LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Laxdad457 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:15 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

Maine Maritime is in the Tourney this year Bates and Colby should be honored to play them.

I am sure Bates was thrilled to see them this year! Bates game vs Southern Maine and Colby's vs Maritime were cancelled due to weather. Not easy to play early season games in Maine. In regards to scheduling, I will say that Bates is odd as they start their season (actual games, not practice) 2 weeks before all of the other NESCACs. If Bowdoin could do this, they could potentially squeeze in another game vs a top team but it would have to be a very long road trip. If they wanted to go whoop up on Cabrini it would be 10 hours.

Laxdad457 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:15 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

Maine Maritime is in the Tourney this year Bates and Colby should be honored to play them.

Yet another NCAA absurdity: letting cream puffs into the tourney with AQs "grows the game," but top-20 teams are denied AL bids because they schedule the same teams for OOC games.

Laxdad457 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:15 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

Maine Maritime is in the Tourney this year Bates and Colby should be honored to play them.

Lol Maine maritime who lost to UNE who finished 6th out of 9 in a very mid commonwealth coast conference

Bigdawg69 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:53 pm

Laxdad457 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 4:15 pm

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm I don't believe that...I know that. Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world. Bowdoin has actually dropped such teams (University of New England) recently in an attempt to boost their schedule. The rest of your argument is straight from someone who pays no more attention to the sport than googling the tournament results. Judging teams by the "light" they are looked at based on their past results is exactly the lazy nonsense that anyone who follows sports rightly ridicules. You may look to the polls because you don't know the teams or watch the games, others actually have a good idea of the relative strength of teams, this year. Several players from 3 years ago still on Cabrini's roster! Oh my stars and garters! No wonder they ran through that murderous conference of theirs.

Maine Maritime is in the Tourney this year Bates and Colby should be honored to play them.

Lol Maine maritime who lost to UNE who finished 6th out of 9 in a very mid commonwealth coast conference

Maine Maritime>Bowdoin??!!

[/quote]
Yet another NCAA absurdity: letting cream puffs into the tourney with AQs "grows the game," but top-20 teams are denied AL bids because they schedule the same teams for OOC games.
[/quote]

The NCAA takes the conference champs in almost all sports for the tournament AND there are worse teams that make it because of that system. No system is perfect unfortunately unless everyone plays everyone else in the season. There is no way to objectively measure things so the fairest way is to win the conference and have some at large bids. It is the same as if they took 38 at large bids, team 39 through 50 would argue that they are better than half the teams that made it. Bowdoin was the 5th best team in the league, lost to every top 20 ranked team it played and the only reason why they finished as high as they did was because they started at #5. Now if they beat some of the 10 - 20 ranked team that were consistently in the ranking then it would be a different argument. Don't get me wrong, Bowdoin is a good team who would beat 60%-70% of the field but to poo poo other programs accomplishments is just wrong.

Got a better idea - Beat the top teams in the NESCAC and then you will get an at large bid.

The12lov3 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:06 pm
The NCAA takes the conference champs in almost all sports for the tournament AND there are worse teams that make it because of that system. No system is perfect unfortunately unless everyone plays everyone else in the season. There is no way to objectively measure things so the fairest way is to win the conference and have some at large bids. It is the same as if they took 38 at large bids, team 39 through 50 would argue that they are better than half the teams that made it. Bowdoin was the 5th best team in the league, lost to every top 20 ranked team it played and the only reason why they finished as high as they did was because they started at #5. Now if they beat some of the 10 - 20 ranked team that were consistently in the ranking then it would be a different argument. Don't get me wrong, Bowdoin is a good team who would beat 60%-70% of the field but to poo poo other programs accomplishments is just wrong.

Got a better idea - Beat the top teams in the NESCAC and then you will get an at large bid.

Exactly. Otherwise, let's just cancel the regular season and conference tournament and just invite the top-ranked teams. I'm sure this year's Wesleyan squad would be thrilled with that approach, and Middlebury wouldn't even be in the NCAAs!

The12lov3 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:06 pm Don't get me wrong, Bowdoin is a good team who would beat 60%-70% of the field but to poo poo other programs accomplishments is just wrong.

