QF #3 Hopkins vs #6 Virginia Sunday @2:30

[norcalhop]

Coach K was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17 in his first three seasons at Duke. Doc would have fired him.

Obviously not suggesting PM will be Coach K, but a little more patience and grace should be afforded to him. PM has gone 4-9, 7-9, 12-6 in the quarters, and 13-3 and a bull$hit crease call from the final four. That’s really, really not that bad man!

It’s not that he is a bad coach. PM is a very good coach.

But there are very good coaches who will probably never win a national championship.

With Tillman, one thought it was just a matter of time, as frustrating as all those final losses were. Corrigan, maybe folks had more doubts, but he reached Final Fours and title games. It wasn’t surprising that he eventually won one.

Right now, PM is a notch below Tambroni. Tambroni may win a national championship someday, but I am very skeptical. He’s a very good coach, and he’s had his chances. But I am skeptical. Would put Cottle and Edell in that same tier.

Just a note … latter-day Petro reached plenty of quarterfinals. Missed just one tournament. Can PM even match latter-day Petro?

This 2024 Hopkins team was good … really good. PM is not going to have a team this good for at least several seasons.

Again … anyone think PM will win a national championship at Hopkins?

Because Hopkins is still Hopkins, and that is still the only measure of success for Hopkins lacrosse.

DocBarrister

PM is a notch below tambroni who PM already beat? Alright, time for some whisky.

[DocBarrister]

Coach K was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17 in his first three seasons at Duke. Doc would have fired him.

Obviously not suggesting PM will be Coach K, but a little more patience and grace should be afforded to him. PM has gone 4-9, 7-9, 12-6 in the quarters, and 13-3 and a bull$hit crease call from the final four. That’s really, really not that bad man!

It’s not that he is a bad coach. PM is a very good coach.

But there are very good coaches who will probably never win a national championship.

With Tillman, one thought it was just a matter of time, as frustrating as all those final losses were. Corrigan, maybe folks had more doubts, but he reached Final Fours and title games. It wasn’t surprising that he eventually won one.

Right now, PM is a notch below Tambroni. Tambroni may win a national championship someday, but I am very skeptical. He’s a very good coach, and he’s had his chances. But I am skeptical. Would put Cottle and Edell in that same tier.

Just a note … latter-day Petro reached plenty of quarterfinals. Missed just one tournament. Can PM even match latter-day Petro?

This 2024 Hopkins team was good … really good. PM is not going to have a team this good for at least several seasons.

Again … anyone think PM will win a national championship at Hopkins?

Because Hopkins is still Hopkins, and that is still the only measure of success for Hopkins lacrosse.

DocBarrister

PM is a notch below tambroni who PM already beat? Alright, time for some whisky.

Yeah, Tambroni … who has led his teams to four Final Fours and a national championship game.

DocBarrister

[jrn19]

There are two elite coaches in the country clearly ahead of the pack. Tiffany and Tillman. One of those two has been in every Final Four for the last 10 years. They're 10-1 and 5-1 in the Quarterfinal round respectively and the 1's in those columns were losses to the other. To win the championship, you have had to beat one of those two in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

After that, you've got Corrigan on a great run right now and with lots of success previously. Danowski has historical success and is still usually there at the business end each year. Tambs has made a bunch of Final Fours. But Milliman has also made the Quarterfinals in 3 of his 6 seasons as a head coach and once he's had the conditions set up for him, has basically always had his team in or around the Top 10. There are criticisms of him - I have some for today - but he's very early in his career and having a lot of success. The comparison to 2000s Petro is silly. 2000s Petro was tremendous, maybe the best out there, but that was when if you put together a good team at Hopkins, you'd make the Final Four. A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

[a fan]

........ A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

This. Exactly this.

