All things CoronaVirus

[smoova]

There's an interesting confluence about to occur between the Omicron case spike and the OSHA ETS that takes effect on Feb 9 (requiring all companies with >100 employees to implement a vax-or-test policy). In industries like gasoline refining/transport/storage, where roughly 50% of the workers are unvaxxed, many employees have continued to work even when mildly ill. However, when those employees are forced to test weekly and quarantine for 10 days after a positive test, facilities will shut down and filling stations may run out of product. It's already beginning to happen without the testing mandate. It will be fascinating to see whether the economic pinch is sufficient to cause further modification to testing/quarantine rules.

Your assumption is that COVID is/will be rampant in the ranks and employees will test positive in a big wave?
As opposed to Covid already swept through their ranks?

Indeed, could well be disruptive.

BTW, I think the quarantining rule has been changed already, but could be mistaken.

I'm not assuming - I'm watching it begin. We're already seeing staffing shortages due to a slew of mild reinfections and mild breakthrough cases ... and that's just the folks who get tested when they get sick. Prior to 2020, most of those people would have ignored their symptoms and reported to work. The test-or-vax mandate combined with Omicron will eliminate an entirely different group of employees from the workplace (those who are unvaxxed and didn't test when sick). Unfortunate timing. Will be interesting to see if SCOTUS actually bails out the current administration by staying/invalidating the OSHA ETS.

[jhu72]

Paul Marik, founder of Front Line Critical Care Alliance (Front Line Physicians - ivermectin prescription mill) has lost his lawsuit against Sentara. Sentara is a major healthcare provider in eastern Virginia. Marik sued them to prescribe ivermectin in their facilities. Sentara suspended him, Marik has now resigned. Its been a bad year for Marik (2021). He was sanctioned by the Virginia Board of Medicine, the states licensing agency, for prescribing medication for individuals where no doctor patient relationship existed. This was not for ivermectin, but pain pills. They identified 5 individuals he had prescribed oxycontin and oxycodone and other pain medication for, where no relationship existed, no visits, no meetings, no patient records, no files, etc. Just prescriptions and financial transactions. Pretty much the Front Line Physicians' business model.

[MDlaxfan76]

There's an interesting confluence about to occur between the Omicron case spike and the OSHA ETS that takes effect on Feb 9 (requiring all companies with >100 employees to implement a vax-or-test policy). In industries like gasoline refining/transport/storage, where roughly 50% of the workers are unvaxxed, many employees have continued to work even when mildly ill. However, when those employees are forced to test weekly and quarantine for 10 days after a positive test, facilities will shut down and filling stations may run out of product. It's already beginning to happen without the testing mandate. It will be fascinating to see whether the economic pinch is sufficient to cause further modification to testing/quarantine rules.

Your assumption is that COVID is/will be rampant in the ranks and employees will test positive in a big wave?
As opposed to Covid already swept through their ranks?

Indeed, could well be disruptive.

BTW, I think the quarantining rule has been changed already, but could be mistaken.

I'm not assuming - I'm watching it begin. We're already seeing staffing shortages due to a slew of mild reinfections and mild breakthrough cases ... and that's just the folks who get tested when they get sick. Prior to 2020, most of those people would have ignored their symptoms and reported to work. The test-or-vax mandate combined with Omicron will eliminate an entirely different group of employees from the workplace (those who are unvaxxed and didn't test when sick). Unfortunate timing. Will be interesting to see if SCOTUS actually bails out the current administration by staying/invalidating the OSHA ETS.

Interesting; thanks for the insight.

I can tell you that my breakthrough case right now is not "mild" (though I don't think going to develop worse) and I'd have avoided being in an office, pre-pandemic...same as a flu. If I was working outside and didn't have sick days and needed the dough, I'd be able to work, but sluggish at best.

If I wasn't vaccinated, as you're saying 50% aren't, I might well be having more serious symptoms. But I'm 64.

I'd be concerned about serious cases with the cohort you're describing.