I'm not ragging anyone but the NCAA, which seems hell-bent on deterring top programs from scheduling teams outside of the top ~30 ... in clear conflict with the goal of "growing the game."

beantown_lax879 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:19 pm Exactly. Otherwise, let's just cancel the regular season and conference tournament and just invite the top-ranked teams. I'm sure this year's Wesleyan squad would be thrilled with that approach, and Middlebury wouldn't even be in the NCAAs!

Yes - that's exactly what folks are saying ...

All I can say then is thank goodness for Bowdoin. Doing the lords work. At great expense to the tournament aspirations of their tuition paying student athletes, they schedule sub-par teams from the bowels of Maine, because that coach knows their coach, single handedly “growing the game.”

Bravo.

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:53 pm All I can say then is thank goodness for Bowdoin. Doing the lords work. At great expense to the tournament aspirations of their tuition paying student athletes, they schedule sub-par teams from the bowels of Maine, because that coach knows their coach, single handedly “growing the game.”

Bravo.

Bowdoin played the same number of Maine teams as Tufts? They actively removed some of those teams (UNE) etc. a while ago.

OinkWoof wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:29 pm

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:53 pm All I can say then is thank goodness for Bowdoin. Doing the lords work. At great expense to the tournament aspirations of their tuition paying student athletes, they schedule sub-par teams from the bowels of Maine, because that coach knows their coach, single handedly “growing the game.”

Bravo.

Bowdoin played the same number of Maine teams as Tufts? They actively removed some of those teams (UNE) etc. a while ago.

I was replying to this. I suppose I should’ve quoted it…

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm ... Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world...

You know what? Forget it, you changed my mind. Babson is amazing. They have leap frogged everyone and don’t have to do the dance other teams have to. Where they recruit better talent, improve their schedule, get a couple wins from known entities, and slowly over the course of years climb the ladder to where they get national recognition. (You know, how Cabrini did it) Babson’s there! They did it! And that means that Bowdoin has a stellar win.
Happy?

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:39 pm

OinkWoof wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:29 pm

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:53 pm All I can say then is thank goodness for Bowdoin. Doing the lords work. At great expense to the tournament aspirations of their tuition paying student athletes, they schedule sub-par teams from the bowels of Maine, because that coach knows their coach, single handedly “growing the game.”

Bravo.

Bowdoin played the same number of Maine teams as Tufts? They actively removed some of those teams (UNE) etc. a while ago.

I was replying to this. I suppose I should’ve quoted it…

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm ... Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world...

You know what? Forget it, you changed my mind. Babson is amazing. They have leap frogged everyone and don’t have to do the dance other teams have to. Where they recruit better talent, improve their schedule, get a couple wins from known entities, and slowly over the course of years climb the ladder to where they get national recognition. They’re there! They did it! And that means that Bowdoin has a stellar win.
Happy?

I was personally never unhappy. Bowdoin didn't win the 1 goal games vs Amherst and Williams and as a result those teams deservedly made the cut over Bowdoin. I and many others have reinforced that above and are just discussing some of the dynamics.

They had a decent year, with no "bad" losses like others, but in the end couldn't elevate.

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:39 pm

OinkWoof wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:29 pm

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:53 pm All I can say then is thank goodness for Bowdoin. Doing the lords work. At great expense to the tournament aspirations of their tuition paying student athletes, they schedule sub-par teams from the bowels of Maine, because that coach knows their coach, single handedly “growing the game.”

Bravo.

Bowdoin played the same number of Maine teams as Tufts? They actively removed some of those teams (UNE) etc. a while ago.

I was replying to this. I suppose I should’ve quoted it…

pcowlax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:50 pm ... Why do you think Bates played Southern Maine and Maine Maritime this year? And Colby St. Joseph's, Thomas and MM? They have dates to fill and they play local teams to help boost them. The coaches know each other, lacrosse in Maine is an insular world...

You know what? Forget it, you changed my mind. Babson is amazing. They have leap frogged everyone and don’t have to do the dance other teams have to. Where they recruit better talent, improve their schedule, get a couple wins from known entities, and slowly over the course of years climb the ladder to where they get national recognition. (You know, how Cabrini did it) Babson’s there! They did it! And that means that Bowdoin has a stellar win.
Happy?