[DocBarrister]

There are two elite coaches in the country clearly ahead of the pack. Tiffany and Tillman. One of those two has been in every Final Four for the last 10 years. They're 10-1 and 5-1 in the Quarterfinal round respectively and the 1's in those columns were losses to the other. To win the championship, you have had to beat one of those two in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

After that, you've got Corrigan on a great run right now and with lots of success previously. Danowski has historical success and is still usually there at the business end each year. Tambs has made a bunch of Final Fours. But Milliman has also made the Quarterfinals in 3 of his 6 seasons as a head coach and once he's had the conditions set up for him, has basically always had his team in or around the Top 10. There are criticisms of him - I have some for today - but he's very early in his career and having a lot of success. The comparison to 2000s Petro is silly. 2000s Petro was tremendous, maybe the best out there, but that was when if you put together a good team at Hopkins, you'd make the Final Four. A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

Your points are reasonable, but Petro didn’t just put a good team together.

His Class of 2005 was absolutely stunning. I think there were originally nine recruits in that class. Harrison gets all the attention, but the class also included stars who had crazy high lax IQ (Watson, LeSueur) and one of the best SSDMs of all time (Benson Erwin). Easily the best recruiting class that year.

And no … recruiting such a class wasn’t any easier than it is now.

I think PM is a very good recruiter … but will we ever see a class that’s the best in the country?

DocBarrister

[Hooz123]

There are two elite coaches in the country clearly ahead of the pack. Tiffany and Tillman. One of those two has been in every Final Four for the last 10 years. They're 10-1 and 5-1 in the Quarterfinal round respectively and the 1's in those columns were losses to the other. To win the championship, you have had to beat one of those two in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

After that, you've got Corrigan on a great run right now and with lots of success previously. Danowski has historical success and is still usually there at the business end each year. Tambs has made a bunch of Final Fours. But Milliman has also made the Quarterfinals in 3 of his 6 seasons as a head coach and once he's had the conditions set up for him, has basically always had his team in or around the Top 10. There are criticisms of him - I have some for today - but he's very early in his career and having a lot of success. The comparison to 2000s Petro is silly. 2000s Petro was tremendous, maybe the best out there, but that was when if you put together a good team at Hopkins, you'd make the Final Four. A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

Your points are reasonable, but Petro didn’t just put a good team together.

His Class of 2005 was absolutely stunning. I think there were originally nine recruits in that class. Harrison gets all the attention, but the class also included stars who had crazy high lax IQ (Watson, LeSueur) and one of the best SSDMs of all time (Benson Erwin). Easily the best recruiting class that year.

And no … recruiting such a class wasn’t any easier than it is now.

I think PM is a very good recruiter … but will we ever see a class that’s the best in the country?

DocBarrister

Recruiting at Hop in early 2000s was just as hard as it is today? GTFO LOL

[DocBarrister]

........ A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

This. Exactly this.

Never was.

The Final Four teams from twenty years were more than good. “Good” has never been good enough for the Final Four.

This was true even in the 1970s and 1980s.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

There are two elite coaches in the country clearly ahead of the pack. Tiffany and Tillman. One of those two has been in every Final Four for the last 10 years. They're 10-1 and 5-1 in the Quarterfinal round respectively and the 1's in those columns were losses to the other. To win the championship, you have had to beat one of those two in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

After that, you've got Corrigan on a great run right now and with lots of success previously. Danowski has historical success and is still usually there at the business end each year. Tambs has made a bunch of Final Fours. But Milliman has also made the Quarterfinals in 3 of his 6 seasons as a head coach and once he's had the conditions set up for him, has basically always had his team in or around the Top 10. There are criticisms of him - I have some for today - but he's very early in his career and having a lot of success. The comparison to 2000s Petro is silly. 2000s Petro was tremendous, maybe the best out there, but that was when if you put together a good team at Hopkins, you'd make the Final Four. A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

Your points are reasonable, but Petro didn’t just put a good team together.

