All things CoronaVirus

[SCLaxAttack]

EZ. ...don't swear in the unvaxxed. You have to be fit & healthy to get in.

But you don't need to be fit and healthy to stay in?

Makes perfect sense.

Up is down. Down is up.

Every time you post you reveal how little you know about this.

You still have to pass an annual physical, meet BMI standards & pass strenuous recurring PRT's.

So you think you're going to make your silliness make sense by giving me pointless details, OS?

You're trying to sell the idea that it's unimportant to have vaccinated soldiers on duty. Your superiors in the military disagree with you.

So do Federal Judges.

the > 5% unvaxxed (& decreasing) are irrelevant to readiness.

Right. That's yet another reason as to why there were discharged. Glad we agree.

We definitely do not agree. They were discharged because they could be, nor because they needed to be discharged.

Just out of curiosity, how many people are in a field artillery battery, or a plane maintenance crew, or a SEAL team, or a USASOC ODA? For argument sake let’s say ten, because it’s close to that. Using this 5% number half those important military units might not be at full strength.

Not important though.

[a fan]

here's me leaving out context or ignoring something again. what are the numbers on anti-vaxxers ignoring treatment for too long?
redlener says "a lot". is there at least an 800 person survey on it?

Nope. No survey. Just common sense applied to the behavior of the unvaxxed for the last year, and the demographics of the unvaxxed.

Rural. Poor. Uneducated. Skeptical of science and doctors. And no, not all of them are that.

But in what world is that a recipe for getting access to a pill at the correct time? You're picturing Joe Rogan. I'm picturing the farm hands, construction workers, and truck drivers that I work with. Even if they wanted a test (they don't)? They don't have time for that *hit.

Now apply these common sense numbers to 100,000,000+ Americans. Yep, a pill may help some. Never said it wouldn't.

But it won't get us out of this mess as some think. And yep, again, that's my opinion, not an absolute.

and speaking of redlener, are you still working on the > 5 day doesn't work link?

You'll have to go to the study results yourself. It's enough to say that there is a window for therapeutics to work. You can't take it before you get Covid....that's a massive shortcoming.

And I'm already seeing stories about side effects of the pills. Good luck with that when the tin foil hats get ahold of that info.....

[old salt]

25% of the covid inpatients at our local hospital are breakthrough cases of vaxed patients.

A covid pill would have helped them. They would have showed up in time.

[old salt]

EZ. ...don't swear in the unvaxxed. You have to be fit & healthy to get in.

But you don't need to be fit and healthy to stay in?

Makes perfect sense.

Up is down. Down is up.

Every time you post you reveal how little you know about this.

You still have to pass an annual physical, meet BMI standards & pass strenuous recurring PRT's.

So you think you're going to make your silliness make sense by giving me pointless details, OS?

You're trying to sell the idea that it's unimportant to have vaccinated soldiers on duty. Your superiors in the military disagree with you.

So do Federal Judges.

the > 5% unvaxxed (& decreasing) are irrelevant to readiness.

Right. That's yet another reason as to why there were discharged. Glad we agree.

We definitely do not agree. They were discharged because they could be, nor because they needed to be discharged.

Just out of curiosity, how many people are in a field artillery battery, or a plane maintenance crew, or a SEAL team, or a USASOC ODA? For argument sake let’s say ten, because it’s close to that. Using this 5% number half those important military units might not be at full strength.

Not important though.

Being unvaxxed does not render them incapable of performing their mission. As a unit or individual.
You don't deploy or launch at reduced strength. It degrades the homeguard & makes it harder preparing for the next deployment.
< means less than. No way to know what the final % of unvaxxed would be if we wait.
It's not an effective way to shape the force.

[a fan]

25% of the covid inpatients at our local hospital are breakthrough cases of vaxed patients.

A covid pill would have helped them. They would have showed up in time.

Yes. Show me where I said it wouldn't?

Goalposts have been in the same place in this discussion: my position is that pills won't succeed in getting the 100,000,000+ unvaccinated out of the pandemic.

[wgdsr]

here's me leaving out context or ignoring something again. what are the numbers on anti-vaxxers ignoring treatment for too long?
redlener says "a lot". is there at least an 800 person survey on it?

Nope. No survey. Just common sense applied to the behavior of the unvaxxed for the last year, and the demographics of the unvaxxed.

