LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:29 pmSure looks like some folks are freaked out that Trump doesn't have old Joe to kick around...

Freaked out doesn't start to describe it.

There is a desperation at the core of this...Trump really IS a con and a sham...and they HAVE actually been sucked in to his grift. Being exposed is painful and may very well lead to even MORE desperate measures. The threat against Joe and Kamala is super high and growing...the Secret Service and he other protective services have to be running on extreme surveillance..."fight! fight! fight!"

Imagine the fall from all those MAGA Stiffies at the RNC to limp-dork flaccid in barely a week!

Joe has likely made TrumpleThinSkin a TWO TIME LOSER in national elections.

J6, MAL documents and Georgia prosecutions all await...

..

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:01 pm Yikes, the whiners...

gotta wonder why all the sudden consternation?

Well...You were preaching how serious CV19 was, Joe has it, for the third time, has someone else write a letter, JOe tells us days before he is it to the end, then bails under in the influence of CV19 and whatever else is ailing him. Cancels the entire week at the WH....notta a thing for him to do, we've been told his paxlovid treatment worked and yet....radio silence.

And yet, when Trump tweets after midnight, you all are clamoring he's a drug addict on cocaine or addie ....pot, meet kettle , I wonder if afan will call you guys out for only picking on Trump and never Joe....and start a thread just for that reason...I doubt it.

Just listened to Biden calling into a rally in Delaware. Sounded like him, with a cold, but I am sure there is some conspiracy mileage to get out of suggesting it was a bot or an AI version of "Joe." You guys are just whiny little boys.

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:07 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 5:01 pm Yikes, the whiners...

gotta wonder why all the sudden consternation?

Well...You were preaching how serious CV19 was, Joe has it, for the third time, has someone else write a letter, JOe tells us days before he is it to the end, then bails under in the influence of CV19 and whatever else is ailing him. Cancels the entire week at the WH....notta a thing for him to do, we've been told his paxlovid treatment worked and yet....radio silence.

And yet, when Trump tweets after midnight, you all are clamoring he's a drug addict on cocaine or addie ....pot, meet kettle , I wonder if afan will call you guys out for only picking on Trump and never Joe....and start a thread just for that reason...I doubt it.

Just listened to Biden calling into a rally in Delaware. Sounded like him, with a cold, but I am sure there is some conspiracy mileage to get out of suggesting it was a bot or an AI version of "Joe." You guys are just whiny little boys.

Listened as well….glad to hear him.

My issue, was he our commander in chief, military folks, those he leads, and global leaders are all watching with a close eye. And the mere fact he only surfaces at an opportune time to align with party first at Kamala stump speech is rather unfortunate and puts on full display that everything else takes a back seat to party.

You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

The right wants a reality TV president. It's their expectation. Hawking mexican food from the Oval in front of cameras is the norm nowadays. If they don't get their fix, they go through withdrawal.

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

man, you really are bothered that the Dems have rebooted so effectively, aren't you?

How long was Trump totally out of sight, out of commission, when he was sick?...did that freak you out too?

Oh yeah, you aren't voting for Trump...

This is really stupid stuff that right wing media is going out of their minds over...and you're touting it here as if actually credible complaints.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:48 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

man, you really are bothered that the Dems have rebooted so effectively, aren't you?

How long was Trump totally out of sight, out of commission, when he was sick?...did that freak you out too?

Oh yeah, you aren't voting for Trump...

This is really stupid stuff that right wing media is going out of their minds over...and you're touting it here as if actually credible complaints.

Comprehension is really not your strong suit. My entire complaints revolve around, and have been articulated about how this has been handled; all surrounding leadership. But never let a Fox News, MAGA, partisan barb avoid you. I could give a rats ass they rebooted, have you forgotten I documented it was in play before it happened and was encouraged by a potential new candidate.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:48 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

man, you really are bothered that the Dems have rebooted so effectively, aren't you?

