Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 12:07 pm
Do you see any protests anywhere that stands up to Hamas? Or the holding of hostages? Outside of counter protests, I'm unaware of any. Correct me if I'm wrong.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:26 amHamas killing 1,200 innocent people is awful. Not sure anyone has ignored it.a fan wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:46 pmI think you're confusing me with another poster.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:27 pm\What I don't understand is your vitriol and obduracy regarding the obvious crimes of the IDF and the Israeli government. Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention and the duties the Israelis have to non-combatants? You know, no killing them or starving them or denying medical care. Little things like that.
The ONLY vitriol I have is to three groups: Hamas. The far right in Israel, including Bibi, doing things like adding settlements and hammering defenseless civilians knowing full well what that does to prospects of peace. And the blind pro-Palestian nutjobs who want the Jewish people out of the entire region.
As for annoyance? I'm annoyed at any person or group that refuses to acknowledge or mention the horrible things that "the other side" have done.
Things like railing at Israel for killing folks or starving and violating the Geneva Convention without owning up to the fact that Palestinians violated, and are continuing to violate the living sh(t out of the Geneva Convention by slaughtering 1200 civilians and children, and holding hundreds hostage, and starving and torturing and raping and killing hostages along the way.
Both sides are prolonging this mess for WAY the F longer than needed.
Everyone is demanding that Israel stop with the violence, and I agree with that.
But I haven't seen anyone demonstrating to demand that Hamas release the 130 hostages they still hold, or to surrender power to the Palestinian people. If you're Jewish...what message does that send? I've said it before: I understand on a logical level why the Israelis have stopped listening to anyone. I don't agree with their choices, but we're basically telling them that their people don't matter, and THEY are the SOLE problem here.
Pretty easy to argue that they are looking for hostages. That said, I believe what Israel is doing is disproportional, and over the top, and is exactly what Hamas wanted.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:26 am In most conflicts there is a concept of proportionality. I am not sure if the response has exceeded what is considered proportional.
Hamas is smart enough to understand that their days in the headlines are numbered. Which tells me that they don't REALLY care about any of this....it's about fleecing people of money and power, and that's it.
You're not wrong. But the obvious problem here is: if Hamas doesn't rep Palestine.....who does?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:26 am Also, Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. It’s a terrorist organization that cares no more about Palestinians than it does Jews unless they are sympathetic to their ideology. No “Palestinian” under the age of 35 voted for Hamas to “represent them” and those that did only accounted for 44% of the vote.
Yes, but this leaves out the "why". South Africa behaved the way they did because they're a bunch of racist wankers.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:26 am Many people protesting are doing so because Israel pretty much meets the definition of an Apartheid State. A good friend of mine does a lot of work with Save The Children and first got involved about 10 years ago when he started taking trips to the region. He said for years he never realized how bad it was and it reminded him of South Africa.
Israel behaves this way because of non-stop attacks and terrorism. What would have happened if Palestinians behaved the same way every country in the world does after losing a war over territory? Borders and lands have exchanged hands since before the written word showed up. Yet this is the only place on Earth where the reaction to losing a war, is to wage a terrorist war for what's closing in on 100 years.
The saddest part of this whole thing is that had the Palestinians chosen peace decades ago? There wouldn't be one single fence, and zero restricted movement, and Muslims would have a far bigger voice in Israeli government (they already have Judges), and they've be free to go and live anywhere they wanted.
Instead? We get this mess.
Picture what this would look like if the Native Inhabitants of Canada, America, and Australia had done what Palestinians have done for the last several decades. How do you suppose we'd react? Or heck, picture any group on Earth that's po'ed about redrawn borders from just WWII....waging a terrorist war for 70 years because they're mad that they "lost their country".
As Americans, we already relegate the folks we conquered to sh9tty piece of land throughout America. We hardly have the high ground here.
That's Israel. What about everywhere else? And what message does that send?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:26 am Many people in Israel are protesting. I am pretty sure they are not ignoring the 1,200 Israeli citizens slaughtered.