Matnum PI wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:56 am
Admittedly, I don't follow this stuff and... I'd never heard Berenson before. Yikes. Even if everything he's saying is 100% true, which I do not believe to be the case, that's some pretty serious fear mongering. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 01257.html
.... its a Tuckyo Rose aligned guest. Even if a blind swine picks up a pearl on occasion, pretty sure this isn't one.
Blind swine picks up a Pearl? Are you describing my college experience again?
What would happen to this guy if he refused the vaccine based on religious grounds? Would/could the hospital still yank him out of line?
Not a real world question, though hypothetically interesting.
Hard to see that there could ever be a person (i) who would have no religious objection to a heart transplant (is there a more complicated and invasive medical procedure than that?), but (ii) who then could also establish a legitimate religious objection to the Covid vax?
Basically impossible.
Disagree, but you're the lawyer of course. If his position is presented as his personal health decision... in one instance he has made his personal decision after considering his options, on the other, rejects the recommendation based on the recommendation being forced/mandatory. I'm sure some lawyer out there (perhaps many) could make this work within a religious context.
Probably a good thing you and I aren't lawyers, but seems to me that the only religious exemptions are for established doctrines with well established sects. Not for one individual's personal preference to not to be told they need to follow rules in society. Simply not a religious doctrine.
Note that it is society which provides the exemption not simply someone's wish for an exception to be made for them.
ggait's point is that the established religious doctrines which say no medical procedures are allowed, and all is in the hands of God, are allowed as coherent and consistent. But there is no doctrine that says one can pick and choose when to put one's life and behavior in the hands of God, at least not such to expect that one's individual choice will be granted an exemption!
Nor is society going to ever say that an individual can simply choose when to follow the rules established by society and when not...at least not without consequences.
In these cases, people are required to either be vaccinated or wear a mask or whatever, else find other employment, go elsewhere to shop, go to the back of the line for a transplant, whatever those consequences are. Participate in society, enjoy the benefits of society, or do not. There's actually still a choice.
It’s all risk transference and hypocrisy. No interest in participating in society .
What would happen to this guy if he refused the vaccine based on religious grounds? Would/could the hospital still yank him out of line?
Not a real world question, though hypothetically interesting.
Hard to see that there could ever be a person (i) who would have no religious objection to a heart transplant (is there a more complicated and invasive medical procedure than that?), but (ii) who then could also establish a legitimate religious objection to the Covid vax?
Basically impossible.
Disagree, but you're the lawyer of course. If his position is presented as his personal health decision... in one instance he has made his personal decision after considering his options, on the other, rejects the recommendation based on the recommendation being forced/mandatory. I'm sure some lawyer out there (perhaps many) could make this work within a religious context and perhaps win.
... the only lawyers that will take this case are named Sidney or Rudy and they will want their fee upfront.
Not sure I could have her as a therapist....I'd only have one thing on my mind.
I was thinking of a scene from a stupid comedy called Bad Trip where Eric Andre really should not have gone back into the gorilla cage at the zoo when I saw her…
more like this...
This changed my mind about the vaccine
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:48 am
by OuttaNowhereWregget
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:03 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
We are about to eclipse 900,000 deaths per my World Meter reference point.
... it is really simple. This guy is decreasing (BY CHOICE) the chance of the organ transplant being long term successful. Increasing the likelihood that a very valuable resource that could be used to save someone else's life is wasted. There is a long line of people waiting for organs.
This guy has his chance of being selected for organ transplant increased because of his age. All else being equal, other older patients have to wait behind him for that reason. Is this fair?? Religion is not a factor considered by Transplant Boards. Yes, boards. A single individual does not make these decisions.
UPDATE: The fellow in question decided to go the mechanical heart route, which does not have a vaccination requirement. An interesting note, he has been aware of his condition for 4 years and is only now addressing the problem because he suffered heart failure in recent days. His parents claim he is not antivax, he is concerned about the COVID vaccine's reputation for causing heart inflammation. The doctors think not taking the vaccination is higher risk.
I am guessing this is a backup plan which solves the immediate problem, gives him another 5 years and hopes that we are past the COVID issue during that time. With a stronger heart he might be willing to get the vaccination. I infer this from his parent's most recent comments.