How long was Trump totally out of sight, out of commission, when he was sick?...did that freak you out too?

Oh yeah, you aren't voting for Trump...

This is really stupid stuff that right wing media is going out of their minds over...and you're touting it here as if actually credible complaints.

Comprehension is really not your strong suit. My entire complaints revolve around, and have been articulated about how this has been handled; all surrounding leadership. But never let a Fox News, MAGA, partisan barb avoid you. I could give a rats ass they rebooted, have you forgotten I documented it was in play before it happened and was encouraged by a potential new candidate.

yeah, it's my "comprehension" problem...could it be that you're acting really weirdly about conspiracy nonsense that is palpably stupid? You're the one touting the right wing media outrage, so what's the problem with calling it for the nonsense and non-credible sourcing?

The man has Covid. He's been feeling rotten. He's recovering well according to doctor, but obviously was sick as a dog. Meanwhile, he's dealing with actual Presidential business at the same time as making an enormously difficult personal political decision. But that's not enough "leadership"...

Did you complain about Trump's "leadership" when he was out of sight in the hospital with Covid? No, right?

The reboot is going surprisingly well don't you think? $81 million in small dollar donations, big % first time donors? 30,000 new volunteer sign-ups when usually it's 250 per day? Huge show of support from the activist base and voters, right?

Party leadership rapidly coalescing, and messaging getting very clear.

Big reversal for MAGA, sure, but what's actually got you bothered?

Speak slowly so I can "comprehend" where the problem is with "leadership, how this is being "handled".

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:16 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:48 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

man, you really are bothered that the Dems have rebooted so effectively, aren't you?

How long was Trump totally out of sight, out of commission, when he was sick?...did that freak you out too?

Oh yeah, you aren't voting for Trump...

This is really stupid stuff that right wing media is going out of their minds over...and you're touting it here as if actually credible complaints.

Comprehension is really not your strong suit. My entire complaints revolve around, and have been articulated about how this has been handled; all surrounding leadership. But never let a Fox News, MAGA, partisan barb avoid you. I could give a rats ass they rebooted, have you forgotten I documented it was in play before it happened and was encouraged by a potential new candidate.

yeah, it's my "comprehension" problem...could it be that you're acting really weirdly about conspiracy nonsense that is palpably stupid? You're the one touting the right wing media outrage, so what's the problem with calling it for the nonsense and non-credible sourcing?

The man has Covid. He's been feeling rotten. He's recovering well according to doctor, but obviously was sick as a dog. Meanwhile, he's dealing with actual Presidential business at the same time as making an enormously difficult personal political decision. But that's not enough "leadership"...

Did you complain about Trump's "leadership" when he was out of sight in the hospital with Covid? No, right?

The reboot is going surprisingly well don't you think? $81 million in small dollar donations, big % first time donors? 30,000 new volunteer sign-ups when usually it's 250 per day? Huge show of support from the activist base and voters, right?

Party leadership rapidly coalescing, and messaging getting very clear.

Big reversal for MAGA, sure, but what's actually got you bothered?

Speak slowly so I can "comprehend" where the problem is with "leadership, how this is being "handled".

it’s in my last few posts….
So he was so sick he can’t talk to the nation, but can talk to Kamala at her press conference? Got it! Party over Country = poor leadership.

And yes, I’ve thrown barbs at Trump. Explaining how I’d hoped he would STFU, be more statesmanlike, and just do his job.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:43 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:16 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:48 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

man, you really are bothered that the Dems have rebooted so effectively, aren't you?

How long was Trump totally out of sight, out of commission, when he was sick?...did that freak you out too?

Oh yeah, you aren't voting for Trump...

This is really stupid stuff that right wing media is going out of their minds over...and you're touting it here as if actually credible complaints.