[youthathletics]

There's an interesting confluence about to occur between the Omicron case spike and the OSHA ETS that takes effect on Feb 9 (requiring all companies with >100 employees to implement a vax-or-test policy). In industries like gasoline refining/transport/storage, where roughly 50% of the workers are unvaxxed, many employees have continued to work even when mildly ill. However, when those employees are forced to test weekly and quarantine for 10 days after a positive test, facilities will shut down and filling stations may run out of product. It's already beginning to happen without the testing mandate. It will be fascinating to see whether the economic pinch is sufficient to cause further modification to testing/quarantine rules.

Your assumption is that COVID is/will be rampant in the ranks and employees will test positive in a big wave?
As opposed to Covid already swept through their ranks?

Indeed, could well be disruptive.

BTW, I think the quarantining rule has been changed already, but could be mistaken.

I'm not assuming - I'm watching it begin. We're already seeing staffing shortages due to a slew of mild reinfections and mild breakthrough cases ... and that's just the folks who get tested when they get sick. Prior to 2020, most of those people would have ignored their symptoms and reported to work. The test-or-vax mandate combined with Omicron will eliminate an entirely different group of employees from the workplace (those who are unvaxxed and didn't test when sick). Unfortunate timing. Will be interesting to see if SCOTUS actually bails out the current administration by staying/invalidating the OSHA ETS.

Interesting; thanks for the insight.

I can tell you that my breakthrough case right now is not "mild" (though I don't think going to develop worse) and I'd have avoided being in an office, pre-pandemic...same as a flu. If I was working outside and didn't have sick days and needed the dough, I'd be able to work, but sluggish at best.

If I wasn't vaccinated, as you're saying 50% aren't, I might well be having more serious symptoms. But I'm 64.

I'd be concerned about serious cases with the cohort you're describing.

smoova's example is certainly happening in our arena, it is chaotic and an absolute HR nightmare primarily for the contact tracing aspect, not to mention all the other mess with vax status/booster and timelines to even get a vax after having covid.

The reason our family got it was from a school employee, not vax'd, and did not want to get tested b/c if it required time off it would not be covered b/c they were not vaccinated; unintended consequences of penalizing unvaccinated.

Hope you are on the mend MD, hang in there.

[MDlaxfan76]

There's an interesting confluence about to occur between the Omicron case spike and the OSHA ETS that takes effect on Feb 9 (requiring all companies with >100 employees to implement a vax-or-test policy). In industries like gasoline refining/transport/storage, where roughly 50% of the workers are unvaxxed, many employees have continued to work even when mildly ill. However, when those employees are forced to test weekly and quarantine for 10 days after a positive test, facilities will shut down and filling stations may run out of product. It's already beginning to happen without the testing mandate. It will be fascinating to see whether the economic pinch is sufficient to cause further modification to testing/quarantine rules.

Your assumption is that COVID is/will be rampant in the ranks and employees will test positive in a big wave?
As opposed to Covid already swept through their ranks?

Indeed, could well be disruptive.

BTW, I think the quarantining rule has been changed already, but could be mistaken.

I'm not assuming - I'm watching it begin. We're already seeing staffing shortages due to a slew of mild reinfections and mild breakthrough cases ... and that's just the folks who get tested when they get sick. Prior to 2020, most of those people would have ignored their symptoms and reported to work. The test-or-vax mandate combined with Omicron will eliminate an entirely different group of employees from the workplace (those who are unvaxxed and didn't test when sick). Unfortunate timing. Will be interesting to see if SCOTUS actually bails out the current administration by staying/invalidating the OSHA ETS.

Interesting; thanks for the insight.

I can tell you that my breakthrough case right now is not "mild" (though I don't think going to develop worse) and I'd have avoided being in an office, pre-pandemic...same as a flu. If I was working outside and didn't have sick days and needed the dough, I'd be able to work, but sluggish at best.

If I wasn't vaccinated, as you're saying 50% aren't, I might well be having more serious symptoms. But I'm 64.

