LaxPower Back-Up Stick

It seems worth changing the Draft Order to something more merit-based so we can, at least, know who are the winning-est programs...

nclaxin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:49 pm Seeing as NC Lax University has been in 3 of the last 6 championship games, but only won one, I feel like this makes me the "Maryland" of the league...haha

Maryland has won one in the last 46 years with 10 runner ups!!!

I've got my 3 rings (should have been 4 with 2011....that championship game scoring is still under protest)

Why would NC, Greenie, and I want to draft at the top? Year after year you guys give us stud players at the bottom of the draft.

2022
Pick #13 – Shane Knobloch (RUTGERS)
Pick #28 Alex English (PRINCETON)
2021
Pick #17 TJ Haley (GTOWN)
Pick #24 Aidan Danenza (DUKE)
2020
Pick #18 Alex Slusher (PRINCETON)
2019
Pick #16 Jack Myers (OSU)
Pick #25 Jeff Conner (UVA)
2017
Pick # 18 – Tre LeClaire (OSU)
Pick # 19 – Michael Kraus (UVA)

Very few big impact freshman these days. Many of you are patient enough to wait on a guy producing by their junior year. Excited for a great season ahead.....LETS GO!!

Dante Trader......ha ha!! Nice one!!

callaxdad wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:41 pm

nclaxin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:26 pm

callaxdad wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:18 pm

nclaxin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:07 pm Trades defeat the purpose of this league...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge proponent of trades (other than I'd trade for Dewey in a heartbeat!) but why do you say trades defeat the purpose of the league.

The league was created to as closely mimic running a college program as possible, not fantasy football.

Ie. Someone else drafted a guy you wanted...you were out recruited. Have a bad team? You own it until the next recruiting cycle.

Trades get brought up all the time. Matnum probably has a better, more in detail, answer.

OK NC, I get what your saying and don't necessarily disagree but I'd also say that there is the transfer portal today where there wasn't one several years ago.

Also, if someone takes your guy because he had a higher draft pick I wouldn't necessarily say you were out recruited, you just had a lower fantasy pick, a la fantasy football.

I will say that I'm in favor of a possible trade system but certainly not strongly, I think the league is pretty good the way it is.......unless I could trade for Tar Heel Dewey Egan!!!! Go NC baby!!

Wait you're a California lax person and a UNC fan? Please DM me lol kindred spirits. And I'm pro-trades and think it's worth a vote but totally valid if people don't like the idea. Transfer portal has changed the real life landscape but obviously transfers =/= trades.

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:40 pm

callaxdad wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:52 pm... However, neither is the recruiting analogy.

Though it used to be pretty darn close. Every team used to have a Social, an Academic, and a Winning Tradition Rating and the ratings were adjusted every season. The Social and Academic Ratings were done randomly (which was imperfect) but the Winning Tradition was under each coaches control and, for obvious reasons, the Winning Tradition had a heavier weight than the others. And... the teams with the best offering to a potential recruit picked first. We did this for years until (i think in 2014) we shifted to what we do today. And, frankly, I don't think it mattered. We're in the middle of the second round and people are still grabbing top players.

Wait this idea kicks ass. As a guy who inherited some top picks, I would still love this system.

I'll take Sean Cameron FR Middie Princeton.

fcalax wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:37 am I've got my 3 rings (should have been 4 with 2011....that championship game scoring is still under protest)

Why would NC, Greenie, and I want to draft at the top? Year after year you guys give us stud players at the bottom of the draft.

2022
Pick #13 – Shane Knobloch (RUTGERS)
Pick #28 Alex English (PRINCETON)
2021
Pick #17 TJ Haley (GTOWN)
Pick #24 Aidan Danenza (DUKE)
2020
Pick #18 Alex Slusher (PRINCETON)
2019
Pick #16 Jack Myers (OSU)
Pick #25 Jeff Conner (UVA)
2017
Pick # 18 – Tre LeClaire (OSU)
Pick # 19 – Michael Kraus (UVA)

Very few big impact freshman these days. Many of you are patient enough to wait on a guy producing by their junior year. Excited for a great season ahead.....LETS GO!!

Dante Trader......ha ha!! Nice one!!

I think the jury is still out on Knobloch, Danenza, Slusher, Conner. Leclaie and Kraus are gone, so I don't know if you'll be making a deep playoff run this season...

I would be up for voting on revamping the draft order calculation to include a few factors.

gcclaxster67 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:32 am I'll take Sean Cameron FR Middie Princeton.

From New Hampshire...

I think thought has to be given to what is best for the league as a whole. The unintended consequences can be significant.

Several potential consequences concern me.

Will a change create a two tiered league where a group of owners will perpetual contenders and others not.

How will the out group, if there is one, react? Will owner turnover increase, decrease or stay the same?

At the moment a new owner of a poor performing team can look forward to gaining a top pick to improve their team,

Owners coming into the league have no control over what eent before them but are shackled by it. Real world in a way but a new coach is not constrained in who they can recruit. The league has artificial constraints.

The league has an inception date. I wonder whether each team’s data is tracked back to its inception through the vsrious owners eg owner 1 > 2 > 3 etc.

What is the hook for a new owner to take over s bottom finishing team when they are told “by the way you will draft 20 and 19 talented players including the top 10 will not be available to you “.

There are always one off players who exceed expectations. Evaluating talent for a draft is a very uncertain exercise but it isn’t clear that a later round pick who later excelled should have been drafted higher based on available evidence. Hindsight.

Not all owners have the time or interest in preparing a data base for a draft. Then again they may not want to invest it. I don’t know.