Rural. Poor. Uneducated. Skeptical of science and doctors. And no, not all of them are that.

But in what world is that a recipe for getting access to a pill at the correct time? You're picturing Joe Rogan. I'm picturing the farm hands, construction workers, and truck drivers that I work with. Even if they wanted a test (they don't)? They don't have time for that *hit.

Now apply these common sense numbers to 100,000,000+ Americans. Yep, a pill may help some. Never said it wouldn't.

But it won't get us out of this mess as some think. And yep, again, that's my opinion, not an absolute.
i will settle for the tens of millions that are going and getting tested.

and speaking of redlener, are you still working on the > 5 day doesn't work link?

You'll have to go to the study results yourself. It's enough to say that there is a window for therapeutics to work. You can't take it before you get Covid....that's a massive shortcoming.

And I'm already seeing stories about side effects of the pills. Good luck with that when the tin foil hats get ahold of that info.....

i have gone to the study results. nowhere does it say they don't work after 5 days. i brought this up as a result of our balt sun discussion.

i've seen plenty of notes that merck's pill could have side effects. haven't seen anything on paxlovid, tho about every drug does, doesn't it? i'm excited for the new pills.

[old salt]

25% of the covid inpatients at our local hospital are breakthrough cases of vaxed patients.

A covid pill would have helped them. They would have showed up in time.

Yes. Show me where I said it wouldn't?

Goalposts have been in the same place in this discussion: my position is that pills won't succeed in getting the 100,000,000+ unvaccinated out of the pandemic.

Moral: vaccines are the only way out of this. Or death for the unvaxxed, of course. 100,000,000+ Americans are unvaxxed. Problem? What problem?

You assume that the sick unvaxxed won't show up in time to take the pill if they test +.
Evidence or just your biased opinion ?

[old salt]

...the demographics of the unvaxxed.

Rural. Poor. Uneducated. Skeptical of science and doctors. And no, not all of them are that.

...I'm picturing the farm hands, construction workers, and truck drivers that I work with. Even if they wanted a test (they don't)? They don't have time for that *hit.

...And yep, again, that's my opinion, not an absolute.

He reflected on the trip and the country he had crossed. "I think we're in pretty good shape," he said. "The thing that's always amazed me is how it works. People who live on farms don't want to live in big cities. People who live in big cities don't want to be farmers. If everyone wanted the same thing, or wanted to live in the same place, the thing would never work. There are people who are as happy as hell living in Kearney, Nebraska, and eating at Grandpa's. There are people who are as happy as hell living in the middle of nowhere.

"Probably above that, what I've learned traveling around is this: People are nice. You go to a big city, and you hear the world is going to hell, but it's not true. Small parts of it are; the whole isn't. Hey, all we have to do is spread out a little bit, because we have a lot of space. You get out there, and it makes you feel better about America. The thing works."
-- John Madden

[tech37]

And on the therapeutics front.....I seem to remember someone getting shouted down for pointing out the bolded part below.


Plus, both pills only work if the patient takes them within five days of their first symptoms. That’s a prohibitively short window in a country where COVID testing is still inadequate. Many people won’t know they’re infected in time to get a prescription and start taking the pills. “A lot of people don’t get tested right away,” Redlener said. “If you don’t catch it early, three to five days, these pills won’t help you.”


Moral: vaccines are the only way out of this. Or death for the unvaxxed, of course. 100,000,000+ Americans are unvaxxed. Problem? What problem?



https://www.thedailybeast.com/dreams-of ... d?ref=home

i was told tests are on the way....

You think anti-vaxxers would test enough to catch Covid early? I don't.
Geez a fan, have you fallen for a Daily Beast click bait headline?

As I outlined for Tech, these treatments ASSUME a rational, relatively wealthy patient in an Urban area, with easy access to doctors and hospitals.
Outlined? You wrote a sentence or two.

That's not the demographic of the average anti-vaxxer. It's obvious that these pills are not going to help the anti vaxxers in large enough numbers to make a dent in the overall problem.
Do we know the demographic of the average unvaxxed (source)? Obvious?

They're going to show up at ER's too late for help.....

how does this redlener know they only work in the 1st 5 days? how did pfizer know? brilliant, i'd be interested in knowing how he /she and they did this.