His Class of 2005 was absolutely stunning. I think there were originally nine recruits in that class. Harrison gets all the attention, but the class also included stars who had crazy high lax IQ (Watson, LeSueur) and one of the best SSDMs of all time (Benson Erwin). Easily the best recruiting class that year.

And no … recruiting such a class wasn’t any easier than it is now.

I think PM is a very good recruiter … but will we ever see a class that’s the best in the country?

DocBarrister

Recruiting at Hop in early 2000s was just as hard as it is today? GTFO LOL

Probably tougher.

As folks have mentioned, the talent pool was more limited and you had guys like Desko, Starsia, and Tierney to compete with.

These days, if you whiff on a great Maryland or LI player, you can go hunt for talent in California, Texas, and Florida.

Wasn’t always that way.

DocBarrister

[Hooz123]

Oh I get what you’re starting to argue. You’re just wrong.

[norcalhop]

There are two elite coaches in the country clearly ahead of the pack. Tiffany and Tillman. One of those two has been in every Final Four for the last 10 years. They're 10-1 and 5-1 in the Quarterfinal round respectively and the 1's in those columns were losses to the other. To win the championship, you have had to beat one of those two in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

After that, you've got Corrigan on a great run right now and with lots of success previously. Danowski has historical success and is still usually there at the business end each year. Tambs has made a bunch of Final Fours. But Milliman has also made the Quarterfinals in 3 of his 6 seasons as a head coach and once he's had the conditions set up for him, has basically always had his team in or around the Top 10. There are criticisms of him - I have some for today - but he's very early in his career and having a lot of success. The comparison to 2000s Petro is silly. 2000s Petro was tremendous, maybe the best out there, but that was when if you put together a good team at Hopkins, you'd make the Final Four. A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

Your points are reasonable, but Petro didn’t just put a good team together.

His Class of 2005 was absolutely stunning. I think there were originally nine recruits in that class. Harrison gets all the attention, but the class also included stars who had crazy high lax IQ (Watson, LeSueur) and one of the best SSDMs of all time (Benson Erwin). Easily the best recruiting class that year.

And no … recruiting such a class wasn’t any easier than it is now.

I think PM is a very good recruiter … but will we ever see a class that’s the best in the country?

DocBarrister

Recruiting at Hop in early 2000s was just as hard as it is today? GTFO LOL

Probably tougher.

As folks have mentioned, the talent pool was more limited and you had guys like Desko, Starsia, and Tierney to compete with.

These days, if you whiff on a great Maryland or LI player, you can go hunt for talent in California, Texas, and Florida.

Wasn’t always that way.

DocBarrister

I don't agree with this at all. Nowadays, you have to compete against 15 other solid division 1 teams including Notre Dame, Yale, Michigan, Maryland, Penn State, Denver, Harvard who were essentially non-entities (aka championship vying) back when Hopkins was winning championships. While the aggregate talent pool has increased, there are still only 15-20 five star recruits in a given year. Instagram did not really exist in the 2005 to 2010 era. It's a completely different environment Hopkins has to compete in. Plus NIL and transfer portal now.

[a fan]

........ A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

This. Exactly this.

Never was.

The Final Four teams from twenty years were more than good. “Good” has never been good enough for the Final Four.

This was true even in the 1970s and 1980s.

DocBarrister

Pay attention: he wrote good team "at any of these programs". Meaning in this context is SU and Hopkins.

He's right. I can name good not great SU teams that were a part of 22 FF's with no difficulty whatsoever. And then the "great" ones? That meant they had future HOF's all over the roster in one season.

The REASON SU kept making FF's is that the talent pool was so concentrated to just a few power teams. Syracuse had future 1st team AA's running second midfield, for heaven's sake.

Not anymore. And that's what Jrn19 means. Or that's how I read it, he can speak for himself.

Personally, as much as I'd like to see Syracuse win Championships? I enjoy the regular season SO MUCH MORE, because unlike from about 1980-2000 for Syracuse....W's are hard to come by against pretty much all of D1. It's great. The W's feel better, and earned.