There is always going to to be snubs. Fact of life. Top ten teams make it, 11 through 15 would complain. We need to respect the process that the NCAA has implemented and agree that good teams are going to get the shaft. I am not saying Bowdoin fans don’t have legit arguments, they do but this is process. Everything has its shortcomings. What people are forgetting is that good or bad conference, it is still equally challenging to win it in most cases meaning that some conference are better then others but inter inference play is a lot of time just as difficult. I like the system and think it make sense. Kids go to school with aspirations to make it to the show. Give all the teams a chance because in the long run, it is much better for growth of the game.

smoova wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:22 pm

The12lov3 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 5:06 pm Don't get me wrong, Bowdoin is a good team who would beat 60%-70% of the field but to poo poo other programs accomplishments is just wrong.

I'm not ragging anyone but the NCAA, which seems hell-bent on deterring top programs from scheduling teams outside of the top ~30 ... in clear conflict with the goal of "growing the game."

You do realize that half of the NCAA college lacrosse teams would not exist without the AQ right?

AQ's allow chances for schools to see a return on their investments. Why add a sport if you're never going to be able to compete for anything?

Not only has it grown the game, but it has spread talent and made it more competitive because schools are investing in it and that goes for D1 as well.

I assume Bowdoin understood what they had to do to get into the playoffs at the start of the year. Pool C and AQ's were not dropped on them at the last second.

lilax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:31 pm You do realize that half of the NCAA college lacrosse teams would not exist without the AQ right?

AQ's allow chances for schools to see a return on their investments. Why add a sport if you're never going to be able to compete for anything?

Not only has it grown the game, but it has spread talent and made it more competitive because schools are investing in it and that goes for D1 as well.

Wow, you are deep into the NCAA's Kool Aid. The majority of D3 programs will never sniff the NCAA tourney and, lo and behold, players still matriculate. Full-pay heads in beds is the ROI for starting a lacrosse program ... in any division.

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 2:49 pm So now the NESCAC forum is pumping Babson to elevate Bowdoin?

The NESCAC forum watches the games and compares resumes instead of relying on "idk I recognize that name, I'm sure they're still just as good as they were four years ago" analysis. Try it.

On Babson’s own website they have it posted that they’ve been to 2 (two) NCAA tournaments. They can be playing their personal best year ever and still might not be looked at by many in the same light as a team that won a NCAA championship with in the last 3 tournaments.

Why exactly should anyone care more about a "Team History" page on a website than the actual games that were played this season? Seriously?

Cabrini won the National Championship 3 tournaments ago. There are several players from that team still on the roster. Christ, how short a memory should we have?

"Three tournaments ago" is four years ago. Entire careers have come and gone since then. We're talking about where teams stand in 2023, not 2019. Not sure why that has to be said.

Just for fun: 2017 Bates started 14-0 and was ranked #1 in the country. Should we have been falling over ourselves about "respecting them" in 2020 when they started 1-5 with some of the same kids who were freshmen on the 2017 team? Should we be deferential to a team that has gone 2-24 in 2022-23 because "just three tournaments ago" they were a top-15 team with three All-Americans?

Babson is having a good year. But before the regional rankings come out, how do we measure teams’ success throughout the season? Most look to polls, which they can disagree with and/or discuss. Cabrini was a fixture. Where was Babson?

Give me a break. We look at who teams have played and what their results were. Our understanding of teams changes throughout the season as year-to-year rises/declines become more obvious. Measuring team success prior to the release of the regional rankings isn't some kind of vision quest. It requires an internet connection and a bit of free time.

Also, saying that looking at polls (which are lazily slapped together with the same 20-25 teams every single year) is the way to go instead of looking at the actual resumes/on the field product is just not a serious comment.

RE6ULATOR wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 6:39 pm You know what? Forget it, you changed my mind. Babson is amazing. They have leap frogged everyone and don’t have to do the dance other teams have to. Where they recruit better talent, improve their schedule, get a couple wins from known entities, and slowly over the course of years climb the ladder to where they get national recognition. (You know, how Cabrini did it) Babson’s there! They did it! And that means that Bowdoin has a stellar win.
Happy?

You are describing what they have done to get their program to this point. I'm sorry that Babson hasn't done enough to expand their #brand amongst the people out there who can't be bothered to learn more than a handful of colleges, but that doesn't change how good they have been this season.

lilax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:31 pm You do realize that half of the NCAA college lacrosse teams would not exist without the AQ right?