The trials that got them approved for use.
Yeah, it's hard to believe the pills were approved without considering a reasonable window of infection. The patients involved in Paxlovid testing, e.g., which resulted in such positive results, must have been ill for a while, no? What am i missing?

[ggait]

If the mouth breathers could actually read and understand facts, they'd run away from those new Merck pills and gladly take their shots instead.

But being from DumbForkistan and unable to look beyond their polluted Facebook pages, of course they will do the exact opposite of that. The deplorables will gobble those pills no questions asked. But here's what they should consider:

1. The pills aren’t cheap. Merck's molnupiravir course could set you back $700. Pfizer shot is $20.

2. The pills won't be much available. Merck’s production goal is 30 million courses through the end of NEXT year. They won’t stretch very far—not when the U.S. alone registered 540,000 new COVID infections on Monday.

3. The pills don't work all that great. The final data points to molnupiravir reducing deaths by just a third. “Thirty percent isn’t super, but if it means preventing almost one-third of hospitalizations, that’s still rather important,” Otto Yang, an expert in infectious diseases at UCLA, told The Daily Beast.

4. There are also safety risks with molnupiravir. Because it works by altering a virus’s genes, there’s a chance the drug might also cause dangerous mutations in a patient’s healthy cells. Sounds pretty scary to me. But I guess not nearly as scary as getting injected with Bill Gates' micro-chip, right?

5. The FDA barely approved these pills, and only on an EUA basis. Ten of the FDA panel’s 23 members actually voted against authorization. “That’s a lot of not-in-favor [votes],” Redlener said.

Bottom line, those Merck pills are pretty risky, expensive, and don't work so well. But when the MBs start flooding your ER, “Something is probably better than nothing,” Hojat said.

P.S. The Pfizer pills, while still extremely weak sauce as compared to the shots, seem to be more promising then the Merck pills.

[SCLaxAttack]

EZ. ...don't swear in the unvaxxed. You have to be fit & healthy to get in.

But you don't need to be fit and healthy to stay in?

Makes perfect sense.

Up is down. Down is up.

Every time you post you reveal how little you know about this.

You still have to pass an annual physical, meet BMI standards & pass strenuous recurring PRT's.

So you think you're going to make your silliness make sense by giving me pointless details, OS?

You're trying to sell the idea that it's unimportant to have vaccinated soldiers on duty. Your superiors in the military disagree with you.

So do Federal Judges.

the > 5% unvaxxed (& decreasing) are irrelevant to readiness.

Right. That's yet another reason as to why there were discharged. Glad we agree.

We definitely do not agree. They were discharged because they could be, nor because they needed to be discharged.

Just out of curiosity, how many people are in a field artillery battery, or a plane maintenance crew, or a SEAL team, or a USASOC ODA? For argument sake let’s say ten, because it’s close to that. Using this 5% number half those important military units might not be at full strength.

Not important though.

Being unvaxxed does not render them incapable of performing their mission. As a unit or individual.
You don't deploy or launch at reduced strength. It degrades the homeguard & makes it harder preparing for the next deployment.
< means less than. No way to know what the final % of unvaxxed would be if we wait.
It's not an effective way to shape the force.

Says the vet who deployed decades ago when the “take your shots” statement wasn’t prefaced by “pretty please”. I have a son-in-law Field Artillery Brigade XO who deployed to Iraq for 10 months starting in August 2020 who would tell you they did deploy at weakened strength and couldn’t do anything about the soldiers who declined the JNJ vaccine when it became available to them in Iraq in February, except quarantine them when they became ill and shuffle battery staffing around to accommodate battalion requirements.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If the mouth breathers could actually read and understand facts, they'd run away from those new Merck pills and gladly take their shots instead.

But being from DumbForkistan and unable to look beyond their polluted Facebook pages, of course they will do the exact opposite of that. The deplorables will gobble those pills no questions asked. But here's what they should consider:

1. The pills aren’t cheap. Merck's molnupiravir course could set you back $700. Pfizer shot is $20.

2. The pills won't be much available. Merck’s production goal is 30 million courses through the end of NEXT year. They won’t stretch very far—not when the U.S. alone registered 540,000 new COVID infections on Monday.