I'd be concerned about serious cases with the cohort you're describing.

smoova's example is certainly happening in our arena, it is chaotic and an absolute HR nightmare primarily for the contact tracing aspect, not to mention all the other mess with vax status/booster and timelines to even get a vax after having covid.

The reason our family got it was from a school employee, not vax'd, and did not want to get tested b/c if it required time off it would not be covered b/c they were not vaccinated; unintended consequences of penalizing unvaccinated.

Hope you are on the mend MD, hang in there.

You too, youth!

[Matnum PI]

Some health advisers to Biden’s transition team call on the administration to change its Covid strategy

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.Credit...Neilson Barnard/Getty Images for Klick Health
On the day President Biden was inaugurated, the advisory board of health experts who counseled him during the presidential transition officially ceased to exist. But its members have quietly continued to meet regularly over Zoom, their conversations often turning to frustration with Mr. Biden’s coronavirus response.

Now, six of these former advisers have gone public with an extraordinary, albeit polite, critique — and a plea to be heard. In three opinion articles published on Thursday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they are calling for Mr. Biden to adopt an entirely new pandemic strategy — one that is geared to the “new normal” of living with the virus indefinitely, not to wiping it out...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/06 ... d-strategy

[jhu72]

Leave it to TLD to subvert a discussion by asking a question of no relevance.

It's 100% relevant. Trump fans can't criticize Trump without melting. So what do they do? They pretend Fauci was in charge. It's transparently hilarious watching them pretend that Trump wasn't in charge of our pandemic response while in office.

Once Trump figured out the pandemic wasn't a joke, and stopped with the stupid stuff about media plots, bleach, etc? He did a fine job of getting us through.

Tech disagrees, obviously.

Ain’t falling for the spin Afan. We all knew Trump was grasping at straws trying to navigate this mess, while deferring to Birx and Fauxci....you know” the scientists”. Sure, hang your hat on the fact Trump has final say, but to argue he and damned near every state governor/mayor didn’t fall in line with Fauci and his associates is just silliness and being argumentative for the sake of arguing.

Bye Debbie: https://www.science.org/content/article ... rmined-cdc

“Birx's hospital data takeover fits a pattern in which she opposed CDC guidance, sometimes promoting President Donald Trump's policies or views against scientific consensus.”

... thanks, shines the light on how Trump dis-organization and crony-ism made things worse at the CDC. Most of this was not news to me. Have been hearing about it since Debbie was put in charge. I think Fauci is being given a pass. He knew about Debbie and still pushed for her in the position. I warned folks at the time of Birx and Fauci's appointment, about Fauci - he is a really good scientist that is also good at political gamesmanship directed at others in the field (CDC, FDA, NIH, military medicine, etc.). Of course Fauci also played the game well against Trump and his administration cronies, which helped during the crisis, kept them more honest than they wanted to be. He was a mixed bag.

[Matnum PI]

Anti-vaxer dies at 44.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/06 ... d-strategy

[jhu72]

Some health advisers to Biden’s transition team call on the administration to change its Covid strategy

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.Credit...Neilson Barnard/Getty Images for Klick Health
On the day President Biden was inaugurated, the advisory board of health experts who counseled him during the presidential transition officially ceased to exist. But its members have quietly continued to meet regularly over Zoom, their conversations often turning to frustration with Mr. Biden’s coronavirus response.

Now, six of these former advisers have gone public with an extraordinary, albeit polite, critique — and a plea to be heard. In three opinion articles published on Thursday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they are calling for Mr. Biden to adopt an entirely new pandemic strategy — one that is geared to the “new normal” of living with the virus indefinitely, not to wiping it out...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/06 ... d-strategy

... interesting, I had come to the conclusion that Biden had already done that. More and more I have seen people on his team talking about having lost the opportunity to eradicate the disease in the near term. Certainly recent CDC guidance has admitted to the reality that the disease is now moving / changing too quickly for us (globally) to keep up.

