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Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:56 pm
by DocBarrister
jhu72 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:58 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:22 pm
jhu72 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:10 pm DeSantis trying to hide the truth.
hmmm, this actually would be restriction by the government of free speech (though not Congress, so not First Amendment)...right?

It's gross.
... it should become a big story. Academics having their speech limited by politicians.

Tell me DeathSantis isn't a fascist. Forming a 200 man praetorian guard.
If I recall, the Praetorian Guard executed a Roman Emperor (Pertinax) and then sold the Empire to the highest bidder.

These state militias do exist in other states, including California, but those other states do not have a fascist piece of trash like DeathSantis as governor.

DocBarrister

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:32 pm
by PizzaSnake
Adipose tissue is risky.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/heal ... esity.html

“ Now researchers have found that the coronavirus infects both fat cells and certain immune cells within body fat, prompting a damaging defensive response in the body.”

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:07 pm
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:56 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:20 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:11 pm Senate expected to vote to overturn Biden vaccine mandate for businesses as soon as Wednesday:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/08/politics ... index.html
Yup, but no chance in House. Just a show in Senate.

Frankly, I think the mandates would be far more effective if very specific to situations that are more discretionary and directly regulated, eg air and rail travel.
Not sure it's "just a show."

Using the standard of party crossover (like Romney with impeachment) it's a "bipartisan" effort. 2 Democrats flipped. They recognize the constitutional overstep. The Republicans only need what, 5-6 constitution or jobs-minded democrats for it to pass the house?

Then make Biden veto it to see if he really believes he's constitutionally right to mandate vaccines.
:lol: well, that's possible, though your rationale of "constitutional" is completely bogus.

But certainly there's a big segment of American that doesn't like the mandates and the way we do elections their votes do matter more than the majority, so who knows, it's possible they'll vote that way....meanwhile, mandates have worked pretty darn well.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:05 pm
by jhu72

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:16 pm
by PizzaSnake
Yank their licenses.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:48 pm
by ggait
We've gone over this...every State---all 50----have vaccine mandates on the books, and have since the 1970's.
At the state level, vaccine mandates in the USA go back to 1809. And the definitive SCOTUS precedent upholding such state mandates issued in 1905. All 50 states today mandate vaccines for kids attending public school.

The jurisdiction for vax mandates at the federal level is more complex. It likely exists to a great degree. But it has never really been needed or tested.

Since this is really the first vax that states have actively opposed in significant numbers. Until Covid, the states (including the red MB states) were the pushing for mandates and vaccines.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am
by tech37
The click-bait heading in your link is disinformation. Keep on lyin' 72 :roll:

It's a 1st Amendment issue genius, and push back against actual fascism. Something you and others on here love to dubiously throw around with your bogus sense of certainty.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:59 am
by youthathletics
Senate votes to repeal Biden federal vaccine mandate for businesses
Even if the House approves as well, the measure faces a Biden veto

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/se ... businesses

Likely DOA, just sharing.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:09 am
by kramerica.inc
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:07 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:56 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:20 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:11 pm Senate expected to vote to overturn Biden vaccine mandate for businesses as soon as Wednesday:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/08/politics ... index.html
Yup, but no chance in House. Just a show in Senate.

Frankly, I think the mandates would be far more effective if very specific to situations that are more discretionary and directly regulated, eg air and rail travel.
Not sure it's "just a show."

Using the standard of party crossover (like Romney with impeachment) it's a "bipartisan" effort. 2 Democrats flipped. They recognize the constitutional overstep. The Republicans only need what, 5-6 constitution or jobs-minded democrats for it to pass the house?

Then make Biden veto it to see if he really believes he's constitutionally right to mandate vaccines.
:lol: well, that's possible, though your rationale of "constitutional" is completely bogus.

But certainly there's a big segment of American that doesn't like the mandates and the way we do elections their votes do matter more than the majority, so who knows, it's possible they'll vote that way....meanwhile, mandates have worked pretty darn well.
Agree, if it's so, the people will ultimately vote their displeasure.