Comprehension is really not your strong suit. My entire complaints revolve around, and have been articulated about how this has been handled; all surrounding leadership. But never let a Fox News, MAGA, partisan barb avoid you. I could give a rats ass they rebooted, have you forgotten I documented it was in play before it happened and was encouraged by a potential new candidate.

yeah, it's my "comprehension" problem...could it be that you're acting really weirdly about conspiracy nonsense that is palpably stupid? You're the one touting the right wing media outrage, so what's the problem with calling it for the nonsense and non-credible sourcing?

The man has Covid. He's been feeling rotten. He's recovering well according to doctor, but obviously was sick as a dog. Meanwhile, he's dealing with actual Presidential business at the same time as making an enormously difficult personal political decision. But that's not enough "leadership"...

Did you complain about Trump's "leadership" when he was out of sight in the hospital with Covid? No, right?

The reboot is going surprisingly well don't you think? $81 million in small dollar donations, big % first time donors? 30,000 new volunteer sign-ups when usually it's 250 per day? Huge show of support from the activist base and voters, right?

Party leadership rapidly coalescing, and messaging getting very clear.

Big reversal for MAGA, sure, but what's actually got you bothered?

Speak slowly so I can "comprehend" where the problem is with "leadership, how this is being "handled".

it’s in my last few posts….
So he was so sick he can’t talk to the nation, but can talk to Kamala at her press conference? Got it! Party over Country = poor leadership.

And yes, I’ve thrown barbs at Trump. Explaining how I’d hoped he would STFU, be more statesmanlike, and just do his job.

So, you were just dying to hear his voice speaking to you?
Country was suffering because he wasn’t on TV talking to the ‘public’?

A letter couldn’t hold you and ‘the country’ a few days?

Leadership?

Totally bad faith whining IMO.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

I read the Post and the Times; these are my basic news and opinion sources.

Biden has covid, and is in Rehoboth (apparently returning to DC today in advance of Bibi's visit to Congress). He has spoken with a number of people, and -- I think entirely reasonably and predictably -- has allowed the spotlight to show on his Vice President. You have no idea what else he may be doing, but from your keyboard perch you can now question his "leadership"?

One party had a convention anointing a man (in mortifying near-religious terms) who has almost single-handedly brought the institutions of free elections into discredit, who tried to remain in office after the electorate said no, who muscled state election officials to misbehave, and who tossed his VP into the ring of fire with an angry mob.

Biden withdrew from a race for the Presidency, endorsed his VP to succeed him. As Ezra Klein has said, the GOP is a "personality cult run by the dear leader’s daughter-in-law. The Democratic Party is a political party. It’s a political party that wants to win."

More from my confirmation bias:

"What President Biden did on Sunday — that is what it looks like to put country first. What the Democratic Party did over the past few weeks — that is what it looks like to put country first. The catastrophe of the debate, for Biden, was that he couldn’t draw the true contrast between him and Trump: Instead of highlighting Trump’s narcissism and illiberalism, Biden highlighted Trump’s relative energy and vigor. On Sunday, though, Biden upended that. In one decision, he drew a very different contrast between him and Trump: Trump would not peaceably step aside even after losing an election. Biden stepped aside before the election because he understood that the party and the country are bigger than he is. Putting your own ambitions second — that’s what it looks like to actually put America first."

So troll on about leadership. You really either aren't serious, or cannot be taken seriously. Biden is your President; he's working. He stepped away when folks convinced him he wasn't any longer fit to win and run a campaign. That's the story.

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 6:47 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:38 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:35 pm You don’t know any of that. You don’t know who has visited with him, what correspondence he has reviewed or sent, who he has spoken to today, etc., etc. I ask again, why wasn’t the FACT that he was in Rehoboth, somewhat unwell and convalescing enough for you and the Benny Johnson/Collin Rugg idiot crowd. Why must we have childish conspiracies?

New CBS poll has 79% of Democrats in favor of Harris’s candidacy. The President is alive and governing.

Senator from Delaware was on TV saying he has chatted with him. Maybe you should follow more people than confirmation bias feeds.

