Johns Hopkins 2020

[DA/PU]

thanks for response. didn't know the threshold for redshirting.

[loyola11]

Brutal to current team; almost unheard of in lax.
If it's going to happen, look for it in first couple of weeks after whenever Hop season ends.
And that's a big IF.

I'm not so sure a rebound won't happen.
Will that be enough to renew hope that the next couple of years will show marked improvement?
I dunno, but I DO know that there's a sense that they have two excellent incoming classes.

I know, I know, we've heard that before.
I'm just reporting what I've heard away from these boards.

There was a moment a couple of years ago when it looked like Petro might, for both personal and professional reasons, bump to another program with potential, ala the Tierney move. Not sure that's in the cards right now, but that would be the sort of appropriate situation, I think.

Thanks.

I'm trying to put myself in the players' shoes and questioning how I'd feel, and I just don't know. I sense a change is coming there, and assuming that is the case, whoever gets that role would walk into an enviable position: all of those resources and nowhere to go but up.

These current players where recruited out of 8th grade and where promised the world and a natty championship if they came to Hopkins. I bet they feel duped by promises not kept. It does seem to be time to change leadership and see if you can right the ship.

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

[steel_hop]

Begging to think that Epstein has more than just an MCL sprain. His lack of forward burst is apparent.

Doubt it. Even a low-grade MCL sprain can be very painful and take months to fully recover. A grade 2 or 3 sprain would completely explain the lack of burst—there doesn't need to be anything else going on. Plus the bulky brace on his leg doesn't exactly make it easier to run. Doctors cleared him to play. That would not be the case if there was more significant damage (especially to the ACL).

Everything I know about Epstein is that he's a true competitor (soph captain, weight room junkie, playing hurt), but has there been any thought of him redshirting? He probably wants to play for his team and coach, but I hate to think he will spend 1 of his 4 seasons on one leg. Love his game and competitiveness so if he keeps playing, I hope he gets right.

He's already played in three games—one more would put him over the 30% threshold of total games (assuming no postseason contests) and disqualify him from a medical redshirt. Even if he didn't play another game this season I still don't think the NCAA would grant him a waiver. It's not like he got injured and then was forced to miss the remainder of the season. They've already tried putting him back in the lineup. That doesn't really help the argument. "He got hurt but we still played him for several games and THEN decided we don't want him to play anymore." Not sure that reasoning will hold up in the Court of NCAA Redshirts, your honor.

If he sat before the SU game and didn't play the rest of the year, it can be easily argued that he reaggrevated the injury or he didn't feel comfortable or other stability issues cropped up. Happens all the time. NCAA isn't that strict on 5th years that they would get into the weeds and would question a guy that tried to play and then sat.

Saying that I doubt he does that. He seems like a guy that wants to play no matter what.

[Cooter]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

Whoa, that is going a little far.
Do you know Epstein personally? What his values are?

[HopFan16]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

[GSP]

There are 8 At-Large spots in the Tourney. With the seasons that Yale, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell are having (all 4 in top 10), it is VERY likely they get 3 of the At-Large births. The ACC sitting at a combined 19 and 4 record ( with all 4 in the top 10 and Duke, notorious for late season charges at #14) will probably get 5, but almost certainly will get 4 At-Large bids. Army and Loyola are likely which is 1 more At-Large. The loser of Penn St and UMD will almost certainly get in. That's either 9 or 10 squads dividing up 8 slots.

Which 2 or 3 of those teams does a 7 and 7 Hopkins team whose best wins are against Towson, Mt St Mary's, Navy, Delaware, Michigan, Rutgers, and one of OSU/UMD beat out for an At-Large bid?????
A loss to a #1 Syracuse team means that its the B1G AQ or go home. At 1 and 4 and not even in the Top 25, which win in the next 5 games against teams that are also not in the Top 25 even puts them into the top 20?

I feel sorry for DP. His sideline antics will make it almost impossible for him to find another school willing to take that burden on. How would fans and alumni react to that type of behavior? Coming off a 7 and 7 season and the results of the last half dozen years, how would you bring him into a locker room with 20 or 25 rising juniors and seniors who would need to buy into the type of regimen change that he would bring? Very sad!

[jhu08]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

Agreed. I feel like Epstein lives and breathes Hopkins lacrosse. He ain’t going anywhere.

[MDlaxfan76]

Begging to think that Epstein has more than just an MCL sprain. His lack of forward burst is apparent.

Doubt it. Even a low-grade MCL sprain can be very painful and take months to fully recover. A grade 2 or 3 sprain would completely explain the lack of burst—there doesn't need to be anything else going on. Plus the bulky brace on his leg doesn't exactly make it easier to run. Doctors cleared him to play. That would not be the case if there was more significant damage (especially to the ACL).

Everything I know about Epstein is that he's a true competitor (soph captain, weight room junkie, playing hurt), but has there been any thought of him redshirting? He probably wants to play for his team and coach, but I hate to think he will spend 1 of his 4 seasons on one leg. Love his game and competitiveness so if he keeps playing, I hope he gets right.