[Bart]

Some health advisers to Biden’s transition team call on the administration to change its Covid strategy

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who advised President Biden before he took office, is among the health experts who say the nation should adjust to the “new normal” of living with the coronavirus.Credit...Neilson Barnard/Getty Images for Klick Health
On the day President Biden was inaugurated, the advisory board of health experts who counseled him during the presidential transition officially ceased to exist. But its members have quietly continued to meet regularly over Zoom, their conversations often turning to frustration with Mr. Biden’s coronavirus response.

Now, six of these former advisers have gone public with an extraordinary, albeit polite, critique — and a plea to be heard. In three opinion articles published on Thursday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, they are calling for Mr. Biden to adopt an entirely new pandemic strategy — one that is geared to the “new normal” of living with the virus indefinitely, not to wiping it out...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/06 ... d-strategy

Here is the site where all these opinion articles are located.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/newonline/2022/1

They should be free. Interesting reads.

[a fan]

But I will say that for you and a fan (lawyer wanna be) to take the word "publish" out of context to obfuscate to make your point, is a perfect example.

So you REMOVE the word publish from a short email-----THE key word of the sentence you're quoting-----and then accuse US of spinning?

Neat. I get it....publish is a big word, and we can't possibly understand what that word means, so....you did us a service by "accidentally" removing it.

It's quite obvious that Collins' email was a clarion call to find and/or create as much opposition to snuff out other thinking/ideas,

Oh no Tech!!! Scientists are going to publish articles refuting an opposing view!!!!

We must stop them, Tech!!! Any ideas as to how??? Throw pocket-protecters at Fauci? Oh-----I've got it----throw one of those heavy scientific calculators right at Collin's head. That'll stop his diabolical plan to-----what was it again?-----oh, right: PUBLISH A SCIENTIFIC REBUTTAL!!

Boy, I bet Putin doesn't have to put up with this stuff. You and I should move there, where it's safe from these pesky scientists and their stupid science stuff.

Thanks for the laugh today. Can't wait to hear the next complaint you borrow from "some guy on the internet".

[a fan]

Your arguing Fauci was not the leader of covid science....mmmm okay. We’ve officially entered the Afan spin zone. The elected officials with spines, weighted all options, most everyone else,,,, worshipped Fauxci.


Look no further that Chicago schools....why are they not listening to Biden about school safety, oh you know why....might have something to do with Fauci messaging.

First of all, that's a political spat between a Union and the Mayor...but it's hilarious you think the union is listening to Fauci.

Second of all, read the CV for the Chicago Commissioner of the Dept. of Public Health. She doesn't need help to figure out what to do. Same goes for your State of Virginia. Check out her CV.....

You're not in policy/academic circles, my man. Fauci isn't the only person in America with medical bona fides. States have been operating independently this entire pandemic, whether you want to admit it or not. All Fauci does is advise. And as I said before....ever single State is doing its own thing...my point is right there for you to see....Chicago is handling schools, for example, differently than Denver.

That's all you need to see to understand that Fauci ain't leading doodly---- if he were, everyone would be doing the same thing. That ain't happening.

[jhu72]

A summary of Omicron symptoms and severity as a function of vaccination status.

[tech37]

But I will say that for you and a fan (lawyer wanna be) to take the word "publish" out of context to obfuscate to make your point, is a perfect example.

So you REMOVE the word publish from a short email-----THE key word of the sentence you're quoting-----and then accuse US of spinning?

Neat. I get it....publish is a big word, and we can't possibly understand what that word means, so....you did us a service by "accidentally" removing it.

It's quite obvious that Collins' email was a clarion call to find and/or create as much opposition to snuff out other thinking/ideas,

Oh no Tech!!! Scientists are going to publish articles refuting an opposing view!!!!

We must stop them, Tech!!! Any ideas as to how??? Throw pocket-protecters at Fauci? Oh-----I've got it----throw one of those heavy scientific calculators right at Collin's head. That'll stop his diabolical plan to-----what was it again?-----oh, right: PUBLISH A SCIENTIFIC REBUTTAL!!

