Johns Hopkins 2021

[jhu06]

Thanks MD and wg for the clarifications - I was sort of headed in the right direction. I would imagine there needs to be some controls on this to ensure need (or other aid) isn't being handed out to circumvent the scholarship limit. And I would think this would also refute the notion that "taps" have been opened post Petro since that would seem to be a violation unless the taps have been opened for all students (Bloomberg's philanthropy may make this so) AND very few of the 21s and certainly the 22s have even applied much less been accepted and can discuss with Hopkins need based awards.

Now that Hopkins sideline demeanor, hopkins early recruiting, are gone, I'm all for Hopkins illicitly funding players.

[MDlaxfan76]

re financial aid, I think wgdsr's posts are quite accurate and helpful.

I don't think there has been a change in any of this because of the coaching swap out, just that the Bloomberg money is kicking into gear. That was the dramatic change re financial aid, not how the Admin feels about the coaches. Timing is coincidental.

It's indeed complicated, especially with all the uncertainty about who will actually be on rosters this year and next, however over the long haul Hopkins will have a significant advantage versus most peers.

They will have Ivy-level need based financial aid for those who do need significant support PLUS 12.6 for those with relatively little need. They can't mix, but what this means is that far more total $ can be supporting this group.

However, I think that the coaches can't commit the need-based dollars. That needs to come through the Financial Aid office just like the Ivy process. If I'm correct on this part and Hopkins does it like the Ivies, those aid decisions happen after Admissions make a decision. The Coach can point an applicant family at an aid calculator, but he needs to tell the family he can't make the call himself. They need to discuss it with the Aid office, and they typically will not make a firm offer until after Admissions has made their decision.

Over time, confidence will build about how those decisions play out, ala very generously in the Ivies, but the family doesn't have 100% assurance until later.

Hopkins isn't bound by the Ivy process which is based on mutual agreement and commitments within that league, but I suspect that Hopkins will err to this sort of "need-blind" process to maintain the 12.6 scholarships and to keep their faculty satisfied.

There's already some tension about the academic readiness of the men's lax recruits versus the rest of the athletes, and even more tension relative to the overall student body. The gap is much more significant today than it is at Ivies.

I'd think that might tighten some over the next decade. But perhaps not.
I'd think that the Bloomberg money will help.

The slaps at the MIAA recruits remain silly, whether referring to Quint's biases or reflecting someone else's. Way, way too many players out of the MIAA have been top flight AA college players, at every position, over the past decade for anyone to be pooh poohing the MIAA is general...we've been through this way too many times.

At Hopkins, very highly touted recruits from all over the country did not have college careers that met the pre arrival hype. A few have, many haven't. That's simply factual. Unrelated to any league in specific.

That's recruiting and it's development and team culture.
And it's the hype machine, especially the excess exuberance during the Early Recruiting mess.

True, but maybe a more relevant comparison would be JHU Lax to Ivy Football. As you know, Lax is to Hopkins as Football is to most of the Ivies. Even if Cornell lax fans argue that they are an exception to the rule, they also support a first-class Ice Hockey team.

I'm not sure I follow. Certainly Hopkins has traditionally considered men's lax very differently than its DIII sports, huge legacy. Really no comparison to any other program/school in the country IMO.

I don't think the Ivies, even in my era of late '70's when stadiums were frequently packed, would be comparable in comparing football as equivalently important as lacrosse has been for Hopkins. Perhaps if you go further back...

However, are you suggesting that the Ivy football teams have AI levels, and gaps from the rest of the student bodies, akin to Hop men's lax?

You may not be aware of the academic #'s on those football teams. Pretty darn high. I had a chuckle today listening to the announcers talk about Miami QB Fitzgerald and his Wonderlic score of 48 in nine minutes...Kyle Juszczyk is a very smart cat as well...fullback!

My son had many friends on the Harvard football team, ice hockey team, lots of the athletes, men and women...he said there were only a handful of recruits in any given year on the football team that were really stretching the AI zone, most were very much equipped for the academics. And those few often met other criteria as well on attributes that made them attractive to the school, over achievement relative to socioeconomics etc. Not really a surprise as, at least since the early '70's when Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy, Ivy football doesn't attract nor seek many NFL destination oriented players...except those with a lot of academic horsepower.

Traditionally, the hockey teams do have some of the lower AI's of any of the Ivy teams, football, because so large a squad, has a full range, as do the lax teams...those men's sports are all helped out by the fencing team, the crew team, and pretty generally all the women's teams!

I hope no one will interpret anything I'm saying as being judgmental about what any school chooses to emphasize, nor hear any aspersions about athletes who are less academically oriented than the next. I happen to believe that sports can be tremendous educational and personal growth opportunities and student-athletes can often outperform in life, in leadership in various fields, those who score highest academic #'s. I'm all for a good mix.