Personally i draft idiosyncratically and hope for the best. I drafted one winner and one finalist in a two year period. I turned the team over to another post draft and was co-coach the second year.

There was a tine when draft order was picked at random rather than bottom up or top down.

My .02

Hmmm 118 points, the 10th highest in the league. Still in our shadow.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:10 am My .02

Personally, I'd prefer picks 20 and 21 over picks 1 and 40. Especially if I was building a franchise. But that may just be me. Also, Lax1 who had the first pick in the Draft this season likes the "better mirroring D1 Lax" idea so that's one vote from a basement dwelling, new franchise coach. And... i think you're right Canada. This was the same discussion years ago. This is a cool idea, an idea that better mirrors D1 Lacrosse but... Is it fair to the basement dwellers? And, years later, after numerous years of data, I think the answer is, Yes because the Draft Order is not the critical path to getting out of the basement. We've done the Draft Order randomly and top to bottom and bottom to top and... The correlation between Draft Order and winning is spurious at best.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:10 am The league has an inception date. I wonder whether each team’s data is tracked back to its inception through the vsrious owners eg owner 1 > 2 > 3 etc.

Canada, I don't understand above.

PATalk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:14 am Hmmm 118 points, the 10th highest in the league. Still in our shadow.

It's true, FCA had 118 Points last season, finished #8, and was #10 in terms of Points and... It was a strange season. No Ivies? But, even with no Ivies, FCA was only missing a Sophomore Alex Slusher. He really wasn't hit very hard by the virus. Greenie had 3 Ivy players and won it all. Bottomline, and I understand that I'm stating the obvious, is that FCA's best years are in his rearview mirror and, in 2022, FCA is barely relevant to our league.

Matt.

I was trying to say there is an inception date for each team. Most teams have had, i think, more than one owner. Or at least many have.

At a uni each coach builds on what came before do its tge dum total of what came before. The data should be inclusive of what came before eg record, coaches records etc. as coach 1 gave way to coach 2 who gave way to coach 3 for example. No team starts de novo except on day one. I hope that helps

Nick Dupuis Jr. A UMBC

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:42 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:10 am My .02

Personally, I'd prefer picks 20 and 21 over picks 1 and 40. Especially if I was building a franchise. But that may just be me. Also, Lax1 who had the first pick in the Draft this season likes the "better mirroring D1 Lax" idea so that's one vote from a basement dwelling, new franchise coach. And... i think you're right Canada. This was the same discussion years ago. This is a cool idea, an idea that better mirrors D1 Lacrosse but... Is it fair to the basement dwellers? And, years later, after numerous years of data, I think the answer is, Yes because the Draft Order is not the critical path to getting out of the basement. We've done the Draft Order randomly and top to bottom and bottom to top and... The correlation between Draft Order and winning is spurious at best.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:10 am The league has an inception date. I wonder whether each team’s data is tracked back to its inception through the vsrious owners eg owner 1 > 2 > 3 etc.

Canada, I don't understand above.

I agree. I would rather be in the middle….Trust me!

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am Matt.

I was trying to say there is an inception date for each team. Most teams have had, i think, more than one owner. Or at least many have.

At a uni each coach builds on what came before do its tge dum total of what came before. The data should be inclusive of what came before eg record, coaches records etc. as coach 1 gave way to coach 2 who gave way to coach 3 for example. No team starts de novo except on day one. I hope that helps

My team was de novo. We changed the draft order when I would have taken O’Neill with the #1.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am I was trying to say there is an inception date for each team. Most teams have had, i think, more than one owner. Or at least many have.

Correct.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 amAt a uni each coach builds on what came before do its tge dum total of what came before. The data should be inclusive of what came before eg record, coaches records etc. as coach 1 gave way to coach 2 who gave way to coach 3 for example. No team starts de novo except on day one. I hope that helps

Agreed and yes. This theoretical Draft Order will be determined by the team, not by the coach. (Though the team does have the coach's name.)

One more thought, something I, and i'm sure I'm not alone, have learned over the years is that... We have a strange league with strange coaches. if a coach doesn't have a strange relationship with HS/College lacrosse, this league won't be a great fit for them.
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Chopsticks picking. Keoni on deck.

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:38 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am I was trying to say there is an inception date for each team. Most teams have had, i think, more than one owner. Or at least many have.

Correct.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 amAt a uni each coach builds on what came before do its tge dum total of what came before. The data should be inclusive of what came before eg record, coaches records etc. as coach 1 gave way to coach 2 who gave way to coach 3 for example. No team starts de novo except on day one. I hope that helps

Agreed and yes. This theoretical Draft Order will be determined by the team, not by the coach. (Though the team does have the coach's name.)

One more thought, something I, and i'm sure I'm not alone, have learned over the years is that... We have a strange league with strange coaches. if a coach doesn't have a strange relationship with HS/College lacrosse, this league won't be a great fit for them.

"Strange" connections and relationships are key...

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:50 am

PATalk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:14 am Hmmm 118 points, the 10th highest in the league. Still in our shadow.

It's true, FCA had 118 Points last season, finished #8, and was #10 in terms of Points and... It was a strange season. No Ivies? But, even with no Ivies, FCA was only missing a Sophomore Alex Slusher. He really wasn't hit very hard by the virus. Greenie had 3 Ivy players and won it all. Bottomline, and I understand that I'm stating the obvious, is that FCA's best years are in his rearview mirror and, in 2022, FCA is barely relevant to our league.

Coming from the guy with 62 points? You got outscored by two teams who were both 1-7. Guess you were blessed with a cupcake schedule. You've been in the FCA rearview mirror for a long time....check the stats.