AQ's allow chances for schools to see a return on their investments. Why add a sport if you're never going to be able to compete for anything?

I have to ask...

1. Do you genuinely think that having a ceiling of getting blown out by 20+ goals in the first round of the tournament every single year attracts recruits or is responsible for programs adding lacrosse? I have a very hard time buying this.

2. What is the 'return' for low/mid-level D-III lacrosse? Legitimately asking, I don't know what the return would actually be.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:30 pm

lilax wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:31 pm You do realize that half of the NCAA college lacrosse teams would not exist without the AQ right?

AQ's allow chances for schools to see a return on their investments. Why add a sport if you're never going to be able to compete for anything?

I have to ask...

1. Do you genuinely think that having a ceiling of getting blown out by 20+ goals in the first round of the tournament every single year attracts recruits or is responsible for programs adding lacrosse? I have a very hard time buying this.

2. What is the 'return' for low/mid-level D-III lacrosse? Legitimately asking, I don't know what the return would actually be.

Let's be clear, the first round games are (or should be) generally competitive as they are normally between AQs from weak conferences. The blowouts occur in round 2, like this Saturday when the winner of Maine Maritime-Emmanuel gets boat raced by Tufts. The Maine Maritime-Emmanuel game should be a good game since they each played NEC pretty evenly.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm The NESCAC forum watches the games and compares resumes instead of relying on "idk I recognize that name, I'm sure they're still just as good as they were four years ago" analysis. Try it.

Hmm, it actually seems like they watch games involving their teams they like (just like everyone else) and form an opinion on the other team based on their performance (like everyone else). Or maybe it’s like you say, and their watching the 200+ DIII teams games to really get in on who’s getting better.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm Why exactly should anyone care more about a "Team History" page on a website than the actual games that were played this season? Seriously?

That’s a great question… to ask Babson, who put it as a ticker on their men’s lacrosse page. Maybe they think it’s an accomplishment, which clearly you don’t.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm "Three tournaments ago" is four years ago. Entire careers have come and gone since then. We're talking about where teams stand in 2023, not 2019. Not sure why that has to be said.

- it’s mentioned because someone said that recency bias regarding championship teams is lasting too long.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm Just for fun: 2017 Bates started 14-0 and was ranked #1 in the country. Should we have been falling over ourselves about "respecting them" ….

What did Bates accomplish that year? A personal best or a National Championship. There can be individual gains, and then there is National brand growth. What don’t you get?

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm Give me a break. We look at who teams have played and what their results were. Our understanding of teams changes throughout the season as year-to-year rises/declines become more obvious. Measuring team success prior to the release of the regional rankings isn't some kind of vision quest. It requires an internet connection and a bit of free time.
…

I’m sorry, but outside of Babson parents and those of the team they are facing VERY FEW people are tuning in. That’s where national recognition comes in. Man you’re really struggling with this concept. Nobody cares about Babson because they haven’t EARNED national recognition.

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm You are describing what they have done to get their program to this point. I'm sorry that Babson hasn't done enough to expand their #brand amongst the people out there who can't be bothered to learn more than a handful of colleges, but that doesn't change how good they have been this season.

My man, there are over 200 schools with DIII lacrosse. Maybe 30 have national recognition in the lacrosse community. Babson ain’t one of them yet. Get over it. I should watch every game? Every team? Do you?

Unknown Participant wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:54 pm

ah23 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:22 pm 1. Do you genuinely think that having a ceiling of getting blown out by 20+ goals in the first round of the tournament every single year attracts recruits or is responsible for programs adding lacrosse?

Let's be clear, the first round games are (or should be) generally competitive as they are normally between AQs from weak conferences. The blowouts occur in round 2, like this Saturday when the winner of Maine Maritime-Emmanuel gets boat raced by Tufts. The Maine Maritime-Emmanuel game should be a good game since they each played NEC pretty evenly.

Don’t tell him… just let him keep on keepin on.

Unknown Participant wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:54 pm Let's be clear, the first round games are (or should be) generally competitive as they are normally between AQs from weak conferences. The blowouts occur in round 2, like this Saturday when the winner of Maine Maritime-Emmanuel gets boat raced by Tufts. The Maine Maritime-Emmanuel game should be a good game since they each played NEC pretty evenly.

For sure, I mean the second round. Not to dismiss the Wednesday games, but...they're easy to forget.