot]

Nope. I have REPEATEDLY pointed out that there is no bill from the Dems. REPEATEDLY.

Not true.

Fact Sheet: President Biden Sends Immigration Bill to Congress as Part of His Commitment to Modernize our Immigration System

A start point put into play when President J'Biden first came into office.

..

Stand corrected. 100% missed this, thank you, Diss.

Biden's off the hook, fellas. Want to blame someone? Blame the House.

Who's running the House?

I thought the new way of correcting this is by executive order. If you start doing things the way they were meant to be done it upsets the entire political applecart. There were some good ideas submitted as a foundation to start with. I don't see one of them that would have prevented the current breakdown of any semblance of order at the border.

"Current breakdown".....is leading Congress to act, and ACTUALLY solve the problem. I'm FOR that.

There's ZERO difference between a few months of a ton of people coming, and 40 years of LOTS of people coming over our borders.

This is how Americans think: they think the number 10,000 for one year is higher than 1,000 for 40 years.

I read recently that at Eagle Pass in Texas they had an average of 6000 people a day crossing the border. It has been the norm for way longer than a few months. FTR Eagle Pass has been screaming at the top of their lungs for many months that they are overwhelmed and can't handle the influx. Their gripe is the federal government has done little if anything to assist in handling the problem. They chose to address it with concertina wire and look where that got them? It creates a conundrum a Fan for Eagle Pass. Your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.

All Trump and the R's had to do was fulfill the ONE campaign promise he made, and this would be in our rearview mirror.

Look at when this thread was started by you: 2018. SIX years ago, when Trump was in office. Trump didn't do what he said he'd do, and R voters let him get away with it, giving him RECORD HIGH poll numbers.

Biden (thank you dis) put in HIS bill in 2021, after taking office. The House didn't pass a bill for Trump, so whining that "mommy, I don't like Dem bills" is utter BS. The Truth is, they don't want to fix the problem because they think it gets them votes every 2 and 4 years.

Well trump tried to fulfill his promise with his big beautiful wall that Mexico was going to pay for. You wanna know something Mexico also has that they have already paid for?? They call em Oxy/Acetylene torches that cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. No need to climb over the big beautiful wall. In probably less than a minute you can make your own door.

Yep. The Wall is pointless. It's a talking point, because even 2 year old knows what a wall is. But as I've said before: if it will get R's to stop using that as an excuse for inaction on the REAL problem?

Build the stupid thing, so we can move on. And raise taxes to pay for it, since they think it's SO critical. Do it, and move on to fixing the actual problems.

Then that requires a worldwide ban on oxy/acetylene torches. trump will make the world pay for it. They can build it but should be aware of how simple it is to defeat it. Now a 1000 mile long moat with crocodiles and piranha would be more of a challenge. Just don't tell trump because he is likely to think it is a beautiful idea.

Nah, $100 reciprocating saw with a metal-cutting blade.

"The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier's steel-and-concrete bollards in a matter of minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the barrier-defeating techniques."

https://boingboing.net/2019/11/02/smugg ... ugh-t.html

Depends on what gauge steel your cutting. It will get the job done. Better have plenty of spare blades. Torch would take 30 seconds. Don't forget to wear safety glasses.

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

I'm certain of one thing. There is no one in their right mind that wants to get caught trying to cut through those fences.

[youthathletics]

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

I'm certain of one thing. There is no one in their right mind that wants to get caught trying to cut through those fences.

Exactly my point, same should apply on the border, both are off limits unless granted access.

[dislaxxic]

Ever hear of the Maginot Line?

..

[cradleandshoot]

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

I'm certain of one thing. There is no one in their right mind that wants to get caught trying to cut through those fences.

Exactly my point, same should apply on the border, both are off limits unless granted access.

I could not agree more. The question is why the people in DC who could make that happen have not done so?

[cradleandshoot]

Ever hear of the Maginot Line?

..

The Germans never tried to plow through the Maginot line. The simply went around it via the Ardennes.

[dislaxxic]

Exactly my....oh NEVER MIND!

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

Why does a measly fence around the WH and the US Naval Observatory work? Trump did not build those.

I'm certain of one thing. There is no one in their right mind that wants to get caught trying to cut through those fences.

Exactly my point, same should apply on the border, both are off limits unless granted access.

Your government should draft policy and legislation.

[old salt]

All Biden's been saying is that Congress won't give him more money because they know he'll just use it to enhance catch & release, doing nothing to deter or slow the flow. That's not speculation. We've seen what Biden's done the last 3 years.

And we saw what Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton and Bush did: nothing.