And the conference tournaments are fantastic. Villanova stuck it to DU this year. And the Ivies? Every intra-conference game was a treat.

Our sport is in a great place. Next up? New blood in the FF........

[norcalhop]

There is no reason why Hopkins (especially now that it's winning again) can't have the top ranked class again. It provides a good education with the best financial aid coupled with Lax as the main sport on campus and NIL support.

[pcowlax]

Corrigan was HC at Notre Dame 34 years before winning!!!! “Maybe some folks had doubts”???? There are a very, very small handful of true difference making coaches. There is then a larger tier of very good coaches who can with a NC if they put the right team together. After 34 years, Corrigan did that, and is the heavy favorite to go back to back. To say with buffoonish confidence that Millman will never win and is not a coach who can ever win is a typically laughable take.

[BigTurn]

There is no reason why Hopkins (especially now that it's winning again) can't have the top ranked class again. It provides a good education with the best financial aid coupled with Lax as the main sport on campus and NIL support.

Hopkins will be able to attract talent for the reasons above. Cuse on the other hand, has started to miss out on talent in NYS and elsewhere because it’s $70k+ all in a year for a degree that’s no where near other ACC schools, ivies, hop, etc.

[jrn19]

........ A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

This. Exactly this.

Never was.

The Final Four teams from twenty years were more than good. “Good” has never been good enough for the Final Four.

This was true even in the 1970s and 1980s.

DocBarrister

Pay attention: he wrote good team "at any of these programs". Meaning in this context is SU and Hopkins.

He's right. I can name good not great SU teams that were a part of 22 FF's with no difficulty whatsoever. And then the "great" ones? That meant they had future HOF's all over the roster in one season.

The REASON SU kept making FF's is that the talent pool was so concentrated to just a few power teams. Syracuse had future 1st team AA's running second midfield, for heaven's sake.

Not anymore. And that's what Jrn19 means. Or that's how I read it, he can speak for himself.

Personally, as much as I'd like to see Syracuse win Championships? I enjoy the regular season SO MUCH MORE, because unlike from about 1980-2000 for Syracuse....W's are hard to come by against pretty much all of D1. It's great. The W's feel better, and earned.

And the conference tournaments are fantastic. Villanova stuck it to DU this year. And the Ivies? Every intra-conference game was a treat.

Our sport is in a great place. Next up? New blood in the FF........

Yes. You nailed my thoughts.

Cuse had a great team in 2011 that lost in the Quarterfinal. They had a very good team in 2015 that lost to Hopkins. They've lost in the Quarterfinals 3 straight times.

Hopkins had a really, really good team in 2018. Lost in the Quarters. They had a very good team this year. Lost in the Quarters.

Notre Dame lost four consecutive quarterfinals between 2016-2022 before they finally broke through and won the title

In 1999, Cuse made the Final Four as an 8 seed. They beat the #1 seed Loyola, one of the 2 or 3 best teams the Hounds ever had. And then they beat Georgetown in the only Final Four the Hoyas have ever played in. They lost to both of these teams in the playoffs in the last 5 years.

We don't have "parity", but it is unequivocably harder to make the Final Four now. It was hard to win it in those days cause of the great teams on that final weekend, but their path was easy

[DocBarrister]

Corrigan was HC at Notre Dame 34 years before winning!!!! “Maybe some folks had doubts”???? There are a very, very small handful of true difference making coaches. There is then a larger tier of very good coaches who can with a NC if they put the right team together. After 34 years, Corrigan did that, and is the heavy favorite to go back to back. To say with buffoonish confidence that Millman will never win and is not a coach who can ever win is a typically laughable take.

ND might as well have been on Mars. Remember the Great Western Lacrosse League, which wasn’t in any way great?

If Milliman wins a national championship in 30 years … say 2054 … my ghost will happily admit it was wrong.