My thoughts are that the effectiveness of the mandate is good, but it appears Biden may have overstepped here. The courts will let us know and this may end up at SCOTUS. Federal vaccine mandates are tough to mandate. State, much easier. How they institute it matters. Legality matters. Constitutional rights matter. It's an important issue aside from the health aspect.

IMO, If Biden wanted to do it so badly he should have expended some political will and instituted it via congress and employed a reward-based system, not penalty-driven mandate. You'd see businesses lining up to implement vaccine policies (the right way) in droves.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:28 am
by jhu72
tech37 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am
The click-bait heading in your link is disinformation. Keep on lyin' 72 :roll:

It's a 1st Amendment issue genius, and push back against actual fascism. Something you and others on here love to dubiously throw around with your bogus sense of certainty.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Push back against fascism. Good one dumb ass.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:31 am
by jhu72
youthathletics wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:59 am Senate votes to repeal Biden federal vaccine mandate for businesses
Even if the House approves as well, the measure faces a Biden veto

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/se ... businesses

Likely DOA, just sharing.
Pelosi will not bring up in the house. It will require republicans to bring it to the floor and that a majority vote. Unlikely to get a single dem vote to even bring it to the floor, let alone vote to repeal the mandate.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:38 am
by jhu72
A little COVID humor:


Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:30 am
by MDlaxfan76
tech37 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am
The click-bait heading in your link is disinformation. Keep on lyin' 72 :roll:

It's a 1st Amendment issue genius, and push back against actual fascism. Something you and others on here love to dubiously throw around with your bogus sense of certainty.
Your response intrigued me, tech, so I clicked through to see what was happening.

Here's what I read, a medical board instituted a policy that said that spreading medical misinformation by a doctor violates their Hippocratic oath to "first do no harm" and are subject to losing their license to practice. When doctors do so, knowingly, in any other aspect of their medical practices they are indeed subject to such. And we certainly want this to be the case.

Such is the regular regulation of the medical profession by their peers.

And yet, you see a First Amendment issue, which clearly means you need to re-read the First Amendment on "free speech".

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


First, Congress has not made a law. Second, SCOTUS has repeatedly found various regulations of speech by other government entities, eg the states, as well as private editorial of speech, to not be violations of the U.S. Constitution.

So, not First Amendment.

For instance, a person is free to libel or slander another person, but they are liable for damages if successfully sued.

A person who falsely cried fire in a theater may face criminal prosecution for endangering others.

But back to the point of licensing. We should not want doctors to provide counsel or perform operations in ways which their peers know cause harm, whether the over prescription of opioids, the use of devices that are dirty, or telling a patient in danger of death or pain for whom there is a known helpful procedure or medicine to not undertake that procedure or medicine and to instead simply 'pray it away' or 'go run a marathon' or "eat some dirt" or anything else not accepted as effective medical practice. The doctor owes a duty to provide the patient with the best available care.

But note, a person who happens to be a doctor may decide they wish to "speak" medical advice that is known by their peers to be false or misleading. They are "free" to do so, but if they do, they're subject to loss of their license as a doctor.

A doctor always has a choice as to whether he or she wishes to maintain their Hippocratic oath. They can opt out of practice if they so wish.

And here we have a powerful legislator threatening a state medical licensing board with dissolution simply because they published this policy on their website. The legislator doesn't want the public know that this is the licensing board's policy.

And you're calling the licensing board "fascist". :roll:

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:35 am
by Farfromgeneva
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:30 am
tech37 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am
The click-bait heading in your link is disinformation. Keep on lyin' 72 :roll:

It's a 1st Amendment issue genius, and push back against actual fascism. Something you and others on here love to dubiously throw around with your bogus sense of certainty.
Your response intrigued me, tech, so I clicked through to see what was happening.

Here's what I read, a medical board instituted a policy that said that spreading medical misinformation by a doctor violates their Hippocratic oath to "first do no harm" and are subject to losing their license to practice. When doctors do so, knowingly, in any other aspect of their medical practices they are indeed subject to such. And we certainly want this to be the case.

Such is the regular regulation of the medical profession by their peers.

And yet, you see a First Amendment issue, which clearly means you need to re-read the First Amendment on "free speech".

