LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Back in 2010, Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to ensure that Muslim darkie moves back to Kenya, quickly: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

A swing and a miss, Mitch.

Good ole Mitch Mac, in a Lazarushian attempt to show 'em ya' can't keep a xxxx down, is gwine' nooklarize' the approval process for seating federal judges.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... es-1205722

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point re. these last 2 B-737 MAX-8 accidents. He's probably echoing the sentiments of his corporate pilots who flew him around

You may recall the numerous accidents we discussed in the LP Aviation thread. So many modern accidents are the result of overdependence on automated flight control systems, to the extent that the pilot now spends so much time "out of the loop" as a systems manager, rather than processing the indications he sees on his "stream gages", then manually manipulating the controls & a maintaing a "feel" for what the airplane is doing. Now, when something goes wrong & he must take control, he's not instantly "in the loop". at time when split second actions are required.

It's critical that US airlines still require a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time for new pilots, while many international airlines only require 200 hrs. For most pilots, those early hours are acquired flight instructing or piloting less sophisticated airplanes, where they're still flying the airplane, rather than monitoring the flight management system. Thanks to our dependence on military pilots & school of hard knocks general aviation pilots, we're still producing enough potential Sully's. Not all international airlines are.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pmTrump's making a valid point re. these last 2 B-737 MAX-8 accidents. He's probably echoing the sentiments of his corporate pilots who flew him around

You may recall the numerous accidents we discussed in the LP Aviation thread. So many modern accidents are the result of overdependence on automated flight control systems, to the extent that the pilot now spends so much time "out of the loop" as a systems manager, rather than processing the indications he sees on his "stream gages", then manually manipulating the controls & a maintaing a "feel" for what the airplane is doing. Now, when something goes wrong & he must take control, he's not instantly "in the loop". at time when split second actions are required.

It's critical that US airlines still require a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time for new pilots, while many international airlines only require 200 hrs. For most pilots, those early hours are acquired flight instructing or piloting less sophisticated airplanes, where they're still flying the airplane, rather than monitoring the flight management system. Thanks to our dependence on military pilots & school of hard knocks general aviation pilots, we're still producing enough potential Sully's. Not all international airlines are.

What's the accident rate of these modern systems vs. "older and simpler" ones.

And as you say, are these international pilots just less trained on these modern systems? Wouldn't they be less trained on the "older and simpler" ones too?

holmes435 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:45 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pmTrump's making a valid point re. these last 2 B-737 MAX-8 accidents. He's probably echoing the sentiments of his corporate pilots who flew him around

You may recall the numerous accidents we discussed in the LP Aviation thread. So many modern accidents are the result of overdependence on automated flight control systems, to the extent that the pilot now spends so much time "out of the loop" as a systems manager, rather than processing the indications he sees on his "stream gages", then manually manipulating the controls & a maintaing a "feel" for what the airplane is doing. Now, when something goes wrong & he must take control, he's not instantly "in the loop". at time when split second actions are required.

It's critical that US airlines still require a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time for new pilots, while many international airlines only require 200 hrs. For most pilots, those early hours are acquired flight instructing or piloting less sophisticated airplanes, where they're still flying the airplane, rather than monitoring the flight management system. Thanks to our dependence on military pilots & school of hard knocks general aviation pilots, we're still producing enough potential Sully's. Not all international airlines are.

What's the accident rate of these modern systems vs. "older and simpler" ones.

And as you say, are these international pilots just less trained on these modern systems? Wouldn't they be less trained on the "older and simpler" ones too?

No doubt we are safer overall with the newer aircraft, but the goal is an accident rate of zero. We're now seeing pilot error accidents of a different nature. Instead of pilot task saturation in older, less sophisticated aircraft, we're now seeing accidents due to loss of situational awareness when "out of the loop" in newer automated aircraft. The goal is to strike a happy medium -- retain the benefits of the newer systems, while developing procedures & training which keep the pilot sufficiently "in the loop". Much of the benefit of the newer aircraft is the reduction in pilot workload, but than can lead to lack of attention & a degradation of situational awareness.

It's not just training, it's experience. There's a difference. The experience gained in accumulating 1500 hrs in less sophisticated aircraft builds basic pilot skills that a 200 hr pilot does not yet possess.

