Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[a fan]

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You're defending what you were TOLD the FL elected officials are doing by a third party. You have no clue what the whole story is. They may very well be operating against your views. You don't have anywhere close to enough info. to tell.

Example? They could be removing a chart about racial profiling in policing, yet leaving in other cultural reference that the FL crew thinks is fine. And yet you just told us you want NONE of that in textbooks for Math.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let’s MAGA like OS wants:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/edu ... 835742002/


American students struggle in math.

The latest results of an international exam given to teenagers ranked the USA ninth in reading and 31st in math literacy out of 79 countries and economies. America has a smaller-than-average share of top-performing math students, and scores have essentially been flat for two decades.

One likely reason: U.S. high schools teach math differently than other countries.

Classes here often focus on formulas and procedures rather than teaching students to think creatively about solving complex problems involving all sorts of mathematics, experts said. That makes it harder for students to compete globally, be it on an international exam or in colleges and careers that value sophisticated thinking and data science.

Let’s do it like we did in the 1950s…..When America was great!

You don’t know american you Gen z fool!

Let's teach math problems on police dept demographics & real estate red lining. That creative thinking will close the gap.

Where do these international whiz kids come for college & advanced degrees ?
Whose designs are copied & pirated ?
Have you noticed how US aircraft design, civil & miltary, is copied internationally ?

Thanks….Sounds like the American educational system is doing well enough. You haven’t had first hand experience in over 50 years. When were you last in a public, private or catholic elementary or high school building?

A couple months ago. My wife was a career public school teacher, as are many of her friends who we interact with.

Sitting around gossiping like some old B ain't first hand experience.....

We keep in touch. Nobody's bitching. Their classes test scores are good.

Yes...you are.

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You live in Florida?

[old salt]

So there is more to teaching math than memorizing times tables Old Socrates

I never argued there wasn't. First you master the basics, then the advanced, applying them to real world technical (not social) problems.
Still trying to figure out how to calculate equity in designing a bridge.

My wife worked at the University of Michigan Poverty Center. Filled with PhDs----and PhD and MS students who were learning to apply math to social problems. Statistics out the wazoo...they live to build and read spreadsheets. And exactitude is EVERYTHING. Have a PhD friend, and I heard her us a phrase so much over the years when complaining about bad science that I made her a "Bad Data" Tshirt for Xmas. Math directly applied to reduce poverty with limited resources.

There are tens of thousands of High School student who are learning math and other STEM fields with the intent of applying it to social problems. And they are motived to learn higher math by this desire to fix social problems.

Heck, I'd argue that your chosen vocation is about applying math to fix social problems.

I first had to master the basics before I could apply them. For inspiration -- I didn't need to learn about Sputnik or Alan Shepard in math class to be inspired by them.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So why did you insert it into the argument ? How do the test scores for parochial schools compare to public schools ? That's the relevant comparison.

Reading the cite you gave me that you're now telling me that didn't read? Mixed bag.

This is how education is handled in the 21st century.....different disciplines are mixed. So you use stats in Social studies and vice versa. My daughter had a section on the environment that mixed english, french, math, spelling...and they ever wrote a little song. Even discussed how environment affected French and American cultures....all in a "STEM" class. This is how its done, particularly at high-achieving schools. Result? My daughter can do math in english or french, and has tested for fluency at the same level as a French girl her age in France.

Downside, from your perspective...they discussed the concept of carbon credits. I HATE carbon credits, and think that they're idiotic. Yet they were brought up as a good thing in her class. Guess what? Don't care. That's what parenting and/or future education is for. But millions of Americans are losing their minds over what is just not a big deal to me, because I know full well I was taught a whole MESS of things in K-12 that neither me nor my parents agreed with....folks just didn't complain, because we didn't live in clikcbait-outrage culture where there are no longer molehills, and everything is a mountain.

And teachers are now somehow to blame for many of America's ills. It's crazy, if you ask me. And I know you're not asking.

The high school dropout rate was close to 30% in the 1960s….I wonder if parents were complaining about teachers?

[Typical Lax Dad]

So there is more to teaching math than memorizing times tables Old Socrates

I never argued there wasn't. First you master the basics, then the advanced, applying them to real world technical (not social) problems.
Still trying to figure out how to calculate equity in designing a bridge.

My wife worked at the University of Michigan Poverty Center. Filled with PhDs----and PhD and MS students who were learning to apply math to social problems. Statistics out the wazoo...they live to build and read spreadsheets. And exactitude is EVERYTHING. Have a PhD friend, and I heard her us a phrase so much over the years when complaining about bad science that I made her a "Bad Data" Tshirt for Xmas. Math directly applied to reduce poverty with limited resources.

There are tens of thousands of High School student who are learning math and other STEM fields with the intent of applying it to social problems. And they are motived to learn higher math by this desire to fix social problems.