I'm simply saying that Hopkins is definitely one of the very top academic schools in the nation, with a very strong international brand, and is, and will continue to be, attracting a more and more competitive student body from all over the world. I'd simply recommend that a coaching staff utilize that reality as much as they can rather than straining against it.

I don't know whether that will be the path taken by this staff, but it's certainly an opportunity.

Right now, though, I'm just hoping kids get to play in 2021!
Beat COVID. Terps come next.

[Sagittarius A*]

Certainly not my area of expertise but my understanding is that if you receive D1 athletic scholarship money you are pretty much done and the institution can't disguise aid in other forms. You might be OK if the lacrosse player qualifies for a brain dead academic package that every student who qualifies then receives it - i.e. if Hopkins gave money to every student with some level of SATs or some such thing but otherwise you can't give Johnny Lax a 25% athletic scholarship and then say oh - because of x we now have additional funds to give and we're giving some to him because his family needs it. All that money has to count against the 12.6. It's the curse of not being football or basketball. What you could do is abandon the scholarships - say we are now the Ivy League model - and just let the dice roll on what the need-o- meter says for each recruit.

Not criticizing the current staff in any way - merely trying to correlate this supposed "opening of the taps". While many families in lacrosse are very fortunate in terms of finances, money is still money and Hopkins is still a great school with some remaining cache in lacrosse. If somehow all this were true and Hopkins was offering some increased aid level - I think you would see increased interest. Of course - it does seem Milliman realizes he needs smaller classes to shrink the roster.

If that's the case, then just give out your 12 full rides and give everyone else need-based aid. One guy gets .6, not too shabby.

[flalax22]

No lacrosse talk here but a definite change in culture when the team is recognizing Indigenous Peoples Day on formerly Columbus Day. Never would have happened under the old staff IMHO.

[molo]

Good for them.

[MDlaxfan76]

+1,

However, do we really have a reason to suggest that the former staff would not have made this move at this time?

Unless there's a real basis for that view, let's not suggest otherwise. (or am I missing something???)

A lot of folks' views have moved considerably over this over the past few years, as they've learned more about the underlying issue. I wouldn't want to assume this would not have been the case of the former staff as well.

[jhu06]

I'm more interested in the building renamings and how far they go. I don't know maryland history well but I'm guessing next spring we'll see several thousand across the country. Wilson is a big part of the schools history for example. Some public hs yanked his name off the walls today.

[flalax22]

+1,

However, do we really have a reason to suggest that the former staff would not have made this move at this time?

Unless there's a real basis for that view, let's not suggest otherwise. (or am I missing something???)

A lot of folks' views have moved considerably over this over the past few years, as they've learned more about the underlying issue. I wouldn't want to assume this would not have been the case of the former staff as well.

Real basis? Only that it never happened before, but you’re certainly right that views evolve.

[HopFan16]

JHU has the benefit of being named after a renowned abolitionist, so it's not facing the same questions that some other schools are.

I don't think many—if any—buildings are named after particularly objectionable people. Namely, Gilman and Krieger are fine. Most of the buildings I can think of are named after scientists, philanthropists, or activists.

There is an effort to rename the undergrad fellowship that's currently named after Woodrow Wilson but I'm not sure what the latest update is on that. It's small potatoes compared to the pressure several Ivies are facing due to their deep ties to slave traders.

Re: Indigenous Peoples Day, more recognition of where lacrosse came from is not only morally necessary but also good for the game, IMO. Rabil has been vocal about this personally and through the PLL and I'm glad JHU as a program is as well.

[MDlaxfan76]

+1,

However, do we really have a reason to suggest that the former staff would not have made this move at this time?

Unless there's a real basis for that view, let's not suggest otherwise. (or am I missing something???)

A lot of folks' views have moved considerably over this over the past few years, as they've learned more about the underlying issue. I wouldn't want to assume this would not have been the case of the former staff as well.

Real basis? Only that it never happened before, but you’re certainly right that views evolve.

Fair.
I just think all sorts of folks are evolving their views, in many cases having never really given it much thought or without much comprehension of the history involved.

My 84 year old mom came home yesterday from a lunch with a close friend who had explained this history to her quite thoroughly...my mom had moved her views in just one day based upon that conversation.

[jhu06]

B1G is going to have a successful start to its football season 11 days from today. Rosemont the following monday is going to start ramping up planning for spring sports. And then the question will be put to Daniels.....

Are you going to cancel Hopkins lacrosse for the spring while your rivals play?

[44WeWantMore]

"Let me phone a friend."
Ring, ring.
"Hello, this is US News and World Reports. How may I direct your call?"

[wgdsr]

B1G is going to have a successful start to its football season 11 days from today. Rosemont the following monday is going to start ramping up planning for spring sports. And then the question will be put to Daniels.....