You want short term fixe, and don't care about the long term. It will be a matter of MONTHS before folks forget about "the border crisis" and move on to the next flavor of the week. And we will STILL have millions and millions of people here, without the ability to work legally. You and I don't see the same problem.

HR 2 & the Dignity Act are not short term fixes. They address the puil factors -- closing the asylum loophole, stopping catch & release, & limiting universal parole based on country. The Dignity Act grants work visas for migrants already here.

[old salt]

Fact Sheet: President Biden Sends Immigration Bill to Congress as Part of His Commitment to Modernize our Immigration System

A start point put into play when President J'Biden first came into office.

That did nothing to reduce the pull factors -- it enhanced them. Hurry up & get here now & get on the path to citizenship.
Billions to corrupt regimes to address the root causes. The cartels loved it.

[youthathletics]

Exactly my....oh NEVER MIND!

..

Because every barrier is the same, in every territory of the globe, with the very same terrain, and the very same weather. And the those traveling North have plenty of time and the benefit to stop in the Motel 6 for free breakfast and donuts, stock up on water, recharge all those dewalt batteries to sawzall through steel reinforced with concrete and make certain the oxy/acetylene rigs have enough gas, and their torch tip does not carbonize when they pop the metal and clog the holes of the torch cutting head when they pressed the oxy lever before the metal was hot enough. All while our border security systems sit and play go-fish while the alarm sirens go off from all the noise & video feeds indicating an attempted break.

I am sure Kamala sleeps well knowing the fence is easily scaled off of Mass avenue next to the atomic clock. But wait, there's more. You could walk up to the security gate and ask to speak to Kamala, she does work for the people, no? I'm sure those nice guys with Glock 40's and those cruising the place on their mountain bikes and Belgian Malinois on the ready would be happy to let you meander right on in. Of maybe those guys in the guard shacks on the roof of the White House who put a little red dot on you while you are on the roof at the Hay-Adams and forgot to notify SS you'd be up there. Those gun scopes and binoculars can't see very far or clearly enough to detect people...much less a video camera. You know, the those video's that the FBI had zoomed in on the DNC but clearly missed presenting the footage of the person who dropped the pipe bomb even though they were panned to see the location before and after it was placed there.

At some point, you have to think past the immediate, while using real world experiences and not just blindly reading confirmation biased news, while trusting that others do provide something from which you could enter into the equation of problem solving.

Enjoy the weekend, Dis...I know you will.

[a fan]

All Biden's been saying is that Congress won't give him more money because they know he'll just use it to enhance catch & release, doing nothing to deter or slow the flow. That's not speculation. We've seen what Biden's done the last 3 years.

And we saw what Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton and Bush did: nothing.

You want short term fixes, and don't care about the long term. It will be a matter of MONTHS before folks forget about "the border crisis" and move on to the next flavor of the week. And we will STILL have millions and millions of people here, without the ability to work legally. You and I don't see the same problem.

HR 2 & the Dignity Act are not short term fixes.

Those are DOA per Trump and your R's. Doesn't matter what kind of fixes those are.

I'm speaking to your past insistence that Biden issue exec orders---"seal the border first", etc. Those are all short term. We're now talking past each other.

[old salt]

All Biden's been saying is that Congress won't give him more money because they know he'll just use it to enhance catch & release, doing nothing to deter or slow the flow. That's not speculation. We've seen what Biden's done the last 3 years.

And we saw what Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton and Bush did: nothing.

You want short term fixes, and don't care about the long term. It will be a matter of MONTHS before folks forget about "the border crisis" and move on to the next flavor of the week. And we will STILL have millions and millions of people here, without the ability to work legally. You and I don't see the same problem.

HR 2 & the Dignity Act are not short term fixes.

Those are DOA per Trump and your R's. Doesn't matter what kind of fixes those are.

I'm speaking to your past insistence that Biden issue exec orders---"seal the border first", etc. Those are all short term. We're now talking past each other.

Yes. Biden could help his position by taking those short term executive actions to slow the flow now, but he's not willing to do so. He's playing helpless & claiming that he just needs more money. Each day, there are fewer citizens stupid enough to believe him.

There has never been this much public pressure on this issue because these are unprecdented numbers. Sending migrants to the sanctuary states & tricking Biden into challenging TX were political genius by the (R)'s. It forces the public to see what's really going on.

There never has been this much leverage on this issue, with not just the unprecedented numbers but linking it to military aid for Ukraine, Israel & Taiwan.

[dislaxxic]

Exactly my....oh NEVER MIND!

..