He's already played in three games—one more would put him over the 30% threshold of total games (assuming no postseason contests) and disqualify him from a medical redshirt. Even if he didn't play another game this season I still don't think the NCAA would grant him a waiver. It's not like he got injured and then was forced to miss the remainder of the season. They've already tried putting him back in the lineup. That doesn't really help the argument. "He got hurt but we still played him for several games and THEN decided we don't want him to play anymore." Not sure that reasoning will hold up in the Court of NCAA Redshirts, your honor.

I'm not an authority on this, but I think it's more cut and dried. Did he play in more than 30% or not, and was his not playing because of an injury.
It would be pretty unequivocal.

Players who are injured risk re-injury, and while 'cleared' to do so, it would be pretty easy to say that the injury was bothering him, he was in pain, and he decided to not risk further injury. Who would argue with that? The real factor is whether he'd already played too much of the season. I wouldn't think any competitors would really object either, as there but for the grace of god go I.

[MDlaxfan76]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

Agreed. I feel like Epstein lives and breathes Hopkins lacrosse. He ain’t going anywhere.

The ONLY way that would be the case would be if Petro has been pressuring Epstein to play over the objections of his family and outside docs and they're PO'd about it AND if Petro is still in the job for 2021. But that's 2 big Ifs.

It's not impossible that the former is the case, but we certainly would hope not. I say that, though, because I saw it happen multiple times in another program where you'd really think athlete wellbeing would be first and foremost. Made a number of parents absolutely furious, though our sons gritted their teeth and did as the coach demanded. In one case, destroyed the #1 recruit in the nation. In my son's case, ridiculous amount of pain without even being allowed to practice...just try to pass a run test, again, and again and again and again. Had to use crutches, couldn't walk after run test attempts! Finally told the coach he was getting the surgery if he wasn't even going to be able to take shots so as to be ready to play...heck, at that point he was #3 tender (but only 3 tenders on roster), so likelihood of being needed was low. But dumb rule that you had to be able to pass a grueling test (which he certainly could do when healthy) in order to practice. Coach said his team mates would think he was a quitter. Son knew better. When surgeon finally did the hip surgery found three tears from continued grinding. Stupid.

So, it's not 100% implausible.
Coaches can think of their own career objectives over good of any individual athlete.

[OCanada]

Is it conceivable a coach might do it or that other coaches have done it. But it didn’t happen; but I am up for a wager with Loyola11 too

[loyola11]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

I think Epstein is a competitor, he will never win one at Hopkins, he will be doomed to .500 seasons. Gray did not stay at Boston U, he saw the writing on the wall.

And i would say the dumbest posts are ones prior to the season thinking that you could compete or this was the year you would be at final four weekend. Not happening. Or better yet, the chant 44 and we want more, come on guys, the lacrosse world has changed since the last time you won. There are more teams that compete, when you won there where just a handful of teams that competed year in and year out for the national championship.

[primitiveskills]

The other factor with Epstein is the family connection aspect. It's probably more than just a lacrosse thing.

11- not sure if you were trying to make the point that JHU should be wary of moving on from Petro to minimize the risk of losing current players or recruits, but I find that a poor reason for keeping a coach around. Especially in a situation like JHU where the program looks to be in decline. If administration thinks a new direction is needed, then individual recuits or players aren't going to supply that, so you've done nothing to address the problem.

[loyola11]

The other factor with Epstein is the family connection aspect. It's probably more than just a lacrosse thing.

11- not sure if you were trying to make the point that JHU should be wary of moving on from Petro to minimize the risk of losing current players or recruits, but I find that a poor reason for keeping a coach around. Especially in a situation like JHU where the program looks to be in decline. If administration thinks a new direction is needed, then individual recuits or players aren't going to supply that, so you've done nothing to address the problem.

I think the move is away from Petro, he had his run, time to move on... he has had some of the top recruiting classes and he just cannot translate it into wins. I have spoke to some families of the Hopkins families and they are frustrated with the state of the program. I am a Loyola fan and with the 4 and 5 star players Hopkins gets vs Loyola, these games should not be even close.

[Big Dog]

Hopkins did reduce their SOS some by replacing UVa with Navy on their schedule, which might make it tough to make it in with a 7-7 record this year.
As you note beating Towson, MSM, Navy, Delaware, Michigan and Rutgers would probably not give Hopkins any quality wins. OSU is looking sort of border-line right now - perhaps an 11-20 win. So ICGrad's scenario above looks insufficient to get Hopkins in.
On a positive note, the selection committee doesn't look at scores, and the three teams that have beaten Hopkins are all doing well, and might not be bad losses.

Except with UVa on the schedule it would be 6-8, and an auto no-bid.

[CU77]

11- not sure if you were trying to make the point that JHU should be wary of moving on from Petro to minimize the risk of losing current players or recruits, but I find that a poor reason for keeping a coach around.

The vast majority of recruits choose the program, not the coach. How many players/recruits left UVa when Starsia was dismissed? And how many Brown players followed Tiffany to UVa?