3. The pills don't work all that great. The final data points to molnupiravir reducing deaths by just a third. “Thirty percent isn’t super, but if it means preventing almost one-third of hospitalizations, that’s still rather important,” Otto Yang, an expert in infectious diseases at UCLA, told The Daily Beast.

4. There are also safety risks with molnupiravir. Because it works by altering a virus’s genes, there’s a chance the drug might also cause dangerous mutations in a patient’s healthy cells. Sounds pretty scary to me. But I guess not nearly as scary as getting injected with Bill Gates' micro-chip, right?

5. The FDA barely approved these pills, and only on an EUA basis. Ten of the FDA panel’s 23 members actually voted against authorization. “That’s a lot of not-in-favor [votes],” Redlener said.

Bottom line, those Merck pills are pretty risky, expensive, and don't work so well. But when the MBs start flooding your ER, “Something is probably better than nothing,” Hojat said.

P.S. The Pfizer pills, while still extremely weak sauce as compared to the shots, seem to be more promising then the Merck pills.

Don’t tell Tech.

[ggait]

Don’t tell Tech.

No big deal that those Merck pills might cause mutations of your healthy cells. Yikes!

No big deal that 43% of the FDA panel docs voted against approving those pills. Yikes!

But anything is better than having those snooty coastal lib turds (you know, jerks like me) tell you what to do. As Stupid Sarah oh so aptly put it, she'll take her shot over her dead body. Muh ruy-iots!!

Due to the multi millions of DumbForkistaners here in the USA, the only way the pandemic will actually end is when it dies out on its own. There's a chance Omicron (after the next several months of shirt show) might be the way that happens.

[a fan]

here's me leaving out context or ignoring something again. what are the numbers on anti-vaxxers ignoring treatment for too long?
redlener says "a lot". is there at least an 800 person survey on it?

Nope. No survey. Just common sense applied to the behavior of the unvaxxed for the last year, and the demographics of the unvaxxed.

Rural. Poor. Uneducated. Skeptical of science and doctors. And no, not all of them are that.

But in what world is that a recipe for getting access to a pill at the correct time? You're picturing Joe Rogan. I'm picturing the farm hands, construction workers, and truck drivers that I work with. Even if they wanted a test (they don't)? They don't have time for that *hit.

Now apply these common sense numbers to 100,000,000+ Americans. Yep, a pill may help some. Never said it wouldn't.

But it won't get us out of this mess as some think. And yep, again, that's my opinion, not an absolute.
i will settle for the tens of millions that are going and getting tested.

and speaking of redlener, are you still working on the > 5 day doesn't work link?

You'll have to go to the study results yourself. It's enough to say that there is a window for therapeutics to work. You can't take it before you get Covid....that's a massive shortcoming.

And I'm already seeing stories about side effects of the pills. Good luck with that when the tin foil hats get ahold of that info.....

i have gone to the study results. nowhere does it say they don't work after 5 days. i brought this up as a result of our balt sun discussion.

i've seen plenty of notes that merck's pill could have side effects. haven't seen anything on paxlovid, tho about every drug does, doesn't it? i'm excited for the new pills.

Ok. Be excited, and ignore what I'm trying to tell you. You all think that these people are going to behave like a $100K a year salaried city dweller with good insurance, plenty of time on their hands for testing, and easy access to doctors and medical care. And are motivated to be on the lookout for Covid at all times. Oh and they have to trust doctors, the new pills you're touting, know that they are free, know that they have Covid...and arrive within whatever window the drugs need in order to be effective. Call me crazy----and yes, I HOPE you are right, and I'm wrong yet again----but I"m not seeing it. Again, we have over 100,000,000+ unvaccinated...that's a whole lot of Americans that need to time these drugs correctly.

Know what I was excited about? The vaccines! I thought for certain we'd be out of this mess long before this winter. How'd my optimism and gullibility work out? I completely discounted all of the above points I made and more. I was REALLY wrong.

And so here we still are....1,200+ dead per day with a vaccine readily available that would cut that number by 80% or more.

[wgdsr]

i'm not ignoring anything you're telling me. you believe they'll be in some manner, or maybe majorly, ineffective. i got it.

i'm not ruling that out for any number of reasons (including the virus seems to be one step ahead at all times), but i expect them (pfizer) to be very beneficial, in the intermediate term. it's not like i'm out on a limb here, plenty of other sciencey types have said the same. maybe the ceiling is close to very-high-vaxx-rate good.

we're all just making stupid predictions. the vaxx numbers look like they're about what they were gonna be by polling over a year ago. not really surprising to me, but i've decided to be wrong on a bunch of other things.