Boy, I bet Putin doesn't have to put up with this stuff. You and I should move there, where it's safe from these pesky scientists and their stupid science stuff.

Thanks for the laugh today. Can't wait to hear the next complaint you borrow from "some guy on the internet".

Give it a rest. I removed nothing. I cut and pasted an article headline which didn't include it.

But again, "published" has no bearing on Collins' motivation anyway (and that's my point). The truly relevant words are: "There needs to be a quick devastating takedown." He's not looking for peer reviewed publications a fan, he's calling for establishment and social media support, "online."

Your focus on "published" is a distraction/red herring, no surprise.

The balance of your silly post is not worth responding to.

[a fan]

But I will say that for you and a fan (lawyer wanna be) to take the word "publish" out of context to obfuscate to make your point, is a perfect example.

So you REMOVE the word publish from a short email-----THE key word of the sentence you're quoting-----and then accuse US of spinning?

Neat. I get it....publish is a big word, and we can't possibly understand what that word means, so....you did us a service by "accidentally" removing it.

It's quite obvious that Collins' email was a clarion call to find and/or create as much opposition to snuff out other thinking/ideas,

Oh no Tech!!! Scientists are going to publish articles refuting an opposing view!!!!

We must stop them, Tech!!! Any ideas as to how??? Throw pocket-protecters at Fauci? Oh-----I've got it----throw one of those heavy scientific calculators right at Collin's head. That'll stop his diabolical plan to-----what was it again?-----oh, right: PUBLISH A SCIENTIFIC REBUTTAL!!

Boy, I bet Putin doesn't have to put up with this stuff. You and I should move there, where it's safe from these pesky scientists and their stupid science stuff.

Thanks for the laugh today. Can't wait to hear the next complaint you borrow from "some guy on the internet".

Give it a rest. I removed nothing. I cut and pasted an article headline which didn't include it.

Yes. And why do you think they removed that word, Tech? All to get guys like you to claim conspiracy.

And you fell for it. You always do----anytime there's just a tiny possibility of conspiracy....you're all over it.

But again, "published" has no bearing on Collins' motivation anyway (and that's my point). The truly relevant words are: "There needs to be a quick devastating takedown." He's not looking for peer reviewed publications a fan, he's calling for establishment and social media support, "online."

Neither are the scientists you cite, Tech. That British Doctor you keep citing? Are those peer reviewed? F no. Odd, you "forgot" to complain that his work wasn't "peer reviewed".

So sure, hold Collins and Fauci to a peer reviewed standard that you're not holding the rest of your "some guy on the internets" to, right? Because that's what you do. If YOU like an idea----it's perfect, and doesn't need peer reviewed publication.

Your focus on "published" is a distraction/red herring, no surprise.

Right. No matter what, it's a conspiracy. You can't help yourself but to reach for the tinfoil before you roll out of bed.

All of these opposing views are easy to find, as GGait points out. YOU found them, FFS. There's a bunch of opposing views on how to handle the pandemic in the NYTimes, right now, today. OMG, tech!!! The NYTimes is in on the scientific suppression conspiracy, too!!

I mean: why else would they publish opposing views to Fauci? It's a trick, Tech! I advise you don't fall for it, and don't read the NYTimes piece.

By the way? I"m in on the conspiracy. So don't trust what I write.

[jhu72]

Another bag-o-nuts anti-vaxxer kills himself. It wasn't COVID - it was an anthrax attack!

[Carroll81]

Your arguing Fauci was not the leader of covid science....mmmm okay. We’ve officially entered the Afan spin zone. The elected officials with spines, weighted all options, most everyone else,,,, worshipped Fauxci.


Look no further that Chicago schools....why are they not listening to Biden about school safety, oh you know why....might have something to do with Fauci messaging.

First of all, that's a political spat between a Union and the Mayor...but it's hilarious you think the union is listening to Fauci.