DocBarrister

[ardilla secreta]

Said ot before. You cant just rely on set offense. You need to push the ball at times. Hopkins had plenty of opportunities in the 4th quarter and Ot to push play.

Might as well get end of replay review if your not going to get it right. The non in crease call was awful.

i was pulling for hopkins and that call was too close to over turn. not what replay was intended for.

New Rule
No more playoff venues with blue, red, magenta, fushia, etc field lines and creases.
If there were a white crease in use it would have been an easy call and Virginia players wouldn’t have inadvertently run out of bounds during a crucial moment.

[10stone5]

There is no reason why Hopkins (especially now that it's winning again) can't have the top ranked class again. It provides a good education with the best financial aid coupled with Lax as the main sport on campus and NIL support.

Hopkins will be able to attract talent for the reasons above. Cuse on the other hand, has started to miss out on talent in NYS and elsewhere because it’s $70k+ all in a year for a degree that’s no where near other ACC schools, ivies, hop, etc.

Hopefully, the coaches will be ready to go, to compete come September.
So, you're already looking three years out for that proverbial best class.

ACCs have locked the best classes, 2023, 2024, 2025.

A better option might be to at least get one or two top ten talents. Target those players, like a Quintan Kilrain.

[Finster]

........ A good team at any of these programs is no longer a guarantee to make a Final Four

This. Exactly this.

Never was.

The Final Four teams from twenty years were more than good. “Good” has never been good enough for the Final Four.

This was true even in the 1970s and 1980s.

DocBarrister

Pay attention: he wrote good team "at any of these programs". Meaning in this context is SU and Hopkins.

He's right. I can name good not great SU teams that were a part of 22 FF's with no difficulty whatsoever. And then the "great" ones? That meant they had future HOF's all over the roster in one season.

The REASON SU kept making FF's is that the talent pool was so concentrated to just a few power teams. Syracuse had future 1st team AA's running second midfield, for heaven's sake.

Not anymore. And that's what Jrn19 means. Or that's how I read it, he can speak for himself.

Personally, as much as I'd like to see Syracuse win Championships? I enjoy the regular season SO MUCH MORE, because unlike from about 1980-2000 for Syracuse....W's are hard to come by against pretty much all of D1. It's great. The W's feel better, and earned.

And the conference tournaments are fantastic. Villanova stuck it to DU this year. And the Ivies? Every intra-conference game was a treat.

Our sport is in a great place. Next up? New blood in the FF........

Yes. You nailed my thoughts.

Cuse had a great team in 2011 that lost in the Quarterfinal. They had a very good team in 2015 that lost to Hopkins. They've lost in the Quarterfinals 3 straight times.

Hopkins had a really, really good team in 2018. Lost in the Quarters. They had a very good team this year. Lost in the Quarters.

Notre Dame lost four consecutive quarterfinals between 2016-2022 before they finally broke through and won the title

In 1999, Cuse made the Final Four as an 8 seed. They beat the #1 seed Loyola, one of the 2 or 3 best teams the Hounds ever had. And then they beat Georgetown in the only Final Four the Hoyas have ever played in. They lost to both of these teams in the playoffs in the last 5 years.

We don't have "parity", but it is unequivocably harder to make the Final Four now. It was hard to win it in those days cause of the great teams on that final weekend, but their path was easy

Which is why I consider Tillman to be the best in the business. His teams come to win at NCAA tournament time. Maryland always seems to have a blue collar mentality player who leads their way...this year, IMO, it's Weirman.

[Hoxwurth]

New Rule
No more playoff venues with blue, red, magenta, fushia, etc field lines and creases.
If there were a white crease in use it would have been an easy call and Virginia players wouldn’t have inadvertently run out of bounds during a crucial moment.

It's one thing for u12 lacrosse to have multi-colored lines to accommodate soccer, girls lacrosse, and whatever other sports, but the NCAA tournament should have better lines and not be on a football field.