[jhu08]

I think Epstein is a competitor, he will never win one at Hopkins, he will be doomed to .500 seasons. Gray did not stay at Boston U, he saw the writing on the wall.

Yeah, not winning is totally why Gray left BU.

[wgdsr]

There are 8 At-Large spots in the Tourney. With the seasons that Yale, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell are having (all 4 in top 10), it is VERY likely they get 3 of the At-Large births. The ACC sitting at a combined 19 and 4 record ( with all 4 in the top 10 and Duke, notorious for late season charges at #14) will probably get 5, but almost certainly will get 4 At-Large bids. Army and Loyola are likely which is 1 more At-Large. The loser of Penn St and UMD will almost certainly get in. That's either 9 or 10 squads dividing up 8 slots.

Which 2 or 3 of those teams does a 7 and 7 Hopkins team whose best wins are against Towson, Mt St Mary's, Navy, Delaware, Michigan, Rutgers, and one of OSU/UMD beat out for an At-Large bid?????
A loss to a #1 Syracuse team means that its the B1G AQ or go home. At 1 and 4 and not even in the Top 25, which win in the next 5 games against teams that are also not in the Top 25 even puts them into the top 20?

we are 4 or 5 games in. no telling where the top ivies, b1g, and acc teams will fall. and patriot. at this point, it looks like just too many strong teams... but again, it's early. it was february 2 days ago. there are 2 months left. this is not a testimonial to hopkins' chances, but to anyone's.

[wgdsr]

Begging to think that Epstein has more than just an MCL sprain. His lack of forward burst is apparent.

Doubt it. Even a low-grade MCL sprain can be very painful and take months to fully recover. A grade 2 or 3 sprain would completely explain the lack of burst—there doesn't need to be anything else going on. Plus the bulky brace on his leg doesn't exactly make it easier to run. Doctors cleared him to play. That would not be the case if there was more significant damage (especially to the ACL).

Everything I know about Epstein is that he's a true competitor (soph captain, weight room junkie, playing hurt), but has there been any thought of him redshirting? He probably wants to play for his team and coach, but I hate to think he will spend 1 of his 4 seasons on one leg. Love his game and competitiveness so if he keeps playing, I hope he gets right.

He's already played in three games—one more would put him over the 30% threshold of total games (assuming no postseason contests) and disqualify him from a medical redshirt. Even if he didn't play another game this season I still don't think the NCAA would grant him a waiver. It's not like he got injured and then was forced to miss the remainder of the season. They've already tried putting him back in the lineup. That doesn't really help the argument. "He got hurt but we still played him for several games and THEN decided we don't want him to play anymore." Not sure that reasoning will hold up in the Court of NCAA Redshirts, your honor.

If he sat before the SU game and didn't play the rest of the year, it can be easily argued that he reaggrevated the injury or he didn't feel comfortable or other stability issues cropped up. Happens all the time. NCAA isn't that strict on 5th years that they would get into the weeds and would question a guy that tried to play and then sat.

Saying that I doubt he does that. He seems like a guy that wants to play no matter what.

hopkins' denominator for games is 2 spring scrimmages, 13 regular season games (assuming none get cancelled for noro or coronavirus) plus 1 b1g tourney game, if they are in it. nc$$ tourn games don't count. they all have to be in the front 50% of the season. you can go over 30% in your last game.
that means whether it's 15 or 16 scrimmages/games, he can play in 5 contests and still med redshirt, if they're all in the front half. he would also have to have detailed, documented evidence that he was unable to finish the season.

[DocBarrister]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

I think Epstein is a competitor, he will never win one at Hopkins, he will be doomed to .500 seasons. Gray did not stay at Boston U, he saw the writing on the wall.

And i would say the dumbest posts are ones prior to the season thinking that you could compete or this was the year you would be at final four weekend. Not happening. Or better yet, the chant 44 and we want more, come on guys, the lacrosse world has changed since the last time you won. There are more teams that compete, when you won there where just a handful of teams that competed year in and year out for the national championship.

Hopkins hasn’t even played a game in March yet. Give it a rest.

There’s talent on this team. Epstein seems to be improving. Maybe there will be a change in goal. I have had my complaints about the coaching staff, just like everyone else. But this staff has won a national championship together.

If the season goes South like all the doomsayers are predicting, fine ... let’s talk about changes then. Right now, most of the season lies ahead.

Not giving up on this team yet.

DocBarrister

[Mr3Putt]

If i am a betting man, i would bet Epstein in the transfer portal in June

I'll take that bet. Name your price.

There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread. This may be the dumbest. Congrats on the accomplishment.

I think Epstein is a competitor, he will never win one at Hopkins, he will be doomed to .500 seasons. Gray did not stay at Boston U, he saw the writing on the wall.

And i would say the dumbest posts are ones prior to the season thinking that you could compete or this was the year you would be at final four weekend. Not happening. Or better yet, the chant 44 and we want more, come on guys, the lacrosse world has changed since the last time you won. There are more teams that compete, when you won there where just a handful of teams that competed year in and year out for the national championship.

Your way off base about Gray. He left for other reasons that I’m not getting into. It was not lacrosse related.