Just watched Rachel Maddow's politicized analysis of this accident. It was like watching a chimpanzee play with a hand grenade.

Here's an analysis I trust from a high time airline Captain & accident investigator we often see on TV. I instructed his son, who went on to be an airline pilot, for his Private Pilot license then Instrument rating.

Sounds this morning like US pilots want this situation fixed now.

Trinity wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:02 am Sounds this morning like US pilots want this situation fixed now.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... afety-flaw

Plus I learned this morning on MSNBCs First Look that Boeing has been working on a fix involving relying on multiple sensors and rewriting the software. Was supposed to be _done_ at end of January, but guess what government shutdown has now moved the rollout to end of April...

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:37 am

holmes435 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:45 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pmTrump's making a valid point re. these last 2 B-737 MAX-8 accidents. He's probably echoing the sentiments of his corporate pilots who flew him around

You may recall the numerous accidents we discussed in the LP Aviation thread. So many modern accidents are the result of overdependence on automated flight control systems, to the extent that the pilot now spends so much time "out of the loop" as a systems manager, rather than processing the indications he sees on his "stream gages", then manually manipulating the controls & a maintaing a "feel" for what the airplane is doing. Now, when something goes wrong & he must take control, he's not instantly "in the loop". at time when split second actions are required.

It's critical that US airlines still require a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time for new pilots, while many international airlines only require 200 hrs. For most pilots, those early hours are acquired flight instructing or piloting less sophisticated airplanes, where they're still flying the airplane, rather than monitoring the flight management system. Thanks to our dependence on military pilots & school of hard knocks general aviation pilots, we're still producing enough potential Sully's. Not all international airlines are.

What's the accident rate of these modern systems vs. "older and simpler" ones.

And as you say, are these international pilots just less trained on these modern systems? Wouldn't they be less trained on the "older and simpler" ones too?

No doubt we are safer overall with the newer aircraft, but the goal is an accident rate of zero. We're now seeing pilot error accidents of a different nature. Instead of pilot task saturation in older, less sophisticated aircraft, we're now seeing accidents due to loss of situational awareness when "out of the loop" in newer automated aircraft. The goal is to strike a happy medium -- retain the benefits of the newer systems, while developing procedures & training which keep the pilot sufficiently "in the loop". Much of the benefit of the newer aircraft is the reduction in pilot workload, but than can lead to lack of attention & a degradation of situational awareness.

It's not just training, it's experience. There's a difference. The experience gained in accumulating 1500 hrs in less sophisticated aircraft builds basic pilot skills that a 200 hr pilot does not yet possess.

Just watched Rachel Maddow's politicized analysis of this accident. It was like watching a chimpanzee play with a hand grenade.

Here's an analysis I trust from a high time airline Captain & accident investigator we often see on TV. I instructed his son, who went on to be an airline pilot, for his Private Pilot license then Instrument rating.

A talking head suggested one of the issues is getting enough simulator time, which is very expensive. Sounds like some of that training has been cut to a fraction of what is recommended to save money.....he also suggested that is not the case with US pilots.

Multiple sources have been reporting for the past 18 hours that US pilots have been complaining about the problem that took down the Lion Air plane since the release of the Max 8. Boeing and the responsible Federal agencies are putting lipstick on the pig.

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point.

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

That's the simplistic response that Trump's critics are making.

What Trump should have said :
Modern cockpit systems have increased safety & reduced pilot workload. However, they pose different challenges for pilots who are now less "in the loop" than they used to be, sometimes causing reduced situational awareness, which can be a factor when pilots must respond to a malfunction which requires immediare pilot action.

This is a topic of much discussion among pilots who have experienced the development of cockpit systems over the past half century, including yours truely. I posted links to articles discussing this challenge in LP Aviation thread discussions, when this was a factor in accidents in the news.

Trump couldn't read that if it was on a teleprompter.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:10 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point.

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

That's the simplistic response that Trump's critics are making.

What Trump should have said :
Modern cockpit systems have increased safety & reduced pilot workload. However, they pose different challenges for pilots who are now less "in the loop" than they used to be, sometimes causing reduced situational awareness, which can be a factor when pilots must respond to a malfunction which requires immediare pilot action.

This is a topic of much discussion among pilots who have experienced the development of cockpit systems over the past half century, including yours truely. I posted links to articles discussing this challenge in LP Aviation thread discussions, when this was a factor in accidents in the news.