Oh….so Joe’s first chat publicly, after a monumental bomb dropping to the globe, was calling in just to chat with Kamala. I guess we didn’t really witness this display of poor leadership to the nation and globe.

As one European paper posted front page. ‘Bullet doesn’t stop Trump, Covid stops Biden’. But to you, Kamala is polling well….that’s all that matters

I read the Post and the Times; these are my basic news and opinion sources.

Biden has covid, and is in Rehoboth (apparently returning to DC today in advance of Bibi's visit to Congress). He has spoken with a number of people, and -- I think entirely reasonably and predictably -- has allowed the spotlight to show on his Vice President. You have no idea what else he may be doing, but from your keyboard perch you can now question his "leadership"?

One party had a convention anointing a man (in mortifying near-religious terms) who has almost single-handedly brought the institutions of free elections into discredit, who tried to remain in office after the electorate said no, who muscled state election officials to misbehave, and who tossed his VP into the ring of fire with an angry mob.

Biden withdrew from a race for the Presidency, endorsed his VP to succeed him. As Ezra Klein has said, the GOP is a "personality cult run by the dear leader’s daughter-in-law. The Democratic Party is a political party. It’s a political party that wants to win."

More from my confirmation bias:

"What President Biden did on Sunday — that is what it looks like to put country first. What the Democratic Party did over the past few weeks — that is what it looks like to put country first. The catastrophe of the debate, for Biden, was that he couldn’t draw the true contrast between him and Trump: Instead of highlighting Trump’s narcissism and illiberalism, Biden highlighted Trump’s relative energy and vigor. On Sunday, though, Biden upended that. In one decision, he drew a very different contrast between him and Trump: Trump would not peaceably step aside even after losing an election. Biden stepped aside before the election because he understood that the party and the country are bigger than he is. Putting your own ambitions second — that’s what it looks like to actually put America first."

So troll on about leadership. You really either aren't serious, or cannot be taken seriously. Biden is your President; he's working. He stepped away when folks convinced him he wasn't any longer fit to win and run a campaign. That's the story.

It's not resonating with you b/c you are not looking at the entirety of what has transpired over the last 2 years as the whole. Biden dropping out is indeed best for the country, no argument at all....happy he 'finally' succumbed to the pressure of his party in the 11th hour, although I believe lack of cash flow was the tipping point, one that he and his party had no control over; rather convenient timing, no?

For well over 2 years, everyone has witnessed that Joe's health was not in the interest of serving another 4 years...the opposition pointed it out at every turn and the left denied and gaslighted....yet we all knew there was something going on with Joe, and Jill enabled it. My argument, is that leadership is knowing when it is time for someone to help, long before it is emanant, in the interest of those you serve. Joe stated he was a one term president back in 2019, that is where this all began, when you couple that with his visible health decline over the past two years, long before the primary began for this election cycle, it puts on display self and party over Nation. And this is where my argument about screwing the democratic Primary voters came in......they had zero say in all this, knowing full well they were handcuffed.

Yes, I voted for Trump in 2015, and my reason were stated here on many occasion. I was interested in someone that was NOT a career politician, someone that ran businesses. I worked alongside his team at Trump Hotel, everyone on our staff was paid in full and on-time for everything we did. He tried to negotiate with his before the sale...we said no, he backed down and agreed to terms. I became sick of him as well, also read the book you suggested about his era, The Fifth RIsk, no longer intrigued. His leadership style was one I thought I could overlook, b/c I believed DC needed something like this...someone to kick over rocks and look for rattlesnakes, stir things up and get them moving. Did it word....I suppose in some instances, it otherwise turned the place upside down. That is story for another day....likely b/c an outsider learned far more about how that place actually works and the insiders don't like that.

In any event.....we can close this conversation if you'd like. I though I'd give it one last college try to explain myself.