Because every barrier is the same, in every territory of the globe, with the very same terrain, and the very same weather. And the those traveling North have plenty of time and the benefit to stop in the Motel 6 for free breakfast and donuts, stock up on water, recharge all those dewalt batteries to sawzall through steel reinforced with concrete and make certain the oxy/acetylene rigs have enough gas, and their torch tip does not carbonize when they pop the metal and clog the holes of the torch cutting head when they pressed the oxy lever before the metal was hot enough. All while our border security systems sit and play go-fish while the alarm sirens go off from all the noise & video feeds indicating an attempted break.

I am sure Kamala sleeps well knowing the fence is easily scaled off of Mass avenue next to the atomic clock. But wait, there's more. You could walk up to the security gate and ask to speak to Kamala, she does work for the people, no? I'm sure those nice guys with Glock 40's and those cruising the place on their mountain bikes and Belgian Malinois on the ready would be happy to let you meander right on in. Of maybe those guys in the guard shacks on the roof of the White House who put a little red dot on you while you are on the roof at the Hay-Adams and forgot to notify SS you'd be up there. Those gun scopes and binoculars can't see very far or clearly enough to detect people...much less a video camera. You know, the those video's that the FBI had zoomed in on the DNC but clearly missed presenting the footage of the person who dropped the pipe bomb even though they were panned to see the location before and after it was placed there.

At some point, you have to think past the immediate, while using real world experiences and not just blindly reading confirmation biased news, while trusting that others do provide something from which you could enter into the equation of problem solving.

Enjoy the weekend, Dis...I know you will.

I feel like the issues you enumerate above are SUPER paranoid and essentially over-the-top fear mongering. The border is a huge problem to be sure, but overall, i don't see the existential threat to the nation that the rightwing media megaphone labels it for what i believe to be purely political purposes.

By the way, did you see the most recent concession Biden is willing to make? He'll "shut down an overwhelmed border" if the deal is inked.

Yep, looking forward to a GREAT weekend. Same to you YA.

..

[a fan]

Yes. Biden could help his position by taking those short term executive actions to slow the flow now, but he's not willing to do so. He's playing helpless & claiming that he just needs more money. Each day, there are fewer citizens stupid enough to believe him.

And millions more who think that Trump will fix this...after having failed in four years of trying...and after making it his ONLY major campaign plank. Is this a contest between stupid partisan voters who believe what their leaders tell them? Because if it is.......

There has never been this much public pressure on this issue because these are unprecdented numbers. Sending migrants to the sanctuary states & tricking Biden into challenging TX were political genius by the (R)'s. It forces the public to see what's really going on.

That's what you and the crew said back in 2018...when this thread started, and you're trying WAY too hard to forget.

Wanna wager nothing happens? I'll take bets now. I've seen this movie for DECADES. US attention span is on an egg timer. The next big flavor of the month will arrive, and this issue goes bye-bye. Again. Notice where Ukraine is on the public radar? You've had your attention pulled away by Bud Lite ads, FFS...something that should have never hit your radar at all. You think your fellow Americans are any different?.....the media flavor of the month will arrive in 3,2,1.......

There never has been this much leverage on this issue

9/11. And again with "the immigrant caravan" you're typing on today. And for the entirety of the Trump campaign....what happened each time?

And Trump just told you and all of America that there's no urgency, and this can wait 12+ months.

I like your optimism, though. It suits you much better.

[a fan]

By the way, did you see the most recent concession Biden is willing to make? He'll "shut down an overwhelmed border" if the deal is inked.

Uh-oh. Gonna be tough for Trump to spin this one. I'm sure FoxNation is on the case, and will come up with their best work.

I'm going to fall off my barstool laughing if Biden...of all people..... is the one who gets an immigration bill through.

[cradleandshoot]

By the way, did you see the most recent concession Biden is willing to make? He'll "shut down an overwhelmed border" if the deal is inked.

Uh-oh. Gonna be tough for Trump to spin this one. I'm sure FoxNation is on the case, and will come up with their best work.

I'm going to fall off my barstool laughing if Biden...of all people..... is the one who gets an immigration bill through.

An accomplishment 40 years in the making motivated by the collasal mess at the southern border. This isn't something Joe WANTS to do. This is something Joe HAS to do if he wants to re-up for 4 more years. I mean Joe could have made this happen 3 years ago. He submitted his plan to Congress on day one and to my knowledge never followed up on it. What good is the bully pulpit when you don't use when you should? I'm glad that the Democrat party finally dragged Joe on board even if he was kicking and screaming all the way. The devil is always in the details. We don't know what the details will be.
This is a clever move by Joe. If/when the deal chits the bed Joe can shuffle up to podium and declare that he tried his darndest to fix the southern border. Those god damned Republicans stood in his way. As a tactic I give it 9.5 out of 10. Republicans will still be running around in circles chasing their tails before they realize that a senile old man just pulled one over on them. I betcha a steak dinner Joe will use his bully pulpit if that happens.

