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Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:11 pm
by Mid-Lax
The scenarios for the Ivy League (per CU77) including having to win by so many goals are just crazy. I wonder how well the priority of these tie-breakers are thought out when these rules were put in place. They certainly mean an awful lot now. Should be a fun Saturday.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:38 pm
by thetruth
Based on these nutty scenarios if you are Cornell and find yourself down by 4 goals with 4 minutes to go what do you do? And if you are Princeton how do you respond? Hopefully it doesn’t go there but it could get really weird if it does.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:47 pm
by joewillie78
thetruth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:38 pm
Based on these nutty scenarios if you are Cornell and find yourself down by 4 goals with 4 minutes to go what do you do? And if you are Princeton how do you respond? Hopefully it doesn’t go there but it could get really weird if it does.
I will be at this game, and as a fan, of course I want to be in the ILT but you have to have some RESPECT for the game. I love the RED but I love the game of LACROSSE even more and dont want some ridiculous rule to make a sham of the game I love so much.
BOTH teams need to win or lose with Dignity. Anything else would be a stain on the game we all love.
SHAME on the Ivy league for having this absurd rule.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:49 pm
by thetruth
+1 Joe. Well said. Good luck to the Red this weekend.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 pm
by calourie
Competitors compete against each other not against some abstract rule. I would be astounded if Cornell didn'l give a full effort until game's end regardless of the playoff implications.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:50 pm
by FannOLax
Hmmmaybe getting ahead of myself here, but could the Ivy get three teams into the dance? If Yale and Penn win their games until losing to Cornell in the ILT, it would seem likely. Although, the NCAA loves to have the defending champion there (recall North Carolina who made the 2017 tourney with an 8-7 record), so Yale probably wouldn't even need to do that to get in.
The Ierlan Brothers get recognition: Chayse is Rookie of the Week and TD Co-Player of the Week, sharing the honor with Sowers.
https://ivyleague.com/news/2019/4/22/ie ... wards.aspx
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:14 pm
by Hawkeye
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:47 pm
SHAME on the Ivy league for having this absurd rule.
But you have to break ties somehow.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:23 am
by CU77
thetruth wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:38 pm
Based on these nutty scenarios if you are Cornell and find yourself down by 4 goals with 4 minutes to go what do you do?
Score two own goals.
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:14 pmBut you have to break ties somehow.
Yes, but there are ways to do it that don't lead to perverse incentives (as above). In this case, the tie should be broken by ordering the tied teams by goal differential in games among them, and
not by first picking the top team (or teams) by this method, and then reverting to head-to-head to break remaining ties.
I admit that this is not at all obvious, but how many decades of sports leagues have their been??? The "best practice" for tie breaking should be well known and standardized by now.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:22 am
by Hawkeye
CU77 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:23 am
Yes, but there are ways to do it that don't lead to perverse incentives (as above). In this case, the tie should be broken by ordering the tied teams by goal differential in games among them, and
not by first picking the top team (or teams) by this method, and then reverting to head-to-head to break remaining ties.
I'm not too proud to admit that I was apparently too dumb to look at the updated scenarios. I was looking at the quote in my post on the last page - instead of your actual post - and completely missed what you guys were talking about.
The current setup is definitely not ideal. I see the problem now.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:30 pm
by bearlaxfan
You guys forgetting the shot clock? Late 4th, Tigers up 5, Cornell ball in their defensive half, only 20 seconds to self-score. Does Princeton send its longpoles over the line to play D for Cornell??!!
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:44 pm
by CU77
Cornell shouldn't wait that long to start scoring own goals. (Hey, I didn't make the rules! Blame it on the geniuses at the Ivy League. Head is a lawyer with degrees from Duke.)
Also, as I just posted on the Cornell thread, Princeton cares much less about how many goals they win by. If it's 3 or more, they're in the ILT. (But who they play, Yale or Penn, depends on whether or not they win by 6 or more.)
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:02 am
by DALaxDad
I like Red so much more than Orange.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:28 am
by thetruth
Ironically, Princeton beat Cornell by 6 last year.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:11 am
by FannOLax
RedIvy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:15 pm
FannOLax wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:00 am
Princeton v Harvard: both of these teams have a mathematical chance of making the ILT, but desperately need to win today. Princeton ends its Ivy schedule at Cornell, while Harvard closes with Yale; so at 1-3 each, the winner today will have a massive task, while the loser is toast.... probably a scrap in the NJ rain. Princeton 13 Harvard 8.
Brown v Cornell: probably a soggy Providence battle; both teams 2-2, with Brown playing Dartmouth next weekend. Cornell 12-10.
Penn v Dartmouth in Philly: Penn 21 Dartmouth 6.
Wow... Cornell 12 Brown 9, Penn 22 Dartmouth 6
Put a thousand monkeys in front of a thousand computer screens... Anyway, big weekend coming up:
Penn v Vermont (playing in Wilton, CT): Penn 14-7
Yale @ Harvard: Yale 16-11
Princeton @ Cornell: Cornell 13-9
Brown @ Dartmouth: Brown 15-6
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 pm
by CU77
Posted this on the Cornell thread, but it's relevant here:
Multi-Team Tiebreaker
2. In the case of multiple ties (more than two teams tied for the same spot), the following process will be used: Note: The entire process for multiple-team ties must be completed. The Patriot League does not revert back to the two-way tie formula once the multiple-team tie has been resolved.
So there is at least one sports conference that understands that reverting to two-way is a bad idea.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:21 pm
by sguy9
I'll take a stab:
Penn v Vermont (playing in Wilton, CT): Penn 20-6
Yale @ Harvard: Yale 16-9
Princeton @ Cornell: Cornell 13-11
Brown @ Dartmouth: Brown 17-9
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:47 pm
by thetruth
Best explanation of the Ivy tiebreaker yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFOvldn_IRw
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:47 pm
by faircornell
As a quick note for those who may not have seen it, the new PLL pro lacrosse league will be holding youth clinics before games at the Ivy League Tournament in NYC.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:48 pm
by Mid-Lax
This would be a lot easier if the Ivy would let every team but one play in the tourney. Six teams. Play in game. More games. More fun. More opportunity. More of a change to get high quality wins for at large consideration. ACC does it. They don't apologize. They even have the outlier team play a game versus an out-of-conference team (Ivy in some cases). Makes me wonder which league is smarter.
Re: Ivy League 2019
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:57 pm
by joewillie78
Mid-Lax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:48 pm
This would be a lot easier if the Ivy would let every team but one play in the tourney. Six teams. Play in game. More games. More fun. More opportunity. More of a change to get high quality wins for at large consideration. ACC does it. They don't apologize. They even have the outlier team play a game versus an out-of-conference team (Ivy in some cases). Makes me wonder which league is smarter.
Maybe? I unfortunately am a fan of the regular season meaning something and when everyone gets in, then obviously it detracts from the regular season BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME BONEHEADED tiebreak scenario, then I am all for it.
Change the tiebreak system and then I LOVE the top 4 getting in.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78