Heck, I'd argue that your chosen vocation is about applying math to fix social problems.

I first had to master the basics before I could apply them. For inspiration -- I didn't need to learn about Sputnik or Alan Shepard in math class to be inspired by them.

[old salt]

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You're defending what you were TOLD the FL elected officials are doing by a third party. You have no clue what the whole story is. They may very well be operating against your views. You don't have anywhere close to enough info. to tell.

Example? They could be removing a chart about racial profiling in policing, yet leaving in other cultural reference that the FL crew thinks is fine. And yet you just told us you want NONE of that in textbooks for Math.

I agree with removing the examples cited. Did they leave in the math problems about Confederate battle casualties ? ...in French ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

“During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.”

MAGA

[old salt]

“During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.”

MAGA

So what ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

“During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.”

MAGA

So what ?

So sometimes we need to teach young dogs new tricks. You have no standing. Why do you care?

[old salt]

“During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.”

MAGA

So what ?

So sometimes we need to teach young dogs new tricks. You have no standing. Why do you care?

In 1960 in MO, you were required by law to stay enrolled until age 16. In my class of '66, our grad rate > 90%.

You know not of what you speak. You were not around then.

[Typical Lax Dad]

“During the 1940s and 1950s, the more highly educated younger cohorts began to make their mark on the average for the entire adult population. More than half of the young adults of the 1940s and 1950s completed high school and the median educational attainment of 25- to 29-years-olds rose to 12 years. By 1960, 42 percent of males, 25 years old and over, still had completed no more than the eighth grade, but 40 percent had completed high school and 10 percent had completed 4 years of college. The corresponding proportion for women completing high school was about the same, but the proportion completing college was somewhat lower.”

MAGA

So what ?

So sometimes we need to teach young dogs new tricks. You have no standing. Why do you care?

In 1960 in MO, you were required to stay enrolled until age 16. In my class of '66, our grad rate > 90%.

You know not of what you speak. You were not around then.

Did I mention the United States of Missouri? Go try to pee and then go to bed…..About to listen to some David Liebman Plays Coltrane. Night, night.

[a fan]

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You're defending what you were TOLD the FL elected officials are doing by a third party. You have no clue what the whole story is. They may very well be operating against your views. You don't have anywhere close to enough info. to tell.

Example? They could be removing a chart about racial profiling in policing, yet leaving in other cultural reference that the FL crew thinks is fine. And yet you just told us you want NONE of that in textbooks for Math.

I agree with removing the examples cited. Did they leave in the math problems about Confederate battle casualties ? ...in French ?

You agree with removing the examples cited?

Now you're acknowledging you're not getting the full story, and that DeSantis may very well be leaving other cultural stuff in Math books in Fla.

We're having a discussion! I love it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Let’s MAGA like OS wants:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/edu ... 835742002/


American students struggle in math.

The latest results of an international exam given to teenagers ranked the USA ninth in reading and 31st in math literacy out of 79 countries and economies. America has a smaller-than-average share of top-performing math students, and scores have essentially been flat for two decades.

One likely reason: U.S. high schools teach math differently than other countries.

Classes here often focus on formulas and procedures rather than teaching students to think creatively about solving complex problems involving all sorts of mathematics, experts said. That makes it harder for students to compete globally, be it on an international exam or in colleges and careers that value sophisticated thinking and data science.

Let’s do it like we did in the 1950s…..When America was great!

You don’t know american you Gen z fool!

This is what the just teach Reading, ‘Righting and ‘Rithmetic crowd wants. MAGA….back when there was no competition around most of the planet as well as here at home.

Yes afraid of competition is a key attribute to this crowd.

[Farfromgeneva]

So why did you insert it into the argument ? How do the test scores for parochial schools compare to public schools ? That's the relevant comparison.

Reading the cite you gave me that you're now telling me that didn't read? Mixed bag.

This is how education is handled in the 21st century.....different disciplines are mixed. So you use stats in Social studies and vice versa. My daughter had a section on the environment that mixed english, french, math, spelling...and they ever wrote a little song. Even discussed how environment affected French and American cultures....all in a "STEM" class. This is how its done, particularly at high-achieving schools. Result? My daughter can do math in english or french, and has tested for fluency at the same level as a French girl her age in France.

Downside, from your perspective...they discussed the concept of carbon credits. I HATE carbon credits, and think that they're idiotic. Yet they were brought up as a good thing in her class. Guess what? Don't care. That's what parenting and/or future education is for. But millions of Americans are losing their minds over what is just not a big deal to me, because I know full well I was taught a whole MESS of things in K-12 that neither me nor my parents agreed with....folks just didn't complain, because we didn't live in clikcbait-outrage culture where there are no longer molehills, and everything is a mountain.