[Kismet]

Fact Sheet: President Biden Sends Immigration Bill to Congress as Part of His Commitment to Modernize our Immigration System

A start point put into play when President J'Biden first came into office.

That did nothing to reduce the pull factors -- it enhanced them. Hurry up & get here now & get on the path to citizenship.
Billions to corrupt regimes to address the root causes. The cartels loved it.

Here you go - source inside talks on the Senate plan

"Mandatory detention of all single adults.

- Mandatory “shut down” of border once average daily migrant encounters hits 5,000. Importantly, this 5,000 number includes 1,400 CBP One app entries at ports of entry per day, and roughly 3,600 illegal crossings per day.

- How is that enforced? Once the 5,000 threshold is hit, a new authority is codified into law that requires Border Patrol to immediately remove illegal immigrants they catch without processing. They would not get to request asylum, they would immediately be removed. This includes removals back to Mexico, and deportations to home countries. This would be a *massive* change from current policy, which is that once an illegal immigrant reaches US soil, they must be processed via Title 8 and allowed to claim asylum. Under this new authority – they are not processed, and they are mandatorily immediately removed once the “shut down” threshold is reached.

- This “shut down” also takes effect is there are 8,500 migrant encounters in a single day.

- The “shut down” would not lift the next day. It wouldn’t lift until daily encounters are reduced to under 75% of the 5,000 threshold for at least two weeks. This means the “shut down” authority would not lift until two weeks of an average of less than 3,750 migrant encounters per day.

- Some family units will be released with ATD (Alternatives to Detention, ankle monitors etc).

- New removal authority to immediately remove all migrants who do not have valid asylum claims, which will be determined within 6 months rather than the years long process we have right now.

- Any migrant caught trying to cross twice during “shut down” phase would be banned from entering US for one year.

- US will need agreement with Mexico for MX to take back non Mexican illegal immigrants. This hasn't been ironed out yet.

- President Biden approves of the deal and is ready to sign it as is, right now, and implement the new authority it would give him."

Republicans are NEVER going to get a better deal than this.

[cradleandshoot]

Fact Sheet: President Biden Sends Immigration Bill to Congress as Part of His Commitment to Modernize our Immigration System

A start point put into play when President J'Biden first came into office.

That did nothing to reduce the pull factors -- it enhanced them. Hurry up & get here now & get on the path to citizenship.
Billions to corrupt regimes to address the root causes. The cartels loved it.

Here you go - source inside talks on the Senate plan

"Mandatory detention of all single adults.

- Mandatory “shut down” of border once average daily migrant encounters hits 5,000. Importantly, this 5,000 number includes 1,400 CBP One app entries at ports of entry per day, and roughly 3,600 illegal crossings per day.

- How is that enforced? Once the 5,000 threshold is hit, a new authority is codified into law that requires Border Patrol to immediately remove illegal immigrants they catch without processing. They would not get to request asylum, they would immediately be removed. This includes removals back to Mexico, and deportations to home countries. This would be a *massive* change from current policy, which is that once an illegal immigrant reaches US soil, they must be processed via Title 8 and allowed to claim asylum. Under this new authority – they are not processed, and they are mandatorily immediately removed once the “shut down” threshold is reached.

- This “shut down” also takes effect is there are 8,500 migrant encounters in a single day.

- The “shut down” would not lift the next day. It wouldn’t lift until daily encounters are reduced to under 75% of the 5,000 threshold for at least two weeks. This means the “shut down” authority would not lift until two weeks of an average of less than 3,750 migrant encounters per day.

- Some family units will be released with ATD (Alternatives to Detention, ankle monitors etc).

- New removal authority to immediately remove all migrants who do not have valid asylum claims, which will be determined within 6 months rather than the years long process we have right now.

- Any migrant caught trying to cross twice during “shut down” phase would be banned from entering US for one year.

- US will need agreement with Mexico for MX to take back non Mexican illegal immigrants. This hasn't been ironed out yet.

- President Biden approves of the deal and is ready to sign it as is, right now, and implement the new authority it would give him."

Republicans are NEVER going to get a better deal than this.

As I suspected, the devil is in the details. When something appears to be too good to be true it usually is.