Are you going to cancel Hopkins lacrosse for the spring while your rivals play?

good luck selling you're actually in the b1g.

[Jaysjay88]

+1,

However, do we really have a reason to suggest that the former staff would not have made this move at this time?

Unless there's a real basis for that view, let's not suggest otherwise. (or am I missing something???)

A lot of folks' views have moved considerably over this over the past few years, as they've learned more about the underlying issue. I wouldn't want to assume this would not have been the case of the former staff as well.

Perhaps the former Coach's ethnic heritage is a clue?

[mocking jay]

Hopkins is in the B1G by contract. So it is a member as defined by its terms. The contract is favorable to Hopkins. Is the University apart from the lax team on indigenous people’s day? Mike doesn’t use his money to donate to the sports effort. The University has in recent years not funded improvements to the physical plant in sports even if they were fully funded from other sources snd has not followed through on plans to fund other physical improvements to the physical plants. There was for examples a plan to upgrade the swimming complex. Some people close to the program for a long time question whether Daniels can find the field or has any real interest in dealing with D1 sports.

[51percentcorn]

Perhaps the former Coach's ethnic heritage is a clue?

Are we really going there? I think I know how Tony and Paulie Walnuts feel about Columbus vs Indigenous Peoples Day but Petro? Who cares? It's a tiny tiny recruiting ploy. For all we know, any potential recruit from Long Island with a vowel at the end of his name got a private Happy Columbus Day e-mail. (that's a joke)

As far as Daniels and his input into on whether Hopkins participates in '21 season - it will be interesting to see what happens If there is a large resurgence of the virus in the winter - that's going to be a tough call. With virtually no TV revenue - it will be a much easier call to cut those sports for Spring '21 than football or basketball. You're noticing inch by inch - the stands at college football games are becoming more and more populated. "ol Einstein DeSantis in Florida is now allowing full capacity stadiums (though I guess university presidents are showing some restraint) but - 80,000 plus in Tallahassee, Gainesville - what could possibly go wrong?

[ABV 8.3%]

re financial aid, I think wgdsr's posts are quite accurate and helpful.

I don't think there has been a change in any of this because of the coaching swap out, just that the Bloomberg money is kicking into gear. That was the dramatic change re financial aid, not how the Admin feels about the coaches. Timing is coincidental.

It's indeed complicated, especially with all the uncertainty about who will actually be on rosters this year and next, however over the long haul Hopkins will have a significant advantage versus most peers.

They will have Ivy-level need based financial aid for those who do need significant support PLUS 12.6 for those with relatively little need. They can't mix, but what this means is that far more total $ can be supporting this group.

However, I think that the coaches can't commit the need-based dollars. That needs to come through the Financial Aid office just like the Ivy process. If I'm correct on this part and Hopkins does it like the Ivies, those aid decisions happen after Admissions make a decision. The Coach can point an applicant family at an aid calculator, but he needs to tell the family he can't make the call himself. They need to discuss it with the Aid office, and they typically will not make a firm offer until after Admissions has made their decision.

Over time, confidence will build about how those decisions play out, ala very generously in the Ivies, but the family doesn't have 100% assurance until later.

Hopkins isn't bound by the Ivy process which is based on mutual agreement and commitments within that league, but I suspect that Hopkins will err to this sort of "need-blind" process to maintain the 12.6 scholarships and to keep their faculty satisfied.

There's already some tension about the academic readiness of the men's lax recruits versus the rest of the athletes, and even more tension relative to the overall student body. The gap is much more significant today than it is at Ivies.

I'd think that might tighten some over the next decade. But perhaps not.
I'd think that the Bloomberg money will help.

The slaps at the MIAA recruits remain silly, whether referring to Quint's biases or reflecting someone else's. Way, way too many players out of the MIAA have been top flight AA college players, at every position, over the past decade for anyone to be pooh poohing the MIAA is general...we've been through this way too many times.

At Hopkins, very highly touted recruits from all over the country did not have college careers that met the pre arrival hype. A few have, many haven't. That's simply factual. Unrelated to any league in specific.

That's recruiting and it's development and team culture.
And it's the hype machine, especially the excess exuberance during the Early Recruiting mess.

True, but maybe a more relevant comparison would be JHU Lax to Ivy Football. As you know, Lax is to Hopkins as Football is to most of the Ivies. Even if Cornell lax fans argue that they are an exception to the rule, they also support a first-class Ice Hockey team.

I'm not sure I follow. Certainly Hopkins has traditionally considered men's lax very differently than its DIII sports, huge legacy. Really no comparison to any other program/school in the country IMO.

I don't think the Ivies, even in my era of late '70's when stadiums were frequently packed, would be comparable in comparing football as equivalently important as lacrosse has been for Hopkins. Perhaps if you go further back...