And teachers are now somehow to blame for many of America's ills. It's crazy, if you ask me. And I know you're not asking.

The education quality my kids receive today is irrefutably better than what I got in upstate NY in the 1980s. Not even close, it would be a joke to suggest otherwise from first hand experience. And as mentioned, 16 of the top 20 went IVY in my graduating class back then, 1 to Williams 1 to Haverford, one of my best friends to U of R and myself the What the heck is he doing kid who went to Hobart (very cheaply, less than it would’ve cost to stay home and go to SUNY Binghamton). My three closest friends went to Harvard, UofR & LeMoyne-a very strange set of outcomes to an outsider. And I know my kids are getting a far better education in their elementary school than I received. Not even close. Probably because of the segregation, though my son was in the class where they paired up the few black kids who attended in person in the fall of 20 so I guess he got screwed and yet his instruction is still superior.

It’s like comparing NBA athleticism of guys from Dave Cowens era to ones today.

[old salt]

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You're defending what you were TOLD the FL elected officials are doing by a third party. You have no clue what the whole story is. They may very well be operating against your views. You don't have anywhere close to enough info. to tell.

Example? They could be removing a chart about racial profiling in policing, yet leaving in other cultural reference that the FL crew thinks is fine. And yet you just told us you want NONE of that in textbooks for Math.

I agree with removing the examples cited. Did they leave in the math problems about Confederate battle casualties ? ...in French ?

You agree with removing the examples cited?

Now you're acknowledging you're not getting the full story, and that DeSantis may very well be leaving other cultural stuff in Math books in Fla.

We're having a discussion! I love it.

Great. I look forward to you providing examples of the cultural stuff that DeSantis is leaving in the Math books.
I hope it's in Spanish, rather than French. uno, dos, tres...I hope it's at least menu oriented.

[jhu72]

... bunch of news today about more culture war mongering coming out of Florida. Sarasota seems (a bunch of DeSantis ass kissers run the place) to be the epicenter. They forced the cancellation of the display of some poster artwork advertising a diversity celebration this summer. Its an annual deal being held in Sarasota. Been going on for a couple decades. The assholes claimed the posters were offensive. I couldn't understand who they offended, totally inoffensive, unless it was fascists.

We need to run an ad campaign for the state tourism bureau: Florida is for fascists. Run the ads on national TV for the next couple years.

[jhu72]

I'm defending what the elected officials in FL are doing. You're bitching about that.

You're defending what you were TOLD the FL elected officials are doing by a third party. You have no clue what the whole story is. They may very well be operating against your views. You don't have anywhere close to enough info. to tell.

Example? They could be removing a chart about racial profiling in policing, yet leaving in other cultural reference that the FL crew thinks is fine. And yet you just told us you want NONE of that in textbooks for Math.

I agree with removing the examples cited. Did they leave in the math problems about Confederate battle casualties ? ...in French ?

You agree with removing the examples cited?

Now you're acknowledging you're not getting the full story, and that DeSantis may very well be leaving other cultural stuff in Math books in Fla.

We're having a discussion! I love it.

.... guaranteed! The fascists are leaving their own propaganda -- "cultural bias" -- in the books they claim they are just trying to clean up. The 'southerners" have been doing it since the end of the civil war. Southerns complaining about this kind of stuff is the biggest "belly laugh" ever.

[a fan]

Great. I look forward to you providing examples of the cultural stuff that DeSantis is leaving in the Math books.
I hope it's in Spanish, rather than French. uno, dos, tres...I hope it's at least menu oriented.

Don't have to. There's a State requirement that all books and curriculum include multicultural representation.

But if you REAllY want me to? I'll get you cites of FL-DeSantis approved math books that have cultural stuff in them.

But then you have to tell me that you do NOT agree with Desantis' law surrounding textbooks, thus ending the conversation, and allowing us to move on with common understanding.

Deal?

[old salt]

Great. I look forward to you providing examples of the cultural stuff that DeSantis is leaving in the Math books.
I hope it's in Spanish, rather than French. uno, dos, tres...I hope it's at least menu oriented.

Don't have to. There's a State requirement that all books and curriculum include multicultural representation.

But if you REAllY want me to? I'll get you cites of FL-DeSantis approved math books that have cultural stuff in them.

But then you have to tell me that you do NOT agree with Desantis' law surrounding textbooks, thus ending the conversation, and allowing us to move on with common understanding.

Deal?

Sure. Let's see 'em. We can then judge how agenda driven each one is, or how benignly multi-cultural it is. Intended to unite or divide.
Then opine on whether it should instead be taught in a social studies class where it can be discussed in depth, without distracting from a math lesson.

[jhu72]

Bad news for Ronny, poll numbers are falling in the past month, both against Trump and against the field.