UPDATE #2: Just saw an Inside Edition report that is incompatible with the "Updated story" above. Parents appear to say different things regarding why the son won't take the vaccine. It could also be that the son who is in a hospital bed is changing his mind. In this Inside Edition story the mother says her son doesn't believe it is possible to develop a vaccine so quickly so he doesn't trust it. Typical response from someone listening to "Internet experts".
He needs to "internet research" with that InternetMD he earned just a bit further. If he does, he'll find that that rubbing invermectin on his chest will get rid of the heart problem. Then he won't need a transplant. And everyone's happy.
... it is really simple. This guy is decreasing (BY CHOICE) the chance of the organ transplant being long term successful. Increasing the likelihood that a very valuable resource that could be used to save someone else's life is wasted. There is a long line of people waiting for organs.
This guy has his chance of being selected for organ transplant increased because of his age. All else being equal, other older patients have to wait behind him for that reason. Is this fair?? Religion is not a factor considered by Transplant Boards. Yes, boards. A single individual does not make these decisions.
UPDATE: The fellow in question decided to go the mechanical heart route, which does not have a vaccination requirement. An interesting note, he has been aware of his condition for 4 years and is only now addressing the problem because he suffered heart failure in recent days. His parents claim he is not antivax, he is concerned about the COVID vaccine's reputation for causing heart inflammation. The doctors think not taking the vaccination is higher risk.
I am guessing this is a backup plan which solves the immediate problem, gives him another 5 years and hopes that we are past the COVID issue during that time. With a stronger heart he might be willing to get the vaccination. I infer this from his parent's most recent comments.
UPDATE #2: Just saw an Inside Edition report that is incompatible with the "Updated story" above. Parents appear to say different things regarding why the son won't take the vaccine. It could also be that the son who is in a hospital bed is changing his mind. In this Inside Edition story the mother says her son doesn't believe it is possible to develop a vaccine so quickly so he doesn't trust it. Typical response from someone listening to "Internet experts".
He needs to "internet research" with that InternetMD he earned just a bit further. If he does, he'll find that that rubbing invermectin on his chest will get rid of the heart problem. Then he won't need a transplant. And everyone's happy.
As sensible a discussion of the underlying biology! And simple enough to be for anyone.
Given his conservative political persuasion, I hope his message gets taken seriously within the vax skeptical crowd, as he presents exactly why vaccination still is important.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:26 pm
by Peter Brown
It’s fascinating that 7 people here replied in the poll that sits atop this thread that they definitively have “4 or more” family members or friends who have died from Covid.
4 or more. I’ve yet to read any posts here where someone cops to that.
Let’s just say I’m skeptical.
I don’t know one single person who has died of Covid, however everyone I know has either tested positive or thought they caught it.
What we definitely know is Biden’s team is playing politics with lives since shutting off access to monoclonal antibodies. Evil and criminal.
I don’t know of any presidency more willing to be blown out in the next election than this one. From lockdowns to mandates, to speech suppression, to vaxx passports, to monoclonal denial, to mixed messaging, to lack of tests, can anyone with a straight face say that Biden has done anything right? Incidentally, I think Trump was equally bad, it’s just that Biden was elected partly on the basis that he wouldn’t be this bad. He’s worse.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:28 pm
by a fan
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:26 pm
It’s fascinating that 7 people here replied in the poll that sits atop this thread that they definitively have “4 or more” family members or friends who have died from Covid.
4 or more. I’ve yet to read any posts here where someone cops to that.
Let’s just say I’m skeptical.
I don’t know one single person who has died of Covid, however everyone I know has either tested positive or thought they caught it.
What we definitely know is Biden’s team is playing politics with lives since shutting off access to monoclonal antibodies. Evil and criminal.
Who cares? You just told us no one is dying from Covid. We're all set.
Can't even follow your own advice?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:30 pm
by a fan
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:26 pm
I don’t know of any presidency more willing to be blown out in the next election than this one. From lockdowns to mandates, to speech suppression, to vaxx passports, to monoclonal denial, to mixed messaging, to lack of tests, can anyone with a straight face say that Biden has done anything right? Incidentally, I think Trump was equally bad, it’s just that Biden was elected partly on the basis that he wouldn’t be this bad. He’s worse.
You kidding? Four years of the Republicans in power fixed everything. There are no problems in America anymore, Pete.
Sit back, and enjoy the perfect America you wanted, brought to you by your Republican party.