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


First, Congress has not made a law. Second, SCOTUS has repeatedly found various regulations of speech by other government entities, eg the states, as well as private editorial of speech, to not be violations of the U.S. Constitution.

So, not First Amendment.

For instance, a person is free to libel or slander another person, but they are liable for damages if successfully sued.

A person who falsely cried fire in a theater may face criminal prosecution for endangering others.

But back to the point of licensing. We should not want doctors to provide counsel or perform operations in ways which their peers know cause harm, whether the over prescription of opioids, the use of devices that are dirty, or telling a patient in danger of death or pain for whom there is a known helpful procedure or medicine to not undertake that procedure or medicine and to instead simply 'pray it away' or 'go run a marathon' or "eat some dirt" or anything else not accepted as effective medical practice. The doctor owes a duty to provide the patient with the best available care.

But note, a person who happens to be a doctor may decide they wish to "speak" medical advice that is known by their peers to be false or misleading. They are "free" to do so, but if they do, they're subject to loss of their license as a doctor.

A doctor always has a choice as to whether he or she wishes to maintain their Hippocratic oath. They can opt out of practice if they so wish.

And here we have a powerful legislator threatening a state medical licensing board with dissolution simply because they published this policy on their website. The legislator doesn't want the public know that this is the licensing board's policy.

And you're calling the licensing board "fascist". :roll:
Someone appears headed towards wearing a Buffalo skin and horns.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:04 am
by youthathletics
jhu72 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:31 am
youthathletics wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:59 am Senate votes to repeal Biden federal vaccine mandate for businesses
Even if the House approves as well, the measure faces a Biden veto

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/se ... businesses

Likely DOA, just sharing.
Pelosi will not bring up in the house. It will require republicans to bring it to the floor and that a majority vote. Unlikely to get a single dem vote to even bring it to the floor, let alone vote to repeal the mandate.
Not necessarily true: https://twitter.com/SenatorTester/statu ... 61223?s=20

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:34 am
by jhu72
youthathletics wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:04 am
jhu72 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:31 am
youthathletics wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:59 am Senate votes to repeal Biden federal vaccine mandate for businesses
Even if the House approves as well, the measure faces a Biden veto

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/se ... businesses

Likely DOA, just sharing.
Pelosi will not bring up in the house. It will require republicans to bring it to the floor and that a majority vote. Unlikely to get a single dem vote to even bring it to the floor, let alone vote to repeal the mandate.
Not necessarily true: https://twitter.com/SenatorTester/statu ... 61223?s=20
... don't get your point. Tester is in the Senate. Perhaps the lone Montana representative will vote to bring it to the floor. To be seen.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:44 am
by Matnum PI
Twitter: Newsweek @Newsweek
Listerine has explicitly stated that no research data proves that its mouthwash prevents or treats COVID-19.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:03 pm
by CU88
Matnum PI wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:44 am Twitter: Newsweek @Newsweek
Listerine has explicitly stated that no research data proves that its mouthwash prevents or treats COVID-19.
I had to see why they acted and am not surprised to find this bs from a r.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... -treatment


Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) on Wednesday suggested that standard mouthwash could treat COVID-19, and criticized federal agencies for telling people to "do nothing."

"Standard gargle, mouthwash, has been proven to kill the coronavirus," Johnson said, according to The Washington Post. "If you get it, you may reduce viral replication. Why not try all these things?"

"It just boggles my mind that the NIH continues to tell people to do nothing," he added of the National Institutes of Health, in a recording posted online by Heartland Signal.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:45 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Either dumber than a box of rocks or gives less than zero f**ks. I can’t tell which.

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:48 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:18 am
The click-bait heading in your link is disinformation. Keep on lyin' 72 :roll:

It's a 1st Amendment issue genius, and push back against actual fascism. Something you and others on here love to dubiously throw around with your bogus sense of certainty.
1st Amendment? What the heck kind of backwards logic is this? Understand that if you believe that the 1st Amendment comes first, that means you don't believe in needing a medical license to practice in a State. You get that, right? Because you can't stifle someone's "1st Amendment right" to give medical advice if the 1st Amendment trumps other considerations.