I appreciate the response and in the same spirit (I hope!), I will say this:

I wish Joe had kept to the one-term Presidency, and that the 2022 midterms started the beauty contest we call the primary. He had done a very able job to that point and likely believed that he could continue, use the power of incumbency...and probably sipped the elixer of authority more than he would admit. As a human being, and one accustomed to the halls of power, I have to see that it has been very difficult for him to make this decision. I don't think any relative infirmity that Biden has, has impeded his ability to guide the nation. The job is legally placed in one person's hands; the reality is that it is among the most delegation heavy jobs in the world, and Biden's staff is -- imperfect, but -- largely of good to high quality.

I know many people who voted for Trump in 2015 for the same amorphous collection of reasons you did, and I still shake my head. Even then, along with the "disruptor" and "businessman in the White House narrative, he was racist, mocking and deriding immigrants rather than talking about immigration as a policy matter. Those of us who grew up in the NY Metro area knew the "successful businessman" narrative was, umm, deeply flawed. So it was Clinton (me and many millions of other citizens of this country) or a third-party/person (MDLaxfan and several million others). From that election, we know now that there is a straight line to election denialism, massive distrust in basic institutions, and the near total demolition of anything like consensus-building across parties. I am confident that history will paint Trump in the dark passages and low tones he deserves.

I agree that Joe stepped aside when the spigot of cash -- the literal circulatory and respiratory systems of elections -- threatened to dry up. My guess is that Pelosi, Jeffries and Shumer all understand that not only were Joe's chances imperiled by the debate performance and subsequent dollar drought, but that the House and Senate were placed at risk, and Democrats risked having no constitutional firewalls against an immunized, angry, and vengeful Executive if Trump won.

We have now discussed ad nauseum the bullsh*t notion of Democratic voters being hoodwinked. I disagree, and don't know why you or Old Salt could care (and Johnson and Webb have made no move to be part or the top of any ticket, so toss that hackneyed bullsh*t). Something like 14,000,000 voted for Joe and Harris in the primaries; Harris will get 80,000,000 votes in the general, and put paid to the notion that Democrats should somehow be pissed that an 81 year old man has, with a push from his colleagues and the donor base, finally stepped into the background.

Hope you have a good day.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 8:48 am For well over 2 years, everyone has witnessed that Joe's health was not in the interest of serving another 4 years...the opposition pointed it out at every turn and the left denied and gaslighted....yet we all knew there was something going on with Joe, and Jill enabled it. My argument, is that leadership is knowing when it is time for someone to help, long before it is emanant, in the interest of those you serve.

...and your attention is now on an overweight and unhealthy soon to be 83 year old President in Trump now, right?

YOU are now on the hook for enabling someone too old to serve for four years, my man.

There hasn't been one word from your party on the FACT that Trump will be the oldest serving President we've ever had when he wins.

I'll await your party's calls for resignation in his second year in office.....

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 3:00 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 8:48 am For well over 2 years, everyone has witnessed that Joe's health was not in the interest of serving another 4 years...the opposition pointed it out at every turn and the left denied and gaslighted....yet we all knew there was something going on with Joe, and Jill enabled it. My argument, is that leadership is knowing when it is time for someone to help, long before it is emanant, in the interest of those you serve.

...and your attention is now on an overweight and unhealthy soon to be 83 year old President in Trump now, right?

YOU are now on the hook for enabling someone too old to serve for four years, my man.

There hasn't been one word from your party on the FACT that Trump will be the oldest serving President we've ever had when he wins.

I'll await your party's calls for resignation in his second year in office.....

Don't be surprised if the Grimm reaper has him on his list. If he was a cat we already know he is down one life. FTR I'm not wishing him to die. I do believe that fate often steps in at the nick of time.

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 3:00 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 8:48 am For well over 2 years, everyone has witnessed that Joe's health was not in the interest of serving another 4 years...the opposition pointed it out at every turn and the left denied and gaslighted....yet we all knew there was something going on with Joe, and Jill enabled it. My argument, is that leadership is knowing when it is time for someone to help, long before it is emanant, in the interest of those you serve.