Trump is accurate. I am close friends with two pilots that still fly today, retired Air Force that flew our top staff, now private pilots for major business owners. Gulfstream type aircraft. They say they can practically hit a button that says "take me there" then sit back and read a display. The pilots are not engaged like they were years ago. When they go away for training on software updates or a new plane....it is primarily training on how to allow the plane to make the correct decisions for you...because it is smarter than you are. Ha!

youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:22 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:10 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point.

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

That's the simplistic response that Trump's critics are making.

What Trump should have said :
Modern cockpit systems have increased safety & reduced pilot workload. However, they pose different challenges for pilots who are now less "in the loop" than they used to be, sometimes causing reduced situational awareness, which can be a factor when pilots must respond to a malfunction which requires immediare pilot action.

This is a topic of much discussion among pilots who have experienced the development of cockpit systems over the past half century, including yours truely. I posted links to articles discussing this challenge in LP Aviation thread discussions, when this was a factor in accidents in the news.

Trump is accurate. I am close friends with two pilots that still fly today, retired Air Force that flew our top staff, now private pilots for major business owners. Gulfstream type aircraft. They say they can practically hit a button that says "take me there" then sit back and read a display. The pilots are not engaged like they were years ago. When they go away for training on software updates or a new plane....it is primarily training on how to allow the plane to make the correct decisions for you...because it is smarter than you are. Ha!

So you are both anti-technology and scientific advancements, I get that. Time to get out of the way and let the next future generation lead the USA.

And you can take your faux MAGA bs with you.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:10 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point.

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

That's the simplistic response that Trump's critics are making.

What Trump should have said :
Modern cockpit systems have increased safety & reduced pilot workload. However, they pose different challenges for pilots who are now less "in the loop" than they used to be, sometimes causing reduced situational awareness, which can be a factor when pilots must respond to a malfunction which requires immediare pilot action.

This is a topic of much discussion among pilots who have experienced the development of cockpit systems over the past half century, including yours truely. I posted links to articles discussing this challenge in LP Aviation thread discussions, when this was a factor in accidents in the news.

When is Huckabee leaving her posts?

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

There is no bottom

Trump just now announcing a full grounding of 737 max 8s and 9s. Planes currently in air to finish current flight and then be grounded.

Trump announcing US will ground all Max 8s.

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:25 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:22 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:10 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am I see that the r's are about to add Ludite policies to their platform for 2020...

Space Force funding to buy Chinese bottle rockets?

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

How is this possibly MAGA?

Trump's making a valid point.

So you are telling me that all pilots want to go back to wooden bi-planes and NASA wants no computers???

That's the simplistic response that Trump's critics are making.

What Trump should have said :
Modern cockpit systems have increased safety & reduced pilot workload. However, they pose different challenges for pilots who are now less "in the loop" than they used to be, sometimes causing reduced situational awareness, which can be a factor when pilots must respond to a malfunction which requires immediare pilot action.

This is a topic of much discussion among pilots who have experienced the development of cockpit systems over the past half century, including yours truely. I posted links to articles discussing this challenge in LP Aviation thread discussions, when this was a factor in accidents in the news.

Trump is accurate. I am close friends with two pilots that still fly today, retired Air Force that flew our top staff, now private pilots for major business owners. Gulfstream type aircraft. They say they can practically hit a button that says "take me there" then sit back and read a display. The pilots are not engaged like they were years ago. When they go away for training on software updates or a new plane....it is primarily training on how to allow the plane to make the correct decisions for you...because it is smarter than you are. Ha!

So you are both anti-technology and scientific advancements, I get that. Time to get out of the way and let the next future generation lead the USA.

And you can take your faux MAGA bs with you.

WOW - you must work for people that are writing the code on these planes. Of course I am not anti-technology. Using your logic....you must be anti-people, if you want planes to completely fly themselves.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:34 pm Trump announcing US will ground all Max 8s.

When will his spokesperson make an announcement here?

In the not real distant future planes will fly themselves. Humans are a temporary backup system and are being used properly now. Pilots are becoming obsolete, just like many other high wage workers. Automation will replace nearly everyone. Apart from tourism, recreation, don't understand why we need as many people in the air as we have now. Telecom can and will replace nearly all business travel. Much cheaper.