Second of all, read the CV for the Chicago Commissioner of the Dept. of Public Health. She doesn't need help to figure out what to do. Same goes for your State of Virginia. Check out her CV.....

You're not in policy/academic circles, my man. Fauci isn't the only person in America with medical bona fides. States have been operating independently this entire pandemic, whether you want to admit it or not. All Fauci does is advise. And as I said before....ever single State is doing its own thing...my point is right there for you to see....Chicago is handling schools, for example, differently than Denver.

That's all you need to see to understand that Fauci ain't leading doodly---- if he were, everyone would be doing the same thing. That ain't happening.

If you agree, which I do, the question is:
Why do they let him keep talking?

Is it because he says the right thing or because it takes the pressure off others to talk?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Your arguing Fauci was not the leader of covid science....mmmm okay. We’ve officially entered the Afan spin zone. The elected officials with spines, weighted all options, most everyone else,,,, worshipped Fauxci.


Look no further that Chicago schools....why are they not listening to Biden about school safety, oh you know why....might have something to do with Fauci messaging.

First of all, that's a political spat between a Union and the Mayor...but it's hilarious you think the union is listening to Fauci.

Second of all, read the CV for the Chicago Commissioner of the Dept. of Public Health. She doesn't need help to figure out what to do. Same goes for your State of Virginia. Check out her CV.....

You're not in policy/academic circles, my man. Fauci isn't the only person in America with medical bona fides. States have been operating independently this entire pandemic, whether you want to admit it or not. All Fauci does is advise. And as I said before....ever single State is doing its own thing...my point is right there for you to see....Chicago is handling schools, for example, differently than Denver.

That's all you need to see to understand that Fauci ain't leading doodly---- if he were, everyone would be doing the same thing. That ain't happening.

If you agree, which I do, the question is:
Why do they let him keep talking?

Is it because he says the right thing or because it takes the pressure off others to talk?

Sometimes.

[a fan]

Your arguing Fauci was not the leader of covid science....mmmm okay. We’ve officially entered the Afan spin zone. The elected officials with spines, weighted all options, most everyone else,,,, worshipped Fauxci.


Look no further that Chicago schools....why are they not listening to Biden about school safety, oh you know why....might have something to do with Fauci messaging.

First of all, that's a political spat between a Union and the Mayor...but it's hilarious you think the union is listening to Fauci.

Second of all, read the CV for the Chicago Commissioner of the Dept. of Public Health. She doesn't need help to figure out what to do. Same goes for your State of Virginia. Check out her CV.....

You're not in policy/academic circles, my man. Fauci isn't the only person in America with medical bona fides. States have been operating independently this entire pandemic, whether you want to admit it or not. All Fauci does is advise. And as I said before....ever single State is doing its own thing...my point is right there for you to see....Chicago is handling schools, for example, differently than Denver.

That's all you need to see to understand that Fauci ain't leading doodly---- if he were, everyone would be doing the same thing. That ain't happening.

If you agree, which I do, the question is:
Why do they let him keep talking?

Well, the only person who can shut him up, or take away his platform is Biden. I don't have an answer for you. If I had my way? He'd give monthly briefings at most at this point in the pandemic. Let the States do the talking.

The one thing that is clear to my eyes, at least, is that cracks are forming in DC. Because right now? The States are behaving as if they don't care about the unvaxxed, but the Federal response is to still take care of the unvaxxed.....and treat the overflowing hospitals as a problem.

Once Biden and his team decide to only look at hospital and death numbers for the vaccinated? The pandemic is over, and everyone will move on. That hasn't happened yet.....unfortunately, imho.

Is it because he says the right thing or because it takes the pressure off others to talk?

I can't speak for every State...but here in Colorado, the Governor and his health team give briefings every couple of weeks or so. Fauci doesn't keep him from talking. And Fauci provides zero political cover for Governors.

[smoova]

Once Biden and his team decide to only look at hospital and death numbers for the vaccinated? The pandemic is over, and everyone will move on.

Amen.