...and your attention is now on an overweight and unhealthy soon to be 83 year old President in Trump now, right?

YOU are now on the hook for enabling someone too old to serve for four years, my man.

There hasn't been one word from your party on the FACT that Trump will be the oldest serving President we've ever had when he wins.

I'll await your party's calls for resignation in his second year in office.....

Umm, too old, decompensating in real time, and mentally ill on his best days. A pathological narcissist.

Excellent and civil discussion between youth and seacoaster; refreshing!

I obviously come down close to seacoaster, though youth provides an important perspective.

I, too, think Biden should have declared victory a year ago and passed the baton then, as he'd originally planned. Said so. However, and this should not be missed, the specter of Trump only worsened in the final days post election and despite that hugely disqualifying series of events, he returned in full control of the GOP. I can forgive Joe's wanting to bury Trump by beating him again and that he believed he could do it.

Joe had successfully led the US to the best recovery from a world economy crushing pandemic that was achieved by any major nation. Better than any other by a long shot. He'd achieved massive amounts of historic legislation, with decades long implications, largely with bipartisan support, a hallmark of his approach. He'd rallied the world, and especially NATO, to support Ukraine, sending a big signal to China as well. NATO grew much stronger through his leadership, again by patiently building consensus around principles and trust rather than demagoguery. Meanwhile, China and Russia are hurting big time relative to the US and the West generally.

So, rightfully thought he had the bona fides to put Trump under water for good. And that it was essential.

But he didn't comprehend his own slippage physically due to age and how it was being perceived. He didn't comprehend how hungry Americans were, including a big portion of his own Party, for a new generation of leadership.

And he's stubborn, thinking his own resiliency could overcome...I think we see similar declines in members of our own families and their own stubborn insistence that they can handle everything just as well as they could earlier, certainly well enough that they should not give up the keys to the car, the checkbook, etc, their 'autonomy'...and in my experience, many members of their family closest to them also have difficulty seeing these declines through clear glasses...they make excuses for them, wishful thinking... as I don't think they are insincere...my wife and her bother weren't insincere when I began saying their mother had dementia, for years they were two steps behind my view...and of course she eventually died of complications of Alzheimers. I see my sister now denying that my mom no longer has the acuity and memory to make important financial decisions without a lot of support...it took quite bit for me to convince everyone that an 87 year old with macular degeneration getting shot in the eyes every 3 weeks to stem total loss should not be driving...way too hard to convince her and others, but it became painfully obvious...

It's human to have difficulty 'seeing' the changes as urgently as someone else may be able to do, and certainly difficult for the person themselves...which doesn't mean they aren't eminently better at some things than many others...until they aren't.

Joe's situation was that he could still handle big decisions, big policy calls, but he could no longer communicate effectively, certainly not in a full campaign mode. And that became glaringly apparent down the back stretch, something he himself could no longer deny.

Yes, sure, part of that recognition was that having had a commanding lead in fundraising, the money flow suddenly slowed hard...because the party supporters, small and large, had recognized the reality that he was going to lose and it would hurt the country...so, they all leaned on him, one way of messaging or another, to do the right thing...and he did. Country over personal ego.

Churchill, after leading Britain through the darkest of hours, was no longer wanted by the British voters...they wanted something new. But he's rightfully gone down as one of the most important leaders in history. I think we'll see Biden in a similarly positive way, regardless of his final rejection by his own party.

Now, as to "hoodwinked", my son said to me this AM that the Campaign folks should eventually find a way to actually take credit for managing a really tough situation. He postulates that they could see Joe's decline, whether they saw it fully clearly or not, and more importantly from a campaigning perspective could see that the public thought he was too old and wanted someone new...but they knew he was fixed in his determination. So, they arranged an early debate with two possible outcomes, either to put firmly to rest the notion that Joe wasn't up to it or to flush the problem out before it was truly too late. The worst thing they could have done was to do debates and events in the fall with Joe then being exposed as frail, too late to make a change. They were rooting for him to crush it in the debate but knew that it was possible he wouldn't. He says the organization around Harris has been spectacularly efficient in creating a rebound effect from the despair that's been felt these past 3 weeks, and was simmering for months. It's validated the voter demand for an alternative, with a shorter cycle that enables momentum event after momentum event to build up for her through Election Day. Plenty of time at this point, but no time to waste.