However, are you suggesting that the Ivy football teams have AI levels, and gaps from the rest of the student bodies, akin to Hop men's lax?

You may not be aware of the academic #'s on those football teams. Pretty darn high. I had a chuckle today listening to the announcers talk about Miami QB Fitzgerald and his Wonderlic score of 48 in nine minutes...Kyle Juszczyk is a very smart cat as well...fullback!

My son had many friends on the Harvard football team, ice hockey team, lots of the athletes, men and women...he said there were only a handful of recruits in any given year on the football team that were really stretching the AI zone, most were very much equipped for the academics. And those few often met other criteria as well on attributes that made them attractive to the school, over achievement relative to socioeconomics etc. Not really a surprise as, at least since the early '70's when Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy, Ivy football doesn't attract nor seek many NFL destination oriented players...except those with a lot of academic horsepower.

Traditionally, the hockey teams do have some of the lower AI's of any of the Ivy teams, football, because so large a squad, has a full range, as do the lax teams...those men's sports are all helped out by the fencing team, the crew team, and pretty generally all the women's teams!

I hope no one will interpret anything I'm saying as being judgmental about what any school chooses to emphasize, nor hear any aspersions about athletes who are less academically oriented than the next. I happen to believe that sports can be tremendous educational and personal growth opportunities and student-athletes can often outperform in life, in leadership in various fields, those who score highest academic #'s. I'm all for a good mix.

I'm simply saying that Hopkins is definitely one of the very top academic schools in the nation, with a very strong international brand, and is, and will continue to be, attracting a more and more competitive student body from all over the world. I'd simply recommend that a coaching staff utilize that reality as much as they can rather than straining against it.

I don't know whether that will be the path taken by this staff, but it's certainly an opportunity.

Right now, though, I'm just hoping kids get to play in 2021!
Beat COVID. Terps come next.

Are you "larry"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ6pQn_r7v8

[MDlaxfan76]

Perhaps the former Coach's ethnic heritage is a clue?

Are we really going there? I think I know how Tony and Paulie Walnuts feel about Columbus vs Indigenous Peoples Day but Petro? Who cares? It's a tiny tiny recruiting ploy. For all we know, any potential recruit from Long Island with a vowel at the end of his name got a private Happy Columbus Day e-mail. (that's a joke)

As far as Daniels and his input into on whether Hopkins participates in '21 season - it will be interesting to see what happens If there is a large resurgence of the virus in the winter - that's going to be a tough call. With virtually no TV revenue - it will be a much easier call to cut those sports for Spring '21 than football or basketball. You're noticing inch by inch - the stands at college football games are becoming more and more populated. "ol Einstein DeSantis in Florida is now allowing full capacity stadiums (though I guess university presidents are showing some restraint) but - 80,000 plus in Tallahassee, Gainesville - what could possibly go wrong?

For a little levity, SNL skit this past weekend:

https://digg.com/video/bill-burr-plays- ... oss-on-snl

[HopFan16]

There has been no indication whatsoever that if a D1 lacrosse season is played and every other team is playing, then Hopkins will not participate. That is strawman wishcasting on the part of people who shrivel into a ball and disintegrate if they don't find something to fault the JHU administration over—even when it's not a position they actually have.

[Jaysjay88]

Perhaps the former Coach's ethnic heritage is a clue?

Are we really going there? I think I know how Tony and Paulie Walnuts feel about Columbus vs Indigenous Peoples Day but Petro? Who cares? It's a tiny tiny recruiting ploy. For all we know, any potential recruit from Long Island with a vowel at the end of his name got a private Happy Columbus Day e-mail. (that's a joke)

As far as Daniels and his input into on whether Hopkins participates in '21 season - it will be interesting to see what happens If there is a large resurgence of the virus in the winter - that's going to be a tough call. With virtually no TV revenue - it will be a much easier call to cut those sports for Spring '21 than football or basketball. You're noticing inch by inch - the stands at college football games are becoming more and more populated. "ol Einstein DeSantis in Florida is now allowing full capacity stadiums (though I guess university presidents are showing some restraint) but - 80,000 plus in Tallahassee, Gainesville - what could possibly go wrong?

For a little levity, SNL skit this past weekend:

https://digg.com/video/bill-burr-plays- ... oss-on-snl

Hilarious.
BTW, perhaps flippant in my response. Merely pointing out the obvious potential tension. Even out in the liberal Bay Area, there remains tension between the Italian Americans (mostly in North Beach) who love Columbus as hero son of Italy and the appropriate reframing of his historical significance by most of the rest. Not saying that Petro believes anything in particular, but pointing out that ethnicity can and often does play a role in how one views history and history is important....in lacrosse.