[old salt]

Says the vet who deployed decades ago when the “take your shots” statement wasn’t prefaced by “pretty please”. I have a son-in-law Field Artillery Brigade XO who deployed to Iraq for 10 months starting in August 2020 who would tell you they did deploy at weakened strength and couldn’t do anything about the soldiers who declined the JNJ vaccine when it became available to them in Iraq in February, except quarantine them when they became ill and shuffle battery staffing around to accommodate battalion requirements.

Different time, different circumstances. They deployed before the vax was available, right ? Would they have to deploy now short staffed or with unvaxxed soldiers ? Did he write unfavorable evaluations on the unvaxxed & not recommend them for promotion, & warn them he was going to do so & why ? There are incentives short of discharge, now that we know so much more, have such high vax rates & omicron will likely impart acquired immunity to the few remaining unvaxxed. Let omicron run it's course, then reassess the fate of the ever-dwindling number of unvaxxed remnants.

[DMac]

If the mouth breathers could actually read and understand facts, they'd run away from those new Merck pills and gladly take their shots instead.

But being from DumbForkistan and unable to look beyond their polluted Facebook pages, of course they will do the exact opposite of that. The deplorables will gobble those pills no questions asked. But here's what they should consider:

Your arrogance is palpable, anyone who doesn't see things exactly as ggait does is a DumbForkinstanian Mouth Breather.
I'm watching a family implode (not mine), this kind of language is being used there too. I'm not so sure that family ever recovers from some of the things, much like your language, that have been said and how they view one another right now. Covid's effects are far more than just physical.
Of course, that's but a small sample of what's going on nationwide too, but your kind of language does nothing but drive the wedge of divide in a little deeper.

[tech37]

It's amazing how a misleading, sensational headline has people on here reacting like lunatics.

Panacea? That is the first time I've seen/heard that word used regarding the Covid pills. "but experts fear they will not solve all of our problems"... where did that come from, who has said they would? As for the rest, we'll see as facts over time emerge from more reliable sources.

[Kismet]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/30/us/a ... cases.html

"As At-Home Tests Surge, Doubts Rise About Accuracy of Public Covid Counts
Most of the results of rapid tests are not reported. That’s magnifying questions about how best to measure the spread of the virus."

This indicates to me that the number of infections is vastly undercounted and begs the question if the metric should change especially if Omicron variant is generally less severe including breakthrough infection for vaccinated folks. Is it time to mirror more of what is done for flu?

"The quick rise of at-home testing could be a tipping point in a conversation that began for public health experts months ago. At issue is the feasibility of shifting to less frequent case reporting or a “sentinel surveillance” system like the one that public health officials currently use to track other diseases like the flu, which relies on a network of health care centers that track instances of the virus. Overall case numbers are extrapolated based on those case numbers.

Concerns have also emerged about the accuracy of the tests themselves. /i]The Food and Drug Administration said on Tuesday that antigen tests do detect the Omicron variant but not as effectively as they detect other variants.

The quick rise of at-home testing could be a tipping point in a conversation that began for public health experts months ago. At issue is the feasibility of shifting to less frequent case reporting or a “sentinel surveillance” system like the one that public health officials currently use to track other diseases like the flu, which relies on a network of health care centers that track instances of the virus. Overall case numbers are extrapolated based on those case numbers."

[youthathletics]

If the mouth breathers could actually read and understand facts, they'd run away from those new Merck pills and gladly take their shots instead.

But being from DumbForkistan and unable to look beyond their polluted Facebook pages, of course they will do the exact opposite of that. The deplorables will gobble those pills no questions asked. But here's what they should consider:

Your arrogance is palpable, anyone who doesn't see things exactly as ggait does is a DumbForkinstanian Mouth Breather.
I'm watching a family implode (not mine), this kind of language is being used there too. I'm not so sure that family ever recovers from some of the things, much like your language, that have been said and how they view one another right now. Covid's effects are far more than just physical.
Of course, that's but a small sample of what's going on nationwide too, but your kind of language does nothing but drive the wedge of divide in a little deeper.

+1