Interesting take.

I disagree with that take with all due respect to your son. The key flaw is that it assumes the campaign folks told Joe what to do. They didn’t. They give advice. Joe makes decisions.

Remember, Joe wanted this debate. He pushed for it. My guess is he saw he was behind in the polls and wanted to right the ship. He probably thought Trump would be ill-prepared because he had been consumed with the criminal trial. He thought, like almost all incumbents do, that his day-to-day conversancy with the issues would be enough for him to run circles around Trump. He had gotten the better of Trump in debates before. Thought he would again.

Very unfortunately for him, he was ill and came off as frail. At the start of the debate, he should’ve said, hey folks, I’m sorry about my voice tonight. I’m pretty hoarse. I’m fighting a cold. That would’ve taken some of the steam out of the “frailty” issue.

He may have been advised not to come after Trump hard in the debate, instead to seem “presidential.” That was a mistake. In the latter part of the debate when he did come after Trump hard (after everyone had already drawn their conclusions), he actually was quite strong and really took Trump to the cleaners. But by then people had either turned it off or had already decided that Joe was too frail, etc. etc.

njbill wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2024 5:35 pm I disagree with that take with all due respect to your son. The key flaw is that it assumes the campaign folks told Joe what to do. They didn’t. They give advice. Joe makes decisions.

Remember, Joe wanted this debate. He pushed for it. My guess is he saw he was behind in the polls and wanted to right the ship. He probably thought Trump would be ill-prepared because he had been consumed with the criminal trial. He thought, like almost all incumbents do, that his day-to-day conversancy with the issues would be enough for him to run circles around Trump. He had gotten the better of Trump in debates before. Thought he would again.

Very unfortunately for him, he was ill and came off as frail. At the start of the debate, he should’ve said, hey folks, I’m sorry about my voice tonight. I’m pretty hoarse. I’m fighting a cold. That would’ve taken some of the steam out of the “frailty” issue.

He may have been advised not to come after Trump hard in the debate, instead to seem “presidential.” That was a mistake. In the latter part of the debate when he did come after Trump hard (after everyone had already drawn their conclusions), he actually was quite strong and really took Trump to the cleaners. But by then people had either turned it off or had already decided that Joe was too frail, etc. etc.

ohh, complete speculation, but I think you're merely speculating as well.

It's entirely possible that you're right that Joe wanted the chance to prove himself, but that doesn't mean the campaign folks weren't 'advising' that he do it, with their own 'what if'' scenarios fully considered as my son suggests. That's not "told Joe what to do"; it's just "advice", a nudge.

I think it's entirely possible that Joe has indeed slipped a lot in the past 12 months and been in denial, as he hasn't lost his marbles and is still getting the core job done. But his ability to communicate well has slipped a lot and none of the interviews since the debate suggested otherwise, though not as badly 'deer in the headlights' as he was that night.

So, this may well have been pushed to achieve either 1) Joe allay's all of the public's fears or 2) he didn't and it then becomes obvious that they need a reboot. I sure wish he'd crushed it, but he bombed. And that gives the Dems a chance to reboot effectively.

If that's indeed what went down, it is indeed handling a very tough situation well under very unusual circumstances.

I, too, felt Joe got better second half, but I never thought he 'took Trump to the cleaners"...it was more that I was actually listening to Trump and he's such a flaming a-hole and idiot, he was messing himself up. Joe did better by comparison at that point and almost found his footing...but he closed very, very weakly. Such a massive missed opportunity.